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| stevemar | o/ | 17:59 |
|---|---|---|
| henrynash | hi | 17:59 |
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| bknudson | hi | 17:59 |
| stevemar | good evening henry | 18:00 |
| topol | Hi | 18:00 |
| dwaite | o/ | 18:00 |
| ayoung | Keystone! | 18:00 |
| stevemar | keystone time | 18:00 |
| rohitk | hi every1 | 18:00 |
| gyee | \o | 18:00 |
| ayoung | dolphm, you are running this, right? | 18:00 |
| rkanade | hi everybody | 18:00 |
| dolphm | o/ | 18:00 |
| dolphm | ayoung: yes | 18:00 |
| dolphm | #startmeeting keystone | 18:00 |
| openstack | Meeting started Tue Apr 23 18:00:53 2013 UTC. The chair is dolphm. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 18:00 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 18:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: keystone)" | 18:00 | |
| dolphm | didn't realize it was already time | 18:00 |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'keystone' | 18:00 |
| ayoung | #link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings/KeystoneMeeting#Agenda_for_next_meeting | 18:01 |
| dolphm | #topic High priority bugs or immediate issues? | 18:01 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "High priority bugs or immediate issues? (Meeting topic: keystone)" | 18:01 | |
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| ayoung | DB access can't be atomic for LDAP | 18:01 |
| dolphm | bug 1130676 is on the agenda | 18:01 |
| uvirtbot | Launchpad bug 1130676 in keystone "DB accesses during user creation should be atomic" [Medium,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1130676 | 18:01 |
| bknudson | would make it easier to review if that was split up into smaller changes. | 18:01 |
| ayoung | I think we should NACK it. | 18:02 |
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| ayoung | It sets expectations wrong | 18:02 |
| rohitk | so we would think Dolph's way to have a TransactableDriverMixin is one way | 18:02 |
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| ayoung | rohitk, nope | 18:02 |
| rohitk | but the approach which is in the review could be changed | 18:03 |
| ayoung | rethink the approach | 18:03 |
| rohitk | ? | 18:03 |
| ayoung | rohitk, take it this way | 18:03 |
| ayoung | assume you do not have a transactional back end | 18:03 |
| dolphm | i agree with ayoung's review, but i think we ultimately need to figure out an approach to make potentially transactable operations transactable... so i'd rather it be a -1 on the current pass rather than a -2 for the whole concept | 18:03 |
| ayoung | how do you write it to minimize risk? | 18:03 |
| ayoung | Band-aid on a sucking chest wound. | 18:03 |
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| ayoung | We will never have transactions from the token backend, which is actually the more serious issue | 18:04 |
| rkanade | We dont touch the other backends at all, and just make those changes for the SQL backend | 18:04 |
| bknudson | I prefer only on sql backend, since that's the only one that's got acid. | 18:04 |
| dolphm | rkanade: you ARE touching the other drivers | 18:04 |
| dolphm | https://review.openstack.org/#/c/25517/4/keystone/identity/backends/ldap/core.py | 18:04 |
| ayoung | rkanade, and we don't treat the SQL backend as a "higher class citizen" than the other backends | 18:04 |
| topol | that gets us into trouble (see next bug) | 18:05 |
| rohitk | Adding another layer between identity api and controller as suggested by Tushar Patil in the review, lots of rework there though | 18:05 |
| bknudson | LDAP does have transactions... http://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc5805 | 18:05 |
| bknudson | some servers might support it | 18:05 |
| dolphm | rohitk: that's probably the right approach though, and we can do it one small refactor as a time | 18:05 |
| Ryan_Lane | don't assume servers have transactions | 18:06 |
| rkanade | Yes, currently we are, for the next patch we dont touch any other backend other than SQL, and we add the TransactableSQLDriverMixin to the SQL Base class? | 18:06 |
| Ryan_Lane | or you'll make the implementation unusable for lots of people | 18:06 |
| rohitk | dolphm: agreed it seems like a design enhancement than a quick fix | 18:07 |
| dolphm | rkanade: can you post that and we'll discuss then? no point in reviewing the current patch if it's already WIP | 18:07 |
| dolphm | rohitk: this could be moved from a bug to a blueprint as well | 18:08 |
| rkanade | dolphm: Yes, i can do that | 18:08 |
| ayoung | bknudson, yeah...*might* | 18:08 |
| rohitk | dolphm: sure, I think if we get the blueprint right we can get the code into havana early | 18:09 |
| dolphm | cool, we also have bug 1168724 on the agenda | 18:09 |
| uvirtbot | Launchpad bug 1168724 in devstack "Horizon log-in failure in grizzly with LDAP backend" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1168724 | 18:09 |
| dolphm | and bug 1168726 | 18:09 |
| uvirtbot | Launchpad bug 1168726 in keystone "default_domain_id breaks the ability to map keystone to ldap" [Undecided,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1168726 | 18:09 |
| dolphm | i've marked both as grizzly-backport-potential, but that's up to how complicated the fix is | 18:09 |
| ayoung | so what is happening? | 18:09 |
| spzala | dolphm: both the bugs opened for the same issue for possible fix against devstack and keystone | 18:09 |
| dolphm | i understand these were known issues going into the grizzly release | 18:09 |
| ayoung | domains are an attribute on the LDAP objects, and if one is not specified, it should be filled in with the DEFAULT value | 18:09 |
| topol | devstack one is easy. will submit patch today for review | 18:10 |
| ayoung | is it that we need an actual Domain object? | 18:10 |
| spzala | ayoung: no | 18:10 |
| dolphm | #action dolphm to doc bug 1168724 and bug 1168726 on release notes | 18:10 |
| spzala | I have made some code change | 18:10 |
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| uvirtbot | Launchpad bug 1168724 in devstack "Horizon log-in failure in grizzly with LDAP backend" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1168724 | 18:10 |
| uvirtbot | Launchpad bug 1168726 in keystone "default_domain_id breaks the ability to map keystone to ldap" [Undecided,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1168726 | 18:10 |
| Ryan_Lane | domains are attributes on which objects? | 18:10 |
| spzala | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/27364/1 | 18:10 |
| ayoung | Ryan_Lane, yeah...it seems the LDAP world is 50/50 split on that | 18:10 |
| Ryan_Lane | ayoung: 50/50 split on what? | 18:11 |
| spzala | ayoung: that's the patch i created as fix | 18:11 |
| ayoung | half want it as an attribute, half want it as a subtree | 18:11 |
| Ryan_Lane | which attribute would be used? | 18:11 |
| ayoung | I want to yank domains out of LDAP altogether...make it optional | 18:11 |
| henrynash | spzala: basically our controllers assume all backends are "domain aware"….and the LDAP one is only half there | 18:11 |
| ayoung | Ryan_Lane, brace yourself | 18:11 |
| Ryan_Lane | and would it be mutli-valued? | 18:11 |
| Ryan_Lane | unless you have some other plan for global grouos, please don't yank domains from ldap | 18:11 |
| ayoung | BBusinessCategory | 18:12 |
| spzala | henrynash: thanks.. agree | 18:12 |
| Ryan_Lane | hahahaha | 18:12 |
| Ryan_Lane | you're kidding me, right? | 18:12 |
| Ryan_Lane | is that even multi-valued? | 18:12 |
| ayoung | Why would it need to be multi-valued? | 18:12 |
| Ryan_Lane | a project can only exist in a single domain? | 18:12 |
| ayoung | domain is a single value entity only | 18:12 |
| ayoung | Ryan_Lane, correct | 18:12 |
| Ryan_Lane | what if you want two projects with the same name? | 18:12 |
| ayoung | however | 18:12 |
| bknudson | I assume any attribute name chosen could be overridden with a config option | 18:12 |
| Ryan_Lane | this is a bad idea | 18:12 |
| henrynash | I suggest we divide this into two fixes | 18:13 |
| ayoung | Ryan_Lane, project name does not need to be unique across domains | 18:13 |
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| spzala | ayoung: agree.. that's what I believe. | 18:13 |
| henrynash | a) Just fake up the default domain so v2 access works with LDAP | 18:13 |
| ayoung | Ryan_Lane, you missed me ranting about this at the end of the last release and during the dev conf | 18:13 |
| henrynash | b) Then get our correct domain implementation fired up and going | 18:13 |
| Ryan_Lane | ayoung: how do you have the same project name in two domains if there is a single project ou? | 18:13 |
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| dolphm | henrynash: you can point v2 to *any* domain | 18:14 |
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| Ryan_Lane | there's really only a single sane way to do this IMO | 18:14 |
| ayoung | Ryan_Lane, well, I am a propoentn of doing domains by subtree, but that is neither here nor there | 18:14 |
| ayoung | We need to support both, I think | 18:14 |
| Ryan_Lane | support both what? | 18:14 |
| ayoung | and that didn't happen in Grizzly | 18:14 |
| ayoung | both subtree and attribute | 18:15 |
| gyee | if you want it to be distinguished, use distinguished names :) | 18:15 |
| Ryan_Lane | attribute isn't going to work | 18:15 |
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| Ryan_Lane | unless you want the project names to be globally unique | 18:15 |
| ayoung | Ryan_Lane, not for you, but for others, it is | 18:15 |
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| ayoung | hence we need both | 18:15 |
| Ryan_Lane | and that can be a security concern | 18:15 |
| spzala | henrynash: thanks. | 18:15 |
| henrynash | dolphm: is that true? How do you do the "pointing"? | 18:15 |
| ayoung | Ryan_Lane, agreed, | 18:15 |
| Ryan_Lane | because then you can figure out the project names already in use in other domains | 18:15 |
| ayoung | Ryan_Lane, yep | 18:16 |
| dolphm | henrynash: keystone.conf default_domain_id | 18:16 |
| dolphm | henrynash: it's 'default' by default | 18:16 |
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| dolphm | henrynash: db_sync will even use that value when creating the initial domain | 18:16 |
| Ryan_Lane | supporting two ways of doing this and having one that's basically broken and insecure is probably a bad idea | 18:16 |
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| topol | Joe Savak wanted it if I recall | 18:17 |
| henrynash | dolphm:: ahh, ok, see what you mean…that kind of pointing…. | 18:17 |
| dolphm | henrynash: there's absolutely nothing special about that domain other than keystone.conf points to it for use by v2 | 18:17 |
| ayoung | topol, who was it that said they wanted the Attribute way to do domains during the LDAP discussion? | 18:17 |
| topol | I think it was Joe | 18:17 |
| topol | Savak | 18:17 |
| ayoung | #link https://etherpad.openstack.org/havana-ldap-integration | 18:17 |
| bknudson | so they wanted some attribute on all projects/users in a domain? like businessCategory=domain1 | 18:17 |
| dolphm | unfortunately he's not on to defend himself | 18:17 |
| topol | It mapped to how they were doing domains | 18:18 |
| ayoung | topol, I suspect that they will trip up on what Ryan_Lane just said about unique names | 18:18 |
| dolphm | bknudson: is that a domain id or name or domain id == domain name in ldap anyway? | 18:18 |
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| henrynash | dolphm: sure…I guess it's just the the initial problem is that no default domain get's created, so it would at least let us get off to there races | 18:18 |
| gyee | dolphm, we do this traffic court style, if he's not here, we blame it on him :) | 18:18 |
| ayoung | Heh | 18:18 |
| dolphm | gyee: yay community | 18:18 |
| ayoung | gyee, or in this case, we decide to break the approach he is depending on | 18:18 |
| ayoung | So I want domains to be subtrees. And I actually don't want domains at all. I want this: | 18:19 |
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| Ryan_Lane | no matter how you guys go about this, someone's approach is getting broken | 18:19 |
| ayoung | #link https://blueprints.launchpad.net/keystone/+spec/multiple-datastores | 18:19 |
| ayoung | That is in support of the one backend per domain blueprint | 18:19 |
| Ryan_Lane | ayoung: domains actually make sense to be stored in ldap | 18:19 |
| topol | so what frustrating is domains don't seem to naturally fit in ldap yet folks want it there | 18:20 |
| bknudson | dolphm: it could be a name or an id... if the id is a DN then you can set that as the base of the search and if the value is an ID or name you have to do a search to resolve it. | 18:20 |
| Ryan_Lane | I don't see why domains don't fit | 18:20 |
| Ryan_Lane | it fits perfectly well if you make it a hierarchy, which is naturally is | 18:20 |
| dolphm | Ryan_Lane: that's why i'd like to see ldap support relegated to specialized authn/z plugins :) | 18:20 |
| gyee | and lookups | 18:20 |
| Ryan_Lane | it already is a plugin ;) | 18:21 |
| bknudson | maybe separate plugins? | 18:21 |
| dolphm | supporting ldap as a first-class identity driver seems like overkill for almost everyone | 18:21 |
| Ryan_Lane | 40% of users use ldap | 18:21 |
| topol | well we couldnt get consensus on that. and most read only ldaps have just users and groups of users. so adding domains is hacky | 18:21 |
| Ryan_Lane | that responded to the survey | 18:21 |
| ayoung | You can never have too much overkill. There is no overkill, there is only open fire and reload | 18:21 |
| bknudson | but who wants to use the SQL identity driver? it's not perfect either | 18:21 |
| gyee | dolphm, yeah, supporting write LDAP is risk than reward | 18:21 |
| dolphm | Ryan_Lane: what percent of that wants keystone to attempt full crud over ldap data? | 18:21 |
| topol | read only ldap/ad integration is huge | 18:21 |
| topol | I hate write ldap | 18:22 |
| Ryan_Lane | dolphm: it depends on the level of CRUD | 18:22 |
| ayoung | So...bringing this back on topic | 18:22 |
| ayoung | do we have a quick fix rady for the actual bug? | 18:22 |
| * gyee is standing right behind topod on the hate write LDAP line | 18:22 | |
| ayoung | If not, please ping me when it is ready | 18:22 |
| gyee | topol | 18:22 |
| bknudson | we had complaints here about the SQL identity driver because it doesn't lock out users after x attempts, and doesn't have password requirements (length, etc) | 18:22 |
| Ryan_Lane | LDAP should only be used for things that can be reused | 18:22 |
| dolphm | ayoung: i think this is on topic, supporting broadly different approaches to ldap would be best handled by smaller auth plugins | 18:22 |
| spzala | ayoung: https://review.openstack.org/#/c/27364/1 is something I did for a quick fix | 18:22 |
| topol | https://review.openstack.org/#/c/27369/ | 18:22 |
| topol | is for the devstack fix | 18:22 |
| Ryan_Lane | yes, but we should have a reference driver | 18:23 |
| ayoung | dolphm, true,. although talking through the summit items is at the end of the agenda | 18:23 |
| Ryan_Lane | and it should be a sane one | 18:23 |
| ayoung | spzala, we looked at doing something in the keystone manage code for LDAP in the past... | 18:24 |
| ayoung | would be good it integrate it in there | 18:24 |
| dolphm | ayoung: +1 | 18:24 |
| Ryan_Lane | also, btw, it's probably perfectly sane to just not implement any of the write functions | 18:24 |
| henrynash | I think this is indeed related to authn/z….it's because we lump them together and just talk about "the backend" that we get ourselves into problems….we really should have different plugins (as we discused_ fro authz/n | 18:24 |
| Ryan_Lane | I doubt people are using it | 18:24 |
| topol | my dream is that we find a reference way to support domains in ldap, sahdev codes it up and we all move on with our lives to fun keystone work | 18:24 |
| spzala | ayoung: so make changes via keystone-manage script? | 18:24 |
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| Ryan_Lane | there's a really simple way to do domains in ldap | 18:25 |
| ayoung | spzala, we did that for the membership issue, IIRC | 18:25 |
| topol | Ryan_Lane, you had me at hello | 18:25 |
| ayoung | Ryan_Lane, one subtree per domain? | 18:25 |
| Ryan_Lane | ou=domains | 18:25 |
| Ryan_Lane | cn=domainA | 18:25 |
| Ryan_Lane | cn=projectA,cn=domainA | 18:25 |
| spzala | ayoung: if you can please provide me more info or pointer to the work.. that will be very helpful as I am not aware of the past work. | 18:26 |
| Ryan_Lane | it's a natural tree hierarchy | 18:26 |
| ayoung | spzala, will do | 18:26 |
| spzala | ayoung: thanks! | 18:26 |
| Ryan_Lane | it fits the design of domains and keeps the exact same design we have for projects | 18:26 |
| bknudson | Ryan_Lane: are users under projects or under domains? | 18:26 |
| Ryan_Lane | both | 18:26 |
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| Ryan_Lane | under domains for global members | 18:26 |
| Ryan_Lane | under projects for project members | 18:26 |
| Ryan_Lane | under roles for role members | 18:26 |
| Ryan_Lane | hell, you can have global roles by sticking organizationalRole entries under the domain as well | 18:27 |
| topol | Ryan_Lane, can you work up a simple example for Sahdev to use as a design doc? | 18:27 |
| bknudson | Does anybody have their corporate LDAP directory set up like that? | 18:27 |
| Ryan_Lane | of course not | 18:28 |
| topol | would love to have this documented in a blueprint, then coded, then *DONE* | 18:28 |
| Ryan_Lane | but they don't have it set up like our previous designs either | 18:28 |
| Ryan_Lane | people make new OUs and such for this | 18:28 |
| ayoung | The number one feature for Havan is the automatic provisioning of Users from a centralized authentication store | 18:29 |
| dolphm | via auth plugins | 18:29 |
| topol | most LDAPs they wont let you change anything. so should I worry about Ryan_lanes proposed changes??? | 18:29 |
| Ryan_Lane | you mean adding/deleting users and such? | 18:29 |
| spzala | Ryan_Lane: can you also please take a look at this ..would be great to have your feedback #link https://etherpad.openstack.org/keystone-ldap-domain-support | 18:29 |
| dolphm | against a (most likely) non-ldap identity backend | 18:29 |
| Ryan_Lane | topol: keystone wouldn't be changing anything | 18:29 |
| dolphm | Ryan_Lane: just adding | 18:29 |
| dolphm | Ryan_Lane: well, maybe i take that back | 18:30 |
| dolphm | maybe phase 2 | 18:30 |
| Ryan_Lane | dolphm: so, this is doable… but keystone's way of handling this is… ugh | 18:30 |
| dolphm | Ryan_Lane: how so? | 18:30 |
| topol | well keystone will work with a read only ldap as is and then you can do whatever you want that makes most sense for read-write ldap (the 2% use case) | 18:30 |
| Ryan_Lane | currently it writes entries with their UUID as the naming attribute | 18:30 |
| spzala | Ryan_Lane: there is a design doc link, something we talked couple weeks back in IRC meeting. | 18:30 |
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| topol | yes, that sucks | 18:31 |
| bknudson | do we need uuids to integrate with other backends? | 18:31 |
| topol | so unreadable. | 18:31 |
| dolphm | topol: if the number is really 2% then it shouldn't be supported by keystone out of the box.. | 18:31 |
| Ryan_Lane | the UUIDs are needed to allow easy renames | 18:31 |
| Ryan_Lane | having the uuids isn't a problem | 18:31 |
| topol | dolphm, Im having a hard time arguing with you on this | 18:31 |
| dolphm | *shrug* i'm not trying very hard | 18:32 |
| topol | i figure we are close enough to a ref implementation to be done and move on | 18:32 |
| Ryan_Lane | the entry has two unique fields anyway, the uuid and the user/project/domain/etc field | 18:32 |
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| topol | dolphm, cause I agree with you | 18:32 |
| Ryan_Lane | so, you use the name for the naming attribute and add the uuid as a second value of the multi-value attribute | 18:32 |
| ayoung | OK. We've spent half the time allotted on this. Lets get an #action work up the Blueprint for this. | 18:33 |
| Ryan_Lane | I'll write up a DIT example for domains | 18:33 |
| ayoung | spzala, you want to take point, and include Ryan_Lane 's document as a reference? | 18:33 |
| Ryan_Lane | I can also write up an example of how to properly handle adding entries without using uuid as naming attribute | 18:33 |
| henrynash | we really must focus on the common use cases…and R/W LDAP is unlikely to be it | 18:33 |
| spzala | ayoung, yes | 18:33 |
| Ryan_Lane | I'd say prioritize getting read working well, then worry about R/W after | 18:33 |
| topol | Ryan_lane and Sahdev should collaborate and come to joint consensus | 18:34 |
| henrynash | how about we solve the common case when we have an enterprise ldap with users for authn…and this generates temp user records in our SQL authz backend | 18:34 |
| ayoung | henrynash, that is what I said above | 18:34 |
| ayoung | autoprovisiniong | 18:34 |
| henrynash | I'm with you | 18:34 |
| ayoung | the Kent folks aren't here | 18:34 |
| Ryan_Lane | so… that's a cache... | 18:34 |
| topol | now henrynash is mentioning somehting we really need. and repeating ayoung | 18:34 |
| ayoung | but they have an impl | 18:34 |
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| Ryan_Lane | and it's fine, assuming you're going to invalidate the cache properly | 18:35 |
| ayoung | they are supposed to be fragmenting out from their Federation code base | 18:35 |
| topol | henrynash was gonna "review" their code and harvest | 18:35 |
| Ryan_Lane | (in fact, it's a good idea, but cache invalidation is hard and this is prone to a security vulnerability) | 18:35 |
| ayoung | Ryan_Lane, yep, and it will not solve 100% of the things for 100% of the people, but it is the single most requested feature | 18:35 |
| topol | ayoung +1000 | 18:35 |
| ayoung | Ryan_Lane, you always authenticate against the central IDP | 18:35 |
| henrynash | ayoung: we should create the structure and architecture that allows us to let them contribute components we need for this RO authn LDAP and RQ SQL authz | 18:36 |
| henrynash | (RW SQL authz) | 18:36 |
| ayoung | henrynash, agreed | 18:36 |
| topol | hnerynash, agreed | 18:36 |
| ayoung | henrynash, I think we need to look at how we are pipelining the auth methods in the V3 api, first | 18:36 |
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| henrynash | ayoung: +1 | 18:37 |
| ayoung | right now, only methods that are explicitly named in the token request get processed | 18:37 |
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| dwaite | +1 | 18:37 |
| dwaite | (felt the need to agree as well) | 18:37 |
| ayoung | but autoprovision is something that always needs to be executed | 18:37 |
| topol | I was thinking Sahdev could work with Ryan Lane just to finish the read write case cause I think that is easier than pulling it out | 18:37 |
| dolphm | ayoung: they can lead to a custom plugin though | 18:37 |
| ayoung | dolphm, yep, just we don't have the appropriate integration point for that yet | 18:37 |
| gyee | ayoung, not sure if I understand | 18:38 |
| dolphm | ayoung: what are we lacking..? | 18:38 |
| ayoung | dolphm, we need it to happen when we execute the auth plugins | 18:38 |
| dolphm | ayoung: replace the Password plugin with your own implementation, have that impl talk to ldap | 18:38 |
| gyee | ^^^ what he said | 18:38 |
| uvirtbot | gyee: Error: "^^" is not a valid command. | 18:38 |
| ayoung | dolphm, yes, but unless I put that in the token request, it will not get called | 18:38 |
| dolphm | uvirtbot: stop it | 18:38 |
| uvirtbot | dolphm: Error: "stop" is not a valid command. | 18:38 |
| ayoung | 1 sec I'll link | 18:38 |
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| Ryan_Lane | dolphm: I heavily reuse the project structure | 18:39 |
| Ryan_Lane | in ldap | 18:39 |
| topol | cant we call the identity driver from the auth plugin to provision the user when authenticated | 18:39 |
| Ryan_Lane | I'd really prefer not to have to implement that in LDAP and in the database | 18:39 |
| Ryan_Lane | I don't use keystone for anything other than getting tokens | 18:39 |
| Ryan_Lane | hell, i don't even want to send a password to keystone | 18:39 |
| gyee | topol, yes we can | 18:39 |
| dolphm | topol: yes | 18:39 |
| ayoung | #link https://github.com/openstack/keystone/blob/master/keystone/auth/controllers.py#L349 | 18:40 |
| ayoung | So only auth methods that are explicitly listed get executed | 18:40 |
| gyee | Ryan_Lane, you don't trust Keystone? | 18:40 |
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| ayoung | gyee, is there any reason that the list of methods *has* to come out of the token request? | 18:40 |
| dolphm | Ryan_Lane: 'getting tokens' is sort of a complicated task though... and certainly keystone's first intended use | 18:41 |
| ayoung | What if we just always executed each one in the pipeline? | 18:41 |
| gyee | ayoung, yes, that's how we know what payload it is | 18:41 |
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| dolphm | ayoung: what's your goal, exactly? | 18:41 |
| Ryan_Lane | dolphm: yes, but I expose multi-tenancy throughout my entire architecture, and LDAP is the only sane way of doing that | 18:41 |
| ayoung | dolphm, in this case, we need to autoprovision after the authenticate call completes successfully, but before we do any identity backend work | 18:41 |
| Ryan_Lane | I have to have that structure in LDAP. if it's not there, then I need to duplicate it there | 18:42 |
| Ryan_Lane | which means I'd need to make keystone calls and ldap calls | 18:42 |
| dolphm | we've got like 18 minutes left, so we should move on and carry this conversation to mailing list + blueprints where relevant | 18:42 |
| Ryan_Lane | sure | 18:42 |
| dolphm | #topic How to kick off v3.1 identity api spec | 18:42 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "How to kick off v3.1 identity api spec (Meeting topic: keystone)" | 18:42 | |
| ayoung | so ideally autoprovision would be executed right after authenticate when we determined the user was in the cetnral store but not in the local one | 18:42 |
| dolphm | henrynash added this to the agenda, but i think the answer is fairly simple... | 18:42 |
| topol | Ryan_Lane, you will still write something up for the read write case, correct? | 18:42 |
| henrynash | dolphm: yep - you did what I was thinking | 18:43 |
| dolphm | step 1) Add v3.1 change log, see.... | 18:43 |
| dolphm | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/26676/ | 18:43 |
| henrynash | dolphm: and I approved it already! | 18:43 |
| Ryan_Lane | I'll write something up for domains and for writing entries properly | 18:43 |
| dolphm | start documenting backwards compatible addition into that change log | 18:43 |
| dolphm | and document v3.1 specific changes in discrete paragraphs / sections with a v3.1 notice (e.g., New in version 3.1) | 18:43 |
| gyee | henrynash, you might approving this too? https://review.openstack.org/#/c/26665/ | 18:43 |
| dolphm | so, that's that | 18:43 |
| henrynash | dolphm: just wanted to get an agreed approach before we got started | 18:43 |
| dolphm | #topic Havana API-level feature freeze | 18:44 |
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| *** openstack changes topic to "Havana API-level feature freeze (Meeting topic: keystone)" | 18:44 | |
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| dolphm | (related to v3.1) | 18:44 |
| ayoung | dolphm, I assume you want Feature freeze to be yesterday? | 18:44 |
| dolphm | in every release, we've regretted not doing a feature freeze a milestone ahead of all the other projects | 18:44 |
| dolphm | as a first swing at that, i'd like to have an API-level feature freeze at the end of Havana-m2 | 18:44 |
| bknudson | are we going to have a branch for Ixx after Havana-m2? | 18:45 |
| topol | +1 on earlier feature freeze than the other folks | 18:45 |
| dolphm | which means v3.1 freezes at the end of Havana-m2 | 18:45 |
| ayoung | dolphm, not sure I agree | 18:45 |
| ayoung | I think that features other proejcts depend on, yes | 18:45 |
| dolphm | whatever api features don't land wait until havana+1 and fall under the umbrella of v3.2 | 18:45 |
| ayoung | but there are other features that are not going to get consumed until they get into Keystone | 18:45 |
| dolphm | ayoung: those features can wait while we focus on stability and client support | 18:46 |
| ayoung | soe we write them for Havana, but people won't write to them until I time frame | 18:46 |
| topol | ayoung, not sure I follow | 18:46 |
| ayoung | topol, Trusts | 18:46 |
| ayoung | no one is using trusts yet | 18:46 |
| ayoung | but thay can't until we write them | 18:46 |
| ayoung | so if we punted on them for Havana, not one would be able to even start writing to them | 18:46 |
| dolphm | this will give us time to implement and consume trusts within a single release cycle, for example | 18:46 |
| ayoung | same think with PKI tokens | 18:46 |
| ayoung | we put them in, buthad them disabled | 18:46 |
| ayoung | I think what you really mean dolph ios that we should focus on "do it in a plugin in an external project first" approach, which I fully support | 18:47 |
| topol | if we dont get them avail early for peer review we are morte surprising them with stuff than providing them with stuff | 18:47 |
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| ayoung | I also think you mean "featuer freeze is a hard freeze, not a soft freeze" and I support that too | 18:47 |
| dolphm | the m2/m3 distinction is conditional on a three milestone cycle as we did in grizzly, i haven't looked at the draft release schedule to see if that's changing yet, but either way the goal is a milestone early | 18:48 |
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| dolphm | ayoung: i mean both | 18:48 |
| topol | the early feature freeze gives us a chance to be agile and adjust when we slightly miss stakeholder needs | 18:48 |
| ayoung | dolphm, OK, lets tkae it for a goal. It is an internal constraint, and not a bad one. | 18:49 |
| ayoung | take it | 18:49 |
| dolphm | #topic Priorities following summit Summit etherpads | 18:49 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Priorities following summit Summit etherpads (Meeting topic: keystone)" | 18:49 | |
| dolphm | so, i'm working through our etherpads and working on some blueprints based on those discussions/conclusions | 18:50 |
| ayoung | dolphm, I've been doing the same | 18:50 |
| dolphm | if anyone wants to do that for something you want to work on, go for it, just link to the new bp in the etherpad so i don't create a dupe :) | 18:50 |
| gyee | dolphm, I intend to get endpoint-filtering in by m2 | 18:50 |
| dolphm | gyee: cool | 18:51 |
| gyee | not sure about domain quota though, that's above my pay grade | 18:51 |
| topol | Im stating with Apache-Keystone in devstack. will write the bp today | 18:51 |
| ayoung | topol, +5 | 18:51 |
| chmouel | topol: pretty cool | 18:51 |
| dolphm | topol: thanks | 18:51 |
| ayoung | dolphm, might I suggest that all blueprints must have, at a minimum, an implementor assigned in order to not be ignored or disapproved? | 18:51 |
| henrynash | I'm working on inherited domain roles (or whatever solution we need for that problem) and some of the keystone performance issues | 18:52 |
| ayoung | Someone has to commit to the task or it is just spinning | 18:52 |
| dolphm | topol: i assume devstack has it's own bp's | 18:52 |
| dolphm | topol: https://blueprints.launchpad.net/devstack/ | 18:52 |
| topol | it does but I will notify you | 18:52 |
| ayoung | #link https://blueprints.launchpad.net/devstack | 18:52 |
| topol | yes, thank you for thinking of me | 18:52 |
| henrynash | …and sign me up to work with however on splitting out authz/n and domain backends with autoproviioings | 18:52 |
| dolphm | henrynash: will do | 18:52 |
| dolphm | henrynash: related https://blueprints.launchpad.net/keystone/+spec/pluggable-remote-user | 18:53 |
| morganfainberg | henrynash: if you need any help with that let me know. I'm more than happy to assist with that stuff. | 18:53 |
| topol | I agree with ayoung, for each task who is the one person losing sleep on whether it gets done or not | 18:53 |
| henrynash | dolphm: indeed | 18:53 |
| ayoung | topol hmmm, I tagtged this as implemented, and it blamed me for it. Can you tajke credit for it somehow ? https://blueprints.launchpad.net/devstack/+spec/ldap | 18:53 |
| dolphm | CERN basically wants REMOTE_USER pluggability for x509 grid certs + auto provisioning | 18:53 |
| dwaite | topol: can we nominate people to be the ones to lose sleep for a particular task? | 18:53 |
| ayoung | dwaite, only if they have expressed interest | 18:54 |
| dwaite | ayoung: aww, guess thats fair | 18:54 |
| ayoung | dwaite, it you write a blueprint, park on it until you have someone to implement it for you | 18:54 |
| topol | dwaite, only if they consent | 18:54 |
| Ryan_Lane | I'd also like REMOTE_USER + ldap for project/role/user info | 18:54 |
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| Ryan_Lane | I basically want LDAP for everything except authentication | 18:54 |
| ayoung | Ryan_Lane, I think that works now | 18:54 |
| ayoung | REMOTE_USER implies HTTPD from Apache | 18:55 |
| ayoung | or comparable web server | 18:55 |
| * Ryan_Lane nods | 18:55 | |
| ayoung | I want S4U2Proxy and Kerberos, + LDAP | 18:55 |
| henrynash | Ryan_Lane:….that seems weird, I think we want to optimise for the case of LDAP for authentication ONLY! | 18:55 |
| dolphm | (5 minutes) | 18:55 |
| topol | Ryan_Lane is hurting my head. Most folsk want ldap for only authentication | 18:55 |
| dolphm | #topic open discussion | 18:55 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "open discussion (Meeting topic: keystone)" | 18:55 | |
| Ryan_Lane | henrynash: ldap authentication sucks | 18:55 |
| dwaite | REMOTE_USER is a CGI thing, see rfc3875 | 18:55 |
| dolphm | since we're back to ldap :) | 18:55 |
| Ryan_Lane | it's password authentication | 18:55 |
| Ryan_Lane | or kerberos via passthrough | 18:56 |
| ayoung | Ryan_Lane, what do you want instead? X509? | 18:56 |
| topol | termies nosetest option is breaking sahdev as well as me. how do we fix that | 18:56 |
| spzala | I ran into problem running run_tests.sh with the latest code http://fpaste.org/tLAR/ | 18:56 |
| Ryan_Lane | ayoung: I'd really like oauth | 18:56 |
| dwaite | ayoung: what do you want S4U for? | 18:56 |
| ayoung | Ryan_Lane, ah, yeah, Kerberos | 18:56 |
| morganfainberg | Ryan_Lane: but LDAP authentication is how enterprises (effectively) use AD for authn but still want authz in keystone. | 18:56 |
| henrynash | not another nose test break….damn, I approved that one too! | 18:56 |
| Ryan_Lane | morganfainberg: you assume that's the case :) | 18:56 |
| dolphm | Ryan_Lane: i added your name to that bp | 18:56 |
| ayoung | dwaite, I want to auth via Kerberos and then have the operations against he LDAP backend performed via the users context | 18:56 |
| ayoung | not an "admin" | 18:56 |
| topol | sign stevemar up for OAuth, dolphm, you have my expressed written consent to do that | 18:56 |
| Ryan_Lane | people who actually know LDAP really well don't use it that way | 18:56 |
| dolphm | topol: i put termie on the bp, stevemar can finish it | 18:57 |
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| ayoung | AD is kerberos for services that support it | 18:57 |
| morganfainberg | Ryan_Lane: i wish i could say that from experience it is done differently. | 18:57 |
| dwaite | ayoung: agh, yep, that would do it. But is AD still the only KDC supporting S4U? (haven't kept up, since I did a bunch of work with S4U back in 2004) | 18:57 |
| topol | dolphm, exactly what will happen :-) | 18:57 |
| ayoung | dwaite, we use it in FreeIPA | 18:57 |
| dolphm | termie put oauth up for review | 18:57 |
| ayoung | so it is in MIT | 18:57 |
| dwaite | groovy. | 18:57 |
| ayoung | SCHWEET! | 18:57 |
| Ryan_Lane | if you guys make an account, you can see how I'm extending the multitenancy concept in LDAP: https://wikitech.wikimedia.org | 18:57 |
| stevemar | #link for those interested in oauth: https://blueprints.launchpad.net/keystone/+spec/delegated-auth-via-oauth | 18:57 |
| Ryan_Lane | I'll give you shell access, and you can search my DIT | 18:58 |
| dwaite | I'm working on approval to work on an oauth 2 implementation | 18:58 |
| ayoung | Ryan_Lane, so you want Kerberos? | 18:58 |
| Ryan_Lane | ayoung: no, I definitely don't want kerberos :) | 18:58 |
| ayoung | Then what? | 18:58 |
| topol | dolphm, what about the nosetest option issue. its annoying | 18:58 |
| Ryan_Lane | I want people to login through the web interface and be given a token that they can use through the cli | 18:58 |
| Ryan_Lane | or for the web interface to act on their behalf | 18:58 |
| dolphm | topol: what issue? | 18:59 |
| Ryan_Lane | but I don't necessarily want them to login with a password | 18:59 |
| dolphm | dwaite: cool | 18:59 |
| spzala | dolph, #link http://fpaste.org/tLAR/ | 18:59 |
| dolphm | dwaite: i assume you don't mean from me lol | 18:59 |
| dwaite | dolphm: if only it was from you :D | 18:59 |
| ayoung | spzala, why no venv? | 19:00 |
| topol | dolphm, I checked git blame and it was due to something termie added | 19:00 |
| dolphm | ayoung: because it's faster to manage your own | 19:00 |
| topol | ayoung, must we now use venv? | 19:00 |
| dwaite | would I create a new blueprint for oauth2 or attach it to termie's? | 19:00 |
| dolphm | spzala: update nose | 19:00 |
| dolphm | topol: no | 19:00 |
| spzala | ayoung, I usually do but to create error nicely I selected no.. though even with venv error is there | 19:00 |
| topol | dolphm, should we pull termies options off? | 19:00 |
| ayoung | dolphm, the --with-openstack breaks if you run the tests outside of venv. | 19:00 |
| dwaite | oh no, time's up :| | 19:00 |
| spzala | dolph, ahhh ... OK. thanks! | 19:00 |
| ayoung | spzala, no, it should not be | 19:01 |
| dolphm | ayoung: is that an issue? | 19:01 |
| spzala | ayoung, hmmm... i did it that way too to make sure | 19:01 |
| ayoung | but the issues is where does --with-openstack come from | 19:01 |
| topol | comes from termie | 19:01 |
| ayoung | dolphm, if you run -N you see the error spzala is talking about | 19:01 |
| dolphm | it's a nose plugin | 19:01 |
| ayoung | I run in an venv and no problem | 19:01 |
| dolphm | ayoung: lies | 19:01 |
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| spzala | ayoung, something with virtual machine that it ididn't update node with venv like it supposed to? | 19:02 |
| dolphm | just pip install -r tools/test-requires | 19:02 |
| dwaite | dolphm; process-wise would oauth 2 be a new blueprint? | 19:02 |
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| ayoung | dolphm, what is the nose plugin that provides --with-openstack | 19:02 |
| spzala | ayoung, will verify it again. | 19:02 |
| dolphm | dwaite: yes, and land as an extension similar to termie's oauth implementation | 19:02 |
| dwaite | ok | 19:02 |
| dolphm | ayoung: pip install openstack.nose_plugin | 19:03 |
| gyee | dolphm, what's the timeline for Havana again? | 19:03 |
| ayoung | dolphm, thanks | 19:03 |
| dolphm | gyee: unreleased | 19:03 |
| ayoung | dolphm, that should go in hacking, I think | 19:03 |
| dolphm | gyee: watch mailing list this week | 19:03 |
| gyee | m2 would be mid June'ish? | 19:03 |
| dolphm | next summit is nov 4-9, so before then | 19:03 |
| dolphm | gyee: dunno | 19:03 |
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| dolphm | ayoung: it's in tools/test-requires, so no, it has no need to be in hacking | 19:04 |
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| ayoung | dolphm, yep, that is the trick. spzala I ran sudo easy_install openstack.nose_plugin to get it | 19:04 |
| topol | dolphm, so I do a pip install openstack.nose_plugin to fix this? | 19:04 |
| ayoung | topol, or easy_install | 19:04 |
| ayoung | OK, we are over time | 19:04 |
| spzala | ayoung: Cool. Thanks!! | 19:04 |
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| topol | moving over to openstack-dev | 19:04 |
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| dolphm | topol: yes, or just run pip install -r tools/test-requires | 19:05 |
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| dolphm | topol: perhaps with an --update | 19:05 |
| dolphm | #endmeeting | 19:05 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack meetings || Development in #openstack-dev || Help in #openstack" | 19:05 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Tue Apr 23 19:05:31 2013 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 19:05 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/keystone/2013/keystone.2013-04-23-18.00.html | 19:05 |
| dolphm | (sorry!) | 19:05 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/keystone/2013/keystone.2013-04-23-18.00.txt | 19:05 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/keystone/2013/keystone.2013-04-23-18.00.log.html | 19:05 |
| * fungi smiles | 19:05 | |
| pleia2 | o/ | 19:05 |
| anteaya | o/ | 19:06 |
| jeblair | #startmeeting infra | 19:06 |
| openstack | Meeting started Tue Apr 23 19:06:14 2013 UTC. The chair is jeblair. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 19:06 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 19:06 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: infra)" | 19:06 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'infra' | 19:06 |
| clarkb | o/ | 19:06 |
| jeblair | #link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings/InfraTeamMeeting#Agenda_for_next_meeting | 19:06 |
| jeblair | #link http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/infra/2013/infra.2013-04-09-19.02.html | 19:06 |
| jeblair | no actions from last meeting! | 19:07 |
| jeblair | #topic jenkins slave operating systems | 19:07 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "jenkins slave operating systems (Meeting topic: infra)" | 19:07 | |
| zaro | o/ | 19:07 |
| jeblair | mordred: ping | 19:07 |
| jeblair | mordred wanted to discuss some aspects of this -- a process to fall back on lts after testing latest ubuntu | 19:08 |
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| fungi | and at the moment we're still using dprince's rackspace account for rhel6 slaves... | 19:08 |
| jeblair | as for that, i think we should switch to centos | 19:08 |
| jlk | yikes | 19:08 |
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| clarkb | jeblair: ++ I think that was the general agreement. Also moving from centos to rhel later if details get sorted shouldn't be terribly difficult | 19:09 |
| jeblair | earlier we decided to set the summit as a cut-off for when we'd give up on waiting for rhel licenses | 19:09 |
| fungi | and i think he's still working on backporting rhel6 fixes to stable releases before we can refactor the jobs and start enforcing anything in the gate there | 19:09 |
| * ttx waves | 19:10 | |
| jeblair | oneiric is eol on may 9... | 19:10 |
| fungi | i'd like to defer centos discussions until we can bring the issue back up with dprince | 19:11 |
| jeblair | and that's our current 2.6 test platform | 19:11 |
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| fungi | but i suspect it would be easy enough to tackle now that rhel6 slaves are easily launched | 19:11 |
| jeblair | fungi: from talking at the summit, afaik he's on board with centos. perhaps he'll chime in. | 19:11 |
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| jeblair | i think we should decide now what to do about rhel/centos, and i also think we need a backup plan if one of those is not ready for testing 2.6 globally | 19:13 |
| olaph | o/ | 19:13 |
| jeblair | if rhel/centos aren't ready by may 9, what should we do? | 19:14 |
| fungi | i can go ahead and start launching centos slaves. rhel6 seems to be working on master for everything where we use oneiric, just not for some stable release branches | 19:14 |
| pleia2 | might depend on how close we are? could keep oneiric running a little bit past EOL | 19:14 |
| clarkb | jeblair: debian? in theory debian would be very close to our ubuntu stuff | 19:14 |
| clarkb | and I doubt debian has forked python | 19:15 |
| fungi | but yes, there may be a patch or two pending for grizzly on a couple projects, and sounded like still a few for folsom as well | 19:15 |
| pleia2 | squeeze comes with 2.6, but that'll be oldstable probably next week or so | 19:15 |
| pleia2 | ah, wheezy has the python2.6 packages | 19:16 |
| fungi | oldstable still gets us at least 6 months of security support though | 19:16 |
| pleia2 | yeah | 19:16 |
| anteaya | choosing debian would work well for the upcoming use of eNovance servers for testing | 19:16 |
| pleia2 | anteaya: yeah, and we did tell you guys at ODS that testing debian could be on our horizon anyway | 19:16 |
| fungi | and yes, i'm running packaged 2.6, 2.7, 3.2 and 3.3 on wheezy currently as well. ought to work | 19:16 |
| pleia2 | wheezy should hit stable the first week in may (fingers crossed) | 19:16 |
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| anteaya | pleia2: pending TC approval was what I had in my notes | 19:17 |
| anteaya | but if we are discussing a soft release, thumbs up from me | 19:17 |
| pleia2 | anteaya: yeah | 19:17 |
| jeblair | to be clear, we take direction from what to test on from the supported platforms identified by the tc | 19:17 |
| clarkb | #link http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/tc/2013/tc.2013-01-08-20.02.log.html | 19:17 |
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| jeblair | we're in the unusual situation of _possibly_ being unable to fulfill those requirements after may 9 | 19:18 |
| jeblair | unless rhel/centos starts working | 19:18 |
| jeblair | so in that case, i think we can look to alternatives such as debian to approximate what we're doing now | 19:18 |
| jeblair | but i don't think that necessarily means that we'd continue doing that | 19:19 |
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| fungi | again, i'm mainly worried about folsom working on centos... maybe also grizzly. i expect master to "just work" | 19:19 |
| jeblair | once rhel/centos are working | 19:19 |
| fungi | i can try to get some centos and debian slaves spun up this evening. i'll give me an opportunity to test UtahDave's salt minion registration additions while i'm at it | 19:20 |
| fungi | er, it'll give me an opportunity | 19:20 |
| jeblair | fungi: okay. it would be good to know if debian is an option | 19:20 |
| fungi | but that way we'll know if we have work ahead of us from a launching slaves perspective | 19:21 |
| anteaya | two birds with one stone, nice | 19:21 |
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| jeblair | also, i'm pretty sure lucid won't work, but perhaps that's worth double checking | 19:22 |
| jeblair | #action fungi spin up centos and debian slaves | 19:22 |
| fungi | also would be nice to add them into d-g if that part works... or are we less concerned about oneiric devstack slaves since they're short-lived | 19:22 |
| pleia2 | I think lucid is a long shot | 19:22 |
| *** lloydde has quit IRC | 19:23 | |
| jeblair | fungi: oneiric dg slaves can go away now that we're killing the diablo branch | 19:23 |
| fungi | istr devstack still being broken on rhel/centos (supposed to be more or less fixed in 6.4?) | 19:23 |
| jeblair | we only need it for the unit tests, at the moment | 19:23 |
| fungi | perfect | 19:23 |
| fungi | that makes this a much easier proposition | 19:24 |
| jeblair | #action dprince status of 2.6 unit tests on stable branches on rhel? | 19:25 |
| jeblair | anything else related to this? | 19:25 |
| jeblair | #topic bug triage / havana tasks | 19:25 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "bug triage / havana tasks (Meeting topic: infra)" | 19:25 | |
| jeblair | #link https://etherpad.openstack.org/cibugreview-april2013 | 19:26 |
| jeblair | pleia2 helpfully put that together | 19:26 |
| jeblair | i brain dumped my notes from the summit into the bottom of that | 19:26 |
| jeblair | that's something like ~40 new tasks | 19:26 |
| pleia2 | these are all the ones from https://bugs.launchpad.net/openstack-ci/+milestone/grizzly | 19:26 |
| clarkb | do we want to set aside an hour at some point in the near future to go through the list together in an organized fashion? | 19:26 |
| *** jaybuff has joined #openstack-meeting | 19:27 | |
| pleia2 | so we also probably want to retarget and also look at bugs that don't have a target at all (I haven't done that yet) | 19:27 |
| jeblair | clarkb: yes, i'd like to do that | 19:27 |
| clarkb | pleia2: is today too busy for that? if so I can drive it | 19:27 |
| pleia2 | today is good | 19:27 |
| jeblair | i'm free after this meeting. :) | 19:27 |
| zaro | ++ | 19:28 |
| pleia2 | perfect | 19:28 |
| clarkb | awesome | 19:28 |
| jeblair | okay, so let's work on that today, including going over the tasks i dumped at the bottom and making new bugs for those | 19:28 |
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| jeblair | #topic aaaa records | 19:29 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "aaaa records (Meeting topic: infra)" | 19:29 | |
| jeblair | should i send out an announcement today and say we'll add aaaa records on friday? | 19:30 |
| rainya | o/ | 19:30 |
| clarkb | +++++++++++++ | 19:30 |
| clarkb | sorry I am very excited about this | 19:30 |
| jeblair | me too | 19:30 |
| * fungi ^2 | 19:30 | |
| rainya | newbie dumb question, but would love a readers digest on "aaaa records" | 19:30 |
| jlk | ipv6 | 19:30 |
| rainya | ah! thank you | 19:31 |
| fungi | rainya: ipv6 address resource records in dns | 19:31 |
| fungi | an ipv6 address is 4x as big as an ipv4 address, thus aaaa instead of just a | 19:31 |
| clarkb | rainya: after the grizzly summit we migrated our jenkins and gerrit servers to ipv6 capable VMs. we are only just now getting around to adding records to DNS so that people will hit them on their ipv6 addresses | 19:31 |
| * rainya loves how readers digest means so many different things ;) | 19:31 | |
| clarkb | there were various problems we ran into before that needed to be fixed before we could flip the switch | 19:31 |
| rainya | thanks guys | 19:31 |
| jlk | also, when people try to learn ipv6, they make that noise. "AAAA!" | 19:32 |
| pleia2 | hah | 19:32 |
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| fungi | at the moment i still know of three machines in rackspace exhibiting that ipv6 ssh issue, so they need to continue not to get aaaa records until that's solved | 19:32 |
| fungi | the most recent ticket is 939341 | 19:33 |
| jeblair | so maybe 1800utc/11am pdt friday? | 19:33 |
| fungi | works for me | 19:33 |
| clarkb | ++ | 19:34 |
| jeblair | (going for early enough for people to notice problems before the weekend and late enough that it doesn't screw up their week) | 19:34 |
| jeblair | so we have the weekend to revert if there's lots of yelling | 19:34 |
| jeblair | #action jeblair announce aaaa records for 1800utc fri apr 25 2013 | 19:35 |
| jeblair | #topic Discoverability for openstackwatch rss generator | 19:35 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Discoverability for openstackwatch rss generator (Meeting topic: infra)" | 19:35 | |
| anteaya | the openstackwatch rss generator works now | 19:35 |
| anteaya | where should it live? | 19:36 |
| fungi | did anybody come up with good ideas as to where we can visibly hyperlink project-specific resources? | 19:36 |
| pleia2 | somewhere in gerrit's interface is where I would expect it | 19:36 |
| anteaya | should there be a new page? | 19:36 |
| anteaya | or integration into current pages? | 19:36 |
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| fungi | pleia2: like, from the projects list in gerrit or what? (ignoring for the moment how much java might be involved to make that happen) | 19:37 |
| clarkb | fungi: I think if we add something to the footer of the page via js that should work | 19:38 |
| clarkb | we need some additional js for the status alerts anyways | 19:38 |
| pleia2 | fungi: when landing on "review.openstack.org" it would be nic eto be able to search for "RSS" and find it | 19:38 |
| pleia2 | (indeed, I'm sure I did when I first started all of this :)) | 19:38 |
| anteaya | searchable is nice | 19:38 |
| fungi | clarkb: pleia2: yeah, but there's a separate url per-project | 19:38 |
| jeblair | single-feed is an option, but makes little sense in our setup i think | 19:39 |
| fungi | so would that link off to somewhere else with a list of all the different rss feeds then? | 19:39 |
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| pleia2 | fungi: oh, openstackwatch is separate urls? | 19:39 |
| anteaya | pleia2: yes | 19:39 |
| pleia2 | fungi: +1 | 19:39 |
| fungi | one per project, yeah. as jeblair said we could make just one feed but i think it would be pretty useless for our users that way | 19:39 |
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| anteaya | one url per feed, one feed per project | 19:39 |
| * pleia2 nods | 19:40 | |
| fungi | nova devs probably just want to watch the nova feed for example, or maybe just nova and cinder. et cetera | 19:40 |
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| anteaya | could we do both? one page with links to all the feeds plus a feed link per project main page | 19:40 |
| anteaya | too much? | 19:40 |
| jeblair | anteaya: gerrit doesn't really have a project page | 19:40 |
| fungi | the projects list is under "admin" and not many users click there | 19:41 |
| jeblair | (we could add it to the launchpad project pages) | 19:41 |
| fungi | there's an idea | 19:41 |
| anteaya | jeblair: hmmm | 19:41 |
| anteaya | that might work, links on the launchpad project page | 19:42 |
| fungi | i'm liking that suggestion, personally | 19:42 |
| anteaya | so a page with all the links in gerrit, launchpad, or somewhere else? (as well as the wiki) | 19:42 |
| jeblair | i don't think we need more than one of those :) | 19:42 |
| anteaya | okay | 19:43 |
| pleia2 | it is easy enough to do, but how often do people actually go to the launchpad page? I wonder how discoverable it is | 19:43 |
| anteaya | so just a link on the project page in launchpad and a wikipage with all of them | 19:43 |
| jeblair | pleia2: and then link from gerrit to the wiki page for discoverability? | 19:43 |
| pleia2 | jeblair: that's what I'm thinking | 19:43 |
| zaro | it wouldn't be my intuition to goto launch for it. | 19:43 |
| zaro | lauchpad does't even support git. | 19:44 |
| clarkb | zaro: but the bugs and blueprints are all still there | 19:44 |
| pleia2 | people go to lp for bugs, but that won't get them to hte main page | 19:44 |
| jlk | personally I try to avoid EVER going to launchpad | 19:44 |
| anteaya | okay so were in gerrit for the link? | 19:44 |
| anteaya | s/were/where | 19:44 |
| fungi | our gerrit theming is in the config repo, right? if so, just a patch to that presumably | 19:45 |
| pleia2 | where ever it's easiest to add it :) | 19:45 |
| anteaya | hmmm | 19:45 |
| anteaya | okay, I will plant a flag with a patch | 19:45 |
| anteaya | review away if you have better suggestions | 19:45 |
| anteaya | so gerrit (somewhere) launchpad project page, wiki page | 19:46 |
| anteaya | yes? | 19:46 |
| pleia2 | probably not in the header menus since having it buried would be hard to find, in the header or footer? | 19:46 |
| anteaya | pleia2: I'll look around | 19:46 |
| jeblair | i think the footer | 19:46 |
| jeblair | it's not needed in the normal operation of gerrit, it's there for reference | 19:47 |
| pleia2 | yeah | 19:47 |
| anteaya | I try for something and we can hash it out when we have a patch in front of us? | 19:47 |
| pleia2 | thanks anteaya | 19:47 |
| anteaya | thank you | 19:47 |
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| jeblair | also, we should be very certain about the actual urls -- i think we should consider them permanent once we put this into production and document it. | 19:48 |
| anteaya | good point | 19:48 |
| jeblair | (ie, do we want to use the cdn or host on review.o.o, etc) | 19:48 |
| fungi | yeah, the swift cdn url format i used was just a first stab. other suggestions welcome there | 19:48 |
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| jeblair | let's move on to baremetal? | 19:49 |
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| * fungi nods. 10 minutes remaining | 19:49 | |
| jeblair | #topic baremetal project | 19:49 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "baremetal project (Meeting topic: infra)" | 19:49 | |
| clarkb | devananda: ^ | 19:49 |
| devananda | hi! | 19:49 |
| devananda | jeblair: so i believe we have approval from mark collier for the code name "truss" | 19:50 |
| devananda | what's the process to get things going? | 19:50 |
| fungi | the name sounds painful ;) | 19:50 |
| jeblair | devananda: bring it up with the tc, since it's a scope change for an existing project | 19:51 |
| devananda | for those whose minds might wander, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Truss | 19:51 |
| anteaya | devananda: ha ha ha, I can't stop laughing | 19:51 |
| jeblair | devananda: (i don't anticipate a problem, people in general are in favor of modularizing nova) | 19:51 |
| jeblair | devananda: ttx may know the exact procedure -- does there need to be a formal motion, and if so, how should it be written? | 19:52 |
| jeblair | devananda: when the tc signs off on it, we can run a git filter branch to make a new repo | 19:53 |
| devananda | jeblair: gotcha. /me waits to see if ttx is around and has an answer :) | 19:53 |
| jeblair | devananda: and otherwise set it up like a new project | 19:53 |
| clarkb | assuming the tc hands it back to us stamped with approval we would need to filter branch, import into gerrit, setup jenkins tests. The other bits I think you can do for yourself on launchpad etc | 19:53 |
| fungi | from a technical perspective, this is more or less like a new gerrit project just with the need to split the repos via filter-branch. do we do that before or clean it up after import? | 19:53 |
| fungi | er, what clarkb said | 19:53 |
| clarkb | fungi: before please | 19:53 |
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| fungi | so basically there will need to be a quiescence period where people merge what they're going to merge, freeze, split, then resume work on the new project i guess | 19:54 |
| devananda | does that quiescence apply to all of nova, or just the baremetal-specific code bits? | 19:54 |
| clarkb | I think just baremetal specific bits | 19:55 |
| clarkb | you also patch in important changes after the split | 19:55 |
| devananda | great. that should be fairly simple | 19:55 |
| fungi | for nova proper there'll just be a follow-up commit to delete all the bm-related files presumably | 19:55 |
| jeblair | devananda: i just squatted truss on launchpad and pypi | 19:55 |
| devananda | well, no. we won't delete the current code from nova trunk | 19:56 |
| clarkb | because it has to be there for at least one release as deprecated | 19:56 |
| devananda | like with cinder and quantum, there'll be parallel things for a bit | 19:56 |
| rainya | o/ does this mean the bm jokes are nearing eol? | 19:56 |
| fungi | ahh, okay. even easier then | 19:56 |
| devananda | exactly | 19:56 |
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| devananda | rainya: hopefully, though now you can make truss jokes instead :p | 19:56 |
| rainya | devananda: i shall try to content myself with straight poles joining up with nodes! | 19:56 |
| jeblair | devananda: is truss going to get its own user-facing api, and client? | 19:57 |
| devananda | rainya: :) | 19:57 |
| jlk | "squatted truss" -- the jokes make themselves | 19:57 |
| devananda | jeblair: thanks | 19:57 |
| fungi | jlk: better than squatting bm | 19:57 |
| devananda | jeblair: yes | 19:57 |
| devananda | jeblair: yes, it iwll have a user-facing api | 19:57 |
| jeblair | oh, exciting. i am curious as to why, but i don't need to know right now. | 19:58 |
| jeblair | i also squatted python-trussclient then. :) | 19:58 |
| jlk | enrollment of machines in the internal inventory | 19:58 |
| devananda | yep ^ | 19:58 |
| devananda | also for interfacing with CMDBs and so forth | 19:58 |
| jeblair | ok | 19:58 |
| fungi | one-minute warning | 19:59 |
| devananda | so. i'll ping ttx and the tc, and let ya know. thanks! | 19:59 |
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| jeblair | that's time. thanks everyone! | 19:59 |
| jeblair | #endmeeting | 19:59 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack meetings || Development in #openstack-dev || Help in #openstack" | 19:59 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Tue Apr 23 19:59:41 2013 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 19:59 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/infra/2013/infra.2013-04-23-19.06.html | 19:59 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/infra/2013/infra.2013-04-23-19.06.txt | 19:59 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/infra/2013/infra.2013-04-23-19.06.log.html | 19:59 |
| rainya | briefly, wanted to give a shout out jlk who is from Rackspace's Deploy Infrastructure team | 20:00 |
| * jlk waives from the corner | 20:01 | |
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| mordred | hi jlk | 20:39 |
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| notmyname | o/ | 21:00 |
| ttx | o/ | 21:00 |
| markwash | \o | 21:00 |
| gabrielhurley | \o | 21:00 |
| ttx | annegentle, markmc, dolphm, jgriffith, russellb, markmcclain, shardy, jd__: around ? | 21:00 |
| shardy | o/ | 21:00 |
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| annegentle | o/ | 21:00 |
| markmc | hey | 21:00 |
| markmcclain | o/ | 21:00 |
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| ttx | Missing dolphm, russellb and jd__, I guess we can start | 21:01 |
| dolphm | o/ | 21:01 |
| ttx | #startmeeting project | 21:02 |
| openstack | Meeting started Tue Apr 23 21:02:05 2013 UTC. The chair is ttx. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 21:02 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 21:02 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: project)" | 21:02 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'project' | 21:02 |
| ttx | We'll skip per-project status this week, in favor of generic advice and open discussion | 21:02 |
| ttx | #link http://wiki.openstack.org/Meetings/ProjectMeeting | 21:02 |
| ttx | should take us less than the hour | 21:02 |
| ttx | #topic Grizzly documentation release status | 21:02 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Grizzly documentation release status (Meeting topic: project)" | 21:02 | |
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| ttx | annegentle: still targeting April 30 ? | 21:02 |
| annegentle | I only accept generic advice anyway | 21:02 |
| annegentle | Yep, planning to release/publish 4/30 | 21:03 |
| annegentle | #link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Documentation/Release | 21:03 |
| ttx | What's included in the docs release exactly ? | 21:03 |
| annegentle | that's the process | 21:03 |
| annegentle | it has to do with URLs, comment threads, builds, um. all the things | 21:03 |
| ttx | everything under docs.o.o ? | 21:03 |
| annegentle | #info Doc released planned for 4/30/13 | 21:03 |
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| annegentle | make sure Google indexes correctly, etc. Yep, everything under docs.openstack.org/grizzly anyway | 21:04 |
| jgriffith | o/ | 21:04 |
| ttx | annegentle: Any specific issue that needs urgent help/attention from others ? | 21:04 |
| annegentle | Also I'm working on "who wrote Grizzly docs?" data analysis. | 21:04 |
| annegentle | yes. Specifically install docs. | 21:04 |
| annegentle | There are two doc patches in review for the Basic Install document: | 21:05 |
| annegentle | #link ubuntu https://review.openstack.org/#/c/26954/ | 21:05 |
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| annegentle | #link fedora https://review.openstack.org/#/c/26919/ | 21:05 |
| ttx | #help Ubuntu folk please help on https://review.openstack.org/#/c/26954/ | 21:05 |
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| ttx | #help Fedora folk please help on https://review.openstack.org/#/c/26919/ | 21:05 |
| annegentle | Networking team seems to have docs on their radar, thank you to them. | 21:06 |
| annegentle | jgriffith: you have a docs Q or one for ttx? | 21:06 |
| jgriffith | annegentle: no, sorry, just showing up late :) | 21:06 |
| ttx | annegentle: no, I think he was just indicating his presence | 21:06 |
| annegentle | jgriffith: good to see you! | 21:06 |
| jgriffith | :) | 21:06 |
| annegentle | ttx: that's it for docs. | 21:06 |
| ttx | annegentle: ok | 21:06 |
| ttx | Questions on doc release ? | 21:07 |
| ttx | #topic Havana Release schedule | 21:07 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Havana Release schedule (Meeting topic: project)" | 21:07 | |
| ttx | During the Design Summit we had, like always, a session on release schedule | 21:07 |
| ttx | The proposed one looks like this: http://ubuntuone.com/p/mhD/ | 21:07 |
| ttx | Release on October 17, Feature freeze on Tuesday, September 3 | 21:08 |
| ttx | The main issue raised about that timing was that Monday, September 2 was US Labor day | 21:08 |
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| ttx | To reduce the issue I propose we have Feature freeze on the Wednesday (September 4th) and havana-3 tagging on the Friday (September 6) | 21:08 |
| ttx | Does that sound good ? | 21:08 |
| jgriffith | ttx: +1 on Wed | 21:08 |
| markmcclain | +1 on Wed | 21:09 |
| markwash | +1 on wednesday | 21:09 |
| dolphm | +1 | 21:09 |
| ttx | Unless there are objections I'll publish it tomorrow and adjust milestones for projects that are using them | 21:09 |
| annegentle | I thought Thurs. was your "magic" release day? | 21:09 |
| ttx | annegentle: It's the "thank god there is friday to catch up in case of problems" day | 21:09 |
| ttx | annegentle: I can publish on Saturday morning if shit happens | 21:10 |
| dolphm | s/in case of/due to/ | 21:10 |
| ttx | #action ttx to publish havana schedule with Feature freeze on the Wednesday (September 4th) and havana-3 tagging on the Friday (September 6) | 21:11 |
| ttx | Questions about the release schedule ? | 21:11 |
| ttx | #topic Havana cycle plans | 21:12 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Havana cycle plans (Meeting topic: project)" | 21:12 | |
| ttx | For the next week(s) the main goal will be to turn the summit sessions into a reasonable set of actionable blueprints | 21:12 |
| ttx | The rationale behind tracking work being done as blueprints is to communicate plans to the wider community -- not everyone has time to follow each project closely | 21:12 |
| ttx | With blueprints we know what should be worked on, who should be working on it and when it's planned to land | 21:12 |
| ttx | So the plan is: | 21:12 |
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| ttx | 1- File blueprints for stuff that people volunteered to work on. A blueprint needs to cover a clear feature that can be "completed" in the Havana timeframe. "Improve database performance" is not really a good one. | 21:13 |
| ttx | (For complex stuff, file multiple blueprints and create dependencies between them) | 21:13 |
| ttx | (People should set the Assignee, the "Milestone target" to when they think it should be landed, and propose the "Series goal" to havana) | 21:13 |
| ttx | 2- You PTLs review the proposed blueprints, accept the "Series goal" (you can use the page at https://blueprints.launchpad.net/YOURPROJECT/havana/+setgoals to do that) and set a priority | 21:13 |
| ttx | Priority reflects how important a given blueprint is to your objectives for this cycle. "Essential" means "cannot ship without" and should be used carefully | 21:14 |
| ttx | Blueprints that are accepted in series show up on https://blueprints.launchpad.net/YOURPROJECT/havana -- that's what we'll refine over the next weeks | 21:14 |
| ttx | Questions on this process ? | 21:14 |
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| gabrielhurley | \o | 21:15 |
| ttx | jd__: you'll have to read the meeting logs :) ^ | 21:15 |
| ttx | gabrielhurley: shoot | 21:15 |
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| gabrielhurley | ttx: you usually only open the next milestone shortly before the current one closes, but that makes it a little trickier to "lay out" plans for when blueprints will happen | 21:15 |
| gabrielhurley | e.g. I can target things to H1, or generally to Havana | 21:16 |
| gabrielhurley | but can't say what should be H2 or H3 | 21:16 |
| ttx | gabrielhurley: no no, you cvan target stuff to h2/h3 | 21:16 |
| gabrielhurley | oh, did you open those? | 21:16 |
| gabrielhurley | they weren't there when I looked the other day | 21:16 |
| ttx | gabrielhurley: yes, I created them today | 21:16 |
| gabrielhurley | heh. you pulled my favorite trick! | 21:16 |
| jgriffith | ttx: flying under the radar | 21:16 |
| gabrielhurley | I should've refreshed ;-) | 21:16 |
| gabrielhurley | thanks | 21:17 |
| ttx | Using my whole new https://github.com/ttx/openstack-releasing/blob/master/create_milestones.py script! | 21:17 |
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| ttx | gabrielhurley: ideally the whole plan (h1/h2/h3) should be laid out -- but I know that h3 is generally a moving target | 21:18 |
| ttx | Other questions ? | 21:18 |
| ttx | Next week we'll start reviewing those havana plans. let me know if you need help with this step. | 21:19 |
| ttx | #topic Havana Design Summit feedback | 21:19 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Havana Design Summit feedback (Meeting topic: project)" | 21:19 | |
| jd__ | ttx: sure thanks, sorry my IRC bouncer got killed at some point | 21:19 |
| ttx | While it's still hot in your memory, any suggestion for improvement on the Design Summit part ? | 21:19 |
| jgriffith | The seperate section of the conf hall helped a lot IMO | 21:19 |
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| jgriffith | Overlap of sessions was an issue, but I think that's going to be the way it goes | 21:20 |
| markwash | I found it a difficult to know what was going on in unconference sessions on the fly | 21:20 |
| ttx | yeah, I was a bit skeptical about it when Lauren mentioned it... but it was the only thing that kept us sane | 21:20 |
| annegentle | better wifi in the rooms needing Etherpads | 21:20 |
| dolphm | markwash: +1 | 21:20 |
| markmc | we talked a bit about reducing the overlap with the conference part | 21:21 |
| dolphm | annegentle: ethernet was available to presenters, afaik | 21:21 |
| dhellmann | we could have used whiteboards in the rooms, too, for drawing diagrams | 21:21 |
| ttx | markwash: I think we'll have to put the unconference stuff online to improve visibility | 21:21 |
| annegentle | wifi improved after day 1 | 21:21 |
| jgriffith | dhellmann: +1 | 21:21 |
| markmc | i.e. giving us a couple of days where we can do design summit sessions without the conference in parallel | 21:21 |
| ttx | dhellmann: some rooms had some | 21:21 |
| markmc | to reduce distraction, let us focus | 21:21 |
| dhellmann | ttx: ok, maybe I just wasn't in those rooms. did we have to ask for them? | 21:21 |
| * markmc thinks that's worth trying to figure out | 21:21 | |
| ttx | I definitely asked for one in every room during the sroom steup thing | 21:21 |
| dolphm | unconferences seemed to be generally more productive than regular sessions, IMO | 21:21 |
| annegentle | dhellmann: I wanted a white board and took one from another room | 21:21 |
| jgriffith | markmc: +1 | 21:21 |
| ttx | dhellmann: theoretically there should have been one in each | 21:21 |
| * dhellmann shakes fist at annegentle | 21:22 | |
| * annegentle slinks away with markers | 21:22 | |
| dolphm | the two big rooms in the back of the dev lounge with round tables were AWESOME for impromptu unconferencing | 21:22 |
| * jgriffith now knows why not whiteboard in 110 | 21:22 | |
| * markmc spotted a whiteboard in the wild | 21:22 | |
| markmc | someone even wrote on it | 21:22 |
| ttx | markmc: we can track who stole it then :) | 21:23 |
| jgriffith | ha! | 21:23 |
| annegentle | dolphm: wow I never found those! I needed that. | 21:23 |
| dhellmann | it would be nice if the dev area wasn't locked down during the keynotes. I know they want us all to attend, but with limited time for hallway track / openspace meetings... | 21:23 |
| jd__ | there was even a white board in the unconference room at some point :) | 21:23 |
| annegentle | I thought the summit 101 session was helpful | 21:23 |
| ttx | About session overlap - heckj wants to try some more dynamic scheduling | 21:23 |
| dolphm | define "dynamic" | 21:23 |
| jd__ | dhellmann: +1 | 21:23 |
| ttx | he agrees to be the point man to arrange sessions around. I know that's a nightmare to handle | 21:24 |
| markmc | oh, scheduling | 21:24 |
| markmc | sched.org ROCKS | 21:24 |
| ttx | dolphm: no more pre-defined topic layout | 21:24 |
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| dolphm | oh interesting | 21:24 |
| ttx | dolphm: have keystone sessions scattered all 4 days$ | 21:24 |
| * markmc literally couldn't have coped without sched synced into his calendar | 21:24 | |
| dhellmann | markmc: have you seen guidebook? even better. actually downloads to your mobile device. | 21:24 |
| dolphm | ttx: i would definitely like that | 21:24 |
| dhellmann | but +1 on the calendar sync | 21:24 |
| jgriffith | ttx: could you elaborate a bit? | 21:24 |
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| dolphm | give us time to talk about things in between sessions | 21:25 |
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| annegentle | ttx: heckj: oo I'd like to hear more too | 21:25 |
| markmc | dhellmann, yeah, all I used was the ical feed | 21:25 |
| ttx | jgriffith: Stuff is scheduled based on everyone's constraints, rather then in one pre-allocated block for that topic | 21:25 |
| jgriffith | ttx: yeah, got it... big +1 here | 21:25 |
| ttx | jgriffith: generally involves someone not sleeping for the last 7 days before the summit starts | 21:25 |
| ttx | I know that. I did it for the first ones | 21:26 |
| jgriffith | ttx: who sleeps the week before the summit? | 21:26 |
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| jgriffith | that's what the plane is for | 21:26 |
| ttx | i.e. someone receives all the angry emails about doublebooking and tries to resolve all the constraints... then pisses off more people | 21:26 |
| ttx | not my definition of fun, and the main reason why we switched to preallocated slots | 21:27 |
| jgriffith | ahhh... I guess I didn't envision that extreme of dynamic | 21:27 |
| ttx | but preallocated slots have their drawbacks | 21:27 |
| ttx | like keystone folks not attending security track at conference etc | 21:27 |
| jgriffith | I interpretted it as just spaced out, still scheduled but not in blocks | 21:27 |
| jgriffith | block/tracks | 21:27 |
| * russellb is around now, sorry. | 21:27 | |
| ttx | russellb: read scrollback and let me know if you have any question on the process | 21:28 |
| markmcclain | I just wish there was a way that common/process could get a half day head start | 21:28 |
| russellb | ack | 21:28 |
| markmcclain | that would allow more PTL and core involvement in those tracks | 21:28 |
| annegentle | blocks/tracks means being in the same room for hours/days, not sure if that's okay for most people? (Efficient) | 21:28 |
| notmyname | as a voice in favor of preallocated tracks, I found "clustered" sessions to be very helpful. also it helps when figuring out other schedules for the week when planning for the summit | 21:28 |
| dolphm | markmcclain: +1 | 21:29 |
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| jgriffith | Maybe we can try to see if broader project topics fall out next time around? | 21:29 |
| jgriffith | ie: bare-metal | 21:29 |
| annegentle | notmyname: I liked being in one room for my track, it was easier if intense | 21:29 |
| ttx | notmyname: it certainly simplifies the scheduling constraints, by solving a lot of them ahead of time :) | 21:29 |
| jgriffith | rather than having one in Nova, Glance, Cinder etc... combined versions | 21:29 |
| ttx | we'll see what can be done and what can be implemented in the already-negociated time and space | 21:30 |
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| ttx | Any more feedback on Design Summit ? On the general event ? | 21:30 |
| annegentle | I was really impressed with the crowd handling considering the growth. And I had a darn good time to boot. | 21:31 |
| annegentle | To me, best yet. | 21:31 |
| markmc | definitely | 21:31 |
| dhellmann | annegentle: +1 | 21:31 |
| dolphm | the ratio of people attending design summit sessions and not participating is starting to get quite high | 21:31 |
| ttx | dhellmann: about general session blocking devs: I think Lauren mentioned that we would not do that anymore | 21:31 |
| markmc | dolphm, you thought so? I actually thought it was often less than previous times | 21:32 |
| ttx | dhellmann: They may actually have stuff running in the main big room all the time | 21:32 |
| patelna_ | + growing participants from women - Anne thxs for hosting social | 21:32 |
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| ttx | dhellmann: with some tickets only allowing entracnce to that "keynote" space | 21:32 |
| dhellmann | ttx: good | 21:32 |
| annegentle | patelna_: happy to play host! | 21:32 |
| dhellmann | ah, I like that, too | 21:32 |
| ttx | dhellmann: less people potentially wandering in our direction | 21:33 |
| dolphm | markmcclain: other than the unconference sessions I attended, it seems like the majority of design session attendees were just there to lurk | 21:33 |
| markwash | patelna_: +1 | 21:33 |
| patelna_ | TTX +1 | 21:33 |
| gabrielhurley | I didn't mind the lurkers | 21:33 |
| ttx | we'll also mark the design summit session more clearly on the schedule, so that they can't be mistaken for a regular presentation | 21:33 |
| gabrielhurley | I was just glad the lurkers didn't participate if they were OT or distracting | 21:33 |
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| ttx | something like "Design session: FOO" all over | 21:34 |
| jd__ | dolphm: definitely | 21:34 |
| dolphm | ttx: awesome, i was really confused when i was told the dev lounge was closed | 21:34 |
| dhellmann | ttx: could we mark them as separate tracks in sched.org to make it easier to follow the themes with different colors? | 21:34 |
| patelna_ | too many people in the design summit ...we need to split the days liek what we had before | 21:34 |
| ttx | Sometimes too many lurkers prevent you from having the discussion, that's the limit number we don't want to cross (hence relatively small rooms) | 21:34 |
| dolphm | ttx: they can be smaller! | 21:34 |
| dolphm | with bouncers | 21:35 |
| ttx | dhellmann: design summit sessions have their own color already | 21:35 |
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| dolphm | ttx: but they're not color coded by project anymore | 21:35 |
| dhellmann | ttx: I want separate colors for each project | 21:35 |
| patelna_ | we had that | 21:35 |
| dhellmann | or track or whatever (incl. docs, qa, process, etc.) | 21:35 |
| patelna_ | the problem was it was overcrowded | 21:35 |
| ttx | dhellmann: i'll see what sched lets you do. Having them grouped under a single "design summit" headline is convenient too | 21:36 |
| ttx | maybe we'll go back to separate sched websites :) | 21:36 |
| dolphm | ttx: create two seperate schedules again, maybe? | 21:36 |
| * dhellmann didn't mean to open a can of worms | 21:36 | |
| ttx | no no, that's good feedback, keep it coming | 21:37 |
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| ttx | #topic Open discussion | 21:37 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Open discussion (Meeting topic: project)" | 21:37 | |
| ttx | Any preference on the order you guys should have on the regular meetings ? | 21:37 |
| ttx | I tend to place "provider" projects (Oslo, Keystone), before "consumer" projects (Horizon, Heat), but if anyone is based in Europe they can go earlier | 21:38 |
| dolphm | i like being early in the meeting | 21:38 |
| ttx | I was thinking something like: | 21:38 |
| ttx | Oslo, Keystone, Ceilometer, Swift, Glance, Quantum, Cinder, Nova, Heat, Horizon | 21:38 |
| gabrielhurley | oh sure. put me last. ;-) | 21:38 |
| gabrielhurley | (that's fine) | 21:38 |
| ttx | gabrielhurley: you have a meeting next :P | 21:38 |
| ttx | I thought I was doing you a FAVOR | 21:38 |
| dolphm | lol | 21:39 |
| ttx | Still waiting for my beer | 21:39 |
| gabrielhurley | haha | 21:39 |
| gabrielhurley | next time you're in california | 21:39 |
| jd__ | ttx: fine with me! | 21:39 |
| jgriffith | ttx: no objections here | 21:40 |
| ttx | It's in the predator order | 21:40 |
| russellb | ha, yeah, it's fine with me | 21:40 |
| gabrielhurley | openstack food chain? lol | 21:40 |
| markwash | ttx: you should hold out for the germain-robin | 21:40 |
| ttx | Well it's not set in stone, we can always adjust | 21:40 |
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| ttx | Anything else ? Questions about the release cycle, process, blueprints, anything ? | 21:41 |
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| russellb | so the proposer should be able to set the milestone target? | 21:41 |
| markmc | are we nearly there yet? | 21:41 |
| ttx | russellb: yes, if he sets himself as assignee, certainly | 21:41 |
| russellb | ok, cool. | 21:42 |
| markmc | can we make "baby steps" the theme for this release? | 21:42 |
| markmc | maybe have a logo and stuff? | 21:42 |
| * russellb stares at his pile of 175 blueprints | 21:42 | |
| ttx | markmc: how is "baby steps" related to "Havana" ? | 21:42 |
| ttx | Some kind of dance thing ? | 21:42 |
| markmc | baby steps + havana == baby with cigar | 21:42 |
| markmc | hmm | 21:42 |
| markmc | baby swaggering with cigar | 21:43 |
| markmc | anyway, I digress | 21:43 |
| ttx | I shall raise a thread about the I naming soon, we have a complex issue coming up | 21:43 |
| markmc | oooh, you tease | 21:43 |
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| russellb | heh, still can't find an 'I' near next summit? :) | 21:43 |
| jgriffith | haha.. that's an understatement | 21:43 |
| ttx | as Chinese don't seem to start any word with I | 21:43 |
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| markmc | hehe | 21:43 |
| ttx | there are a few places in the general vicinity, but not in China :) | 21:44 |
| * ttx doesn't want to create a diplocamtic incident, at least not until he is back home | 21:44 | |
| ttx | diplomatic* | 21:44 |
| russellb | there's a manmade lake that starts with 'I', but a man-made tourist area is kinda lame | 21:44 |
| ttx | there are a few towns in Taiwan and Indonesia that start with I | 21:44 |
| dolphm | someone write a google maps query to find the absolute closest anything to the summit that starts with the letter I, and we'll skip the vote | 21:45 |
| ttx | dolphm: you're the man | 21:45 |
| markmc | ttx, that sounds like a sure fire diplomatic incident | 21:45 |
| markmc | ttx, throw some flags into the mix too | 21:45 |
| russellb | Inspiration Lake: http://goo.gl/maps/8l79a | 21:45 |
| markmc | the Inspiration release | 21:45 |
| markmc | cheesy, but not bad | 21:46 |
| russellb | not the worst name ever. | 21:46 |
| ttx | especially cheesy once you see that the lake is artificial and the thing hosts a theme park | 21:46 |
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| russellb | yeah that's the disappointing part :( | 21:46 |
| ttx | anyway, watch out for the thread, sometimes next week probably. You can do your research in the mean time | 21:46 |
| markwash | we should just call it "Island" | 21:46 |
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| dolphm | markmc: +1 | 21:47 |
| ttx | markwash: that kinda reinforces the "non-interoperable" meme | 21:47 |
| markwash | lol | 21:47 |
| russellb | markwash: yeah, i thought about that ... but that's terrible messaging for a project that wants to promote federation and interop :) | 21:47 |
| dolphm | lol | 21:47 |
| bcwaldon | ttx: perfect | 21:47 |
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| russellb | Name: "I...don't know what to call this", short "idunno" | 21:48 |
| dolphm | ttx: are there any specifics on where the summit will be yet, other than 'hong kong'? | 21:48 |
| ttx | Can that thing be described with a thing that starts with a I : http://www.flags.net/images/smallflags/CHIN0100.GIF | 21:48 |
| ttx | dolphm: still under contract negociation | 21:48 |
| ttx | anything else before we end the meeting ? | 21:49 |
| markmc | oh, since this is an open session | 21:49 |
| markmc | I'm working up some improvements on documenting Oslo processes etc. | 21:49 |
| dolphm | Isquare, Hong Kong (a 31 story mall) | 21:49 |
| markmc | one idea we talked about at the summit was incubating APIs having explicit maintainers | 21:49 |
| markwash | we should just skip to K and call it Kowloon (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kowloon_Walled_City) | 21:49 |
| * markmc just proposed this: https://review.openstack.org/#/c/27379/1/MAINTAINERS | 21:49 | |
| markmc | feedback welcome | 21:49 |
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| markmc | ttx, you're in there :) | 21:49 |
| dolphm | there's also an Ikea | 21:49 |
| markwash | lol | 21:50 |
| russellb | will they offer corporate sponsorship of the next release? | 21:50 |
| markwash | that could fit the openstack theme of "some assembly required" :-) | 21:50 |
| ttx | markwash: I like it, but that would confuse the hell out of the watchers | 21:51 |
| ttx | (Kowloon) | 21:51 |
| markwash | nod | 21:51 |
| ttx | markmc: looks good | 21:51 |
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| markmc | ttx, cool, thanks | 21:52 |
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| dolphm | ttx: we can compensate for the Kowloon confusion by naming the subsequent release starting with the letter I | 21:53 |
| dolphm | then we won't have skipped anything and the OCD in all of us will be satisfied (?) | 21:53 |
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| ttx | dolphm: or find some alphabet that skips "I" | 21:54 |
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| dolphm | ttx: the OpenStack(tm) Alphabet | 21:54 |
| ttx | Isquare sounds like some Apple store | 21:54 |
| dolphm | ttx: i guarantee there's a knockoff apple store there | 21:54 |
| notmyname | markmc: are we skipping j? | 21:54 |
| gabrielhurley | letters with dots over them are clearly unacceptable | 21:55 |
| dolphm | i win? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ice_House_Street | 21:55 |
| russellb | oh, and we like naming things after beer, right? | 21:56 |
| dolphm | IPA? | 21:56 |
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| ttx | dolphm: not too bad. Still two words where single words are preferred, but probably the best one suggested so far | 21:56 |
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| dolphm | OpenStack Ice | 21:56 |
| dolphm | done | 21:56 |
| russellb | can pretend it's one word 'icehouse' | 21:56 |
| dolphm | russellb: +1 | 21:56 |
| markwash | we need ice | 21:57 |
| russellb | i like it more than the fake lake | 21:57 |
| gabrielhurley | OpenStack I Ching? | 21:57 |
| russellb | Ice may have a trademark conflict ... | 21:57 |
| ttx | russellb: yeah, as I say, probably the less intrusive abuse | 21:57 |
| russellb | http://www.zeroc.com/ice.html | 21:57 |
| dolphm | russellb: it's safer than Ikea | 21:57 |
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| dolphm | maybe not | 21:58 |
| ttx | anyway, time running out, let's close this | 21:58 |
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| ttx | #endmeeting | 21:58 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack meetings || Development in #openstack-dev || Help in #openstack" | 21:58 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Tue Apr 23 21:58:28 2013 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 21:58 |
| russellb | this is the funnest topic to bikeshed though :) | 21:58 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/project/2013/project.2013-04-23-21.02.html | 21:58 |
| * russellb waves | 21:58 | |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/project/2013/project.2013-04-23-21.02.txt | 21:58 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/project/2013/project.2013-04-23-21.02.log.html | 21:58 |
| * ttx passes the remote to gabrielhurley | 21:58 | |
| gabrielhurley | :-D | 21:58 |
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| *** kspear has joined #openstack-meeting | 22:01 | |
| gabrielhurley | okay | 22:01 |
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| gabrielhurley | #startmeeting horizon | 22:01 |
| openstack | Meeting started Tue Apr 23 22:01:11 2013 UTC. The chair is gabrielhurley. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 22:01 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 22:01 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: horizon)" | 22:01 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'horizon' | 22:01 |
| gabrielhurley | #topic overview | 22:01 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "overview (Meeting topic: horizon)" | 22:01 | |
| gabrielhurley | Hi folks! | 22:01 |
| david-lyle | Hello | 22:01 |
| lcheng | hello | 22:01 |
| * kspear waves | 22:01 | |
| gabrielhurley | Welcome to the first Horizon meeting of the Havana cycle. :-) | 22:01 |
| gabrielhurley | It was great seeing most of you at the summit last week | 22:01 |
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| gabrielhurley | I think we got some great work done, and generally I've tried to capture all the outcomes into blueprints | 22:02 |
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| gabrielhurley | just to recap for anyone that wasn't listening in on the meeting before this: | 22:02 |
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| gabrielhurley | the goal for this week is to get all the havan blueprints laid out, and to get them targeted to milestones and (if possible) assign them to people responsible for them | 22:02 |
| gabrielhurley | At the very least I'd like to get H1 mostly accounted for. | 22:03 |
| gabrielhurley | to that end | 22:03 |
| gabrielhurley | #topic blueprints and bugs | 22:03 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "blueprints and bugs (Meeting topic: horizon)" | 22:03 | |
| gabrielhurley | There's been good work happening on gerrit. I did a bunch of reviews today, and will continue to keep an eye on them. | 22:03 |
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| gabrielhurley | but blueprints are the larger issue currently | 22:03 |
| gabrielhurley | https://blueprints.launchpad.net/horizon/havana | 22:03 |
| gabrielhurley | there's what's targeted to Havana currently | 22:03 |
| gabrielhurley | it should encompasse most of what we talked about at the summit, plus a few that continue to be important | 22:04 |
| gabrielhurley | I'm gonna tackle the API version and extension detection, and hopefully have that done ASAP. My goal is to have that in the next two weeks. | 22:04 |
| gabrielhurley | That one's the blocker for most other work in H, so the sooner the better | 22:04 |
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| gabrielhurley | I'd also like to see to it that we get D3 in place so everyone can start building with it ASAP | 22:05 |
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| gabrielhurley | doesn't mean everything has to be refactored in one go | 22:05 |
| gabrielhurley | just progress on it | 22:05 |
| gabrielhurley | There are a few BPs that trickled over from Grizzly which are targeted to H1 and even have reviews up already, so those are good | 22:06 |
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| gabrielhurley | the two large remaining themes I think are urgent for the early part of this cycle are: | 22:06 |
| gabrielhurley | keystone domain work (blocked by the API version detection) | 22:07 |
| gabrielhurley | and | 22:07 |
| gabrielhurley | the basics of the realtime communication stuff | 22:07 |
| gabrielhurley | that includes exploring python-based websocket solutions, dropping in socket.io, and investigating the RPC listener on Oslo | 22:07 |
| gabrielhurley | of those, I've got the RPC listener assigned to me | 22:08 |
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| gabrielhurley | and a couple people have claimed other peices | 22:08 |
| gabrielhurley | but anyone who'd like to work on specific things is welcome to step up to them, and teamwork is encouraged. ;-) | 22:08 |
| gabrielhurley | for example i'll definitely work closely with whoever works on the websocket stuff | 22:09 |
| gabrielhurley | but I don't think it'd be wise for me to own that one given my usual schedule | 22:09 |
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| gabrielhurley | so let me open it up a little | 22:09 |
| gabrielhurley | does anyone want to argue for specific things they think should be in H1? or *not* in H1? | 22:09 |
| gabrielhurley | or blueprints they're interested in/concerned about? | 22:09 |
| kspear | i'd love to help with the websocket stuff but i don't have a lot of time in H1 since we're also upgrading our cloud to grizzly | 22:11 |
| gabrielhurley | my hope is that it actually won't be much work | 22:11 |
| kspear | everything else looks good to me | 22:11 |
| gabrielhurley | it's one of those "if it goes right it's easy" | 22:11 |
| kspear | can we come up with some design doco so we can better coordinate? | 22:12 |
| gabrielhurley | sure. suggestions? | 22:12 |
| kspear | at least an etherpad with a description of each component and how things will fit together? | 22:13 |
| kspear | i realise some of this is still to be discovered | 22:13 |
| gabrielhurley | sounds good. create one, jot down any thoughts, and link it into the BP? | 22:13 |
| kspear | will do | 22:13 |
| david-lyle | Lin and I are interested in working on keystone v3 support as it closely relates to the system we currently use and we would like to transition to v3 | 22:14 |
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| gabrielhurley | yep. I'd love for y'all to own all of that | 22:14 |
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| gabrielhurley | I do have some concerns about the big reorganization that was in the wireframes at the summit, so don't start moving things until we can get a bit more consenus around that | 22:14 |
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| gabrielhurley | but otherwise let's follow up about how best to organize the API code and then you should be able to work more-or-less in parallel | 22:15 |
| gabrielhurley | with what I need to do to support v2 and v3 side-by-side | 22:15 |
| david-lyle | that's fine, we'll make it work in the existing layout unless we can generate some consensus | 22:16 |
| gabrielhurley | cool | 22:16 |
| gabrielhurley | so yeah, let's agree on what the interface for "switching" versions looks like, and then you can just stub in a hardcoded "use v3" and work forward from there until I get my end done | 22:16 |
| david-lyle | is that a settings level item or are we looking for an UI element? | 22:17 |
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| david-lyle | settings would be use v3 is available type setting | 22:18 |
| david-lyle | because it hits at login time too | 22:19 |
| gabrielhurley | ultimately there will be something in the openstack_dashboard.api code that will know which versions are available and hand you back the appropriate client when you call it. | 22:19 |
| gabrielhurley | it will probably get it's data from the APIs with an optional settings override | 22:20 |
| gabrielhurley | but this is all just off the top of my head | 22:20 |
| david-lyle | well work it out | 22:20 |
| gabrielhurley | yep | 22:20 |
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| gabrielhurley | For anyone else who hasn't spoken up, I encourage you to look at the remaining blueprints targeted to H1 (and the ones that aren't) and figure out what you'd like to work on. Feel free to assign them to yourself if they're unclaimed. If there are things you think are important and should be in H1 feel free to email me. | 22:21 |
| kspear | whatever happened to chunked/direct image upload? | 22:21 |
| gabrielhurley | not targeted to Havana currently 'cuz nobody's stepped up to own it | 22:21 |
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| gabrielhurley | it's a big/tough problem | 22:22 |
| gabrielhurley | and I don't want to force somebody to tackle it | 22:22 |
| kspear | yep, fair enough | 22:22 |
| gabrielhurley | if anyone *wants* it, I'm more than happy to bring it in | 22:22 |
| kspear | it'd be very nice to have | 22:22 |
| gabrielhurley | totally agreed | 22:22 |
| kspear | i might look into it later in the cycle | 22:22 |
| gabrielhurley | cool | 22:22 |
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| david-lyle | there doesn't seem to be a self assign for blueprints, is there a mechanism I'm missing? | 22:22 |
| gabrielhurley | right now there are about the same number of BPs targeted to H as we completed in G, but I'm hoping we may actually be able to do more. | 22:23 |
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| gabrielhurley | david-lyle: if you can't do it just bug me or any of the other core folks and we can assign it for you | 22:23 |
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| david-lyle | ok, thanks | 22:23 |
| gabrielhurley | launchpad has wacky permissions | 22:23 |
| lcheng | can you this to either or Dave | 22:23 |
| lcheng | https://blueprints.launchpad.net/horizon/+spec/multiple-service-endpoints | 22:23 |
| lcheng | https://blueprints.launchpad.net/horizon/+spec/login-domain-support | 22:23 |
| lcheng | https://blueprints.launchpad.net/horizon/+spec/rbac | 22:23 |
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| gabrielhurley | sure | 22:24 |
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| gabrielhurley | done. | 22:25 |
| gabrielhurley | I divided them up randomly between you two | 22:25 |
| gabrielhurley | ;-) | 22:25 |
| gabrielhurley | ooookay | 22:26 |
| lcheng | thanks! | 22:26 |
| gabrielhurley | #topic open discussion | 22:26 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "open discussion (Meeting topic: horizon)" | 22:26 | |
| gabrielhurley | Anybody got other things they're interested in talking about? | 22:26 |
| kspear | the first grizzly stable release isn't far away iirc | 22:27 |
| kspear | so if people could think about backports | 22:27 |
| kspear | and either propose reviews or tag them that'd be good | 22:27 |
| gabrielhurley | ah, that's a good point | 22:27 |
| gabrielhurley | yes | 22:27 |
| gabrielhurley | particularly some of the Load Balancer bugfixes would be great to backport | 22:28 |
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| kspear | yeah definitely | 22:28 |
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| gabrielhurley | okay, well, if anyone has other thoughts feel free to bring 'em up on the mailing list. | 22:30 |
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| gabrielhurley | good meeting folks | 22:30 |
| gabrielhurley | same time next week! | 22:30 |
| gabrielhurley | #endmeeting | 22:30 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack meetings || Development in #openstack-dev || Help in #openstack" | 22:30 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Tue Apr 23 22:30:57 2013 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 22:30 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/horizon/2013/horizon.2013-04-23-22.01.html | 22:31 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/horizon/2013/horizon.2013-04-23-22.01.txt | 22:31 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/horizon/2013/horizon.2013-04-23-22.01.log.html | 22:31 |
| lcheng | bye | 22:31 |
| david-lyle | bye | 22:31 |
| kspear | thanks gabriel! | 22:31 |
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