Thursday, 2013-02-14

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jaypipes#startmeeting qa17:00
openstackMeeting started Thu Feb 14 17:00:14 2013 UTC.  The chair is jaypipes. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.17:00
openstackUseful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.17:00
*** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: qa)"17:00
openstackThe meeting name has been set to 'qa'17:00
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jaypipesmorning tempestuous QAers.17:00
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afazekasgood morning17:00
ravikumar_hphi .17:00
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mtreinishmorning17:00
mlavallegood morning17:00
mkollaromorning17:00
timellohey17:01
davidkranzHi17:01
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jaypipesso, we've been hammering through a number of reviews this morning, which is great17:02
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jaypipespleased to see afazekas' many cleanup patches (mostly) going through. thx Attila!17:02
afazekas:)17:02
jaypipesAn announcement: mtreinish and cyeoh are now members of QA core. Congrats and thank you to them both.17:02
davidkranzIndeed.17:03
ravikumar_hpcongrats to them . They deserve it17:03
afazekas Congrats17:03
mtreinishthanks17:03
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davidkranzjaypipes: I held off on the review days thing because of expecting new members.17:03
jaypipesdavidkranz: no probs.17:03
davidkranzjaypipes: I'm not on the fence about whether we really need it.17:03
sdague<- here17:04
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davidkranz   ^^^ now17:04
jaypipesdavidkranz: think you can hammer it out today or tomorrow?17:04
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jaypipesdavidkranz: the rotation wiki page, that is.17:04
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davidkranzjaypipes: Yes.17:04
sdaguehonestly, I think that if people just set asside a little time every day, it fixes itself17:04
jaypipessdague: easier said than done, IME17:05
sdaguewe've got a policy on our team that every member should spend an hour a day on reviews17:05
davidkranzsdague: That is where I was as of this morning.17:05
sdaguejaypipes: fair, I guess I'm just used to nova patch queue size :)17:05
davidkranzjaypipes: How about we give it a try. If we are not meeting the 24-48 hour turnaround we can take measures.17:05
jaypipessdague: as much as I appreciate your team's commitment to reviews and tempest, I cannot commit to the same.17:05
jaypipessdague: I think a rotation puts some structure and expectations into the mix that are useful.17:06
jaypipesdavidkranz: sorry, give what a try? hour a day, or rotation?17:06
sdaguejaypipes: fair, though hopefully with some more +2s in the mix it will help17:06
davidkranzjaypipes: Non-rotation.17:06
jaypipessdague: absolutely.17:06
jaypipesdavidkranz: we can try it, but without assignment, I fear that it will be too easy to let others do the reviewing...17:07
davidkranzI could go either way.17:07
jaypipesdavidkranz: but I'm fine if that's what the group wants17:07
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davidkranzjaypipes: I suggest we see how it goes for the next week and then consider it again.17:08
jaypipesdavidkranz: why don't we try the "hour a day" approach for the next two weeks and discuss if we need to do a rotation after that if it's not working?17:08
jaypipesdavidkranz: doh, jinx.17:08
jaypipesdavidkranz: I think 2 weeks, with a published email today to the -dev and -qa lists saying expectation (or wish) is for an hour a day on reviews, and expectation of no more than 48 hours until an initial review.17:09
sdaguewe have a general policy though to make sure nothing gets all the way through with only IBM eyes on things, so you may see code we originate be sitting with +2s looking for someone else to give it the +A. I find it's more healthy when you make sure a broader set of eyes see things.17:09
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sdaguejaypipes: I think that's fair17:09
jaypipesok17:09
davidkranzIf we all do "hour a day" I predict the actual need will be less. But we'll see.17:09
sdagueyeh, in reality it will be less17:09
jaypipes#action davidkranz to send ML email about above expectations/wishes17:09
andreafhi I'm here too17:09
jaypipesandreaf: mornin.17:10
sdaguethe hour a day is across all projects for us, just a general guideline to make sure people don't forget about reviewing17:10
davidkranzsdague: Ah. OK.17:10
jaypipesso, on a related note to the rotation...17:10
jaypipeswe had discussed at a previous meeting that we need more subject matter experts on areas other than nova and glance.17:11
jaypipesHas anyone made any progress here? Espcially with Quantum?17:11
mlavallejaypipes: I am implementing https://blueprints.launchpad.net/tempest/+spec/quantum-basic-api17:11
mlavalleit includes 5 use cases17:11
jaypipesWe have a number of reviews for quantum stuff, including Gavin's quotas stuff that are kind of hanging around17:11
mlavallemaking very good progress17:11
davidkranzjaypipes: Dan W also told me we could pull Nachi in for reviews.17:12
sdaguemlavalle: I think the real thing we are looking for is reviewers on quantum patches from the quantum community17:12
jaypipesmlavalle: ok, good. I'd love more reviews from you and other Quantum SMEs please! :)17:12
davidkranzjaypipes: I had asked him for names.17:12
jaypipesdavidkranz: k17:12
sdaguedtroyer_zz and I basically do the same thing on devstack17:12
mlavalleI will be pushing code for 3 use cases early nexte week17:12
sdaguemake sure that a quantum person +1s things on a quantum patch for function before we touch it17:12
mlavalleand code for the other 2 use cases a few days after taht17:12
davidkranzI don't think you have to be Core in Quantum to do a tempest review as a subject "expert"17:12
sdaguedavidkranz: agreed17:13
sdagueany developer that contributes to quantum is welcomed17:13
jaypipesmlavalle: regarding Quantum, I haven't seen the full tempest suite run successfully with a quantum environment yet. Perhaps it is a good idea to hold off on new test cases/features/use cases until we get a green successful run?17:13
sdagueyeh, that would be worth while17:13
davidkranzI was glad to see some keystone v3 tests going in.17:14
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davidkranzWe should also consider ceilometer.17:14
jaypipesmlavalle: I'm referring to this job, FYI: https://jenkins.openstack.org/view/Tempest/job/gate-tempest-devstack-vm-quantum-full/17:14
jaypipesmlavalle: currently, it's not a gate, but I would really, really like it to be!17:14
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mlavallejaypipes: ok, I will take a look at it17:15
jaypipesmlavalle: first step would be to fix failures that occur, then add new use cases and API call tests, IMHO17:15
davidkranzjaypipes: +117:15
jaypipesmlavalle: awesome, I really appreciate it!17:15
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mlavallejaypipes: and reach out to you with suggestions17:15
sdaguedavidkranz: agreed, we should probably try to drum that up at summit. Make sure that core projects (which ceilo will be in havana most likely) ensure they have folks looking at tempest reviews as well17:15
sdaguemlavalle: awesome, thanks17:15
jaypipesmlavalle: you may work with sdague and dtroyer_zz on devstack-related issues with that Jenkins job. May not all be related to Tempest itself or Quantum... just FYI17:15
jaypipessdague: ++17:15
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mlavallejaypipes; ok, I will reach out to them17:16
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sdagueyeh, it might be more complicated, but feel free to ping me in #openstack-qa, I try to answer reasonably quickly17:16
mlavallejaypipes: but I will keep developing the BP. I don't want to loose momentum17:16
jaypipesmlavalle: understood. and totally fine. :)17:16
sdagueare we done with the SME discussion? I wanted to also kick around tempest scope as a discussion topic17:16
jaypipessdague: yes, I think so, unless anyone has anything more to say about that?17:17
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jaypipessdague: go for it.17:17
jaypipes#topic tempest scope17:17
*** openstack changes topic to "tempest scope (Meeting topic: qa)"17:17
sdagueok, so we've got 2 patches in the queue to open up new top level directories for tempest tests17:17
sdaguehttps://review.openstack.org/#/c/21930/17:18
sdaguehttps://review.openstack.org/#/c/20901/17:18
sdaguewhich I think are good17:18
sdagueor the general ideas are good17:18
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sdaguebut I wanted to make sure the rest of qa-core is good with tempest increasing scope17:18
jaypipessdague: yeah, not a huge fan, frankly... at least of 2193017:18
sdaguethe idea is these would be seperately runnable top level test groups, like stress is17:18
sdaguejaypipes: well, jog0 was starting with something rought17:19
jaypipessdague: 21930 isn't tests at all..17:19
jaypipessdague: tests assert things.17:19
sdaguejaypipes: correct, atm17:19
afazekasI think in tempest we should use python primary for testing17:19
jaypipessdague: those don't do anything at al...17:19
sdagueall those things I agree with, I put them in the review17:19
sdaguejaypipes: turns out, if you ran those commands, the script would fail17:19
sdaguebecause nova client throws exceptions random places17:20
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sdaguewhich is the thing that needs testing17:20
sdaguenot in the way jog0 proposed17:20
sdaguebut the idea of having a test suite for the clients seems like a good idea17:20
jaypipessdague: s/clients/CLI incantation of the clients/17:20
sdaguewhere the clients get execed, and we make sure they do the right thing, and don't stack trace17:20
davidkranzafazekas: I think I agree. I sent a message to the list last night regarding the Python novaclient issue.17:21
jaypipessdague: we already have tests that use novaclient library.17:21
afazekasI woild like to have test soute for all command , including the *-manage17:21
afazekasand it should be able to reuse existing ssh connection17:21
sdaguejaypipes: yes, this is cli testing17:21
sdaguesorry, meant to be explicit there17:21
donaldngo_hpare the clients not being tested anywhere else?17:21
davidkranzjaypipes: Isn't there a difference between having tests that use novaclient and "testing novaclient"?17:21
jaypipessdague: ya... I don't have a problem with that, per-se, I just would like it to be: a) pythonic and b) tests -- i.e. assertions17:22
davidkranzjaypipes: Coverage, e.g.17:22
sdaguejaypipes: I agree17:22
sdaguemy review comments said that :)17:22
jaypipesdavidkranz: yes, of course, no disagreement.17:22
afazekasdonaldngo_hp: devstack exercises  does some testing via bash17:22
jaypipesafazekas: right17:22
jaypipesafazekas: "testing"17:22
jaypipesafazekas: without asserting anything.17:22
sdagueright, but that's sort of accidental testing in devstack17:22
davidkranzI think the question is whether we want tempest to really test the client.17:22
sdaguebecause it's basically just sanity checking that devstack isn't totally screwed up17:23
davidkranzAnd, if so, is it the cli or Python API, or both?17:23
sdaguedavidkranz: so right now this is trying to go after a specific class of fails that have been found by manual testing17:23
afazekasIMHO cli would cover the client library17:23
sdaguewhich is the cli exploding horribly17:23
mtreinishdavidkranz: I'd say both would be useful. I think there are things not covered by the cli in the lib.17:23
sdagueand given that is a surface lots of people first experience openstack with, not exploding horribly is a nice goal17:24
davidkranzsdague: So the is really a regression test.17:24
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sdaguedavidkranz: sure...17:24
davidkranzsdague: That is fine but different than being step one towards a complete test.17:24
jaypipesI don't disagree that both CLI and client lib tests are useful.17:24
davidkranzsdague: That may have not been clear.17:25
ravikumar_hpThose CLI and client lib tests may not be gated tests17:25
sdagueok, so can we get general agreement that: 1) if they are in python 2) if they are in a seperate directory 3) if they are actually tests, it should be ok to let them in?17:25
davidkranzI'm not sure what the real value of having client tests in tempest is though. Shouldn't there be unit tests in those projects?17:26
sdagueravikumar_hp: right now it's not going to be gate17:26
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sdaguedavidkranz: a bunch of the commands can't be exercised unless there is a working openstack17:26
donaldngo_hpdavidkranz: yes I'm suprised that the CLI project repos dont have tests themselves17:26
sdaguedonaldngo_hp: they do have unit tests17:26
afazekasWe could make tempest as multi backend tool (xml,json,library,ec2, cli), (witch configurable backend), but is too big work for now. Now we could have the best benefit/cost ratio if we focusing to the cli tests in addition17:27
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sdagueafazekas: yeh, that's my thinking. I also didn't want to send these off to a new tree, because we're only just getting critical mass on reviewers on tempest, and I fear less eyes on another test effort17:28
donaldngo_hpwouldn't it be a good idea to tie the CLI functional symantic tests to the CLI repos themselves?17:28
sdaguegrenade being a good example, which is a neat idea, but stalled out in another tree17:28
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sdaguedonaldngo_hp: maybe, the infrastructure to set them up with credentials and such would then need to be duplicated out of tempest to all the clis17:29
jaypipessdague: and devstack..17:29
sdaguejaypipes: yep, and devstack17:29
sdagueit moves tempest umbrella from "testing openstack API" to "testing live openstack in various useful ways"17:30
sdaguebut I'm ok with that17:30
sdagueas long as it's easy to just execute the parts of that you want17:30
afazekas+117:30
davidkranzsdague: I think that was always part of the goal. To eventually be an acceptance test.17:30
sdaguedavidkranz: ok, cool, then this would seem in scope17:30
andreaf+1 in extending the scope / acceptance test17:31
sdaguejaypipes: you on board?17:31
jaypipessdague: yeah, I'm fine with an expanded scope in this way, just would like to see everything runnable in a consistent manner17:31
sdaguejaypipes: +117:32
cjd_sorry for the quick detour.  what time did/does the qa meeting start?17:32
sdagueI'll make sure to work with jog0 to get it there17:32
sdaguecjd_: 32 minutes ago17:32
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cjd_ok.  thanks :~\17:32
davidkranzcjd_: 17:00 UTC17:32
sdagueok, I think that topic is done, unless someone else has something on it17:32
cjd_got it.  as you were :)17:33
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donaldngo_hpwill the CLI test the latest version of the CLI?17:33
sdaguedonaldngo_hp: I think that's the intent17:33
sdaguetempest follows trunck17:34
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sdaguefollows trunk17:34
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sdagueok, next topic?17:34
davidkranzParallel testing?17:35
afazekasSKIPED tests ?17:35
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sdaguedavidkranz: on parallel testing17:35
andreaf+1 Parallel testing17:35
sdaguecyeoh is working to get a non-voting job that will enable testr for that17:35
sdagueso we can debug the final issues in qa17:35
sdaguein CI17:35
sdagueI was talking with him about it yesterday, have to figure out if the review went in yet17:36
sdaguewe'd then run testr version of tempest full on tempest project checkins for a while in non-voting to figure out what else needs fixing17:36
sdaguethere are still some fails because of state leaks between tests17:36
jaypipessorry y'all, need to hop on an emergency call... sdague, please close out the meeting when finished. thnks!17:36
sdaguejaypipes: will do17:36
sdagueso that's comming along17:37
andreafsdague: a good outcome of this exercise would be a set of guidelines on handling resources17:37
sdagueI was hoping we'd be fully lit by g-3, but looks like it might come on later17:37
sdagueandreaf: yeh, I think based on what needs fixing we'll get that17:37
sdagueplus afazekas's work on the resource allocator17:37
sdaguewhich will massively simplify things17:38
andreafsdague: I agree17:38
sdagueI think that's that on that front17:38
sdagueafazekas: you want to take on SKIPPED tests?17:38
afazekassdague: jaypipes is not  here so we will not answers anyway..17:39
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sdagueafazekas: ok17:39
sdaguefwiw, I reenabled resize tests in devstack / tempest17:39
sdagueturns out we disabled them by default17:40
sdagueand resize got broken in nova because of it17:40
sdagueso those are back in the mix now17:40
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sdagueit was I think 4 nova fixes to get it working again17:40
mtreinishafazekas: was this about the resource thing and generic_setup for the flags?17:42
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afazekasmaybe17:43
sdagueok, so other topics?17:43
sdaguewe seem to be winding down17:43
davidkranzCounting...17:43
andreafone question still about parallel execution17:44
sdagueandreaf: go for it17:44
andreafis there any guideline yet about where is the best place to deal with common resources?17:44
afazekasDoes anyone interested in systemtap scripts, for performance analysis (adding to tempest repo)?17:44
andreafwith the current setup17:44
davidkranzandreaf: common to what?17:44
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sdagueafazekas: that might be a cool option17:45
sdagueafazekas: will that work on the ubuntu kernel that's in CI?17:45
andreafcommon to all tests within a class17:45
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sdagueandreaf: so I think we're going to need to hash some of that out with lifeless at summit17:45
afazekassdague: probably, depends on the code17:45
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sdagueonce we have working tempest testr we can more easily look at where we'd get better optimizations out of testr if it behaved differently17:46
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davidkranzandreaf: That depends on whether the tests in the class are supposed to run in parallel or not.17:46
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davidkranzandreaf: If the tests are run in parallel they can't share class resources except in a "read only" way.17:47
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afazekasdavidkranz: why not ?17:48
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davidkranzafazekas: HOw can two parallel tests both poke the state of something independently?17:48
sdagueI think it will become more clear with the implementation17:48
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sdagueso I would wait for that review and runner to be out there, then we can poke on it17:49
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andreafsdague: ok I'll wait for the non gating parallel run and then dig into it17:49
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afazekasdavidkranz: They can aquire a resource from resource pool, but they cant work on the same resource at the same time17:49
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davidkranzafazekas: Of course resource pools are fine.17:50
afazekasok17:50
davidkranzafazekas: Thought I am not sure how the locking works.17:50
davidkranzafazekas: In Tempest, that is.17:50
sdagueok, so any last topics?17:51
davidkranzWe don't need to pursued that right now.17:51
sdaguehot reviews that need more eyes?17:51
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Nithyahttps://review.openstack.org/#/c/18631/17:52
NithyaThis change is abandoned.17:53
NithyaI would like to own and submit a patch17:53
Nithyais that possible?17:53
afazekasdavidkranz: most people just hope the gloabal interpreter lock save them from conflicts :), now we do not have anything for mulithread resource sharing, but it can change in the future17:54
sdagueNithya: yes, you can: review -d 18631 and build your own version from it and submit17:54
Nithyasdague: Thank you17:54
sdaguedavidkranz / afazekas: testr is process not thread based, so that won't be a concern17:54
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sdagueok, any last topics?17:57
sdague1017:57
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sdague417:57
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mlavalleHave a nice day, y'all17:57
sdagueok, let's call it a day17:57
sdaguethanks everyone17:57
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andreafthanks have a nice day / evening17:57
sdague#endmeeting17:58
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sdaguejaypipes: can you run #endmeeting17:58
sdagueI don't think I can do it because I'm not #chair17:58
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bdpayneOSSG meeting starting shortly… waiting for previous meeting chair to end that meeting18:00
bdpaynejaypipes … you around to end the meeting?18:02
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jaypipes#endmeeting18:03
*** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack meetings || Development in #openstack-dev || Help in #openstack"18:03
openstackMeeting ended Thu Feb 14 18:03:44 2013 UTC.  Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4)18:03
openstackMinutes:        http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/qa/2013/qa.2013-02-14-17.00.html18:03
openstackMinutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/qa/2013/qa.2013-02-14-17.00.txt18:03
openstackLog:            http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/qa/2013/qa.2013-02-14-17.00.log.html18:03
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bdpayne#startmeeting OpenStack Security Group18:04
openstackMeeting started Thu Feb 14 18:04:00 2013 UTC.  The chair is bdpayne. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.18:04
openstackUseful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.18:04
*** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: OpenStack Security Group)"18:04
openstackThe meeting name has been set to 'openstack_security_group'18:04
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bdpaynegood morning / evening everyone18:04
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bdpayneI'd like to get started today with an update on the storage encryption work18:04
bdpayne#topic Storage Encryption18:04
*** openstack changes topic to "Storage Encryption (Meeting topic: OpenStack Security Group)"18:04
bdpayneAnyone from Intel or JHU APL around to give an update?18:05
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lglendenyes, I'm here from APL18:05
rellerrellerThe volume encryption blue print was rejected for Grizzly release18:05
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bdpayneok, I saw some chatter about that… didn't know it was formal18:06
rellerrellerThe change was a bit too big at the last minute to make Grizzly18:06
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bdpayneyeah, I know that is frustrating… but it does make some sense18:06
bdpayneso, let's plan for how to get it into H?18:06
rellerrellerIt's understandable18:06
rellerrellerBut there is interest, and we are hopeful to make Havana18:06
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lglendenwe were encouraged to lead a design summit session specifically for the blueprint, so that is what we are planning18:07
bdpayneI think that's a good idea18:07
bdpayneare you guys moving forward with setting that up?18:07
lglendenthere will also likely be a second design session specifically for key management issues18:07
mtesauroPlease share that here if/when its setup.  I will attend.18:07
bdpayneditto18:07
rellerrellerThe dev mailing list has some chatter about how to handle cloning and snapshotting if anyone is interested in that18:07
bdpayneok, sounds good18:08
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bdpayneI think that this will give us a little more time to "get it right"18:08
bdpayneif you guys need help with coding stuff post-summit, then please make an ask here with OSSG18:09
bdpayneI suspect that there are people around that can help with pieces, if desired18:09
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bdpayneok, so I guess we can move on to some of the documentation efforts18:10
bdpayne#topic Hardening Guide and OSN18:10
*** openstack changes topic to "Hardening Guide and OSN (Meeting topic: OpenStack Security Group)"18:10
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bdpaynethe LXC OSN has been a slow process ;-)18:11
bdpayneRob and I have been working to coordinate the release of the document and make it smoother in the future18:11
bdpayneI think that we're about there and this will roll more smoothly next time18:11
mtesauroLXC OSN == what?18:11
bdpaynethe security note on using LXC18:12
bdpaynesorry, too man acronyms18:12
bdpaynes/man/many/18:12
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mtesauroRoger.  I've got it now.18:12
bdpayneok18:12
bdpayneso… looking forward, I encourage everyone here to bring forward ideas for future security notes18:12
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bdpaynebasically, if there's some brief security guidance that we can provide to help people do things better from a security viewpoint, then it would be nice to share18:13
bdpayneanything come to mind right now?18:13
noslzzpi will have some additions shortly..18:13
bdpaynegreat, thanks18:14
bdpayne#action We can all think of ideas for more security notes18:14
bdpayneNow, turning to the hardening guide18:14
bdpayneNot much work has happened on that, unfortunately18:14
bdpayneI am happy to put in some cycles, but would like to get more of the community involved as well18:15
bdpayneIs there anyone that would like to help with that effort?18:15
bdpayneOr any suggestions for pushing that forward?18:15
rellerrellerAPL can provide suggestions.  We were swamped trying to get into Grizzly.18:16
noslzzpunfortunately, I don't know Tex so getting setup with that has been a blocker.18:16
rellerrellerWe can have comments by next week18:16
bdpaynerellerreller thanks18:16
bdpayneRe Tex… please don't let that block you18:16
bdpayneyou can submit stuff in plain text and I'll happily drop it into tex files18:17
bdpaynethe delta is very small anyway18:17
noslzzproger.18:17
bdpayneand the outline is actually in a plain text file too18:17
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bdpayneand, I'm happy to teach people LaTeX ;-)18:17
noslzzp;)18:17
bdpaynebut, seriously… I can drop in plain text contributions very easily18:17
noslzzpgotcha.. i'll move forward with plain text for now..18:18
bdpaynewell… as always, please touch base with me if you'd like to help… I'd love to see some more momentum there18:18
lglendenare you looking mainly for comments on the outline that is in place, or contributions for fleshed out sections (or both?)18:18
bdpayne#action Ramp up work on hardening guide18:18
bdpayneboth would be great18:18
lglendenokay18:19
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bdpayneI don't expect the outline to change too much as I haven't gotten much feedback on it18:19
bdpayneso writing text is low risk18:19
bdpaynealso, if anyone like drawing technical diagrams… I'd love to hear from you :-)18:20
bdpayneok… moving onward18:20
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bdpayne#topic OSSG and Core Projects18:20
*** openstack changes topic to "OSSG and Core Projects (Meeting topic: OpenStack Security Group)"18:20
bdpayneAt the summit last fall, I expressive my desire to get OSSG tightly integrated into the core projects18:21
bdpaynethe idea is to have people on OSSG working on the core projects18:21
bdpayneand that those people could bring security concerns back to the group for deeper analysis, design, and improvement18:21
bdpayneI would love to start seeing this happen18:22
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bdpayneI think that the first step is to identify who we have in OSSG that is already tracking core projects18:22
bdpayneDoes anyone fit that bill?18:22
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bdpayneOk… the next question, who would *like* to get integrated into a core project?18:23
bdpaynehrm18:23
noslzzpI'm too new. :)18:24
bdpayneOk, I may need to approach this a little differently18:24
bdpayneI think that the plan will be to identify people already on the core projects that could be good and invite them to work with OSSG18:24
bdpayne#action Work with PTLs to get tighter integration between OSSG and core projects18:25
bdpayne#topic Discussion18:25
*** openstack changes topic to "Discussion (Meeting topic: OpenStack Security Group)"18:25
bdpayneIt's been quiet today… anything else on people's minds?18:25
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bdpayne#action All meeting attendees to drink coffee before next meeting :-)18:26
lglendenare there any particular plans for OSSG at the next summit?18:27
bdpaynea few18:27
bdpayneRob and I are planning to submit a talk to give an update on OSSG work18:27
bdpayneI've been debating setting up a design session to get discussion going around integrating OSSG and security thinking into the core projects (still need to flush that out)18:28
bdpayneAnd I'd love to get the group together informally at some point just so we can meet f2f… perhaps over a meal18:28
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bdpayneI'm, of course, open to other ideas too!18:28
lglendenthose all sound good to me18:29
mtesauroAbsolutely.  f2f is a great way to get some serious momentum18:29
rellerrellerI concur18:29
bdpaynegreat, looking forward to it18:29
bdpaynethanks everyone… til next time...18:29
bdpayne#endmeeting18:30
*** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack meetings || Development in #openstack-dev || Help in #openstack"18:30
openstackMeeting ended Thu Feb 14 18:30:01 2013 UTC.  Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4)18:30
openstackMinutes:        http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/openstack_security_group/2013/openstack_security_group.2013-02-14-18.04.html18:30
openstackMinutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/openstack_security_group/2013/openstack_security_group.2013-02-14-18.04.txt18:30
openstackLog:            http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/openstack_security_group/2013/openstack_security_group.2013-02-14-18.04.log.html18:30
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mtesauroLater.18:30
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lifelesssdague: please submit a tech session on it19:15
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dansmithvishy: russellb ?21:01
russellbhi21:01
russellbhappy thursday21:01
* russellb has missed the last couple of these ...21:01
hemnahey21:01
sdagueo/21:01
kmartinhello21:02
xyanghi21:02
krtayloro/21:02
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russellbvishy: around?21:02
russellblet's wait a couple minutes for vishy ...21:02
vishyyup21:02
russellbyay21:02
russellb#startmeeting nova21:02
openstackMeeting started Thu Feb 14 21:02:42 2013 UTC.  The chair is russellb. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.21:02
openstackUseful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.21:02
*** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: nova)"21:02
openstackThe meeting name has been set to 'nova'21:02
russellb#chair vishy21:02
openstackCurrent chairs: russellb vishy21:02
russellb#link http://wiki.openstack.org/Meetings/Nova21:03
russellbcouple of topics, let's hit grizzly-3 really quick though21:03
russellb#topic grizzly-321:03
*** openstack changes topic to "grizzly-3 (Meeting topic: nova)"21:03
russellb#link https://launchpad.net/nova/+milestone/grizzly-321:03
russellbWe removed a number of blueprints this week for stuff that came in too late, didn't have code yet, etc21:04
kmartinreviews on the FC nova changes needed https://review.openstack.org/#/c/19992/21:04
russellbi suppose we need to be trying to prioritize our reviews for the next couple weeks on these features ready for review21:04
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russellbkmartin: yep, it's on the big list of "needs code review" blueprints21:05
sdagueso when are we properly in feature freeze?21:05
vishy21st21:05
russellbi thought it was 2 weeks, eep21:05
xyangI hope the FC nova changes get merged as soon as possible as we are also working  on a FC Cinder driver that depends on it21:05
vishywell realistically the 19th21:05
russellb#link http://wiki.openstack.org/GrizzlyReleaseSchedule21:05
russellbeven less time than i thought21:05
kmartinso what is the process if the review is not completed by the 21st, is the feature pushed out to Havana?21:05
russellbdefinitely lots of review work to do21:06
kmartinyeah21:06
russellbkmartin: we can consider feature freeze exceptions, but honestly we had too many of those last year and we need to be strict about it IMO21:06
sdagueright, ok, so if 19th is the freeze, we probably need to start figuring out what blueprints we really want for grizzly, and move the rest out21:06
russellbs/last year/last release/21:06
sdague#link http://status.openstack.org/release/21:07
sdaguethat's actually a really nice view21:07
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sdagueeven if it shows all the projects21:07
russellbsdague: start from the top and see how much we can review?  heh21:07
sdagueyeh, basically :)21:07
russellbanything else on g3 before we jump into these specific topics?21:08
russellb#topic network adapter hotplug bp21:08
*** openstack changes topic to "network adapter hotplug bp (Meeting topic: nova)"21:08
sdaguewell, vishy, any guidance on the bps you want to make sure land?21:08
russellbdansmith: this you?21:08
dansmithrussellb: yeah21:08
dansmithdoude: round?21:08
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doudeyes21:09
dansmithwell, basically, it was abandoned by the original author in august,21:09
dansmithdoude made a single push against it this month, and has some more changes since then21:09
dansmithvishy asked me to pick it up and try to make it work21:09
dansmithwe've made some progress, and I significantly refactored how the detach case works21:09
doudeyes and I asked yaguang if can rebase it21:09
dansmithdoude: the question I guess is who is going to drive this? if you're going to do it, then I'll back off21:10
dansmithotherwise I can integrate your changes and keep running with it21:10
dansmithjust don't want to be duplicating effort21:10
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russellbdoude: thoughts?21:11
doudedansmith: Okay. As you want. It depends if you need help and if you have enough time21:12
dansmithdoude: I'm happy to go do it, and I think it's pretty close.. I've got it updated for the recent libvirt changes (vif models) as well21:12
dansmithso I think I can do it, I just don't want to take it away from you if you really want to do it21:13
doudeI followed your progress21:13
dansmithif you're okay with it, I'll pull what I can from your latest changes that you pushed yesterday and integrate them21:13
doudedansmith: Okay, no problem21:13
dansmithokay21:13
russellbdoude: if dansmith takes it, your review would be appreciated of course, and to help point out anything he may miss21:13
doudeI made some progress on the sample API tests21:13
dansmithdoude: yes, that's what I'm going to take for sure :)21:14
doudeI can merge them to your branch21:14
dansmithrussellb: me? miss something?21:14
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dansmithdoude: let me do it, if that's okay, since we changed the extension name slightly and I have other changes yet to be merged21:14
russellbdansmith: as incredibly unlikely as it may be :)21:14
doudeOkay, that what I made21:15
dansmithrussellb: heh21:15
dansmithokay, so I think we're good then21:15
russellbgreat21:15
russellb#topic nova-conductor21:15
*** openstack changes topic to "nova-conductor (Meeting topic: nova)"21:15
russellbso this discussion started just a while ago in -nova21:15
dansmithheh, I guess this meeting is "messes dansmith made"21:15
russellbdansmith: ha, i think i share any blame on this one21:16
dansmithgood :)21:16
dansmithcomstud: around?21:16
comstudyeah, notfeeling so hot, but here21:16
* devananda waves from the back of the room21:16
dansmithcomstud: so, are you feeling like we need to default to local conductor based on the db stuff you're hitting?21:16
dansmithit seems to me like you're making gains that outweigh the hits taken by going to conductor in the first place,21:16
dansmithso I'm not sure that it's necessary to disable "real" conductor for grizzly21:17
comstudi'm not sure... it'll be fine for small deployments21:17
comstudi mean, conductor wil21:17
comstudl21:17
dansmithbut obviously we should if it'll be a problem21:17
comstudbut for larger installs, there'll be issues21:17
dansmithcomstud: even with your db changes and plenty of conductor instances?21:17
devanandacomstud: small is relative. any idea what order of magnitute of compute-per-conductor it takes to have problems?21:17
comstudwell21:18
russellblike, as many conductor instances as api instances perhaps ... just thinking about how it might be deployed21:18
comstudmysqldb implementations for some things are taking a bit longer than expected21:18
comstudand i'm not sure how well-received the code will be...21:18
comstudbut21:18
vishycomstud: i like jog0's idea of a separate backend that can fallback to the sqlalchemy for unimplemented functions21:19
comstudI cannot get thread pooling to work with sqlalchemy due to bugs in eventlet.21:19
vishythen it can just be experimental21:19
comstudI can get it to work with mysqldb... but I have to patch our logging because it uses a lock that's brokenw ith eventlet tpool21:19
comstudvishy: Yeah, that's what we're working on21:20
vishyassuming we can figure out a way to not double up every connection21:20
comstudwe have instance_get and bw_usage_update instance_destroy all working21:20
comstudfrom the limited testing I've done21:20
comstudinstance_update is almost done..21:20
sdaguecomstud: any idea what this does to our test matrix?21:20
comstudi'm going to start throwing up some reviews for the framework21:20
sdagueis that just changing the api calls for those in main, or does it have the old version as well?21:20
comstudnot sure I understand21:21
russellbso it sounds like this is separate from conductor ... right?21:21
russellbjust to be clear.21:21
comstudit's an alternate IMPL in db/api21:21
comstudnova/db/mysqldb/*21:21
sdaguecomstud: right, that's my concern21:21
ewindischcomstud: fyi - let me know if you need help with eventlet fixes.21:21
dansmiththat's what I'm trying to figure out.. is it really only a problem with conductor, or just only noticeable?21:21
russellbthe db being slow, and usage of nova-conductor and separate, sort of related issues.21:21
comstudthe mysqldb code itself falls back to sqlalchemy21:21
sdaguebecause it means that we need to light another tempest full gate if we have another db path21:21
comstudewindisch: sure21:22
comstudsdague: Yeah, I know.. it really should be tested w/ tempest, etc21:22
devanandadansmith: it's a problem with sqlalchemy+eventlet, iiuc, which conductor makes much more painful21:22
comstudI'll try to get a review up for the framework by tomorrow21:22
comstudalthough21:22
sdaguecomstud: so is this not fixable in db/sqlalchemy if you change the apis to not use the models, but use sqlalchemy low level instead?21:23
comstudhttps://github.com/comstud/nova/tree/bp/db-mysqldb-impl21:23
comstudif you ignore all of the ugly commits in that :)21:23
comstud#link https://github.com/comstud/nova/tree/bp/db-mysqldb-impl21:23
ewindischcomstud: remember you need to base that off oslo-incubator now.21:24
comstudyup i know21:24
comstudthere's only a few changes to openstack/common in there21:24
sdaguecomstud: that stuff totally scares me from an sql injection direction as well21:24
comstudmostly to patch the logging.21:24
comstudsdague: which part?21:24
comstudOh21:24
sdaguethe way the query building is happening21:24
sdagueusing python string formating to build queries21:25
comstudYeah, that's how mysqldb works21:25
belliottsdague: the args are not getting placed into the sql directly21:25
comstudit wraps '' around strings though21:25
belliottsdague: should be ok injection wise unless we missed something21:25
comstudIt's probably not clear from initial examination21:26
sdaguecan you not do some parameterized queries?21:26
vishyso i guess the overarching issue is this isn't going to be done for grizzly21:26
comstudbut queries to mysqldb end up being execute("%(fooo)s ", kwargs)21:26
comstudand mysqldb turns the kwarg values into strings, etc for you21:27
vishyso do we need to do anything for grizzly21:27
comstud'... .'21:27
comstudIt certainly won't be 'done'21:27
vishysounds like we should do some load testing and see what the limits of conductor are21:27
comstudI think we can have a few working queries in mysqldb... the most important ones21:27
dansmithcomstud: is there any chance that we could get some pre-production testing on real conductor21:27
vishyand decide whether to change the default.21:27
comstudvishy: +121:27
dansmithto prove it's too much of a problem to be on by default?21:27
ewindischsdague: I think mysql-python does parameterized queries that *look* like python string formatting21:27
comstuddansmith: Not by me21:27
comstudewindisch: Correct21:28
devananda++ to load testing and setting a good default for conductor21:28
comstuddansmith: I definitely don't have the resources to load test nova-conductor myself21:28
sdagueewindisch: ok, I'd have to educate myself on that one, new ground, just bringing my old sql safety hat on21:28
ewindischsdague: appreciate the caution, I share it :)21:28
dansmithcomstud: neither do I :(21:28
sdaguecomstud: do we know conductor is a problem in practice, or just in theory?21:29
comstuddansmith: We have some really ugly scripts that load test stand-alone, though, which kind of mimics the behavior21:29
comstudsdague: so, global nova-cells acts like nova-conductor21:29
comstudin that it takes a shitload of stuff off a queue and does DB queries21:29
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comstudAnd it has a huge problem in practive given enough load.21:30
comstudit all depends on how large your deployment is21:30
dansmithso,21:30
dansmithwhat's the ratio of that to compute nodes,21:30
comstudWe have a large enough deployment so far that global nova-cells is having a hard time keeping up21:30
dansmithcompared to what we might guess the conductor one would be?21:30
russellbcan you run multiple cells services?21:31
russellbor rather, do you?21:31
comstudrussellb: almost.. i think there's a couple of races I've not solved yet21:31
russellbok21:31
comstudthe trick is..21:31
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comstudthe order of the DB calls21:31
comstudthis is not really a problem w/ conductor21:31
comstudthey're all rpc.calls21:31
comstudvs casts21:32
comstudso you should be able to set up multiple nova-conductors without problem21:32
comstudthe question is... how many do you need?21:32
comstudI suspect nova-conductor might be okay to enable in grizzly21:32
comstudAnd if you run into load problems, you set up more21:32
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dansmithand if all fails, go to local mode21:32
comstudload problems == the nova-conductor queue backing up21:32
russellbthat was our hope anyway ...21:32
dansmithI just fear we'll never get the data if we don't have it on by default21:33
comstudyeah21:33
dansmithwith some good deployment docs21:33
comstudpersonally, I'm fine with enabling it.21:33
comstudif it's broken, there's an easy work around21:33
dansmithlarge installs will tweak a ton anyway21:33
belliottagreed, turn it on.  we need to know21:33
comstudReally this is a separate issue: sqlalchemy just sucks balls performance wise... :)21:34
russellbneed to write up some guidance on deploying conductor though21:34
russellbso people know what to watch out for, and that they may need to run multiple instances of it (like other services)21:34
comstudWe have a really horrible problem with our DB code, also... We're joining way too much stuff... most of the time the data is not needed.21:35
russellbcomstud: but sqla sucking balls amplifies the conductor concern, so i see how they're related21:35
russellbjoin all the things!21:35
comstudWe seem to be join-loading security_groups and security_groups.rules on every instance get!21:35
comstudSo far I cannot find where we use 'rules' when you start from an instance model.21:35
comstudso I think that's a join that can be removed21:35
comstudBut even when I join all of that in manually formed queries... things are still much faster than using sqlalchemy21:36
russellbmay have been no-db-messaging inspired ...21:36
comstudanyway, i digress.21:36
dansmithwell,21:36
dansmithit's no-db-primitives or whatever too21:36
russellbjoin all the things so it doesn't have to be looked up later21:36
dansmithyou can't do that without the join21:36
dansmithrussellb: 'because it can't' is more accurate21:36
comstudYou can query for security groups and rules separately though21:36
russellbcomstud: *nod*21:36
dansmithcomstud: yes21:37
comstudwhen needed.21:37
russellbjust identifying likely history for why it's there21:37
comstudevery instance delete pulls them in which is a huge waste.21:37
comstudyeah21:37
* beagles makes note to revisit apparently crazy db api behavior21:37
comstudanyway :)21:37
beaglescall it morbid interest21:37
dansmithwell, maybe we also try to remove some backrefs as part of this going forward21:37
russellbbeagles: :-)21:37
comstudyes, there's a number of backrefs that need to go away21:38
dansmithpost-G I mean21:38
comstudwhen you joinload security groups21:38
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comstudyou have instance['security_groups'] and each one has ['instances']21:38
dansmithdear god21:38
comstudi'm sure all of this processing sql-a does contributes to its slowness.21:39
russellbouch21:39
beagleswow21:39
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comstudwell21:39
comstudit doesn't have *ALL* instances in ['instances']21:39
comstudit's not as bad as it sounds21:39
comstudbut whatever instances were queried will be in there21:40
russellball instances that use that security group?21:40
russellbor?21:40
comstudno21:40
comstudinstnaces that were queried21:40
dansmithah, okay21:40
dansmithstill, it's busywork21:40
comstudAFAIK21:40
comstudbut21:40
comstudinstance_get_all() is nasty :)21:40
comstudmy mysqldb query is about 5s for 50K entries... 12s for sqlalchemy21:41
comstudit populates a model similar to sql-a, but it has no backrefs.21:41
devanandaugh, why are you every pulling 50k records from the db?21:41
devananda*ever21:41
comstudFor load testing21:41
comstud:)21:41
comstudthat's al21:41
devanandaaah :)21:41
sdagueyeh, be careful of the micro benchmarks though :)21:41
comstudsure21:41
sdagueso if we are done on conductor, a related db question, is how much of the db blueprints do we expect / think are safe, to still land21:42
sdagueas there are still a bunch outstanding21:42
comstudif any one missed my instance_destroy() test..21:42
comstudit took 20 minutes for 50K instances with sql-a21:42
comstudlol21:42
comstudi got it to like 40s with mysqldb + thread pooling21:43
russellb#topic db21:43
*** openstack changes topic to "db (Meeting topic: nova)"21:43
boris-42omg…..21:43
russellbboris-42 wanted to talk about his db-unique-keys blueprint21:43
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comstudanyway, I could complian forever about this.. let's move on21:43
comstud;)21:43
boris-42;)21:43
boris-42Ok. I am working on db-unique-keys and I haven't enough time to do all job around..21:44
sdagueI think the one remaining concern I have on db-unique-keys is the behavior in turning on a UC in a migration. As the initial patches would fail in the migration if the UC couldn't be applied, but it seems bad form to leave folks stuck in the middle of a migration chain.21:44
comstud+100021:45
boris-42I finished main part of this BP (provide creating real UC) and finished work around DBDuplicatedEntry21:45
boris-42DBDuplicateEntryError=)21:45
dansmithsdague: makes conductor look better though :)21:45
sdagueheh21:45
comstudyou can have the migration resolve duplicates and remove them21:45
* sdague thinks dansmith just wants off the hook21:45
devanandare the db-session-cleanup bp, i've been completely focused on other things and wont get around to the cleaning up the remaining bits of that :(21:45
sdaguecomstud: yeh, that's my pov21:45
sdagueI just wanted to make sure that was shared21:46
comstudi was going to add one for bw_usage_caches21:46
sdagueso we can shepard that through21:46
comstudstart_period+uuid+mac needs to be unique21:46
russellbdevananda: ok i'll bump it from g then21:46
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devanandasdague: for applying a UX during a migration, could there be a query to check that it is, in fact, safe to apply?21:46
sdagueas long as we are consistent in believing that the right thing to do is remove the dups, I'm good21:46
comstudif we're currently doing .first() queries on those things21:46
comstudthere's no point in keeping dups21:47
devanandawell21:47
sdaguedevananda: I guess, except in the middle of a db-sync you might be trying to apply all 5021:47
devanandaafaict, .first() is not ordered anywhere21:47
sdagueand exactly how would you test21:47
comstudyeah, well, what I meant was..21:47
comstudif we only grab 121:47
devanandaso which one is returned is up to the db to pick ... however it wants21:47
boris-42Hmm I want to create generic method that will drop all duplicates except last21:47
boris-42is it ok?21:47
comstudremove the dupes21:47
sdagueyeh, I think we just need to put some disclaimer21:47
sdagueboris-42: yes, I think that's the right thing to do21:47
comstudboris-42: i think21:47
comstudyes21:47
sdagueboris-42: and I know you were already working in that direction21:48
sdaguejust wanted to confirm with everyone else here that it's the approach we're all good with21:48
boris-42Ok. I will do that.21:48
sdagueand we should put a big statement in release notes about the fact that the migrations remove duplicates21:48
sdagueso people should ensure to backup before upgrade21:49
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boris-42Ok. I only hope that I will have enough time.21:49
devanandamight be good to also log when the migration deletes duplicates21:49
devanandaie, print the table name and row id21:49
jog0+1  to removing dups21:49
sdaguedevananda: +1, I like that21:49
comstudyes21:49
sdagueboris-42: can you add logging to the duplicate remover21:49
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boris-42Yes it is possible in my implementation21:50
sdagueboris-42: ok, cool, I'll help review this one and try to help get it in21:51
boris-42I found not so optimal solution. (there will be a lot of queries) but I think it is not so important for migration scripts?21:51
sdagueboris-42: yeh, that's probably ok. Let's get it in a review and have people have a look21:51
boris-42Ok I hope it will be finished on saturday (or probably tomorrow)21:51
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sdaguecomstud: you able to stay on top of this review as well?21:52
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sdaguewould be good to have a couple dedicated folks to help it move21:52
comstudwhich one?21:52
comstuddup keys?21:52
comstudsure21:52
sdagueyep21:52
comstudjust add me to the review21:52
russellbhow about db-archiving, you guys think that one can make it?21:53
comstudi'll *try* to keep up... i've been ignoring a lot of shit this week21:53
russellbsounds like it was pretty close from talking to dripton earlier today21:53
sdaguerussellb: yeh, that's real close21:53
russellbawesome21:53
boris-42I think it is ready21:53
sdaguejust needs a little test enhancement from my perspective21:53
sdaguehe landed another review21:53
sdagueI haven't looked yet21:53
sdaguemight be good now21:53
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driptonsdague: I did a bunch of test tweaks after your review.21:53
boris-42It could be better21:53
sdaguedripton: great21:53
sdagueI'll take another look21:54
devanandamind if I jump in re: baremetal for the last few minutes?21:54
boris-42some performance optimization to avoid getting all rows.21:54
boris-42Ok.21:54
russellbthere's a db meeting after this in theory if folks want to cover that some more21:54
russellb#topic baremetal21:55
*** openstack changes topic to "baremetal (Meeting topic: nova)"21:55
sdagueboris-42: we could handle that as a bug after feature freeze21:55
russellbdevananda: go for it21:55
devanandaiirc, after the last nova meeting we agreed that the initial baremetal bp was implemented21:55
russellb'tis marked that way21:55
devanandai've been hammering on bugs all week, and a few things that kinda border bugs21:55
devanandaie, where baremtal cant' do things other hypervisors can21:56
devanandathere's a bunch of patches up now that I'd _really_ like to land ;)21:56
russellbheh, lots of patches lots of people would like to land.21:56
krtaylor+121:56
dansmithrussellb: but he _really_ wants them :)21:57
devanandahehe :)21:57
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russellboh well that changes everything :-p21:57
russellbdevananda: anything you need beyong review bandwidth?21:57
devanandafwiw, baremetal is really fragile right now. it works until you sneeze ... then you have to restack21:57
russellbhonestly if the patches are self contained in baremetal land, we can probably breeze them through21:57
devanandathese bugs go a good way towards fixing that21:57
devanandathey are. one of them changes how nova identifies baremetal nodes -- the hypervisor_hostname / nodename changes from an int to a uuid21:58
dansmithdevananda: this is improve-baremetal-deply?21:58
dansmither, deploy21:58
devanandabut no nova code actually changes21:58
devanandadansmith: yes21:58
devanandaalso there are 3 baremetal db migrations21:58
devanandaso i added a new test_baremetal_migrations.py file21:58
devanandaagain though, basically self contained21:58
sdaguedevananda: this just a patch stream? or hanging off a blueprint21:59
devanandasdague: patch stream with many bug ##s in the commit messages21:59
sdagueok, gotcha22:00
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russellbwell, out of time it seems22:00
russellbseems worth mentioning again that featurefreeze is feb 1922:01
russellbreview ALL THE THINGS22:01
russellb#endmeeting22:01
*** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack meetings || Development in #openstack-dev || Help in #openstack"22:01
openstackMeeting ended Thu Feb 14 22:01:23 2013 UTC.  Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4)22:01
openstackMinutes:        http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/nova/2013/nova.2013-02-14-21.02.html22:01
openstackMinutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/nova/2013/nova.2013-02-14-21.02.txt22:01
openstackLog:            http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/nova/2013/nova.2013-02-14-21.02.log.html22:01
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