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| jgriffith | looks like folks are ready to go? | 16:00 |
|---|---|---|
| jgriffith | #startmeeting cinder | 16:00 |
| openstack | Meeting started Wed Nov 7 16:00:31 2012 UTC. The chair is jgriffith. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 16:00 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 16:00 |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'cinder' | 16:00 |
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| jgriffith | winston-d: rongze_ around? | 16:00 |
| jgriffith | rnirmal: creiht | 16:01 |
| winston-d | jgriffith, should be, let me check | 16:01 |
| rongze_ | hi | 16:01 |
| rongze_ | no need check | 16:01 |
| jgriffith | rongze_: :) | 16:01 |
| creiht | howdy | 16:01 |
| jgriffith | creiht: hey there! | 16:02 |
| j_king | hello | 16:02 |
| jgriffith | j_king: howdy | 16:02 |
| jgriffith | alright, we're sure to have some stragglers but... | 16:02 |
| jgriffith | let's get started | 16:02 |
| jgriffith | #topic gate tests | 16:02 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "gate tests" | 16:02 | |
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| jgriffith | For those that didn't notice the past few days | 16:03 |
| jgriffith | We had a non-deterministic failure in Cinder | 16:03 |
| jgriffith | 401 error when talking to the client | 16:03 |
| jgriffith | Good news https://review.openstack.org/#/c/15541/ | 16:04 |
| jgriffith | I went down few rat hold with our old friend the zero out on delete :) | 16:04 |
| jgriffith | Which brings me to the point | 16:04 |
| jgriffith | Currently what's in the code regarding the secure erase: | 16:04 |
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| jgriffith | 1. A secure_delete FLAG was added defaulting to True | 16:05 |
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| jgriffith | 2. Gate configs were changed to set the flag to False | 16:05 |
| jgriffith | 3. I dropped the dm_mapper(remove) call (this was the cause of the IO errors in kern.log) | 16:05 |
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| jgriffith | I'm not crazy about leaving the devstack gate configured the way it is right now | 16:06 |
| jgriffith | but wanted thoughts from others? | 16:06 |
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| jgriffith | am I being paranoid? | 16:06 |
| winston-d | i'm fine | 16:06 |
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| jgriffith | The other side of it is I think I'm going to implement that differently anyway | 16:07 |
| jgriffith | Either a simple "cp /dev/zero /dev/mapper/d-n" or maybe something more sophisticated | 16:07 |
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| jgriffith | Like snapshot /dev/mapper/zero | 16:07 |
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| jgriffith | (on volume create) | 16:07 |
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| jgriffith | If anybody has any strong opinions/concerns lemme know | 16:08 |
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| jgriffith | Or if you have a *better* idea | 16:08 |
| jgriffith | #topic blueprint targetting | 16:08 |
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| jgriffith | I've been going through the bp's: https://blueprints.launchpad.net/cinder | 16:09 |
| jgriffith | talked with rongze_ and winston-d last night on a couple | 16:09 |
| jgriffith | but wanted to get some more feedback on the Grizzly ones | 16:09 |
| jgriffith | I'm proposing dropping shared-volume https://blueprints.launchpad.net/cinder/+spec/shared-volume | 16:10 |
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| winston-d | agree | 16:10 |
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| j_king | indeed | 16:10 |
| jgriffith | It would be a nice feature but spanning it across multiple compute nodes would be a problem | 16:10 |
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| jgriffith | particularly since alot of targets don't support multi-initiator | 16:11 |
| jdurgin1 | jgriffith: it can actually be very useful for sharing a large data set among many nodes (read-only) | 16:11 |
| jgriffith | Ok... so if no objections, I'm going to drop that one | 16:11 |
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| jgriffith | jdurgin1: agreed, completely | 16:11 |
| jgriffith | jdurgin1: but for the iscsi case it's a bit of an issue to implement | 16:11 |
| jdurgin1 | I don't mind dropping it for grizzly if no one's interested in it | 16:12 |
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| jgriffith | jdurgin1: I'd like to see it, just priority wise, not sure | 16:12 |
| jdurgin1 | yeah, that makes sense | 16:12 |
| jgriffith | jdurgin1: So I'll drop it from Grizz, and if we can get it great | 16:13 |
| creiht | jgriffith: yeah I'm fine with that | 16:13 |
| jgriffith | cool | 16:13 |
| rongze_ | I agree | 16:13 |
| jgriffith | The hard one: https://blueprints.launchpad.net/cinder/+spec/efficient-vm-boot-from-volume | 16:13 |
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| jgriffith | I'd really like to get something concrete on this one | 16:14 |
| jgriffith | the image read/write features get us part way there | 16:14 |
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| jgriffith | but we need to put some thought into how we can deal with the whole image transfer/caching etc | 16:15 |
| jgriffith | I'm thinking Island may help with this? | 16:15 |
| rongze_ | It need tack a snapshot? | 16:15 |
| dtynan | we did some stuff on this for QCOW bootable volumes, but it's still not particularly fast. | 16:15 |
| creiht | jgriffith: how much of that is backend dependent? | 16:16 |
| jgriffith | creiht: That's kind of a problem actually | 16:16 |
| jdurgin1 | I'm still confused about what this blueprint is proposing to implement | 16:16 |
| winston-d | it depends on glance as well | 16:16 |
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| jgriffith | jdurgin1: yeah, I think the first step is to clean that up | 16:16 |
| winston-d | jdurgin1, me too | 16:16 |
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| jgriffith | jdurgin1: The way I've interpretted it is: | 16:17 |
| jgriffith | Allows you to use the same back-end for glance as for your instance_storage | 16:17 |
| winston-d | Vincent is not here | 16:17 |
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| jgriffith | so if a back-end can do things like fast cloning etc etc you can take advantage of it | 16:17 |
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| jgriffith | but there's some other things that folks brought up at the summit that they'd like to see | 16:18 |
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| jgriffith | Unfortunately NONE of them really articulated the problem they were trying to solve | 16:18 |
| creiht | jgriffith: also, aren't there similar issues for local storage? | 16:18 |
| jdurgin1 | perhaps someone could write up a specification for that blueprint? | 16:19 |
| winston-d | creiht, i think so | 16:19 |
| jgriffith | creiht: which issues? | 16:19 |
| jgriffith | You mean the cross node problem? | 16:19 |
| jgriffith | Or you mean solve it for local storage as well? | 16:19 |
| creiht | the having to load images slowly to boot an instance | 16:19 |
| winston-d | no, compute node have to copy image from glance to local disk | 16:19 |
| jgriffith | creiht: yes | 16:19 |
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| jgriffith | creiht: sorry, was just using the back-ends as an example | 16:20 |
| jgriffith | creiht: That's actually the case that received the most attention at the summit | 16:20 |
| creiht | yeah | 16:20 |
| jgriffith | creiht: and that's where i wonder if Island might have some ideas we can use | 16:21 |
| creiht | cool | 16:21 |
| jgriffith | sounds like we're all in the same boat on this blueprint.... needs some detail/direction | 16:21 |
| winston-d | how did you do it in the solidfire presentation? i remember you were using solidfire for instance storage/glance as well as cinder back-end | 16:21 |
| jgriffith | I'll see what I can do for that, and I think I'll end up targetting G3 | 16:21 |
| rongze_ | cool | 16:22 |
| jgriffith | winston-d: a little bit of hacking :) | 16:22 |
| jgriffith | winston-d: It wouldn't fit the *general* case though | 16:22 |
| jgriffith | winston-d: It was specific for us | 16:22 |
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| winston-d | jgriffith, ok | 16:22 |
| jgriffith | winston-d: Really we had the same problem with sucking images out of glance etc | 16:23 |
| jgriffith | winston-d: But we use an SF volume for instance_path | 16:23 |
| jgriffith | winston-d: our internals then do some cooll stuff to optimize... but anyway | 16:23 |
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| winston-d | as long as nova/cinder has to talk to glance via api to get image, there should be a new API sort of stuff to allow nova/cinder to figure out what storage glance is using. | 16:24 |
| jgriffith | Ok, I'll work on flushinng that bp out a bit | 16:24 |
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| jdurgin1 | winston-d: that was added in Folsom, it's how the rbd cloning to volume works in Folsom | 16:24 |
| jgriffith | jdurgin1: +1 | 16:24 |
| jgriffith | so in my view that was a first step | 16:25 |
| winston-d | jdurgin1, sorry i missed that. mind give me pointer? | 16:25 |
| jgriffith | I think we can exploit that going forward | 16:25 |
| winston-d | jgriffith, yes, please | 16:25 |
| jgriffith | The only other two that we should probably talk about | 16:26 |
| jdurgin1 | #link https://blueprints.launchpad.net/glance/+spec/api-v2-store-access | 16:26 |
| jgriffith | iscsi-chap and multi-backend | 16:26 |
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| jdurgin1 | #link https://blueprints.launchpad.net/cinder/+spec/effecient-volumes-from-images | 16:27 |
| dtynan | I'd also like to mention the Glance meta one. | 16:27 |
| dtynan | https://blueprints.launchpad.net/cinder/+spec/retain-glance-metadata-for-billing | 16:27 |
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| jgriffith | dtynan: ahh yes | 16:28 |
| dtynan | we've implemented that in our version of diablo and would like to get it upstream | 16:28 |
| jgriffith | dtynan: that's great with me | 16:28 |
| dtynan | we're targetting G1... ;) | 16:28 |
| jgriffith | dtynan: if you can do it that's cool | 16:28 |
| jgriffith | dtynan: alright, I'll target it and assign to you | 16:28 |
| winston-d | jdurgin1, thx! | 16:29 |
| jgriffith | dtynan: G1 is like two weeks away, sure you can hit that? | 16:29 |
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| dtynan | well.... | 16:29 |
| jgriffith | dtynan: hmmmmm | 16:29 |
| dtynan | we've been busy getting it into production here @ HP | 16:29 |
| jgriffith | dtynan: Yup, we're all busy :) | 16:29 |
| dtynan | so we know what the issues are... | 16:29 |
| jgriffith | dtynan: This is why I left it sitting | 16:30 |
| jgriffith | dtynan: So it's your call, and what you can commit to | 16:30 |
| dtynan | but from an HP-diablo pov, it'll be in production imminently. | 16:30 |
| dtynan | yeah, nothing like a challenge, eh? | 16:30 |
| jgriffith | dtynan: My concernn is that it just sits there forever | 16:30 |
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| jgriffith | diablo haha | 16:30 |
| dtynan | :) | 16:30 |
| jgriffith | dtynan: so tell me what you want to commit to? | 16:31 |
| dtynan | yes. | 16:31 |
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| jgriffith | dtynan: dtynan yes? | 16:31 |
| jgriffith | dtynan: Is that yes for G1, yes for sitting forever? | 16:31 |
| jgriffith | :) | 16:31 |
| dtynan | yes for G1. | 16:32 |
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| jgriffith | Okie Dokie... you're officially on thehook | 16:32 |
| jgriffith | On to iscsi-chap | 16:32 |
| jgriffith | I propose .... | 16:32 |
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| jgriffith | wait, did I already bring that up | 16:33 |
| jgriffith | think I did | 16:33 |
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| jgriffith | No... I didn't | 16:33 |
| jgriffith | I propose that one is dropped | 16:33 |
| jgriffith | It's been sitting for a long time and the reality is the back-ends immplement it | 16:33 |
| jgriffith | Haven't heard too much yelling forit | 16:34 |
| jgriffith | if vincent comes back and works on it fine, but we should remove the targetting | 16:34 |
| jgriffith | agree? | 16:34 |
| j_king | sure | 16:34 |
| jdurgin1 | fine with me | 16:35 |
| winston-d | agree | 16:35 |
| jgriffith | The other big items are: | 16:35 |
| jgriffith | FibreChannel, multi-back-end and the API general bucket | 16:35 |
| jgriffith | Anyy of the folks from HP, IBM or Brocade here today? | 16:36 |
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| jgriffith | Ok... multi-backend | 16:36 |
| jgriffith | we need to decide on how we want this | 16:36 |
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| jgriffith | rnirmal: provided a working implementation | 16:36 |
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| jgriffith | rnirmal: do we go that route or do we do multiple services/proceses on a single box | 16:37 |
| dtynan | HP. | 16:37 |
| jgriffith | dtynan: yeah, wrong HP group :) | 16:37 |
| dtynan | :) | 16:37 |
| jgriffith | as a refresher: https://review.openstack.org/#/c/11192/ | 16:38 |
| jgriffith | That's the proposal from rnirmal | 16:38 |
| winston-d | jgriffith, i prefer multiple services/processes | 16:38 |
| jgriffith | winston-d: That's the direction I'm leaning too | 16:38 |
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| jdurgin1 | that seems a lot easier to configure | 16:39 |
| jgriffith | winston-d: It solves some concerns that were raised by others | 16:39 |
| jgriffith | and let's us use the volume_type scheduler :) | 16:39 |
| j_king | as long as there isn't a high level of co-ordination required, I'd be up for multiple processes | 16:39 |
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| jgriffith | j_king: My initial thought is something like multiple managers running in their own process based on back-end | 16:39 |
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| jgriffith | use all the same concepts we use today for multiple volume node configs | 16:40 |
| jgriffith | creiht: thoughts? | 16:41 |
| j_king | sounds good. I generally prefer the more simple implementation. | 16:41 |
| creiht | jgriffith: I don't have a strong opinion here | 16:42 |
| jgriffith | my keyboard is going nuts here | 16:42 |
| jgriffith | creiht: fair enough | 16:42 |
| jgriffith | Ok, let's proceed with multi-proces | 16:42 |
| rnirmal | jgriffith: sorry came in late | 16:42 |
| creiht | but your proposal seems reasonable | 16:42 |
| jgriffith | rnirmal: No prob | 16:43 |
| jgriffith | rnirmal: We were talking about the multi-back-end immplementation | 16:43 |
| rnirmal | so multi process within the same manager ? | 16:43 |
| jgriffith | rnirmal: I was actually thinking multiple managers | 16:44 |
| rnirmal | or multiple managers ? | 16:44 |
| winston-d | multi processes in multi managers | 16:44 |
| rnirmal | jgriffith: well we don't have to do anything for it | 16:44 |
| winston-d | each manager has its own process | 16:44 |
| jgriffith | :) | 16:44 |
| rnirmal | and the whole reason for the multi-backend was to get away from having to run multiple managers | 16:44 |
| rnirmal | winston-d: that's how it's right now | 16:44 |
| jgriffith | rnirmal: multiple managers on the same node | 16:45 |
| winston-d | rnirmal, i thought your concern is too many volume service node to manage | 16:45 |
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| rnirmal | winston-d: also services right... 20 or so init scripts for each one ? | 16:46 |
| rnirmal | I'd prefer a single configuration to load all the backends... if we do multiple processes within the same manager... that would be fine too | 16:46 |
| winston-d | rnirmal, that can be changed, adding one new binary in bin/ can solve that problem. | 16:46 |
| j_king | manager could just load a backend in each process | 16:46 |
| jgriffith | TBH if you're looking at 20 back-ends I'd rather the init scripts that trying to get the config files correct | 16:47 |
| j_king | just have to config the manager | 16:47 |
| rnirmal | jgriffith: but why is a single config more harder than 20 configs ? | 16:47 |
| jgriffith | rnirmal: Why is having an init for each manager harder than 20 configs? | 16:48 |
| rnirmal | jgriffith: :) 20 log files to parse... 20 everything | 16:48 |
| jgriffith | rnirmal: just an example, maybe a poor one | 16:48 |
| jgriffith | rnirmal: hmmm... ok, you've got me there :) | 16:48 |
| jdurgin1 | separate config files is generally easier for config management to deal with | 16:49 |
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| winston-d | the complexity comes with a new layer 'backend' in single manager design. | 16:49 |
| winston-d | i'd rather to have separate log files, IMHO | 16:49 |
| jdurgin1 | winston-d: +1 | 16:50 |
| rnirmal | winston-d: with what I proposed you can still do that | 16:50 |
| rnirmal | it gives the option to do both | 16:50 |
| rongze_ | winston-d: +1 | 16:50 |
| j_king | winston-d: you still could with a single manager that manages several backend processes | 16:50 |
| rnirmal | you are not tied to any particular way | 16:50 |
| j_king | the process just logs | 16:50 |
| winston-d | rnirmal, it's true and i think multi manager design can also combine multi configuration files into one | 16:50 |
| winston-d | without adding complexity to introduce a new layer 'back-end'. | 16:51 |
| rnirmal | winston-d: how would you distinguish 20 backends in the current design -> 'host' ? | 16:51 |
| rnirmal | that's bad as is | 16:51 |
| rnirmal | irrespective we still need the concept of a 'back-end' | 16:52 |
| winston-d | rnirmal, via volume-topic | 16:52 |
| rnirmal | merely more than just a driver... | 16:52 |
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| rnirmal | winston-d: how? | 16:52 |
| rnirmal | don't tell me run on multiple hosts | 16:52 |
| rnirmal | that's how it's right now | 16:52 |
| winston-d | as long as different back-end instance has it unique volume-topic, scheduler is able to find it. | 16:52 |
| rnirmal | how is that more different than with a 'back-end' | 16:53 |
| jgriffith | Ok, seems we have a bit to work through on this :) | 16:53 |
| rnirmal | the scheduler either needs to know which 'volume-topic' or which 'backend' | 16:53 |
| rnirmal | which 'backend' seems more clearer than which 'volume-topic' | 16:54 |
| jgriffith | rnirmal: why? | 16:54 |
| rnirmal | just canonically | 16:54 |
| jgriffith | meh... maybe | 16:54 |
| jgriffith | So here's the thing IMO | 16:54 |
| jgriffith | There are advantages and disadvantages to both | 16:55 |
| jgriffith | What I'm trying to figure out is which is going to be more robust and supportable | 16:55 |
| jgriffith | with an emphasis on robust | 16:55 |
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| winston-d | and able-to-scale | 16:56 |
| jgriffith | winston-d: true, but I think both can scale, just not as clean maybe | 16:56 |
| winston-d | right | 16:57 |
| rnirmal | jgriffith: I'm all for a better solution if we have one :) | 16:57 |
| jgriffith | rnirmal: well the problem is I think your solution is great | 16:57 |
| jgriffith | rnirmal: that being said I want to look at all possibilities | 16:58 |
| jgriffith | So I think what needs to happen is we need to have some code to compare | 16:58 |
| jgriffith | so maybe an implementation using multiple managers that at least *functions* so we can look at the two together | 16:59 |
| jgriffith | see what comes out of it? | 16:59 |
| jgriffith | seem reasonable? | 16:59 |
| kmartin | jgriffith: sorry, I'm here a hour late due to Daylight saving apparently. | 16:59 |
| rnirmal | jgriffith: sure. | 16:59 |
| jgriffith | kmartin: you and a few others :) | 16:59 |
| kmartin | ;) | 16:59 |
| rnirmal | kmartin: got caught in daylight savings as well :) | 16:59 |
| thingee | ditto | 17:00 |
| jgriffith | anyway, I think there's enough interest and merit in the multi-manager approach that we should at least pursue it a bit | 17:00 |
| rnirmal | jgriffith: agreed | 17:00 |
| jgriffith | ok, and we always have the first implementation that we can go with when it comes down to it | 17:01 |
| jgriffith | alright... pheww | 17:01 |
| jgriffith | Ummm... I wanted to save some time to see if folks had bp's they haven't gotten around to filing yet | 17:01 |
| * jgriffith is looking at creiht | 17:02 | |
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| kmartin | A far as the FC blueprint with details has made it's way through HP legal is now getting reveiwed by the entire team as we meet again tomorrow morning. | 17:02 |
| jgriffith | thingee: btw, wanted to see what your blockers are | 17:02 |
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| jgriffith | kmartin: wow.. beuarocracy at it's finest :) | 17:03 |
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| kmartin | jgriffith: yep | 17:03 |
| thingee | jgriffith: my two bps list bootable vols and clearer error messages are blocked by my apiv2 bp | 17:03 |
| thingee | should make that more clear on the bps themselves | 17:03 |
| jgriffith | thingee: ahhh | 17:04 |
| jgriffith | thingee: yeah, we should mark them as such | 17:04 |
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| thingee | for apiv2 I've posted my github branch which basically has middleware separated out and other api common code. tests pass. | 17:04 |
| jgriffith | thingee: and maybe make dependencies instead of listing as blocked | 17:04 |
| thingee | it's all in the bp | 17:04 |
| thingee | jgriffith: sounds good | 17:04 |
| jgriffith | thingee: yeah, was looking at that last night, looks good so far | 17:05 |
| jgriffith | thingee: Nice work on that for a week-end :) | 17:05 |
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| jgriffith | thingee: unless you were just hiding it prior to that :) | 17:05 |
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| thingee | jgriffith: got about 26 tests failing atm for routing stuff. This is a bigger change that I was hoping and a bit of learning curve for me, but I've learned a lot about paste over the weekend and just gotta get things organized to model glance correctly | 17:06 |
| jgriffith | thingee: I hear ya | 17:06 |
| ollie1 | @jgriffith I believe there are some folks here at HP planning to submit a bp around volume backup, to swift object store | 17:06 |
| jgriffith | thingee: make sure you get the fixes for the monkey patching before you try and run with real endpoints :) | 17:06 |
| dtynan | meant to mention that volume-backup BP... ;) | 17:07 |
| thingee | jgriffith: I hear that | 17:07 |
| jgriffith | dtynan: ollie1 noted | 17:07 |
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| jgriffith | keep in mind, there's some code in island that might be leveraged for this as well | 17:08 |
| jgriffith | and the Lunar folks have some interest so they should be updated as well | 17:08 |
| dtynan | thingee we did some stuff for list-bootable-volumes but it was through an hp-specific API hook (for now). I'd be interested in reading your BP. (and will do..) | 17:08 |
| thingee | dtynan: I grabbed it because it seemed doable for me, but I'll be honest, I haven't started yet with some of the other stuff on my plate. | 17:09 |
| ollie1 | @jgriffith I'll pass that on | 17:09 |
| thingee | I'll be focusing on apiv2 this week. would love to get to it next week if all goes according to plan (heh). | 17:10 |
| dtynan | thingee: cool. I'll take a look. we figured an hp-specific API was the best (short term) way of getting the functionality before it's in the mainstream. | 17:10 |
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| jgriffith | thingee: If G1 is possible that would be ideal | 17:10 |
| jgriffith | thingee: we can of course add to it after that, but | 17:11 |
| jgriffith | thingee: we should have that in for things to build off of as you pointed out with your other BP's | 17:11 |
| jgriffith | kmartin: how are you guys feeling about the FC work? | 17:12 |
| jgriffith | kmartin: I know you're meeting tomororw,but what's the general feel so far? | 17:12 |
| thingee | jgriffith: definitely! I'll be focusing hard on making that happen. | 17:12 |
| jgriffith | thingee: great, thanks! | 17:12 |
| kmartin | jgriffith: the BP looks good and we're shooting for G2 | 17:12 |
| jgriffith | kmartin: G2? Really? | 17:12 |
| jgriffith | kmartin: Awesome! | 17:12 |
| kmartin | that the plan may slip into G3 | 17:13 |
| jgriffith | Ok... we're over, anything else? | 17:13 |
| jgriffith | kmartin: haha | 17:13 |
| jgriffith | I'll target G3 :) | 17:13 |
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| ollie1 | fyi we're also working the bp to extend volume usage stats: https://blueprints.launchpad.net/cinder/+spec/volume-usage-metering | 17:13 |
| kmartin | sounds safer :) | 17:13 |
| winston-d | if you guys have time, please take a look at here: https://etherpad.openstack.org/cinder-backend-capability-report | 17:14 |
| jgriffith | ollie1: can you update the bp? | 17:14 |
| winston-d | that's for back-end to report capability/capacity for scheduling purpose. | 17:14 |
| jgriffith | ollie1: and what is your timeline? | 17:14 |
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| jgriffith | winston-d: thanks for reminding me :) | 17:15 |
| ollie1 | I'll check that out with the person on it and update the bp | 17:15 |
| jgriffith | winston-d: looks like a good start | 17:15 |
| dtynan | the guy who did the volume-usage-metering code is on vacation this week. | 17:15 |
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| jgriffith | ollie1: ok, just FYI I'm going to hack up blueprints tonight with prejudice :) | 17:16 |
| jgriffith | dtynan: ahhh | 17:16 |
| winston-d | that's just some examples, we should have mandatory ones and optional ones to report. | 17:16 |
| jgriffith | alright, well no big deal. We never stop accepting blue-prints | 17:16 |
| dtynan | we'll round him up next week, and get him busy on the upstream work :) | 17:16 |
| dtynan | it's implemented internally. | 17:16 |
| jgriffith | winston-d: yes, I'm with ya | 17:16 |
| jgriffith | winston-d: it's a good model to start and see what we're doing though | 17:17 |
| jgriffith | alright.... i should probably wrap this up | 17:17 |
| jdurgin1 | winston-d: just a heads up, I expect most of those to not make sense (and thus be optional) from a ceph perspective | 17:17 |
| jgriffith | jdurgin1: I think we'll tweak this a bit to make more sense, but... | 17:18 |
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| jgriffith | jdurgin1: I was thiking that for any we say are mandatory but they don't apply just set None? | 17:18 |
| jgriffith | jdurgin1: so *kinda* mandatory | 17:18 |
| winston-d | jgriffith, jdurgin1, make sense | 17:18 |
| jdurgin1 | jgriffith: might as well make them option imo, but we can discuss later | 17:19 |
| jgriffith | jdurgin1: The mandatory part is just that you can be queiried and return the field | 17:19 |
| jgriffith | jdurgin1: so maybe better language is that you have to implement the report_capabilities method | 17:19 |
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| winston-d | mandatory is minimum set of capability that allow built-in filters to work, i think | 17:20 |
| jgriffith | jdurgin1: what you put in there has guidelines if yousupport | 17:20 |
| jgriffith | we can hash it out | 17:20 |
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| jgriffith | jdurgin1: but I think theres value in the function, and eve the basics like driver version etc | 17:21 |
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| jdurgin1 | that makes more sense, but we're over a bit already | 17:21 |
| jgriffith | we're way over | 17:21 |
| jgriffith | alright | 17:21 |
| jgriffith | thanks everyone | 17:21 |
| jgriffith | don't forget DST next week :) | 17:21 |
| jgriffith | #endmeeting | 17:21 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack meetings || Development in #openstack-dev || Help in #openstack" | 17:21 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Wed Nov 7 17:21:50 2012 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 17:21 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/cinder/2012/cinder.2012-11-07-16.00.html | 17:21 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/cinder/2012/cinder.2012-11-07-16.00.txt | 17:21 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/cinder/2012/cinder.2012-11-07-16.00.log.html | 17:21 |
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| CaptTofu | howdy all | 17:58 |
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| zykes- | aloha ;o | 17:59 |
| Kiall | Hiya | 18:00 |
| CaptTofu | how goes over there weather wise? | 18:00 |
| zykes- | here ? | 18:00 |
| Kiall | Another min or two before we start the DNSaaS meeting - anyone else here yet? | 18:00 |
| zykes- | crap p | 18:00 |
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| CaptTofu | looks like people are entering the room | 18:00 |
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| jcmartin | hi all | 18:00 |
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| zykes- | any of you from grid dynamics btw ? | 18:01 |
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| CaptTofu | Kiall: ryan is not going to be here today? | 18:01 |
| andrewbogott | Ryan is on holiday. | 18:01 |
| CaptTofu | I thought so. | 18:02 |
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| Kiall | #startmeeting DNSaaS | 18:03 |
| openstack | Meeting started Wed Nov 7 18:03:08 2012 UTC. The chair is Kiall. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 18:03 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 18:03 |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'dnsaas' | 18:03 |
| Kiall | Hi all! | 18:03 |
| Kiall | Everyone had a chance to glance at the agenda? http://wiki.openstack.org/Meetings/DNSaaS | 18:03 |
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| CaptTofu | yes :) | 18:03 |
| Kiall | So - First things first - Stackforge | 18:04 |
| Kiall | Moniker's code has been moved to Stackforge, meaning we now use the OpenStack Jenkins and Gerrit install. | 18:04 |
| Kiall | Any contributions etc must come via Gerrit! | 18:05 |
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| Kiall | And a launchpad project has been setup for bug tracking - https://launchpad.net/moniker | 18:05 |
| Kiall | File anything you find please! | 18:06 |
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| CaptTofu | Kiall: I wonder if it'd be a good question to ask who has tried out the code? | 18:06 |
| Kiall | Does everyone know how to handle code submissions via Gerrit? | 18:06 |
| jcmartin | What model do you want to use : one branch per bug/blueprint or one branch per feature/milestone ? | 18:06 |
| Kiall | CaptTofu, yes.. that would be :) | 18:06 |
| Kiall | jcmartin, gerrit somewhat pre-defines the meaning of branches | 18:07 |
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| Kiall | Basically - a branch is a series of related patch sets | 18:07 |
| jcmartin | I am not an expert, but recently other project have "feature" branches | 18:07 |
| Kiall | each patch in the set must be valid, and pass all tests etc | 18:07 |
| Kiall | jcmartin, oh - I havent seen any of the OS projects using those | 18:07 |
| Kiall | #link http://wiki.openstack.org/GerritWorkflow | 18:08 |
| jcmartin | It depends i guess if you want one level before to get to main, or two | 18:08 |
| Kiall | jcmartin, I'll look into how they use them. But traditionally, Gerrit has had a standard flow that prevents long lived topic branches | 18:08 |
| jcmartin | they call it topic branches | 18:08 |
| zykes- | correct | 18:09 |
| zykes- | though isn't that mostly for "big" things like big features? | 18:09 |
| jcmartin | through | 18:10 |
| Kiall | Sure - I've no idea how the others are using them - So I can't really comment on them (yet)! | 18:10 |
| jcmartin | true | 18:10 |
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| Kiall | So - CaptTofu had a good question re who has actually deployed and tested the code? | 18:10 |
| Kiall | Can I get a show of hands? | 18:10 |
| jcmartin | not deployed, but tested | 18:10 |
| Kiall | <- I obviously have | 18:10 |
| Kiall | well -i meant started the whole thing up rather than in production :) | 18:11 |
| simonmcc1 | the normal gerrit workflow is to create a local branch off the gerrit master head & work there, it's possible to still submit to the for-review master branch | 18:11 |
| zykes- | i'll do when the notification stuff is decided and I can put it to use Kiall :) | 18:11 |
| * CaptTofu does | 18:11 | |
| simonmcc1 | I haven't started anything up yet :) | 18:11 |
| Kiall | Okay - So a few - I love to hear feedback from others (maybe after the meeting?) to find out if anything is preventing them from doing so | 18:12 |
| Kiall | I would* | 18:12 |
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| Kiall | So - Moving on - I expect this next one to take a while ;) | 18:13 |
| Kiall | #topic Notification Handling | 18:13 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Notification Handling" | 18:13 | |
| Kiall | Since the last meeting, I've implemented support for handling notifications from other OS services - eg nova/quantum | 18:13 |
| Kiall | What's left to do there is decide on the appropriate actions to take upon receiving a notification | 18:14 |
| jcmartin | it was pretty fast, kudos | 18:14 |
| Kiall | We agreed last week to auto create records for both floating and fixed IPs as they are assigned to instances. | 18:14 |
| Kiall | What we did not decide, was what those records would look like, or what domain they would be created it | 18:15 |
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| Kiall | created in* | 18:15 |
| andrewbogott | Kiall: Can I ask which notification method you're listening for? | 18:15 |
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| Kiall | I'd like to hear what people expect/want | 18:15 |
| andrewbogott | (Maybe there's only one notifier that's appropriate, I haven't looked at the options lately) | 18:15 |
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| Kiall | andrewbogott, It makes use of the openstack common RPC code | 18:16 |
| Kiall | although in a somewhat "unusual" way - I've borrowed the unusual code from Ceiliometer | 18:16 |
| CaptTofu | Kiall: I haven't looked at that work, but is documentation there for how these notifications are put to use? | 18:16 |
| jcmartin | With regard to the name of the record, we should make it configurable | 18:16 |
| Kiall | and am hoping to get a proper well defined notification listener into OS Common - SandyWalsh recently wrote out a BP for just that | 18:17 |
| andrewbogott | Kiall: OK, sorry, I'm behind… this is using the rabbit_notifier driver, or...? | 18:17 |
| Kiall | jcmartin, configurable is an option, but we are limited by the content of the notifications | 18:17 |
| Kiall | andrewbogott, ah yes. On the nova/quantum side - I've tested rabbit_notifier | 18:17 |
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| andrewbogott | ok. | 18:18 |
| Kiall | and on the moniker side - i use the Kombu RPC client | 18:18 |
| jcmartin | true, only few options will be possible | 18:18 |
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| Kiall | CaptTofu, Right now we're trying to figure out what to use them for :) | 18:18 |
| CaptTofu | Kiall: also I'll put a plug for the fact for those interested, the REST API for Moniker is documented | 18:18 |
| andrewbogott | Kiall: So, I think we'd discussed having some sort of template system that modifies the tenant name and produces the DNS domain... | 18:18 |
| andrewbogott | And a similar system that modifies the instance name to produce DNS name | 18:18 |
| jcmartin | CaptTofu: can you post a link ? | 18:19 |
| Kiall | andrewbogott, can you go into some detail on the sort of modification that might be done? | 18:20 |
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| Kiall | And - would it be a global per-moniker option, or per tenant? | 18:20 |
| andrewbogott | It could be done via regexp or we could have a plugabble system that calls a function. | 18:20 |
| andrewbogott | I guess having it be pluggable is good, then the default can be regexp. | 18:20 |
| Kiall | jcmartin, I'm uploading the latest now | 18:20 |
| Kiall | #link http://packages.python.org/moniker/ | 18:20 |
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| Kiall | andrewbogott, right - the implementation is pluggable via entry points - it should be trivial to add custom handlers | 18:21 |
| andrewbogott | Kiall: cool! So you can just implement a reference plugin that does no transformation (tenant name -> dns domain) | 18:21 |
| andrewbogott | and leave the rest to users :) | 18:22 |
| Kiall | Thats certainly an option. I have a "toy" implementation here already: https://github.com/stackforge/moniker/blob/master/moniker/notification_handler/nova.py | 18:22 |
| Kiall | it creates an A record for $instance_id.$tenant_id.$preconfigured_domain | 18:22 |
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| Kiall | But - I would prefer to have a more useful default handler included! | 18:23 |
| CaptTofu | jcmartin: just check out moniker and build the sphinx docs | 18:23 |
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| Kiall | jcmartin, do you have any particular format for auto-generated records in mind? | 18:23 |
| jcmartin | CapTofu: will play with sphinx | 18:23 |
| andrewbogott | Kiall: That sounds pretty useful to me already. | 18:23 |
| Kiall | jcmartin, also docs are uploaded to http://packages.python.org/moniker/ | 18:24 |
| andrewbogott | Kiall: The next implementation might take a multistropt to map tenants to domains. | 18:24 |
| jcmartin | Kiall: no specific format, and I can guarantee that anything we come up with will not work for some users | 18:24 |
| araveendrann | is hostname part of the message payload | 18:24 |
| CaptTofu | jcmartin: for your convenience, you are welcome to browse my server: http://15.185.172.152/~ubuntu/ | 18:25 |
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| Kiall | araveendrann, sadly - no! | 18:25 |
| jcmartin | instance name should be in some notification, no ? | 18:25 |
| Kiall | For reference a sample instance create end notification: https://github.com/stackforge/moniker/blob/master/moniker/tests/sample_notifications/nova/compute.instance.create.end.json | 18:25 |
| andrewbogott | Kiall: Wait, I think it is… isn't there a display_name field? | 18:25 |
| zykes- | CaptTofu: why that when there's moniker.rthfd.com ? | 18:25 |
| zykes- | CaptTofu: why that when there's moniker.rthfd.org sorry ? | 18:25 |
| Kiall | yes - display_name is present | 18:25 |
| Kiall | zykes-, because the RTFD hasnt updated ;) | 18:26 |
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| andrewbogott | display_name seems sufficient, unless I misunderstand what it's for. | 18:26 |
| Kiall | Maybe we can go display_name.$tenant_id.$preconfigured_domain | 18:26 |
| Kiall | But - reusing the same name twice might produce unexpected (or expected) behaviour .. ie a RR DNS record | 18:27 |
| araveendrann | but is that field editable by the user, in which case we need to adjust for the new display name | 18:27 |
| jcmartin | you might want to add indexes if you have multiple ip, something maybe based on nic priority | 18:27 |
| CaptTofu | zykes-: thanks for pointing that out. I volunteer to make that happen whatever the case | 18:27 |
| andrewbogott | Kiall: Behold! https://review.openstack.org/#/c/14833/ | 18:27 |
| Kiall | araveendrann, actually - your right. the display_name can be changed | 18:28 |
| Kiall | So using that might produce some unexpected results | 18:28 |
| jcmartin | what about just using some combination of the IP like comcast does and allow users to create cnames ? | 18:29 |
| andrewbogott | That certainly solves the uniqueness problem. | 18:29 |
| Kiall | jcmartin, thats actually not a bad option. using UUIDs makes the names "almost" useless | 18:29 |
| andrewbogott | It would also not be hard to add hostname to the notification. There's a lot in there aleady, I wouldn't think anyone would object to another field. | 18:29 |
| jcmartin | based on our experience, you DON'T want to be in the business of defining hostnames for people | 18:30 |
| Kiall | andrewbogott, yea - I doubt anyone would | 18:31 |
| jcmartin | What we ended up doing is creating a default hostname/record with some internally useful name, and let users add/change it later | 18:31 |
| andrewbogott | Kiall: I'm happy to go do that right away, if we conclude that it's useful to us. | 18:31 |
| Kiall | jcmartin that seems sane. Does anyone object to using the IP and a pre-defined provider domain as the stock handler? | 18:31 |
| zykes- | maybe we can make the dnsrecord templatable ? | 18:31 |
| jcmartin | that works for me | 18:31 |
| Kiall | andrewbogott, it would certainly be useful for me :) | 18:31 |
| zykes- | instead | 18:31 |
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| andrewbogott | zykes-: I think we've already agreed that there will be (is) a plugin system for customizing the dnsrecord, we're just picking a good default. | 18:32 |
| andrewbogott | Kiall: OK, noted. | 18:32 |
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| andrewbogott | And, +1 for jc's suggestion about using IPs for the first pass. | 18:32 |
| araveendrann | this is how ec2 does it ec2-72-44-45-204.compute-1.amazonaws.com | 18:33 |
| zykes- | rip of ec2 then :) | 18:33 |
| Kiall | Okay - So before we vote on the options (UUID's, IPs, display_name) does anyone have any other suggestions? | 18:33 |
| andrewbogott | Kiall: We barely need to vote, each of those is trivial to implement and you can just make it switchable :) | 18:34 |
| zykes- | #vote | 18:34 |
| zykes- | :p | 18:34 |
| Kiall | #startvote Default record format for auto-generated records: UUID, IPs, DisplayName | 18:34 |
| Kiall | andrewbogott, too late | 18:34 |
| Kiall | #startvote Default record format for auto-generated records? UUID, IPs, DisplayName | 18:34 |
| openstack | Begin voting on: Default record format for auto-generated records? Valid vote options are UUID, IPs, DisplayName. | 18:34 |
| openstack | Vote using '#vote OPTION'. Only your last vote counts. | 18:34 |
| Kiall | #vote IPs | 18:34 |
| zykes- | #vote IPs | 18:35 |
| jcmartin | #vote IPs | 18:35 |
| andrewbogott | #vote IPs | 18:35 |
| Kiall | ^ follow that "syntax" to vote :) | 18:35 |
| araveendrann | #vote IPs | 18:35 |
| uvirtbot` | Kiall: Error: "follow" is not a valid command. | 18:35 |
| CaptTofu | #vote IPs | 18:35 |
| Kiall | Hah - that was an easy decision so. | 18:35 |
| Kiall | Any stragglers? | 18:35 |
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| Kiall | I guess not. | 18:35 |
| Kiall | #endvote | 18:35 |
| openstack | Voted on "Default record format for auto-generated records?" Results are | 18:35 |
| openstack | IPs (6): CaptTofu, araveendrann, jcmartin, zykes-, andrewbogott, Kiall | 18:35 |
| CaptTofu | Kiall: I'll submit the patch for that. I need to put my DBA hat on and add any indexes missing | 18:35 |
| Kiall | CaptTofu, great! | 18:35 |
| Kiall | #action CaptTofu to provide a patch for the switch to IP based auto generated records | 18:36 |
| Kiall | Anything more on notification handling before I move on? | 18:36 |
| Kiall | #topic Python Client API and CLI | 18:37 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Python Client API and CLI" | 18:37 | |
| Kiall | Okay - So we currently have no usable python client API, or CLI. I have some horrible code that I could clean up, but that would basically be a rewrite anyway | 18:37 |
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| Kiall | I was hoping to find a volunteer :) | 18:38 |
| andrewbogott | It should use openstack-client... | 18:38 |
| andrewbogott | I'll volunteer if it can use openstack-client :) | 18:38 |
| Kiall | anderstj, when did that come out? Link? -_- | 18:38 |
| andrewbogott | Um… for CLI that is. | 18:38 |
| Kiall | #link https://github.com/openstack/python-openstackclient | 18:38 |
| jcmartin | #link http://blog.doughellmann.com/2012/10/cliff-command-line-interface.html | 18:39 |
| jcmartin | this is not openstack vetted yet | 18:39 |
| Kiall | jcmartin, the current skeleton CLI is using cliff | 18:39 |
| Kiall | (It used for database init and sync right now) | 18:39 |
| jcmartin | cool | 18:39 |
| Kiall | And it looks like python-openstackclient uses it to | 18:40 |
| Kiall | too | 18:40 |
| jcmartin | then it's vetted | 18:40 |
| Kiall | andrewbogott, willing to volunteer? :) | 18:40 |
| Kiall | The REST API is small, so the Python API and CLI should be fairly minimal | 18:40 |
| andrewbogott | Kiall: We're talking about the layer that implements a CLI and converts it to REST calls? I'm happy to do that. | 18:40 |
| CaptTofu | I'll help certainly | 18:41 |
| Kiall | andrewbogott, yes - So a python lib that makes the API requests, and a CLI that wraps it | 18:41 |
| andrewbogott | Yep, sounds good. | 18:42 |
| zykes- | converts it how ? | 18:42 |
| CaptTofu | adrewbogott: sounds pretty easy to use eh? | 18:42 |
| andrewbogott | Um… maybe my use of 'convert' was ill-conceived. 'relays'. | 18:42 |
| Kiall | Interestingly, it looks like python-openstackclient only does the CLI part, and doesnt provide the a python API for the services | 18:43 |
| Kiall | andrewbogott, it's certainly worth looking at anyway! | 18:43 |
| Kiall | #action andrewbogott Look into python API and CLI | 18:43 |
| Kiall | #action CaptTofu Look into python API and CLI w/andrewbogott | 18:43 |
| CaptTofu | #action CaptTofu add indexes | 18:44 |
| Kiall | We all expect results in the next 30 mins or so ;) | 18:44 |
| Kiall | Get to it | 18:44 |
| Kiall | ! | 18:44 |
| CaptTofu | hehe | 18:44 |
| CaptTofu | that's funny | 18:44 |
| Kiall | Next up is DevStack | 18:44 |
| Kiall | #topic DevStack | 18:44 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "DevStack" | 18:44 | |
| Kiall | It seems we can't just add support for Moniker straight to devstack unless we're officially an incubated project | 18:44 |
| Kiall | So - Even if we start that today, it will be a while before it's official. | 18:45 |
| Kiall | I'm going to fork devstack and add moniker support there - I'll hopefully get it done before the next meeting | 18:45 |
| Kiall | that should make things easier for all involved | 18:45 |
| Kiall | #action kiall Add moniker support to a DevStack fork | 18:45 |
| Kiall | And - rushing over that last one - we move on to the last topic: | 18:46 |
| jcmartin | What backend should this include ? | 18:46 |
| Kiall | Hah - Almost ;) | 18:46 |
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| Kiall | jcmartin, I would like to see PowerDNS as its easier to get going than bind | 18:47 |
| jcmartin | maybe you should implement the plugin model before | 18:47 |
| andrewbogott | I'll want to implement the pdns/ldap backend somewhat quickly. But I'm not sure that helps anyone but me. | 18:47 |
| jcmartin | I mean for devstack, fake backend or dnsmasq ? | 18:47 |
| Kiall | jcmartin, agreed, I've got the agent conversion to proper plugins half done | 18:48 |
| andrewbogott | A fake backend that basically just logs commands will be useful for development. And quick to write. | 18:48 |
| jcmartin | can we configure dnsmasq to return host file like entries ? | 18:48 |
| jcmartin | fake backend would be good for now anyway | 18:49 |
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| Kiall | andrewbogott, good idea. I'll add it to my todo list. I've almost got the agent converted to a proper plugin system.. I'll add that once I'm done (or maybe someone can beat me to it? ;)) | 18:49 |
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| CaptTofu | jcmartin: fake backend, what would that mean exactly? | 18:49 |
| Kiall | #action Kiall to complete agent conversion -> plugin system | 18:49 |
| CaptTofu | just logs commands, stubbed out | 18:49 |
| CaptTofu | ? | 18:49 |
| jcmartin | yep | 18:49 |
| Kiall | #action Kiall (or someone!) to write a logging/fake agent | 18:49 |
| zykes- | so what, make 1 agent to rule them all via plugins ? | 18:50 |
| Kiall | jcmartin, We can hace dnsmasq serve a hosts file | 18:50 |
| Kiall | have* | 18:50 |
| jcmartin | plugin should not be in the agent in my opinion | 18:50 |
| Kiall | jcmartin, any reason why not? (That is the route I've taken so far) | 18:51 |
| jcmartin | it means that you have to have the agent. Some DNS server already expose a rest api, why use an agent ? | 18:51 |
| jcmartin | or in the case of powerdns, the agent would just configure ldap/mysql | 18:52 |
| CaptTofu | zykes-: what do you mean 1 agent to rule them all via plugins? | 18:53 |
| Kiall | The main reason I chose to always have an agent (even for simpler agents) was to keep the clear separation, and avoid confusion over where the code that talks to the backend is executing | 18:53 |
| jcmartin | agent is useful if you have to update local files | 18:53 |
| zykes- | CaptTofu: as in 1 agent daemon that loads plugins | 18:53 |
| CaptTofu | ah | 18:53 |
| CaptTofu | zykes-, Kiall, jcmartin: the agent code I think lends itself well to that | 18:53 |
| jcmartin | I agree to use RPC as an API, but it's not an agent, it's the server | 18:53 |
| Kiall | There is nothing preventing the agent from running alongside moniker-central | 18:54 |
| Kiall | jcmartin, I'm not sure I understand? | 18:54 |
| jcmartin | True, it's more of a deployment decision | 18:54 |
| jcmartin | My point is that the deployment will be driven by the type of plugin, which may be ok | 18:55 |
| Kiall | Is the confusion is over the word "agent"? that the word agent lends itself to being co-located with the backend itself? | 18:55 |
| Kiall | And with - say powerdns+ldap - that may not be the case | 18:55 |
| Kiall | (I'm speaking of my confusion BTW - Not yours :)) | 18:55 |
| jcmartin | Kiall: i think it's fine for now, but we may want to look at some DNS deployment model and see how this works | 18:56 |
| zykes- | I guess this is a 2 part question then | 18:56 |
| Kiall | jcmartin, agreed. | 18:56 |
| jcmartin | I an volunteering to provide some blurb on that | 18:56 |
| jcmartin | and we can review | 18:56 |
| Kiall | So since we're almost out of time, and I believe this room is booked for | 18:56 |
| Kiall | 19:00 (aka 2 mins) | 18:56 |
| zykes- | 1 plugin side on the central | 18:56 |
| zykes- | 1 plugin on the agent side | 18:57 |
| Kiall | lets move onto the very last topic | 18:57 |
| Kiall | #topic Incubation | 18:57 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Incubation" | 18:57 | |
| CaptTofu | do we vote on something? | 18:57 |
| Kiall | CaptTofu, no need I think | 18:57 |
| CaptTofu | ok | 18:57 |
| Kiall | #action jcmartin to look into incubation, the process, and the options. | 18:57 |
| jcmartin | agreed | 18:57 |
| CaptTofu | that was easy | 18:57 |
| Kiall | JC agreed earlier today to look into the incubation options for next weeks meeting | 18:58 |
| CaptTofu | thanks JC! | 18:58 |
| jcmartin | I'll take also the deployment option doc | 18:58 |
| Kiall | jcmartin, great :) | 18:58 |
| Kiall | #action jcmartin to look into various deployment options | 18:58 |
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| jcmartin | just on time | 18:59 |
| Kiall | Okay - thanks all. Times up! | 18:59 |
| Kiall | #endmeeting | 18:59 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack meetings || Development in #openstack-dev || Help in #openstack" | 18:59 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Wed Nov 7 18:59:27 2012 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 18:59 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/dnsaas/2012/dnsaas.2012-11-07-18.03.html | 18:59 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/dnsaas/2012/dnsaas.2012-11-07-18.03.txt | 18:59 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/dnsaas/2012/dnsaas.2012-11-07-18.03.log.html | 18:59 |
| Kiall | I'll be in #openstack-dns for a while anyway.. | 18:59 |
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| Kiall | Feel free to nag me there ;) | 18:59 |
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| CaptTofu | thanks all | 19:00 |
| andrewbogott | Thanks Kiall. | 19:00 |
| Kiall | Thanks all - See you next week (or sooner in #openstack-dns ) | 19:01 |
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| nijaba | #startmeeting Ceilometer | 21:00 |
| nijaba | #meetingtopic Ceilometer | 21:00 |
| nijaba | #chair nijaba | 21:00 |
| nijaba | #link http://wiki.openstack.org/Meetings/MeteringAgenda | 21:00 |
| openstack | Meeting started Wed Nov 7 21:00:02 2012 UTC. The chair is nijaba. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 21:00 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 21:00 |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'ceilometer' | 21:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: Ceilometer)" | 21:00 | |
| openstack | Current chairs: nijaba | 21:00 |
| nijaba | Hello everyone! Show of hands, who is around for the ceilometer meeting? | 21:00 |
| nijaba | o/ | 21:00 |
| dhellmann | o/ | 21:00 |
| timjr | \o | 21:00 |
| eglynn | o/ | 21:00 |
| rhochmuth | 0/ | 21:00 |
| anniec_ | o/ | 21:00 |
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| tasdomas | o/ | 21:01 |
| nijaba | #topic actions from previous meeting | 21:01 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "actions from previous meeting (Meeting topic: Ceilometer)" | 21:01 | |
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| nijaba | #topic nijaba to send private email to all comitter to come vote on the etherpad in the next 24h | 21:01 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "nijaba to send private email to all comitter to come vote on the etherpad in the next 24h (Meeting topic: Ceilometer)" | 21:01 | |
| nijaba | that was done | 21:01 |
| nijaba | #topic nijaba to then update wiki page as follow: 3+ votes=high, 1or2 vote=medium, low for rest in terms of priorities | 21:02 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "nijaba to then update wiki page as follow: 3+ votes=high, 1or2 vote=medium, low for rest in terms of priorities (Meeting topic: Ceilometer)" | 21:02 | |
| nijaba | I updated the roadmap page, we'll discuss this a bit later | 21:02 |
| nijaba | #topic nijaba to prepare survey for ml next week | 21:02 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "nijaba to prepare survey for ml next week (Meeting topic: Ceilometer)" | 21:02 | |
| nijaba | some of view may have bee | 21:02 |
| nijaba | invited to check it out | 21:03 |
| nijaba | we'll discuss it in a bit | 21:03 |
| nijaba | #topic dhellmann update versioning in ceilometer repo to match openstack standards | 21:03 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "dhellmann update versioning in ceilometer repo to match openstack standards (Meeting topic: Ceilometer)" | 21:03 | |
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| dhellmann | I'm working on that right now. | 21:03 |
| jd__ | (hi) | 21:03 |
| dhellmann | I think I've figured out what to do, so I expect to have the changes ready before our next meeting. | 21:03 |
| nijaba | cool. any issues? | 21:03 |
| dhellmann | it's confusing, but I'm working it out | 21:04 |
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| dhellmann | if I run into blockers, I know who to talk to for help | 21:04 |
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| jd__ | isn't that just changing version to 2013.1 ? | 21:04 |
| nijaba | ok, should we carry the action for next meeting? | 21:04 |
| dhellmann | jd__: no, there are some modules in common for keeping it up to date correctly | 21:04 |
| dhellmann | nijaba: yes | 21:04 |
| jd__ | dhellmann: ok :) | 21:04 |
| nijaba | jd__: dhellmann has to use a funky vresion generation script | 21:04 |
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| nijaba | #action dhellmann update versioning in ceilometer repo to match openstack standards | 21:05 |
| dhellmann | I've been trying to cargo-cult it from some changes proposed for quantum | 21:05 |
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| nijaba | #topic nijaba to add eglynn to ceilometer drivers on satureday if all goes well | 21:05 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "nijaba to add eglynn to ceilometer drivers on satureday if all goes well (Meeting topic: Ceilometer)" | 21:05 | |
| dhellmann | but I guess I'm going to have to actually learn how this code works :-) | 21:05 |
| nijaba | eglynn is now a core dev for ceilometer. congrats! | 21:05 |
| dhellmann | welcome! | 21:06 |
| eglynn | thanks! | 21:06 |
| jd__ | \o/ | 21:06 |
| asalkeld | go eglynn | 21:06 |
| nijaba | asalkeld: you'll likely be next ;) | 21:06 |
| dhellmann | I've seen no objections for asalkeld's nomination. I need to go back and look at the date on that email. We wait 5 days, right? | 21:06 |
| nijaba | right | 21:07 |
| nijaba | t | 21:07 |
| nijaba | that should be tomorrow | 21:07 |
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| dhellmann | ah, good | 21:07 |
| nijaba | #topic dhellmann update readthedocs copy of our docs | 21:07 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "dhellmann update readthedocs copy of our docs (Meeting topic: Ceilometer)" | 21:07 | |
| dhellmann | I believe that is done | 21:07 |
| nijaba | nice, thanks | 21:08 |
| zykes- | (cøear | 21:08 |
| nijaba | zykes-: ?? | 21:08 |
| nijaba | #topic jd and nijaba to start preparing a video demo of ceilometer | 21:08 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "jd and nijaba to start preparing a video demo of ceilometer (Meeting topic: Ceilometer)" | 21:08 | |
| zykes- | nijaba: nothing :) | 21:08 |
| nijaba | we discussed it on monday night, and now have a plan! | 21:08 |
| nijaba | jd__ and I are to start a script, but have not started on it yet | 21:09 |
| nijaba | so we'll carry it on | 21:09 |
| jd__ | suggestions welcome :) | 21:09 |
| nijaba | #action jd and nijaba to start preparing a video demo of ceilometer | 21:09 |
| dhellmann | this is an intro to ceilometer itself, right? not just for developers? | 21:09 |
| nijaba | right | 21:09 |
| zykes- | using horizon or ? | 21:10 |
| harlowja | video demo, nice | 21:10 |
| nijaba | we were thinking 5 min intro slides, then short demo | 21:10 |
| nijaba | using the den | 21:10 |
| nijaba | debug stuff jd__ wrote which is very nice to show activity | 21:10 |
| dhellmann | sounds like a good idea | 21:11 |
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| nijaba | #topic Review priorities as proposed on EfficientMetering/RoadMap | 21:12 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Review priorities as proposed on EfficientMetering/RoadMap (Meeting topic: Ceilometer)" | 21:12 | |
| harlowja | i think timjr is doing some interesting stuff with visualizations | 21:12 |
| harlowja | might be interesting also | 21:12 |
| nijaba | ok, so I updated the page using the result from our "voting" for priorities | 21:12 |
| nijaba | harlowja: that would be welcome | 21:12 |
| dhellmann | nijaba: did we really get the sqlalchemy backend as "low" priority? | 21:12 |
| nijaba | dhellmann: yep, so I think a few items need adjustement | 21:13 |
| dhellmann | indeed, that's a high priority for us at DH | 21:13 |
| dhellmann | jtran: what's the status of that driver, I haven't had a chance to look at it in a couple of days | 21:13 |
| jtran | sorry, reading back.. | 21:13 |
| jtran | oh sqlalchemy, i implemented the API methods for max and sum | 21:14 |
| jtran | I don't think there are anything left. | 21:14 |
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| jtran | at least i didn't see any tickets in that regard | 21:14 |
| dhellmann | oh, good | 21:14 |
| dhellmann | I'll run some tests with it asap | 21:14 |
| nijaba | nice | 21:14 |
| timjr | oop, late to the party | 21:14 |
| nijaba | jtran: should I mark it as done on http://wiki.openstack.org/EfficientMetering/RoadMap? | 21:15 |
| timjr | yeah, so I'm currently screwing around with zipkin | 21:15 |
| harlowja | timjr: signed u up for everything | 21:15 |
| harlowja | ha | 21:15 |
| timjr | drat | 21:15 |
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| jtran | nijaba: to be safe i'd wait until dhellmann takes a quick test | 21:15 |
| timjr | zipkin is a scala implementation of dapper (googles "distributed tracing infrastructure"). it's open source, and it has some d3.js rendering in the front end | 21:15 |
| nijaba | jtran: done but not tested is still done, I think ;) | 21:16 |
| timjr | I think that's a really nice system for understanding what your openstack cluster is up to... so I'm prototyping with it to see what's required | 21:16 |
| jtran | nijaba: in that case, yes ! ;) | 21:16 |
| nijaba | timjr: and you are basing it off the data we collect? | 21:17 |
| timjr | no | 21:17 |
| eglynn | nijaba: did a single vote translate to a "low" priority on the roadmap? | 21:17 |
| nijaba | eglynn: yep, that was what we agreed on, but need to tune now | 21:18 |
| * eglynn thought he'd voted for the 'assess Synaps' task | 21:18 | |
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| dhellmann | timjr: so this work is exploratory? | 21:18 |
| timjr | yes | 21:18 |
| nijaba | eglynn: ah, right, my mistake there, should hvae been marked | 21:19 |
| timjr | whatever I do for monitoring, I don't want to make it impossible to use it for dapper-style tracing | 21:19 |
| timjr | so this is an easy way to check :) | 21:19 |
| eglynn | nijaba: cool | 21:19 |
| nijaba | eglynn: fixed | 21:19 |
| eglynn | thanks! | 21:19 |
| dhellmann | timjr: makes sense | 21:19 |
| nijaba | anyt | 21:19 |
| nijaba | anything else on the roadmap that does not make sens before I sort it? | 21:20 |
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| asalkeld | how long do we have to get features in? | 21:20 |
| nijaba | also, if you know the bug # for the bugless tasks, feel free to complete | 21:20 |
| dhellmann | nijaba: we should take out the nova-volume item, since we decided not to do it | 21:21 |
| nijaba | asalkeld: until G3 for the base implementation | 21:21 |
| dhellmann | http://wiki.openstack.org/GrizzlyReleaseSchedule | 21:21 |
| dhellmann | g3 is feb 21 | 21:21 |
| nijaba | dhellmann: I just wanted to keep the decision documented... | 21:21 |
| asalkeld | there is the monitoring blueprint | 21:22 |
| dhellmann | that's going to be a bit of a challenge with the holiday season at the start of this cycle | 21:22 |
| dhellmann | nijaba: ah, ok | 21:22 |
| asalkeld | but not sure it could land in time | 21:22 |
| asalkeld | https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ceilometer/+spec/monitoring | 21:22 |
| asalkeld | lots to do | 21:22 |
| dhellmann | asalkeld: the teambox link on that page gives me a 404 | 21:22 |
| jd__ | asalkeld: that should depends on multi-publisher blueprint I think, no? | 21:23 |
| asalkeld | yea, me too - I'll sort it | 21:23 |
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| asalkeld | sure | 21:23 |
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| jd__ | I'll add it then :) | 21:23 |
| asalkeld | say, any reason why compute agent is in ceilometer and not in nova? | 21:24 |
| asalkeld | just seems to make more sense there IMO | 21:24 |
| jd__ | because we're not core I'd say | 21:24 |
| dhellmann | asalkeld: it depends on ceilometer code that was only in our project at the time, and we were trying to be "self contained" as much as possible for the last cycle | 21:24 |
| nijaba | asalkeld: simplicity, but we should push as much as possible to nova now that we are incubated | 21:24 |
| asalkeld | k | 21:24 |
| asalkeld | just makes that whole db issue go away | 21:25 |
| dhellmann | yeah -- it would be nice if there was a way to have nova load extensions that wanted periodic tasks | 21:25 |
| eglynn | aren't we moving towards avoiding DB access by using the novaclient? | 21:25 |
| dhellmann | then we could release it as a plugin | 21:25 |
| eglynn | (to list instances on a host etc.) | 21:26 |
| dhellmann | eglynn: yes, but we do still import nova's libvirt wrapper code, and it would be nice to get rid of that dependency, too | 21:26 |
| asalkeld | yea, dhellmann we could just have the same agent, but in nova | 21:26 |
| jd__ | I think we could export the function we need over RPC | 21:26 |
| dhellmann | asalkeld: that might make sense | 21:27 |
| nijaba | pollster for metering network bandwidth is marked as partially done. Any plan from anyone to complete? | 21:27 |
| jd__ | that's something that could be accepted | 21:27 |
| dhellmann | nijaba: I think that's done | 21:27 |
| nijaba | dhellmann: ok, \i'll fix then | 21:27 |
| jtran | dhellmann: not external | 21:27 |
| dhellmann | the associated bug is marked "fix released" | 21:27 |
| jtran | nijaba: not done | 21:27 |
| dhellmann | jtran: external traffic? | 21:27 |
| jd__ | we only have VM vif counters | 21:28 |
| jtran | the network bandwidth metering only implemented for internal network banadwidth | 21:28 |
| nijaba | jtran: do you have a good solution to distinguis external traffic? | 21:28 |
| nijaba | jtran: dhellmann used something totally differetn | 21:28 |
| jtran | nijaba: no. i looked into that before using iptables accounting. is not easy | 21:28 |
| dhellmann | jtran: I don't think there's any way for us to get external stats | 21:28 |
| dhellmann | we're asking our router for those stats (each tenant has a software router) | 21:28 |
| jtran | dhellmann: ok, if we are not considering external traffic, then please go ahead and mark it done | 21:28 |
| nijaba | jtran: so I think we should mak it done even though we have limitatins | 21:28 |
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| * jd__ agrees | 21:29 | |
| dhellmann | I agree. Even if we find a better solution, we're likely to need a couple of implementations for different configurations. | 21:29 |
| nijaba | updated | 21:29 |
| salmon_ | I yhon you can get it from openvswitch | 21:30 |
| salmon_ | *I think | 21:30 |
| nijaba | so, If you agree, I'll action myself to sort the list by prio, add bugs if none exist for each item on the list | 21:30 |
| jtran | salmon_: i haven't looked at the openvswich/quantum implementation. that's probably likely. | 21:30 |
| jd__ | nijaba: don't hesitate to use blueprints also for changes/features :) | 21:31 |
| nijaba | but I would need someone's help to give t-shirt size to features | 21:31 |
| eglynn | backtracking to the ceilo-agent-moves-into-nova idea for a sec ... | 21:31 |
| eglynn | so that seems to leak some monitoring-related concerns into nova, frequency of the polling cycle etc. | 21:31 |
| eglynn | also, can we rely on the timeliness of periodic tasks within a loaded nova compute agent? | 21:31 |
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| asalkeld | have as a seperate daemon | 21:31 |
| asalkeld | (as now) | 21:31 |
| asalkeld | and same/simerlar config options | 21:32 |
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| eglynn | would that defeat the purpose slightly? | 21:32 |
| nijaba | eglynn: and keep it under our responsability to maintain it | 21:32 |
| dhellmann | what would be the point of moving it to another git repo, then? | 21:32 |
| eglynn | (i.e. to simplify the deployment, one fewer worker etc.) | 21:32 |
| asalkeld | eglynn, it's to make accessing the data easier | 21:32 |
| asalkeld | not having to import nova stuff from ceilometer | 21:33 |
| harlowja | eglynn: if celiometer provides a library, could then we ask the nova people to write hookins to that library, idk | 21:33 |
| eglynn | yep, it would allow 'private' APIs to be used freely | 21:33 |
| harlowja | more libraries maybe | 21:33 |
| asalkeld | yar | 21:33 |
| asalkeld | (just an idea) | 21:33 |
| jd__ | so we make nova import ceilometer stuff instead? | 21:33 |
| eglynn | other option though would be for nova to export a stable public API for ceilo to use | 21:33 |
| asalkeld | jd__, yes but minimal stats_send() api | 21:34 |
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| dhellmann | eglynn: I like that better. How practical is it? | 21:34 |
| asalkeld | not really | 21:34 |
| timjr | if it exposes an API, wouldn't you have to poll? | 21:34 |
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| asalkeld | we do anyway | 21:34 |
| eglynn | timjr: yep, as now | 21:34 |
| asalkeld | problem is nova is only one project | 21:34 |
| jd__ | poll a stable API exported via RPC providing CPU time, IO, etc for all virt supported by nova | 21:34 |
| asalkeld | then to do the same for all projects? | 21:35 |
| timjr | that sounds reasonable to me | 21:35 |
| jd__ | that's something looking doable and acceptable for nova | 21:35 |
| nijaba | Ok, it seems that we have a good discussion topic here. Should we action someone to think up a proposal to be debated next week? | 21:35 |
| harlowja | hmmm, ya, so polling is one way, the monitoring stuff seems like it would be the push part though | 21:35 |
| jd__ | monitoring stuff? | 21:35 |
| nijaba | any volunteer? | 21:35 |
| timjr | harlowja: I think it's fine to have a queryable API for system stats like cpu time and so on | 21:36 |
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| eglynn | nijaba: I can work up a proposal for discussion | 21:36 |
| asalkeld | I can help | 21:36 |
| jd__ | I can comment :p | 21:36 |
| eglynn | asalkeld cool | 21:36 |
| harlowja | but should nova be doing that, or should it just be broadcasting and letting some other system provide the query ontop of that raw data | 21:36 |
| jeffreyb1 | timjr: not really so nice polling large clusters | 21:36 |
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| nijaba | #action eglynn to writup a nova integration proposal to be discussed next week | 21:37 |
| timjr | jeffreyb1: we would likely not use it for production monitoring | 21:37 |
| timjr | jeffreyb1: but there's no harm having it | 21:37 |
| jeffreyb1 | timjr: famous last words | 21:37 |
| asalkeld | problem is it uses rpc | 21:37 |
| timjr | jeffreyb1: could be convenient: hit a little status URL to find out what a node thinks it's doing, instead of going off to your monitoring dashboard | 21:37 |
| harlowja | timjr: harm being code confusion | 21:37 |
| jeffreyb1 | timjr: yup, def convenient but not a good way to go long term IMO | 21:38 |
| nijaba | Ok, so could you all please take a few moment today or tomorrow to help me fill the roadmap with the valid links? That would help a lot | 21:38 |
| nijaba | and t shirt sizes | 21:38 |
| timjr | well, you've got to gather all the stats anyway, putting up the polling API is mostly about keeping a local buffer of stat values | 21:38 |
| harlowja | XXXXXXX-small | 21:38 |
| jd__ | nijaba: how you want to proceed? | 21:38 |
| harlowja | timjr: agreed | 21:38 |
| jeffreyb1 | timjr: those stats are good for r/t monitoring but the polling will get out of hand | 21:38 |
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| timjr | jeffreyb1: again, I would not use polling for actual monitoring | 21:39 |
| harlowja | timjr: simplicity though, start simple no? | 21:39 |
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| nijaba | I'd suggest each one have a pass at it for the action they care about in the next 24h | 21:39 |
| eglynn | jeffreyb1: by out of hand, too frequent? | 21:39 |
| timjr | harlowja: I don't plan to implement it at present, but if ceilometer wants it, I don't see any conflict with our needs | 21:39 |
| jeffreyb1 | timjr: so a different mechanism for monitoring of the same stats? | 21:39 |
| harlowja | don't do local buffering, have simple broadcasting, get as far as u can with that, then add in local buffering, polling | 21:39 |
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| jd__ | nijaba: ack | 21:39 |
| dhellmann | nijaba: ack | 21:39 |
| jeffreyb1 | eglynn: thinking of polling large clusters, 1000s of machines, kind of a pain | 21:40 |
| timjr | jeffreyb1: yeah. hadoop does that, for example. | 21:40 |
| jd__ | shall we move on? | 21:40 |
| asalkeld | yes | 21:40 |
| nijaba | sorry to be a pain, but could we please keep on the agenda until the open discussion? | 21:40 |
| jeffreyb1 | eglynn: rather see fire and forget, let the collector deal with it | 21:40 |
| jeffreyb1 | nijaba: sure | 21:40 |
| nijaba | ok, I think we are ready to move to the next topic | 21:41 |
| eglynn | jeffreyb1: re. scale, a local agent would just be polling the instances local to each compute node | 21:41 |
| eglynn | nijaba: k | 21:41 |
| nijaba | #topic Review survey prepared by nijaba | 21:41 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Review survey prepared by nijaba (Meeting topic: Ceilometer)" | 21:41 | |
| nijaba | if you had the chance to review it, any comments about it? | 21:41 |
| nijaba | do you think it is ready to be shared widely? | 21:42 |
| nijaba | meaning the opnestack ml | 21:42 |
| eglynn | nijaba: do you have a link handy? | 21:42 |
| jtran | nijaba: i tried submitting my survey and it says "requires input" ... | 21:43 |
| jd__ | reviewed | 21:43 |
| nijaba | #link http://www.surveymonkey.com/s/SY55BHR | 21:43 |
| jtran | even tho i made sure all fields had an order #. | 21:43 |
| jtran | 'this question requires an answer' | 21:43 |
| nijaba | jtran: really? I did not have this issue... :( | 21:43 |
| jtran | i reproduced it right now | 21:44 |
| jtran | survey questions numbered 1-16. then i even put something in question #2. click submit and that's what i get. using chrome on osx | 21:44 |
| jtran | 1-14 i meant | 21:44 |
| nijaba | jtran: yep, I just had the same pb. Did not use to have it. I'll disable the check for now, but will need to figure out what is going on | 21:45 |
| nijaba | ok, I removed the restriction | 21:46 |
| asalkeld | sorry guys, I need to take kids to school be back in ~15min | 21:46 |
| nijaba | asalkeld: we'll be around :) | 21:47 |
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| dhellmann | what's next? | 21:47 |
| eglynn | one general point on the survey, how are we gonna set expectations in terms of being bound by the result? | 21:47 |
| nijaba | so anyone against us sharing the survey widely? | 21:48 |
| eglynn | (e.g. for guidance only?) | 21:48 |
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| nijaba | eglynn: just a poll, not commitment | 21:48 |
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| eglynn | nijaba: sounds fair | 21:48 |
| nijaba | it's really to make sure we are not too far off our potential users | 21:48 |
| nijaba | dhellmann: since you suggested it, what's your pov? | 21:49 |
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| dhellmann | we should stress those expectations in the email we send to the list | 21:49 |
| dhellmann | in the invitation, I mean | 21:49 |
| nijaba | dhellmann: +1 | 21:49 |
| eglynn | cool | 21:50 |
| dhellmann | I'm not sure how to ask for input without asking for input. ;-) | 21:50 |
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| nijaba | eglynn: asalkeld: do you mind if I remove the qpid and zeromq items from the list. It seems the issues comes from having more than 14 items in the list | 21:50 |
| eglynn | nijaba: fair enough | 21:51 |
| nijaba | and eglynn I think qpid will be a req for rhat in any case, right? | 21:51 |
| dhellmann | nijaba: let's keep those and remove some of the internal architectural stuff | 21:51 |
| eglynn | (I think Rh has sufficient interest in qpid to test anyway) | 21:51 |
| dhellmann | like removing nova imports | 21:51 |
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| nijaba | dhellmann: that would work too | 21:51 |
| * dhellmann can't see the list any more because he submitted answers to the survey | 21:51 | |
| dhellmann | "remove db access" looks like another "features" users won't care about and that we're going to do anyway | 21:52 |
| nijaba | dhellmann: I'll remove the nova import and the sqlalchemy and it should work. thanks | 21:52 |
| dhellmann | ok | 21:52 |
| nijaba | ok, fixed now | 21:54 |
| nijaba | so, I'll action myself to send the email tomorrow, unless someone is against that | 21:55 |
| dhellmann | +1 | 21:55 |
| nijaba | #action nijaba to send an invite to fill t | 21:55 |
| zykes- | what's the whole survey stuff ? | 21:55 |
| nijaba | #action nijaba to send an invite to fill the survey | 21:55 |
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| nijaba | #topic Open Discussion | 21:56 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Open Discussion (Meeting topic: Ceilometer)" | 21:56 | |
| nijaba | zykes-: not sure I understand your question | 21:56 |
| eglynn | did folks get a chance to review sandywalsh's unification write-up? | 21:56 |
| eglynn | #link http://wiki.openstack.org/UnifiedInstrumentationMetering | 21:56 |
| jtran | yes | 21:56 |
| dhellmann | zykes-: we are soliciting input from potential users about what features they consider important | 21:56 |
| jtran | good stuff | 21:56 |
| dhellmann | unfortunately, no | 21:56 |
| jeffreyb1 | yes, i read it | 21:57 |
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| harlowja | it seems complicated though | 21:57 |
| harlowja | but i think the right direction, i think we are working on unifying the bottom layer | 21:57 |
| harlowja | timjr: mainly | 21:57 |
| eglynn | yep, agreed | 21:58 |
| jeffreyb1 | really struggling with the reliance on rabbit | 21:58 |
| eglynn | I wasn't sure tho' about the "Remove the Compute service that Ceilometer uses ..." suggestion | 21:58 |
| eglynn | kinda ties in with the earlier discussion on moving stuff into nova | 21:58 |
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| harlowja | tach is one way, but i don't think the only way | 21:58 |
| harlowja | http://wiki.openstack.org/InstrumentationMetricsMonitoring is the other one that is more 'low level' | 21:58 |
| timjr | well, I don't mind if people want to use amqp to send around messages, but I would consider that a configuration option | 21:58 |
| timjr | the notification system already does | 21:58 |
| asalkeld | back | 21:58 |
| harlowja | timjr: sure | 21:59 |
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| eglynn | jeffreyb1: is the reliance on rabbit still a huge problem for you if sufficiently partitioned from the prod message bus? | 21:59 |
| eglynn | (e.g. a separate rabbit broker/cluster) | 22:00 |
| timjr | eglynn: anything other than a simple point-to-point communication has many of its own failure modes that you would want to monitor | 22:00 |
| dhellmann | I thought we already agreed we would support multiple publishing methods. | 22:00 |
| jeffreyb1 | eglynn: as tim alluded to, so long as it is a config option and pluggable to use something else then it is not a prob | 22:00 |
| eglynn | dhellmann: yep | 22:01 |
| * nijaba let us run overtime as I do not think th | 22:01 | |
| eglynn | jeffreyb1: cool | 22:01 |
| jeffreyb1 | btw, vish closed the BP and marked it as 'obsolete' | 22:01 |
| * nijaba let us run overtime as I do not think there is another meeting after us | 22:01 | |
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| jeffreyb1 | he suggested we put it in openstack-common or "external" | 22:01 |
| timjr | yeah, i think that means somehow it wasn't clear enough :) | 22:01 |
| nijaba | dhellmann: yep, that was acted for me too | 22:01 |
| timjr | the functions you call can be in a separate library, but the calls will have to land in nova and other components... | 22:02 |
| asalkeld | sure | 22:02 |
| asalkeld | seems not everyone wants a single library to emit the stats | 22:02 |
| asalkeld | might need to have tracing and metering/monitoring | 22:03 |
| timjr | um... well, I guess there's no accounting for taste | 22:03 |
| asalkeld | as seperate entities | 22:03 |
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| asalkeld | I am not fussed | 22:03 |
| dhellmann | fwiw, I've been looking at https://github.com/BrightcoveOS/Diamond/ this week and it has some of the stuff we've discussed doing with different polling rates and publishing methods already | 22:03 |
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| timjr | asalkeld: I would hope that the API is good enough that switching from two libraries to one is a simple matter of refactoring | 22:04 |
| asalkeld | cool looking | 22:04 |
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| dhellmann | we're going to be using it for monitoring here at DH, so I wrote a ceph plugin for it. pretty easy. could use some polish, but maybe we can steal ideas or even collaborate | 22:04 |
| timjr | dhellmann: that's an interesting link | 22:04 |
| eglynn | dhellmann: interesting ... | 22:04 |
| dhellmann | I'm not super happy with the "scan a directory for plugins" approach they took, and the packaging is rough, but all the pieces seem to be there. | 22:05 |
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| dhellmann | they're focusing on monitoring, of course | 22:05 |
| dhellmann | I'm not sure if you can specify that the same data goes to different sources at different rates. | 22:05 |
| dhellmann | sorry, different destinations not sources | 22:06 |
| asalkeld | yip | 22:06 |
| * nijaba_ was temporarily disconnected :( | 22:06 | |
| eglynn | that would be fairly crucial | 22:06 |
| dhellmann | eglynn: yeah, definitely | 22:06 |
| dhellmann | they've been very welcoming of patches this week, even without me contacting them directly, so that might be worth a go | 22:06 |
| asalkeld | class Metric(object): | 22:06 |
| asalkeld | def __init__(self, path, value, timestamp=None, precision=0): | 22:06 |
| asalkeld | don't see how we can add more info | 22:07 |
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| asalkeld | user/resource info | 22:07 |
| dhellmann | yeah, it's definitely not good enough for billing | 22:07 |
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| dhellmann | although the publisher pulls data out of the Metric, so if we change that class we could add data that is only used by some publishers | 22:07 |
| asalkeld | the just need **kwargs | 22:08 |
| nijaba_ | dhellmann: and the ncome the transport issue... | 22:08 |
| dhellmann | I'm not necessarily suggesting we use their daemon instead of ours, but we might get some ideas about, for example, how to configure things | 22:08 |
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| eglynn | defo worth a sniff around | 22:08 |
| dhellmann | nijaba_: some of that didn't come through, I think, I'm not sure what you mean | 22:08 |
| timjr | so would a set of arbitrary ket/value pairs be sufficient for billing purposes? | 22:08 |
| timjr | key/value, even | 22:08 |
| dhellmann | timjr: no | 22:08 |
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| timjr | dhellmann: what else do you need? | 22:08 |
| dhellmann | we need timestamps, for one | 22:09 |
| dhellmann | messages need to be signed for auditing purposes | 22:09 |
| timjr | oh, sure | 22:09 |
| asalkeld | , timestamp=None | 22:09 |
| timjr | that's an interesting one | 22:09 |
| asalkeld | they have that | 22:09 |
| nijaba | and counters for auditability | 22:09 |
| dhellmann | we need the metadata so consumers can compute rates based on properties of the instance | 22:09 |
| asalkeld | well we write the handler | 22:09 |
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| timjr | nijaba: you mean unique message IDs? | 22:09 |
| dhellmann | and we need to know the owner | 22:09 |
| nijaba | timjr: no, incremental counters | 22:09 |
| nijaba | timjr: so that you can dtect missing or inserted messages | 22:10 |
| timjr | I see | 22:10 |
| jeffreyb1 | so that is like a stateful metric? | 22:10 |
| dhellmann | nijaba: did counters make it onto the priority list for grizzly? :-) | 22:10 |
| asalkeld | sequenced metric | 22:10 |
| jeffreyb1 | hmm | 22:11 |
| nijaba | we don't really care a | 22:11 |
| nijaba | about the order | 22:11 |
| nijaba | more about tempering | 22:11 |
| timjr | nod | 22:11 |
| timjr | that makes sense | 22:11 |
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| asalkeld | well worth a look | 22:12 |
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| nijaba | should we action something here? | 22:12 |
| timjr | I think if tampering were to become an issue, you've got some fundamental access control problems on your openstack cluster | 22:12 |
| dhellmann | nijaba: I'm not sure what that action would be. | 22:13 |
| timjr | ... but I can see being paranoid where billing is concerned | 22:13 |
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| nijaba | timjr: yep, that's something people tend to become paranoid about | 22:13 |
| * dhellmann needs to leave soon | 22:13 | |
| * nijaba too | 22:13 | |
| asalkeld | "investigate diamond for use to generate stats" | 22:14 |
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| nijaba | should we end the meeting for now? | 22:14 |
| asalkeld | yip | 22:14 |
| zykes- | btw | 22:14 |
| eglynn | k | 22:14 |
| dhellmann | ok | 22:14 |
| nijaba | asalkeld: care to take that action? | 22:14 |
| asalkeld | sure | 22:14 |
| zykes- | for chargeback >> bufunfa uses ceilometer | 22:14 |
| zykes- | for people that care | 22:15 |
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| nijaba | #action asalkeld investigate diamond for use to generate stats | 22:15 |
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| nijaba | #endmeeting | 22:15 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack meetings || Development in #openstack-dev || Help in #openstack" | 22:15 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Wed Nov 7 22:15:32 2012 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 22:15 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/ceilometer/2012/ceilometer.2012-11-07-21.00.html | 22:15 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/ceilometer/2012/ceilometer.2012-11-07-21.00.txt | 22:15 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/ceilometer/2012/ceilometer.2012-11-07-21.00.log.html | 22:15 |
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| nijaba | Thanks everyone | 22:15 |
| zykes- | noone cares ;p | 22:15 |
| eglynn | 'night all | 22:15 |
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| tasdomas | good night | 22:15 |
| asalkeld | night | 22:15 |
| jtran | quick question off topic can i close https://bugs.launchpad.net/ceilometer/+bug/1053514 as invalid or 'wont fix' | 22:16 |
| uvirtbot` | Launchpad bug 1053514 in ceilometer "Pollster for external network traffic" [Wishlist,Confirmed] | 22:16 |
| jtran | since we won't be doing external network pollster | 22:16 |
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| dhellmann | good night! | 22:16 |
| dhellmann | jtran: yeah, I think so | 22:16 |
| jtran | ok | 22:16 |
| dhellmann | we can reopen later | 22:16 |
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| dhellmann | ttyl | 22:16 |
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| timjr | ciao | 22:17 |
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