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| jaypipes | QA meeting starting in 1 minutes... | 16:00 |
|---|---|---|
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| jaypipes | nati2, patelna, rohitk: please round up your cohorts :) | 16:00 |
| patelna | sure... | 16:00 |
| nati2 | Hi Jay! | 16:00 |
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| GavinB | Gavin is here so +1 for Nayna :) | 16:01 |
| rohitk | Hello | 16:01 |
| jaypipes | GavinB: :) | 16:01 |
| Ravikumar_hp | Ravi for Nayna | 16:01 |
| jaypipes | rohitk: evening! | 16:01 |
| patelna | Nayna is here...hey | 16:01 |
| donaldngo_hp | Hello Donald is here I am also on Nayna's team | 16:02 |
| jaypipes | westmaas, wwkeyboard: meeting time. | 16:02 |
| patelna | Rohit - I am going to be in India | 16:02 |
| rohitk | evening/afternoon, aah | 16:02 |
| patelna | we should meet F2F | 16:02 |
| rohitk | that's great | 16:02 |
| rohitk | absolutely | 16:02 |
| rohitk | we did at the ODS, if you remember :-) | 16:02 |
| * jaypipes looks around for gigi and daryll... | 16:02 | |
| Ravikumar_hp | Rohit in Pune right? | 16:02 |
| rohitk | thats right | 16:02 |
| patelna | yes...but now work on execution plans | 16:02 |
| rohitk | sure | 16:03 |
| nati2 | Hi Donald | 16:03 |
| jaypipes | OK, let's get started then... | 16:03 |
| jaypipes | #startmeeting | 16:03 |
| openstack | Meeting started Wed Oct 19 16:03:38 2011 UTC. The chair is jaypipes. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 16:03 |
| patelna | yes | 16:03 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic. | 16:03 |
| jaypipes | #topic Action items from last week... | 16:03 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Action items from last week..." | 16:03 | |
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| jaypipes | one sec, grabbing last week's link.. | 16:04 |
| jaypipes | http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/openstack-meeting/2011/openstack-meeting.2011-10-12-16.05.log.txt | 16:04 |
| donaldngo_hp | hello | 16:04 |
| jaypipes | http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/openstack-meeting/2011/openstack-meeting.2011-10-12-16.05.txt | 16:04 |
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| jaypipes | jeblair: ping | 16:05 |
| jaypipes | OK, let me go over all the stuff I failed to get done this past week... :( | 16:05 |
| rohitk | is anyone from Grid Dynamics here? | 16:05 |
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| rohitk | ok | 16:05 |
| jaypipes | jaypipes to grab all other test suites code and put into openstack-integrated-tests project, each in its own subdirectory. | 16:06 |
| jaypipes | unfortunately, I did not get around to this. :( | 16:06 |
| patelna | any ETA? | 16:06 |
| jaypipes | I should have time to do this today, however, as past week been working on glance stuff. | 16:06 |
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| jaypipes | patelna: today/EOB tomorrow at latest. | 16:06 |
| nati2 | OK, rohitk: can you do that? | 16:06 |
| patelna | ok...thanks | 16:06 |
| jaypipes | dwalleck_: afternoon :) | 16:06 |
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| dwalleck_ | Sorry I'm late, couldn't get connected for some reason | 16:07 |
| rohitk | nati2: ok | 16:07 |
| jaypipes | jaypipes to get this meeting listed on the openstack meetings ics calendar | 16:07 |
| dwalleck_ | Gigi is shoulder surfing me also | 16:07 |
| patelna | ah...nice | 16:07 |
| rohitk | jaypipes: Is this the structure? http://paste.openstack.org/show/2689/ | 16:07 |
| jaypipes | ^^ also failed to get that done... will do right after this meeting with ttx | 16:07 |
| uvirtbot | jaypipes: Error: "^" is not a valid command. | 16:07 |
| jaypipes | rohitk: yep | 16:07 |
| jaypipes | dwalleck_: cool, no worries | 16:08 |
| rohitk | jaypipes: cool | 16:08 |
| nati2 | jaypipes: ok, please assign this action for rohit | 16:08 |
| patelna | do anyone know if we have tests for Swift | 16:08 |
| wwkeyboard | jaypipes: I added a new test runner that should simplify moving to that new directory structure | 16:08 |
| jaypipes | #action jaypipes to create blueprint for integration test merging and assign to rohitk | 16:08 |
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| jaypipes | patelna: integration tests or .. ? | 16:09 |
| donaldngo_hp | https://github.com/openstack/openstack-integration-tests (Kong) is this the framework that we are agreeing to utilize and develop moving forward? | 16:09 |
| nati2 | thanks | 16:09 |
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| patelna | yes...swift integration tests | 16:09 |
| jaypipes | donaldngo_hp: no. kong is one of many... we are integration about 6 of them. | 16:09 |
| jaypipes | patelna: not that I know of, no. | 16:09 |
| Ravikumar_hp | also swift functional tests | 16:09 |
| jaypipes | Ravikumar_hp: depends what you mean by functional tests :) | 16:10 |
| dwalleck_ | jaypipes: Have we decided what the structure of the tests/test framework is going to be going forward? This is something I'm really itching to help with | 16:10 |
| dwalleck_ | I have a lot of spare time and nothing to do but design, develop and test :-) | 16:10 |
| jaypipes | dwalleck_: wwkeyboard and westmaas are working on that. I would advise getting involved in the code reviews for openstack-integration-tests. :) | 16:10 |
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| jaypipes | dwalleck_: westmaas is leading the effort to complete a best practice test runner. I would definitely hope you collaborate with wwkeyboard (Aaron Lee) and Gabe on it! | 16:11 |
| dwalleck_ | jaypipes: Sure, of course | 16:11 |
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| patelna | lJaypipes: how can we ensure we get all the tests consolidated for core products - swift, nova & glance | 16:11 |
| jaypipes | I believe jeblair sent out an email about membership for integration tests.... | 16:12 |
| jaypipes | patelna: integration tests are going into the openstack-integration-tests project. Those tests will stress the integration points between the core projects. | 16:12 |
| jaypipes | patelna: and each project has zero, some, or a lot of its own functional tests. | 16:12 |
| jaypipes | patelna: the thing that is missing is really integration tests against a cluster running a bunch of openstack projects... and that is what the openstack-integration-tests project is attempting to solve. | 16:13 |
| patelna | today, we need to talk about this... | 16:13 |
| rohitk | jaypipes: did jeblair create this group on LP/gerrit? | 16:13 |
| jaypipes | patelna: please, let's. what specific questions do you have? | 16:13 |
| dwalleck_ | jaypipes: By functional tests, do you mean black-box style or white box style? I wasn't aware there was a seperate black box test suite for Nova or other projects | 16:13 |
| donaldngo_hp | jaypipes: right now i see only Kong in the integration test project. just be clear we are going to add more frameworks into this repo? | 16:13 |
| nati2 | openstack-integration-tests project++ | 16:13 |
| jaypipes | rohitk: yes | 16:13 |
| jaypipes | dwalleck_: blackbox | 16:14 |
| patelna | consolidate all the tests that are still not contributed back to the openstack | 16:14 |
| zykes- | what meeting is going now ? | 16:14 |
| patelna | blackbox tests for core products | 16:14 |
| jaypipes | dwalleck_: and Glance has black box tests. /glance/tests/functional/ | 16:14 |
| rohitk | zykes: openstack-qa | 16:14 |
| patelna | how about swift? | 16:14 |
| jaypipes | patelna: one sec... | 16:15 |
| dwalleck_ | donaldngo_hp: I would hope as opposed to adding more frameworks, we'd be consolidating them to a single unified platform | 16:15 |
| rohitk | dwalleck_: +1 | 16:15 |
| GavinB | Has anyone defined what we would like to see in a suitable framework ? | 16:15 |
| GavinB | I have some definite opinions :) | 16:16 |
| donaldngo_hp | dwalleck: i agree a single framework. but each of these "frameworks" currently develop differ in their approach | 16:16 |
| nati2 | dwalleck_: Even if so we should share our effort at first :) | 16:16 |
| rohitk | GavinB: I too was of that opinion that we need to have a list (checklist) of features needed in that framework | 16:16 |
| rohitk | or pull in the best from the rest | 16:16 |
| jaypipes | patelna: Swift has "functional tests" (tests/functional/) but AFAICT, they are not black box. In other words, they don't spin up Swift servers and test the public API. They use internal interfaces. | 16:16 |
| dwalleck_ | gavinB: As do I. I've passed around a few things internally, as well as loosely discussed it on the list | 16:16 |
| patelna | Got it... | 16:17 |
| jaypipes | GavinB: we don't have a lack of frameworks :) We have too many of them... we just need to settle on one or combine the best of breed and focus on writing tests, not test frameworks :) | 16:17 |
| rohitk | dwalleck_, GavinB: Test data generation and data sources are high on my list | 16:17 |
| patelna | this needs to be actioned then...adding more swift tests on a runnign server? Gigi - can u take this? | 16:18 |
| nati2 | rohitk: Would you write blueprint about Test data generation and data sources? | 16:18 |
| patelna | Nati2 +1 | 16:18 |
| GavinB | jaypipes: Totally agree - but that argues for a flexible platform that can cope with tests in many forms ... so pretty high level. | 16:18 |
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| donaldngo_hp | I think a good framework to start with is Kong it tests the core REST APIs | 16:18 |
| dwalleck_ | rohitk: And for me, the test code structure and design is what I'm most worried about. I think that's going to be the key to the scalability and strength of the suite going forward | 16:18 |
| jaypipes | GavinB: sure, though I think the first step is just to get *something* going... | 16:18 |
| Ravikumar_hp | also test results in blueprint | 16:18 |
| rohitk | nati2: Sure, will need to discuss the specifics and scope | 16:19 |
| jaypipes | we can get into analysis paralysis trying to create the Uber-Framework and actually not get any test writing done :) | 16:19 |
| Ravikumar_hp | 1) Nose 2) KONG to standarize api & functional /integarion | 16:19 |
| dwalleck_ | Kong doesn't really provide a framework. It's just directly using http requests | 16:19 |
| patelna | Ravikumar_hp +1 | 16:20 |
| GavinB | jaypipes: Agree there also. We should select something and get moving - but recognise it will not solve all our needs | 16:20 |
| jaypipes | I actually don't care what it is :) I just want it done. | 16:20 |
| dwalleck_ | When I'm saying framework, I mean more along the lines of Stacktester or Zodiac did in terms of design | 16:20 |
| jaypipes | wwkeyboard: is westmaas around? | 16:20 |
| nati2 | Before test code we need specs and test scenario | 16:20 |
| GavinB | dwakkeck_ +1 | 16:20 |
| patelna | agree with jaypipes...we need tests that we can run | 16:20 |
| GavinB | dwallek_ +1 (sorry !) | 16:20 |
| nati2 | We didn't have API specs which we can use yet | 16:20 |
| wwkeyboard | jaypipes: He is in a different office. | 16:20 |
| jaypipes | wwkeyboard: oh, sorry... | 16:20 |
| dwalleck_ | nati2: I think we have docs for the API 1.1 spec | 16:21 |
| nati2 | Yes, I checked it in this week | 16:21 |
| rohitk | jaypipes: soren's branch is fine enough to begin contributing to, however the finer issues of 'no novaclient', etc remain | 16:21 |
| nati2 | But it is not cover all features in the code | 16:21 |
| westmaas | hey, sorry, bit late | 16:21 |
| rohitk | hi westmaas | 16:21 |
| jaypipes | rohitk: well that's why we're bringing in the other test suites... some of them like backfire use the novaclient. others use httplib2 calls. | 16:22 |
| nati2 | Many parameters are not documented and we only have examples | 16:22 |
| patelna | nati2 - should we do traceability matrix on that API spec to ensure we have tests? | 16:22 |
| nati2 | patelna++ | 16:22 |
| nati2 | spec and traceability matrix on that API spec | 16:22 |
| jaypipes | OK everyone.... hold up a minute... this is getting a bit freeform... let me try to give some structure to this meeting. | 16:22 |
| jaypipes | EVERYBODY STOP. :) | 16:22 |
| patelna | that's the 1st step | 16:22 |
| nati2 | jaypipes++ | 16:22 |
| jaypipes | Let us get one thing done at a time. | 16:22 |
| jaypipes | #topic integration tests status. | 16:22 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "integration tests status." | 16:22 | |
| jaypipes | westmaas: Gabe, would you care to provide a quick status update? | 16:23 |
| westmaas | sure, daryl aaron and I met just after the last meeting, and we talked through a few options, and finally settled on a lightweight runner | 16:23 |
| notmyname | jaypipes: patelna: whoever: swift's functional tests do create instances of the servers and test public APIs | 16:24 |
| westmaas | the goal of the runner is to give a unified entry point to run all suites in the project as of now | 16:24 |
| westmaas | with the expectation that those suites will be folded into a common suite as quickly as possible | 16:24 |
| westmaas | its really just a bash script that runs another script in each directory, really really straightforward | 16:24 |
| jaypipes | notmyname: the functional tests use internal objects (liek swift.Account). They are not black box -- i.e. they don't do straight HTTP calls. | 16:25 |
| westmaas | next step is a two step process I think. 1) Identifying what we are testing right now | 16:26 |
| westmaas | 2) Select how we should test moving forward | 16:26 |
| Ravikumar_hp | westmass: 3) identify the test gaps. missing tests | 16:26 |
| jaypipes | westmaas: OK, thx for the update. Question: would you prefer that rohitk simply copy/paste the other suites into directories, or copy in the test cases and in the process, convert them to use the new test runner/client? | 16:26 |
| westmaas | sounds good | 16:26 |
| rohitk | westmaas: 'all suites in the project' means that the script would identify and execute the test suites pulled in from various frameworks? | 16:26 |
| patelna | westmass; Ravikumar_hp +1 | 16:27 |
| rohitk | jaypipes: that's what I implied | 16:27 |
| rohitk | thnx | 16:27 |
| westmaas | just bringing them in is fine for a first step, since we haven't selected how to move forward | 16:27 |
| westmaas | rohitk: they just look in each directory for a certain script name, nothing more | 16:27 |
| wwkeyboard | westmaas: ++ | 16:27 |
| nati2 | westmaas: ++ nice start | 16:28 |
| jaypipes | westmaas: k. is there a wiki or etherpad you're using with wwkeyboard and dwalleck_ to track thoughts on how you'd like to move forward? | 16:28 |
| rohitk | oh, k | 16:28 |
| wwkeyboard | Just get them in one place, and running will be a start | 16:28 |
| patelna | should we organize dir structure and consolidate in one place | 16:28 |
| westmaas | patelna: yes soon | 16:28 |
| westmaas | jaypipes: no, not yet | 16:28 |
| patelna | is that waht Rohit will do? | 16:28 |
| rohitk | patelna: i'll work on that | 16:29 |
| westmaas | jaypipes: we can do that, but honestly, I think the most important thing is an inventory of what we have | 16:29 |
| jaypipes | westmaas: no probs, and agreed. | 16:29 |
| patelna | agree - we need inventory | 16:29 |
| westmaas | jaypipes: in terms of both what is covered and how its covered | 16:29 |
| nati2 | westmaas++ for inventory | 16:29 |
| jaypipes | ++ | 16:29 |
| rohitk | westmaas: getting the various suites together is alright, but i doubt that they would all run from the unified script | 16:29 |
| westmaas | rohitk: if you bring them in, can you also add to this page: http://wiki.openstack.org/openstack-integration-test-suites?highlight=%28integration%29%7C%28tests%29 | 16:29 |
| donaldngo_hp | each test framework has configuration that needs be done editing config files creating objects for swift and images for nova. How will we deal with that? | 16:30 |
| rohitk | since they were designed for different runners - nose, dtest, etc | 16:30 |
| donaldngo_hp | its not a plug and run type of thing | 16:30 |
| rohitk | donaldngo_hp: exactly | 16:30 |
| jaypipes | donaldngo_hp: the config files will depend on what system the tests are run against. | 16:30 |
| westmaas | rohitk, donaldngo_hp: right now that's all being kept inside each test suites directory | 16:30 |
| wwkeyboard | donaldngo_hp: For now they well need to be configured in their own dirs | 16:30 |
| nati2 | rohitk: we should discuss it with reading test code. | 16:30 |
| jaypipes | donaldngo_hp: would be good to have example configs, but more than that I'm not sure will be useful. | 16:30 |
| AntoniHP | donaldngo_hp: that is not as difficult, tests we run now try to detect environment they are in and the proceed accordingly | 16:31 |
| wwkeyboard | I think it will be easier/more prudent to move the missing functionality into the One True Framework than try and configure the rest automatically. | 16:31 |
| patelna | can we action this to westmass, Rohit and donald? | 16:31 |
| westmaas | another piece of inventory is what each suite cares about in terms of configuration - my guess is it is all very common with different names, all of which will inform the One True suite | 16:31 |
| dwalleck_ | westmaas: I would think as we consolidate tests, we should probably be able to consoldate configurations | 16:33 |
| jaypipes | OK, so AntoniHP, dwalleck_, rohitk: please all of you go to your Gerrit settings, click Watched Projects, and make sure you have openstack/openstack-integration-tests under your project list, and that you check all the checkboxes for notification! | 16:33 |
| jaypipes | donaldngo_hp: you too :) | 16:33 |
| rohitk | jaypipes: gotcha | 16:33 |
| donaldngo_hp | roger that | 16:33 |
| dwalleck_ | will do | 16:34 |
| nati2 | jaypipes: please include me :) | 16:34 |
| AntoniHP | ok | 16:34 |
| jaypipes | nati2: it's up to you! you have to edit your settings in Gerrit yourself ;) | 16:34 |
| jaypipes | westmaas, all: OK, are there other issues you'd like to talk about re: integration tests? | 16:34 |
| nati2 | gotcha! I misunderstood :) | 16:34 |
| jaypipes | np | 16:35 |
| rohitk | jaypipes: yes! | 16:35 |
| patelna | yes...approach to add more coverage? | 16:35 |
| jaypipes | patelna: you mean approach to track the "inventory of tests" that cover project functionality? | 16:35 |
| rohitk | not sure if many of us have really looked at lettuce, westmaas, have you? | 16:35 |
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| patelna | jaypipes - yes + add gaps | 16:36 |
| westmaas | patelna: I think we need to triage getting things running and a generic approach, I'm not sure this meeting is the right forum to plan beyond that | 16:36 |
| westmaas | patelna: at least until we have those in place | 16:36 |
| westmaas | patelna: although I 100% agree its super important | 16:36 |
| jaypipes | patelna: I think it would be useful to log bugs in the openstack-qa project on launchpad for those gaps, similar to how nati-san's team is doing for the unit test coverage | 16:36 |
| dwalleck_ | rohtik: I think moving to BDD would be a huge shift, that's something we'd really have to look into | 16:37 |
| patelna | agree | 16:37 |
| jaypipes | patelna: agree on BDD or bugs in LP? ;) | 16:37 |
| rohitk | dwalleck_: i thought so too, it might be kind of late for that | 16:37 |
| westmaas | rohitk: I have not looked | 16:37 |
| Ravikumar_hp | jaypipes : or blueprints to add/fill test gaps? | 16:37 |
| patelna | jaypipes bugs on LP | 16:37 |
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| jaypipes | Ravikumar_hp: I think bugs would be better... blueprints are more for large things... of course, we could track "Find Gaps in Swift <-> Glance Integration" in a blueprint and then have multiple bugs for the individual gaps identified, etc... | 16:38 |
| jaypipes | but I think bug reports is a good first start. | 16:38 |
| jaypipes | patelna: OK, well we made you an admin on the openstack-qa project, so you can add, assign, and target bugs in that project. I'll work with you offline to set some up to get you familiar with the proces. | 16:39 |
| patelna | ok Jaypipes | 16:39 |
| jaypipes | alright, shall we move on to a status report from nati2 on unit testing progress? | 16:39 |
| nati2 | topic "integration tests status." is finised? | 16:39 |
| dwalleck_ | But to some degree we're going to need to make some shift. We need to have one agreed-upon way of of developing these | 16:39 |
| dwalleck_ | okay, done :0 | 16:40 |
| dwalleck_ | :) | 16:40 |
| jaypipes | :), ok... | 16:40 |
| wwkeyboard | that topic will never be done | 16:40 |
| jaypipes | #topic status report from nati2 on unit tests | 16:40 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "status report from nati2 on unit tests" | 16:40 | |
| wwkeyboard | :) | 16:40 |
| jaypipes | nati2: you're up! | 16:40 |
| nati2 | ah, my irc stopped | 16:40 |
| nati2 | I added details of blueprint https://blueprints.launchpad.net/openstack-qa/+spec/nova-manager-api-policy | 16:41 |
| nati2 | https://blueprints.launchpad.net/openstack-qa/+spec/nova-input-value-validation-policy | 16:41 |
| nati2 | For input validation, we have a Idea. | 16:41 |
| nati2 | We are developing struts like input validation framework for nova | 16:41 |
| nati2 | We'll share it | 16:41 |
| jaypipes | nati2: could you elaborate a bit more on that? | 16:42 |
| nati2 | for blueprint? | 16:42 |
| nati2 | OK, I'll add more detail for each blueprints | 16:43 |
| jaypipes | nati2: :) sorry, I meant could you explain to the group here a bit more about what those blueprints are about. | 16:43 |
| nati2 | I see | 16:44 |
| nati2 | For QA, our workflow is like this. Make a spec clear, analyze gap between specs and code , write test code and fix | 16:45 |
| nati2 | But for coding level, we have no resource to make the spec clear. So we set policies. | 16:45 |
| nati2 | Nova-manager-api-policy is policy for the use of manger methods | 16:45 |
| nati2 | See this bug https://bugs.launchpad.net/openstack-qa/+bug/872445 (it is already solved for essex) | 16:46 |
| uvirtbot | Launchpad bug 872445 in nova "nova.compute.manager calls methods in nova.volume.manager directly" [Undecided,Fix committed] | 16:46 |
| nati2 | In this case, the compute manager directly calls volume manager without using it's API. | 16:46 |
| nati2 | These codings should be avoided | 16:47 |
| nati2 | Is this make sence? | 16:47 |
| jaypipes | nati2: yes, much better, thx. | 16:47 |
| jaypipes | nati2: question, though: Why is the Nova bug there marked Fix Committed? | 16:47 |
| nati2 | OK next nova-input-value-validation-policy | 16:47 |
| nati2 | Because it is fixed for essex trunk | 16:48 |
| nati2 | not for diablo stable | 16:48 |
| patelna | so u are requestign for backport into stable? | 16:48 |
| nati2 | Ah, it is problem. We are lacking workflow for bug backport | 16:49 |
| nati2 | ttx manages bug for essex | 16:50 |
| patelna | @Jaypipes? Do we have this process - any idea...backport from esses to stable branch? | 16:50 |
| patelna | sorry typo esses = essex | 16:51 |
| jaypipes | nati2: no, I'm wondering why it is marked Fix Committed, but there is no link or reference to the commit that fixed it... | 16:52 |
| nati2 | jaypipes: ah, ttx marked it as fix commied without link | 16:52 |
| jaypipes | patelna: the "process" is to propose the patch for merging into the stable-diablo branch. For these types of things, if the patch just adds test cases, I'm not sure it's a high priority backport, but if the patch fixes a known high priority bug, it should definitely be proposed for merging into stable-diablo | 16:53 |
| jaypipes | nati2: OK, no worries. I'm just curious to see if you and your team have started using Gerrit | 16:53 |
| jaypipes | nati2: I've been concerned to see a number of bazaar branches put up on Launchpad instead of git branches to Gerrit... | 16:54 |
| patelna | Thanks Jaypipes | 16:54 |
| jaypipes | patelna: no worries. probably something worth putting here: http://wiki.openstack.org/StableBranch | 16:54 |
| nati2 | Yes we will going to use git and gerrit. Thanks Jay. I shared how to use it for my japan team | 16:54 |
| jaypipes | nati2: ok, excellent. pls do let me or jeblair know if anyone needs assistance with understanding git/gerrit. | 16:55 |
| jaypipes | nati2: final question for you on the unit testing bugs... | 16:55 |
| jaypipes | nati2: Are you going to be updating the status of the openstack-qa bugs? (hint, hint) :) | 16:55 |
| nati2 | Ah, I should do it. Thanks | 16:56 |
| jaypipes | nati2: right now, they are mostly New status and unassigned... | 16:56 |
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| jaypipes | nati2: OK, I'll bug you about that later :) | 16:56 |
| jaypipes | alright, any further questions for nati-san on unit testing? | 16:56 |
| nati2 | Yes! It my action item. There are large queue on me to translate japanese bug to english ;( | 16:56 |
| jaypipes | hehe, indeed | 16:56 |
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| rohitk | nati2: I'll be there to help you | 16:57 |
| jaypipes | OK, all, we have 3 minutes left... | 16:57 |
| jaypipes | #topic Open Discussion | 16:57 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Open Discussion" | 16:57 | |
| jaypipes | anybody have anything to bring up? any concerns? | 16:57 |
| nati2 | Yes I have two | 16:58 |
| Ravikumar_hp | jaypipes: is there any docs on best practices for bugs/blueprint and git/gerrit | 16:58 |
| jaypipes | Ravikumar_hp: git/gerrit here: http://wiki.openstack.org/GerritWorkflow and http://wiki.openstack.org/GerritJenkinsGithub | 16:59 |
| nati2 | ah, we should write it. jaypipes: do you have time today? How about to create some screencast with me? | 16:59 |
| Ravikumar_hp | jaypipes: thanks | 16:59 |
| jaypipes | Ravikumar_hp: bugs here: http://wiki.openstack.org/BugTriage | 16:59 |
| jaypipes | Ravikumar_hp: and I'll put something together about blueprints and bugs for the qa team. | 16:59 |
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| nati2 | It was a little bit difficult to understand http://wiki.openstack.org/GerritWorkflow.. But may be screencast is too much | 16:59 |
| jaypipes | nati2: not today, but tomorrow, yes. | 17:00 |
| rohitk | westmaas: any pointers on the location of the entry point script? | 17:00 |
| jaypipes | nati2: also, jeblair may be able to come to the office to help with that. | 17:00 |
| nati2 | jaypipes: Thanks! I'll access to the jeblair k | 17:00 |
| westmaas | rohitk: just merged today | 17:00 |
| nati2 | I added a blueprint to API specs | 17:01 |
| nati2 | https://blueprints.launchpad.net/openstack-qa/+spec/api-specs | 17:01 |
| nati2 | and | 17:01 |
| jaypipes | OK all, I have to run... I will send a short summary to the ML about our meeting. Goodbye fo rnow! | 17:01 |
| jaypipes | #endmeeting | 17:01 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Openstack Meetings: http://wiki.openstack.org/Meetings | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/openstack-meeting/2011/" | 17:01 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Wed Oct 19 17:01:12 2011 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 17:01 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/openstack-meeting/2011/openstack-meeting.2011-10-19-16.03.html | 17:01 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/openstack-meeting/2011/openstack-meeting.2011-10-19-16.03.txt | 17:01 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/openstack-meeting/2011/openstack-meeting.2011-10-19-16.03.log.html | 17:01 |
| nati2 | Integration test scenario https://blueprints.launchpad.net/openstack-qa/+spec/integration-test-scenario | 17:01 |
| westmaas | rohitk: to run just do ./run_tests.sh kong | 17:01 |
| westmaas | (for example) | 17:01 |
| nati2 | Bye Jay! | 17:01 |
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| westmaas | patches accepted if you want to improve it - its really simple right now, not intended to be fancy! | 17:01 |
| patelna | Bye Jay | 17:01 |
| rohitk | westmaas: ok, ill check it out, i'd have quite a few questions on the unified runner, hope to get some answers on the ML! | 17:02 |
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| rohitk | jaypipes: thnx and cya! | 17:02 |
| westmaas | rohitk: sorry sir swamped by emails this week :) | 17:02 |
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| rohitk | westmaas: no problemo, as you get the time | 17:02 |
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| nati2 | OK i'll mail you about my new blueprints | 17:03 |
| nati2 | Bye! | 17:03 |
| donaldngo_hp | nice meeting you guys and look forward to working with you in the future | 17:04 |
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| debo_os_ | Time for the Donabe meeting | 21:00 |
| *** debo_os_ is now known as debo_os | 21:00 | |
| dendrobates | o/ | 21:01 |
| dendrobates | we'll see if anyone else remembers. We didn't send out a reminder | 21:02 |
| debo_os | #startmeeting | 21:02 |
| openstack | Meeting started Wed Oct 19 21:02:34 2011 UTC. The chair is debo_os. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 21:02 |
| * markvoelker lurks because he has to leave in a few minutes | 21:02 | |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic. | 21:02 |
| debo_os | #topic Donabe | 21:02 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Donabe" | 21:02 | |
| *** danwent has joined #openstack-meeting | 21:03 | |
| dendrobates | hi danwent | 21:04 |
| debo_os | hi Dan! | 21:04 |
| danwent | hey | 21:04 |
| markvoelker | o/ | 21:04 |
| debo_os | hi Mark | 21:04 |
| mtaylor | danwent: I'm supposed to be working with you on something, aren't I? | 21:04 |
| debo_os | #info Agenda | 21:04 |
| danwent | mtaylor: maybe packaging or jenkins releated? both are things we're working to take care of for quantum | 21:05 |
| debo_os | API design issues•Database layer•Transactional semantics – should we post the whole topology in 1 shot in a xml chunk or in pieces•Model driven …. Define primitives for 1) compute 2) network 3) storage•Plugins for the above primitives. Declarative languages•Pluggable module•We choose 1 default one | 21:05 |
| debo_os | sorry I cut pasted the agenda too soon | 21:05 |
| debo_os | are we the 4 of us here? | 21:07 |
| dendrobates | looks like it | 21:07 |
| debo_os | :) | 21:07 |
| debo_os | maybe we give 2 more mins and then get started? | 21:08 |
| glenc | \o | 21:08 |
| dendrobates | debo_os: sure | 21:08 |
| debo_os | debo.sleep(2m) | 21:08 |
| zykes- | question, what is donabe in a easy description? a overlaying service for the netstack ? | 21:08 |
| debo_os | well | 21:09 |
| debo_os | donabe is an abstraction of app containers that leverages services like nova and quantum | 21:09 |
| dendrobates | zykes-: or an abstraction for groups of cloud resources | 21:09 |
| debo_os | that too! Thanks Dan | 21:10 |
| zykes- | hmm, i wonder what the usage of it is | 21:10 |
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| debo_os | there are several usage models | 21:11 |
| glenc | Does Donabe only address the cloud resources themselves, or does it also work with applications within them? (i.e., can it configure an app in a virtual server) | 21:11 |
| debo_os | one possible way is http://www.slideshare.net/ddutta1/donabe-models-openstack-essex-summit | 21:11 |
| debo_os | yes Donabe is geared towards describing app behavior too | 21:12 |
| glenc | FYI, http://panelpicker.sxsw.com/ideas/view/10497 | 21:12 |
| dendrobates | glenc: we are mostly concerned with the abstraction and the ability to package that abstraction so it can be deployed | 21:12 |
| dendrobates | glenc: that is a very similar concept | 21:13 |
| glenc | Good - just making sure I'm on the right track | 21:13 |
| glenc | which is why I wanted to be here | 21:13 |
| dendrobates | glenc: I have even used oracle financials as an example | 21:14 |
| glenc | great minds think alike | 21:14 |
| dendrobates | :) | 21:14 |
| dendrobates | debo_os: ok, go | 21:14 |
| zykes- | dendrobates: werent you with rackspace earlier on ? | 21:15 |
| debo_os | good guess :) | 21:15 |
| dendrobates | zykes-: yes | 21:15 |
| debo_os | #topic agenda | 21:15 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "agenda" | 21:15 | |
| debo_os | 1. A little more about whats Donabe .... in case we need it | 21:16 |
| debo_os | 2. API and data model | 21:16 |
| debo_os | 3. Declarative languages | 21:16 |
| debo_os | anything more? | 21:16 |
| debo_os | Rick? | 21:16 |
| debo_os | Dan? | 21:16 |
| debo_os | anyone? | 21:16 |
| dendrobates | good for me | 21:17 |
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| debo_os | Shall we skip 1. | 21:17 |
| danwent | sound good for me… i'm mostly just listening in :) | 21:17 |
| debo_os | #topic API | 21:17 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "API" | 21:17 | |
| debo_os | During the summit, we agreed upon 1) recursive/nested containers | 21:18 |
| debo_os | 2) simple use case -> scalableweb<-->scalable db tiers | 21:18 |
| debo_os | 3) for essex leverage quantum and nova to stitch the containers | 21:18 |
| debo_os | 4) use a declarative language for describing configs | 21:19 |
| debo_os | for recursive containers, we need a data model | 21:20 |
| debo_os | the simple API takes in a graph (with nodes = containers, edges = container pairs that communicate) | 21:21 |
| debo_os | the data model leads to semi structured data | 21:21 |
| debo_os | hence we need a data model that will be suitable | 21:21 |
| debo_os | any comments on that> | 21:21 |
| debo_os | ? | 21:21 |
| glenc | could you also use a bill of materials type model? | 21:21 |
| debo_os | possible approaches could be xml dbs or neo4j | 21:21 |
| debo_os | glenc: in bom like models we would still need the relationships or edges | 21:22 |
| debo_os | so this graph structure is like a BOM | 21:23 |
| glenc | it is, but it doesn't have to be recursive (I'm just thinking out loud here) | 21:23 |
| debo_os | assume its non recursive for a moment ... its a good debate to have .... | 21:24 |
| debo_os | you still need a semi structured way of representing a graph | 21:24 |
| debo_os | thats why people have been looking at graph databases | 21:24 |
| debo_os | but if there is a relational way of looking at it that covers the use cases, it might be good | 21:25 |
| debo_os | in that case our higher layer graph model would then need to be mapped | 21:25 |
| debo_os | any other suggestions | 21:26 |
| debo_os | please send more suggestions to the list | 21:27 |
| debo_os | the next thing is transactional semantics | 21:27 |
| debo_os | for defining a higher layer container, you need to group smaller containers | 21:27 |
| debo_os | now we could implement the API in 2 ways | 21:28 |
| debo_os | 1st define smaller container types ... then build higher ones | 21:28 |
| debo_os | but an alt way is to define it in 1 shot ... do a POST with a blob describing the graph | 21:28 |
| debo_os | actually OVS has an app prpoosal with a graph structure too :) | 21:29 |
| debo_os | thoughts? | 21:29 |
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| danwent | OVS != open vswitch i assume? | 21:29 |
| debo_os | sorry OVF | 21:29 |
| danwent | :) | 21:29 |
| dendrobates | I'm concerned about posing a big blob | 21:29 |
| dendrobates | is that your preference? | 21:30 |
| debo_os | I am ok as long as we note that there will be transactional issues | 21:30 |
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| debo_os | we will need to have a fix for that | 21:30 |
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| debo_os | else we need a blob .... | 21:31 |
| debo_os | I prefer the blob to keep the implementation is simpler | 21:31 |
| dendrobates | can you explain the transactional issues in detail | 21:31 |
| debo_os | well say you have a big container request that has 3 smaller containers | 21:31 |
| debo_os | you need to create the smaller container requests 1st | 21:32 |
| debo_os | then the bigger one | 21:32 |
| debo_os | so you will have 4 requests | 21:32 |
| debo_os | ideally you want this is as a part of a single transaction | 21:32 |
| glenc | yes, with orchestration and rollback on error, right? | 21:32 |
| debo_os | yes | 21:33 |
| glenc | is the blob where it would contain the declarative language? | 21:33 |
| debo_os | blob would have the graph structure ... and a reference to the manifest | 21:34 |
| debo_os | because the manifest could be common for several containers | 21:34 |
| glenc | I tend to read blob as a BINARY large object, which makes me nervous - | 21:35 |
| glenc | I would hope it would be editable with standard tools | 21:35 |
| debo_os | sorry ... I should have clarified | 21:35 |
| debo_os | here a blob would mean a big xml blob | 21:35 |
| debo_os | :) | 21:35 |
| dendrobates | can we not assume xml | 21:35 |
| debo_os | we could .... I just didnt want to offend JSON people | 21:36 |
| debo_os | hence I am trying to use generic terms | 21:36 |
| debo_os | ;) | 21:36 |
| glenc | I tend to visualize it as XML (hey, I've been in IT for 20+ years) and convert mentally to json | 21:37 |
| dendrobates | I would say the representation of the containers (blobs) is up for discussion | 21:37 |
| glenc | I'm cool with it as long as it isn't really binary | 21:37 |
| glenc | or Visual BASIC | 21:38 |
| debo_os | :) | 21:38 |
| debo_os | so these are the primary things I wanted to point out form the design point of view | 21:38 |
| debo_os | please punt feedback | 21:39 |
| dendrobates | awesome | 21:40 |
| debo_os | the other things are slightly long temrs | 21:40 |
| debo_os | like what declarative languages to use | 21:40 |
| debo_os | and we want the donabe engine to be at a higher layer | 21:41 |
| debo_os | using model driven stuff | 21:41 |
| debo_os | so that we could have plugins for say things like declarative behavior engines etc | 21:41 |
| debo_os | but all that might be relevant for later discussions | 21:42 |
| debo_os | As DanW keeps saying, we need a simple demos | 21:42 |
| danwent | :) | 21:42 |
| debo_os | thats all from me | 21:42 |
| dendrobates | should we take one part and delve into it next meeting? | 21:43 |
| debo_os | I think once we have rough consensus about the graph backend, the demo is going to happen soon | 21:43 |
| dendrobates | the model perhaps | 21:43 |
| debo_os | yes .... | 21:43 |
| glenc | yes | 21:43 |
| debo_os | and the data backend | 21:43 |
| debo_os | if time permits | 21:43 |
| debo_os | any more thoughts/advice? | 21:44 |
| dendrobates | sounds good to me | 21:44 |
| dendrobates | next week we should advertise the meeting a bit more. | 21:45 |
| debo_os | all right ... bye for now | 21:45 |
| danwent | one thing... | 21:45 |
| debo_os | sure | 21:45 |
| danwent | i've heard juju brought up several times in this context. | 21:45 |
| danwent | I don't know enough about the details to know the difference, but crisp messaging of donabe vs. juju (spelling?) would be nice. | 21:45 |
| debo_os | I will let Rick answer too but juju doesnt do containers | 21:46 |
| dendrobates | debo_os: that was what I was going to say. | 21:46 |
| debo_os | It can be compared to chef / puppet | 21:46 |
| dendrobates | it's all orchestration | 21:46 |
| danwent | but orchestration of single elements only? | 21:46 |
| debo_os | for now | 21:47 |
| *** mahmoh has left #openstack-meeting | 21:47 | |
| dendrobates | I will be meeting the juju guys in a couple weeks to see where we can work together | 21:47 |
| danwent | ok, good to know. I've just been asked several times and didn't know enough to explain the difference | 21:47 |
| danwent | that's all | 21:47 |
| dendrobates | ok, now I just need to find a place to watch the world series | 21:48 |
| debo_os | #endmeeting | 21:48 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Openstack Meetings: http://wiki.openstack.org/Meetings | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/openstack-meeting/2011/" | 21:49 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Wed Oct 19 21:48:59 2011 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 21:49 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/openstack-meeting/2011/openstack-meeting.2011-10-19-21.02.html | 21:49 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/openstack-meeting/2011/openstack-meeting.2011-10-19-21.02.txt | 21:49 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/openstack-meeting/2011/openstack-meeting.2011-10-19-21.02.log.html | 21:49 |
| danwent | dendrobates, ah does that start tonight? | 21:49 |
| glenc | GO RANGERS | 21:49 |
| danwent | haha | 21:49 |
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| dendrobates | Go Cards! | 21:49 |
| glenc | y'all have a good evening | 21:50 |
| dendrobates | bye | 21:51 |
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