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| annegentle | ok, who's here for the doc team meeting? | 20:06 |
|---|---|---|
| * annegentle whistles tunelessly | 20:06 | |
| deshantm | :) | 20:06 |
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| annegentle | ok, I'm going to go ahead and start :) | 20:06 |
| annegentle | #startmeeting | 20:07 |
| openstack | Meeting started Mon Aug 15 20:07:03 2011 UTC. The chair is annegentle. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 20:07 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic. | 20:07 |
| annegentle | Welcome one and all to the OpenStack Doc Team monthly meeting | 20:07 |
| annegentle | We'll start by reviewing last month's action items. | 20:07 |
| annegentle | #topic Action items | 20:07 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Action items" | 20:07 | |
| annegentle | community accounts for http://openstack.org - request accounts through stephen.spector@openstack.org | 20:07 |
| annegentle | I'm pretty sure that people are using these mostly to blog, which is great. | 20:08 |
| annegentle | I'm going to mark it as Done. | 20:08 |
| annegentle | next one: staging area for http://openstack.org | 20:08 |
| annegentle | so, we got a little distracted/confused by a need for a staging area for http://wiki.openstack.org so we've not got a next step for this yet. I emailed Todd Morey and mtaylor to find a good next step. | 20:09 |
| annegentle | we likely need staging for both the wiki and the main site. | 20:09 |
| annegentle | I'm going to call this one In Progress. | 20:09 |
| annegentle | Next: | 20:09 |
| annegentle | Anne to add distributed scheduler to devref | 20:09 |
| annegentle | Done: http://nova.openstack.org/devref/index.html | 20:09 |
| annegentle | Next one: explore MoinMoin to DocBook paths | 20:10 |
| annegentle | Turns out in the case of the flat networking docs, copy/paste was just fine, but David Cramer and I did email some ideas for exporting MoinMoin to DocBook, he noted this MoinMoin feature: http://moinmo.in/RenderAsDocBook. | 20:10 |
| annegentle | I was concerned about security on the OpenStack wiki. You'd have to turn the feature on and then off real quick it seems, so for now, copy/paste is fine. | 20:11 |
| annegentle | Lastly, a request for a wiki page to clarify which version of the nova/euca tools work with which version of openstack distro - Not yet started. | 20:11 |
| annegentle | #info ongoing action items including staging areas for wiki and openstack.org main site; wiki page to clarify version matrix that works with moving parts of OpenStack | 20:12 |
| deshantm | is that last action item feasible at this time? | 20:12 |
| annegentle | deshantm: with just a few Q&A sessions where I started investigating, I'd say it's complicated, but not impossible | 20:13 |
| deshantm | fair enough | 20:13 |
| annegentle | deshantm: what might be easier/more feasible is "known working arrangements?" | 20:13 |
| annegentle | it seems to involve a lot of poking devs to get answers. | 20:14 |
| deshantm | yeah we could get uses to report success of running euca/nova test scripts | 20:14 |
| deshantm | s/uses/users/ | 20:14 |
| annegentle | yeah that would be a quicker method | 20:14 |
| annegentle | ok, next topics all revolve around general documentation status | 20:14 |
| annegentle | #topic openstack.org project status | 20:15 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "openstack.org project status" | 20:15 | |
| annegentle | A round of updates on openstack.org from Todd rolled out first week of August. | 20:15 |
| annegentle | #info openstack.org projects page now has Image service as a core project | 20:15 |
| annegentle | #info project pages have current features and roadmap on each individual page | 20:15 |
| annegentle | #info openstack.org company count dynamically updated on the community page | 20:16 |
| annegentle | #info Partner company logos scale to proper size | 20:16 |
| annegentle | I think those four items capture the changes. | 20:16 |
| annegentle | Like I said previously, still working on a staging area. | 20:16 |
| deshantm | 100 companies now, nice! | 20:16 |
| annegentle | Any questions about openstack.org? | 20:16 |
| annegentle | yeah, it's so cool to see it update so fast too | 20:17 |
| annegentle | updated | 20:17 |
| annegentle | #topic RST docs in each project (glance, nova, swift) | 20:17 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "RST docs in each project (glance, nova, swift)" | 20:17 | |
| annegentle | the RST docs are developer oriented - by dev for dev. | 20:17 |
| notmyname | as god intended | 20:18 |
| annegentle | One work in progress item is to get doc/man/ for man pages for all services and CLI tools. I'm tackling it little by little but certainly would invite others to do so too. I think the Swift team has intentions to store their man pages with the code like nova does. | 20:18 |
| annegentle | notmyname: preach it brother notmyname :) | 20:19 |
| notmyname | annegentle: (for the record here) one of our ops guys has proposed adding the man pages for swift to the swift codebase | 20:19 |
| annegentle | nova's man page is woefully out of date, but I've got some updates | 20:19 |
| annegentle | notmyname: excellent, thanks | 20:19 |
| annegentle | I would like to hold a week-long doc sprint sometime after code freeze, if anyone has suggestions for a week, please do propose some. | 20:20 |
| annegentle | It looks like sometime after Aug 24th would work well since the code will be "slushy" and only bug fixes accepted. | 20:21 |
| annegentle | I'm thinking a virtual doc sprint would work well, but I'm happy to host one somewhere as well, with a preference for Austin, San Antonio, or San Francisco. | 20:22 |
| annegentle | #info looking for a good week to hold a doc sprint after the Aug 24 date. | 20:22 |
| annegentle | anything else on RST docs? | 20:22 |
| annegentle | #topic DocBook docs in openstack-manuals project | 20:23 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "DocBook docs in openstack-manuals project" | 20:23 | |
| annegentle | #info I'm adding CSS OSS http://wiki.openstack.org/DocBook updates from http://code.launchpad.net/openstackbook to build automatically using our Jenkins server. | 20:23 |
| annegentle | Found out this week that the book also ships with Ubuntu Cloud. We're going to call it the OpenStack Starter Guide. Love Creative Commons licensing and a dedicated team, thank you CSS OSS! | 20:24 |
| * deshantm likes Jenkins for CI | 20:24 | |
| annegentle | yep, still working on the actual building but it's getting there. | 20:24 |
| annegentle | sure makes the possibilities for building out a library exciting. | 20:25 |
| annegentle | deshantm: you want to talk about the Hypervisor support matrix and testing? | 20:25 |
| annegentle | #link http://wiki.openstack.org/HypervisorSupportMatrix | 20:25 |
| annegentle | #topic Hypervisor support matrix | 20:26 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Hypervisor support matrix" | 20:26 | |
| deshantm | Has the matrix so far been filled in manually? | 20:26 |
| deshantm | And now we are working on making automated tests? | 20:26 |
| deshantm | I didn't hear back from soren or jaypipes | 20:26 |
| annegentle | deshantm: yes, that's right. Mostly with notes from Rajesh interviewing vishy and others. | 20:26 |
| * vishy looks around | 20:27 | |
| * vishy disappears in a puff of smoke | 20:27 | |
| annegentle | testing has been fragmented, last I heard soren is working on all quality efforts | 20:27 |
| jaypipes | deshantm: not quite sure what you are asking for.... mtaylor is responsible for the CI infrastructure, but what kind of automated tests specifically are you asking about (because there are many...) | 20:28 |
| deshantm | I'd like to establish if libvirt is used for KVM, the normal Xen hypervisor etc. or is KVM/Xen called directly at times? | 20:28 |
| jaypipes | deshantm: libvirt is used for KVM | 20:28 |
| deshantm | Also, there is a distinction between libvirt-based hypervisors and XenAPI-based hypervisors | 20:29 |
| jaypipes | deshantm: for Xen, Xen is called directly | 20:29 |
| deshantm | jaypipes: for Xen there you must mean XenServer right? | 20:29 |
| soren | I'm working on generating this stuff mostly automatically. | 20:29 |
| jaypipes | deshantm: yes, KVM, LXC use libvirt. XenServer/XCP uses straight XenServer calls | 20:29 |
| jaypipes | deshantm: you can check out the code in /nova/virt/ | 20:30 |
| deshantm | Xen (not XCP nor XenServer) can also be supported via libvirt | 20:30 |
| soren | So, i'll be cleaning things up to make sure that everything returns NotImplementedErrors when there's something they don't implement. During the test suite run, I track this, and dump it in a file that I'll then parse and generate the support matrix from. | 20:30 |
| jaypipes | deshantm: yes, but it's not AFAIK | 20:30 |
| jaypipes | deshantm: meaning if you choose Xen, we use the XenServer/XCP driver in /nova/virt/xenapi IIRC | 20:31 |
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| deshantm | soren: wasn't there some libvirt/Xen testing done early on (not XenServer/XenAPI-based), but normal Xen | 20:31 |
| soren | deshantm: Yes. | 20:31 |
| annegentle | it would be great to use test results as "documentation" for what works on which release/revno | 20:32 |
| deshantm | with Xen support coming back to Ubuntu, shouldn't we consider Xen a fist class citizen again | 20:32 |
| deshantm | 11.10 will have dom0 tech preview | 20:32 |
| deshantm | 12.04 should have Xen in main | 20:32 |
| deshantm | The Xen.org team is able to help work through any issues | 20:33 |
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| deshantm | also from the XenAPI side of things, do you guys need any help from the Citrix devs to make sure those tests are automated? | 20:34 |
| annegentle | sore: this generated support matrix from test suite results - what will it look like, where will you publish it? | 20:35 |
| soren | annegentle: No clue yet. | 20:35 |
| soren | annegentle: It's not going to be done any time soon. There's a massive amount of work to be done before everything is covered by tests. | 20:36 |
| soren | ...and until then I can't extract this information. | 20:36 |
| deshantm | there has been a fair amount of use/testing going on with XCP/XenServer + OpenStack lately | 20:36 |
| annegentle | soren: sounds like calling in some supporting teams to send in tests is a good idea then | 20:36 |
| annegentle | #action: deshantm, soren, jaypipes, mtaylor pow-wow about test automation | 20:37 |
| annegentle | mind if I move to next topic? | 20:37 |
| soren | hang on. | 20:37 |
| annegentle | sure, go ahead | 20:38 |
| soren | deshantm: This isn't about people trying stuff out in various configurations.. This is about actual unit test coverage. | 20:38 |
| deshantm | soren: yeah, i understand that | 20:38 |
| soren | It's also not about automating a set of existing tests. | 20:38 |
| soren | It's about writing a mind numbing amount of unit tests for all the stuff that has no coverage whatsoever at the moment. | 20:38 |
| deshantm | right, I get that.. that is why I think there is an issue with the matrix | 20:39 |
| soren | I just want to manage expectations here :) | 20:39 |
| annegentle | so, is the matrix only going to be manual for a while? | 20:39 |
| soren | It's not going to be done in a week or two or three. It'll be a *while*. | 20:39 |
| annegentle | #undo | 20:39 |
| soren | annegentle: Yes. | 20:39 |
| openstack | Removing item from minutes: <MeetBot.items.Action object at 0x1a51450> | 20:39 |
| deshantm | i think it may give users a wrong impression of what is possible for each of the hypervisors | 20:39 |
| jaypipes | http://wiki.openstack.org/GlanceFeatureMatrix | 20:40 |
| jaypipes | I keep ^^ up to date manually... | 20:40 |
| annegentle | #info automated tests aren't just about various configurations, there is a gap in actual unit test coverage | 20:40 |
| deshantm | so it's non-trivial, but Xen.org/Citrix is willing to help on the Xen sides of things | 20:41 |
| annegentle | #info manually compiled support matrices may give users less info and not specify what is possible with each hypervisor | 20:41 |
| deshantm | we just need to know what help we should provide | 20:42 |
| annegentle | #info tradeoff and balancing act is in the amount of work for automated testing and configurations available. | 20:42 |
| annegentle | I still think there's an action in there for you guys to discuss further. | 20:42 |
| annegentle | could we take this to the next CI meeting? It's tomorrow, right? | 20:43 |
| deshantm | http://wiki.openstack.org/Meetings/CITeamMeeting | 20:43 |
| annegentle | yup. I'll update that agenda. | 20:44 |
| annegentle | ok, last topic under status updates is for deshantm to fill us in on the XenServer plugin | 20:44 |
| annegentle | #topic Discuss XenServer Plugin status and docs | 20:44 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Discuss XenServer Plugin status and docs" | 20:44 | |
| deshantm | ok so we are building the openstack xenapi plugins to an RPM with an internal jenkins instance | 20:45 |
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| deshantm | The yum repo is here: | 20:45 |
| deshantm | #link http://downloads.xen.org/XCP/openstack/openstack-xen-plugins/ | 20:46 |
| deshantm | #action deshantm to test and document usage of XenAP-based hypervisors | 20:46 |
| deshantm | any questions? | 20:47 |
| annegentle | nice, that was one of the dependencies for starting to document deployment practices? We keep sending people to the wiki page, http://wiki.openstack.org/XenServerDevelopment, but would love deployment-oriented doc.s | 20:47 |
| deshantm | yeah, that's the plan | 20:47 |
| annegentle | excellent. I should be able to test your instructions and review as you see fit. | 20:48 |
| deshantm | great, thanks | 20:48 |
| annegentle | #topic Doc bugs | 20:48 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Doc bugs" | 20:48 | |
| annegentle | Triaging and fixing as I go, you can always send people there if they want small doc tasks. | 20:49 |
| annegentle | link: https://bugs.launchpad.net/openstack-manuals | 20:49 |
| annegentle | #link https://bugs.launchpad.net/openstack-manuals | 20:50 |
| annegentle | and also the ones tagged "documentation" gathered from all the openstack projects | 20:50 |
| annegentle | #link https://bugs.launchpad.net/openstack/+bugs?field.tag=documentation | 20:50 |
| annegentle | ok, just 10 minutes to go, how about open discussion? | 20:50 |
| annegentle | #topic Open discussion | 20:50 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Open discussion" | 20:51 | |
| annegentle | #info Project policy board voted to standardize tools for OpenStack projects and I'd like the docs to follow suit. | 20:51 |
| deshantm | can this (https://bugs.launchpad.net/~openstack-doc) link to that one | 20:51 |
| annegentle | deshantm: sure, I think so. | 20:51 |
| annegentle | though I like the "There are currently no open bugs" ha ha. | 20:52 |
| deshantm | so things are moving to git right? | 20:52 |
| annegentle | I want to move from Launchpad to Github and store source using git by October (in time for the Oct 3-5 Design Summit). Any Gotchas or potholes to discuss? Considerations for docs or reasons not to are certainly welcome as well. | 20:52 |
| annegentle | deshantm: only code hosting is moving to git. Bugs, blueprints, stay in Launchpad | 20:53 |
| deshantm | code in git for docs works fine for me, I can't think of any issues | 20:53 |
| annegentle | deshantm: ok, great. So far I haven't heard any compelling reasons not to. | 20:54 |
| annegentle | or any reasons not to :) | 20:54 |
| deshantm | can we start by mirroring to github and using it by default or something? | 20:54 |
| annegentle | #info OpenStack docs want to move from Launchpad to Github and store source using git by October (in time for the Oct 3-5 Design Summit). | 20:54 |
| annegentle | deshantm: I haven't even looked at the first steps yet, if mirroring is the right first step then we can do that. | 20:55 |
| annegentle | mtaylor has offered to help out | 20:55 |
| deshantm | others probably know the process better | 20:55 |
| annegentle | #action annegentle to work on process for getting to git | 20:55 |
| deshantm | I'm happy to start using git for docs when it is ready to test | 20:55 |
| deshantm | just let me know | 20:55 |
| annegentle | my only first step has been reading "Pro Git" thanks to David Cramer pointing it out | 20:56 |
| jaypipes | annegentle: http://wiki.openstack.org/GerritWorkflow | 20:56 |
| annegentle | #link http://progit.org/2010/05/17/progit-for-the-ipad.html | 20:56 |
| annegentle | thanks jaypipes | 20:56 |
| jaypipes | np | 20:56 |
| annegentle | #link http://wiki.openstack.org/GerritWorkflow | 20:56 |
| annegentle | Ok, any other open discussion items/ | 20:56 |
| deshantm | nothing else here | 20:57 |
| annegentle | If not, I'll close out the meeting. | 20:57 |
| annegentle | Ok, thanks for all the good discussion. I'll report it up to the team meeting tomorrow. | 20:57 |
| annegentle | #endmeeting | 20:57 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Openstack Meetings: http://wiki.openstack.org/Meetings | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/openstack-meeting/2011/" | 20:57 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Mon Aug 15 20:57:48 2011 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 20:57 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/openstack-meeting/2011/openstack-meeting.2011-08-15-20.07.html | 20:57 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/openstack-meeting/2011/openstack-meeting.2011-08-15-20.07.txt | 20:57 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/openstack-meeting/2011/openstack-meeting.2011-08-15-20.07.log.html | 20:57 |
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| mtaylor | annegentle: and yeah - happy to help | 21:20 |
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