Friday, 2010-08-27

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spy#startmeeting01:56
open_stackMeeting started Fri Aug 27 01:56:09 2010 UTC.  The chair is spy. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.01:56
open_stackUseful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic.01:56
spy#action blah blah01:56
spy#agreed blah blah01:56
spy#info blah blah01:56
spy#endmeeting01:56
open_stackMeeting ended Fri Aug 27 01:56:31 2010 UTC.  Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4)01:56
open_stackMinutes:        http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/openstack-meeting/2010/openstack-meeting.2010-08-27-01.56.html01:56
open_stackMinutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/openstack-meeting/2010/openstack-meeting.2010-08-27-01.56.txt01:56
open_stackLog:            http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/openstack-meeting/2010/openstack-meeting.2010-08-27-01.56.log.html01:56
spydendro-afk: should be ready to go02:14
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pvodendrobates: you make it back?16:54
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sorenAha! Way more people in here than in #openstack-meeting on OFTC :)17:00
gholtHeh17:01
comstudhehehe17:01
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jk0h3h317:01
comstudt33h3317:02
_0x44soren: A meeting by yourself on another network is probably the easiest way to get everyone to agree to whatever your demands are :)17:02
comstudthat's true17:02
soren_0x44: Oh, it was very productive. :)17:03
sorendendrobates: I assume you're chairing?17:03
kirklandsoren: dendrobates is having some connectivity issues17:04
kirklandsoren: he will be here shortly17:04
sorencool beans17:04
dendrobates#startmeeting17:04
open_stackMeeting started Fri Aug 27 17:04:28 2010 UTC.  The chair is dendrobates. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.17:04
open_stackUseful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic.17:04
dendrobateshello17:04
pvophew, it worked. :)17:04
_0x44pvo: Is he connected over your nexus one?17:04
pvo_0x44: hopefully over his nexus one. : )17:05
jk0hah17:05
spyyay17:05
dendrobates#link http://wiki.openstack.org/Meetings17:05
dendrobatesI am lagging a bit so if I drop I will need someone to take over17:05
dendrobatesTopic:  Release17:06
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dendrobates#topic Blueprints17:07
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dendrobatesdamn meetbot17:07
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dendrobatesfirst I wan to talk about what we want the austin release to be.17:07
dendrobatesWe doing time based not feature based releases17:08
dendrobateswith the caveat that we might slip a date only if a mandatory feature is not ready.17:08
dendrobatesbut we don;t expect that to happen.17:09
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dendrobatesThe mandatory features for Austin are:17:09
dendrobatesRackspace API17:09
dendrobatesImage caching service17:09
dendrobatesXen support17:09
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claygImage caching service == Glance ?17:10
dendrobateseverything else only goes in if it is ready by feature freeze and stable by final freeze17:10
dendrobatesclayg: yes17:11
dendrobatesdo the swift guys have any required features?17:11
pvowhat about the pluggable scheduler for nova? Is that mandatory?17:11
claygis rconradharris here?17:11
_0x44dendrobates: We need to #info that for the meetbot to log it.17:11
_0x44#info mandatory features for austin are: Rackspace API, Image Caching Service, Xen support17:11
dubsclayg: yes, that is sirp117:11
sirp1*rconradharris*17:11
dendrobatesmeetbot is not responding17:11
pvoit doesn't while in flight17:12
spydendrobates: it doesn't respond for info17:12
dendrobateshmm17:12
gholtFor Swift, Very Large File Support is required, I have many more desired.17:12
dendrobatesok17:12
pvo#help17:12
dendrobatesgholt: what about nova auth for swirt17:12
dendrobatesrequired or not?17:12
gholtUnsure on that. I'd like a separate Scalable Auth Project. I've been working on Swauth to hopefully fill that gap, but..17:13
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_0x44#info swift mandatory features for austin: very large file support, more desired17:13
dendrobatesok, we will not make it a req, if it gets done it gets done.17:13
dubsgholt: are public containers in swift set for Austin?17:13
gholtI hope so, and they should be barring performance problems.17:14
gholtThey are second on my list. :)17:14
pvodubs: that what I heard.17:14
dendrobatesSo everybody should have gotten the message that for every feature we need a blueprint and spec by next friday17:14
dendrobatesI will be glad to help anyone that needs it17:15
gholtYes, I've been putting that off, sorry. I'll do that today/this-weekend for what I see in Swift.17:15
letterjWhat are we going to use for a mulit-server test/qa lab?17:16
gholtI love for bringing that up. :)17:16
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letterjIs having a test/qa lab a requirement for the release?17:17
dendrobatesWe have a couple of options, we can use soren's uml work to do some testing in the rackspace cloud17:17
dendrobatesand we will have to spin up some servers in the rackspace lab for bare metal testing17:17
pvoI think the concern is how to measure performance impacts for large clusters17:18
dendrobatesNASA might be able to help with testing as well.17:18
letterjthere is no public access in the rackspace lab.  (Something to keep in mind)17:18
gholtIs the funding in place, ongoing for a Rackspace sponsored lab? Will it be accessible to all contributors? etc.17:18
dendrobatesWe need a in depth test plan, which we donot have yet.17:18
letterjI'm assuming blueprints will be needed for that?17:19
pvodendrobates: you or I can take that as an action item17:19
pvoits a discussion point first before we have blueprint, no?17:19
dendrobates#action find out about rackspace test lab for qa17:20
pvo#action Determine testing/qa environments for OpenStack17:20
pvoheh17:20
letterjI'll be happy to help with the swift side as much as I can17:20
dendrobatesa blueprint for what, testing?17:20
letterjyes testing and qa process17:20
pvoyea, to find out about testing17:20
dendrobatesI hadn't thought that we would, but it is a good idea17:21
dendrobates#action create a testing/QA blueprint17:22
dendrobatesDoes anyone have any questions about blueprints?17:22
dendrobatesIs there anyone else that would volunteer to help others with Blueprints?17:22
gholtThere will definitely be some lab contention, so getting your-favorite-feature-to-be-tested on some list will help. "You get x days in the lab starting on y, succeed or unmerge" :)17:23
pvoi guess we can explore UML in the public cloud, no?17:23
spyreally if we could get some sort of openstack images in the cloud, we could spin up an environment very easily17:23
spywe could have the images check out the latest code as they come on-line or something17:23
sorenpvo: Yeah, with my last few patches to libvirt, its UML support seems to be in really good shape.17:24
spyprobably wouldn't be ideal for performance but integration testing17:24
dendrobatesthat's a good thing about having Rackspace as a primary sponsor servers galoree17:24
pvosoren: yea, thats exactly what I was thinking.17:24
dendrobatesthe topic is still blueprints17:25
dendrobatesare there any more questions about them?17:25
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sorenMy primary motivation for doing that work was exactly for testing, but of course we still need testing with serious hypervisors.17:25
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dendrobatesdoes everyone understand what needs to be done?17:25
dendrobatesI will take silence as yes17:25
littleideais there a good document that explains blueprints and how to use them/interact with the community through them?17:26
dendrobateslittleidea: I'm not sure. There should be.  I'll ask the launchpad folks17:26
dendrobatesif I find anything, I'll send it to the openstack ml17:27
_0x44Are we still using the etherpad to do the writeups of the blueprints since the blueprint UI was so abysmal?17:27
* _0x44 remembers some discussion about that in #openstack17:27
edayhttps://help.launchpad.net/Blueprint  is a good start17:27
sirp1#link https://help.launchpad.net/Blueprint17:27
sorenhttps://edge.launchpad.net/+tour/feature-tracking  perhaps17:27
sorenErr... without "edge.".17:28
dendrobatesthey need to end up in lainchpad so I can track and approve them17:28
soren#link https://launchpad.net/+tour/feature-tracking17:28
dendrobatesI think we need a naming scheme for blueprints too17:28
dendrobatesany suggestions?17:28
pvocan you give an example?17:29
kirkland$(tempfile)17:29
pvoare you meaning if we want it in austin, it would be austin-someniftyfeature ?17:29
dendrobatesopenstack-$release-feature17:29
pvoworks for me17:29
claygand if it's not ready for release... does it get renamed to try for next time?17:29
dendrobatesor openstack-component-release-feature17:29
dendrobatesor ...17:30
dendrobatesyes17:30
pvojust nitpicking, but is the 'openstack' part redundant?17:30
_0x44If they're already associated with a17:30
_0x44Err what pvo said17:30
dendrobatestrue,17:30
_0x44Would release-component-feature be better?17:30
_0x44That way they're grouped by release17:30
pvoyes17:30
dendrobatesbut shutup :)17:30
eday_0x44: yeah, there is a wiki/spec link on the blueprint, and I've been linking ehterpad docs to those that need more17:30
_0x44And then by component17:30
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_0x44eday: I think people have preferred the etherpad docs to the wiki/spec stuff attached to the blueprints. I guess we can use both, but it would be nice if we only had to worry about one.17:31
eday_0x44: well, they don't really overlap.. etherpad is just the description.. blueprints have assignment, project tracking, dependencies, ...17:32
spymight be a good idea to work in etherpad, and once the doc is completed update it in the blueprint17:32
edayI would say don't put the release name in the blueprint, since we have URLs like this to do that for us: https://blueprints.launchpad.net/nova/austin17:33
_0x44eday: No, I meant use etherpad instead of the wiki/spec, not instead of the blueprint.17:33
jaypipesspy: ++17:33
edaylots of renaming if a feature doesn't make a release17:33
eday_0x44: oh, yeah17:33
_0x44Are we doing blueprints in each component or in the umbrella project?17:34
eday_0x44: I've been using etherpad over the wiki17:34
daboeday: +117:34
jaypipes_0x44: good question.17:34
_0x44If we do them in the components, then the naming scheme is just "feature name"17:34
jaypipes_0x44: I prefer to put them in the specific project unless the blueprint touches multiple projects...17:34
edayjaypipes: ++, and if they do touch many, it's probably going to actually be in another project like openstack-common :)17:35
jaypipes_0x44: or "feature-category-feature-name" ... example: data-model-support-sqlite ?17:35
jaypipeseday: yeah, agreed.17:35
_0x44jaypipes I'd prefer a different delimiter than hyphen in that case.17:36
dendrobatesok I'm back17:37
jaypipes_0x44: sure, no worries...17:37
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dendrobatesdid we come to agreement on bluepprint naming?17:37
_0x44dendrobates: Blueprints in the umbrella project or in the component projects?17:37
jaypipes_0x44: any prefix is fine.  Consistency is my only need17:37
dendrobatesumbrella17:37
_0x44WHy?17:38
* jaypipes votes for blueprints in subproject17:38
* _0x44 agrees with jaypipes17:38
dendrobatesjaypipes: why?17:38
_0x44(shock, horror)17:38
jaypipesdendrobates: for blueprints that touch on multiple projects, use the openstack-common project.17:38
jaypipesdendrobates: and for blueprints that affect things like the unified build and packaging platforms (like Hduson/Tarmac), put the blueprint in the umbrella project17:39
dendrobatesI am concerned with tracking the whole project and ensuring all the subprojects are on track17:39
dendrobatesok, I see17:39
dendrobatesI'm talking about naming only17:39
edaydendrobates: you still cna if they are created in the context of a project17:39
dendrobatesnot obout where we create them17:39
jaypipesdendrobates: I understand that concern, but Nova devs don't necessarily want to sift through Swift blueprints and vice versa...17:39
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_0x44dendrobates: Right, but if they're tracked in the sub project they won't need a project prefix.17:40
dendrobatesthe will all show up in the umbrella project any way, so I agree17:40
dendrobatesI would still like a prefix17:40
_0x44We can use "feature-categoryDELIMITERfeature-name"17:40
jaypipesdendrobates: ah, sorry. misunderstood.  I think it would be a better idea (than prefixing blueprint names with the project name) to bug the LP team to have better search/filtering for lists of blueprints! :)17:40
_0x44^^^ +117:40
gholtAh, do the blueprints float up to the umbrella?17:41
* jaypipes has had a beef with the blueprints filtering ability for a while now..17:41
dendrobateslet me check , I assumed so.17:41
edaygholt: they do, see: https://blueprints.launchpad.net/openstack/17:41
jaypipesgholt: yes17:41
gholtGotcha. They do have the project column though...17:41
jaypipesgholt: which would be great if we could filter the list by project... :)17:41
gholtWell, none of the project workers would use that, just dendrobates. :)17:41
edayjaypipes: just add project to that URL :)17:42
dendrobatesyes17:42
dendrobatesant it list the sub project17:42
_0x44dendrobates: Each blueprint is already labeled by project17:42
dendrobatesweeeeee17:42
jaypipesgholt: hey, poison frog is important, too ;)17:42
jaypipes_0x44, eday: hmm, that's new.  cool.. much beter.17:42
_0x44jaypipes: Only because Destro hangs with the Baronness17:42
jaypipeshehe17:42
dendrobatesso are we in agreement?17:43
jaypipesOK, so does that settle the prefix-with-project debate?17:43
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jaypipes++ from me.17:43
dendrobatesblueprints under the subproject named - $release-feature?17:43
dendrobatesor did I miss something else?17:43
_0x44dendrobates: We sort of decided not to prefix with release name17:44
edaydendrobates: I think we decided without project name in there, since that is already a field17:44
_0x44Because if it gets dumped from a release we have to rename it.17:44
pvoso, just feature, under the subproject17:44
gholtSeries is also a blueprint column. :)17:44
gholtSo just component/feature is fine by me. Hehe17:45
dendrobatesI want release in the name17:45
edaydendrobates: why?17:45
_0x44So $feature_category/$feature17:45
dendrobatesthey are trivial to change17:45
_0x44?17:45
dendrobatesand they help with sorting.17:45
sorenSearchability.17:45
sorenStuff doesn't land on b.l.n/openstack/austin (as an example) until it's actually been approved for that release.17:46
soren...so until then, the only way to filter stuff is by name.17:46
sorenIIRC.17:46
dendrobatesso let me repeat I want the release as a prefix17:46
gholtsoren: Ah, gotcha17:46
dendrobatesit also let's you weed out old bluprints17:46
jaypipesdendrobates: I strongly disagree with that, having been the person to rename crap-tons of blueprints in the past...17:46
edaysoren: but then as features slip we need to rename them all :)17:47
dendrobatesjaypipes: let;s agree to disagree.   I have also renamed a crap ton of blueprints17:47
_0x44I think we can probably compromise on this by allowing dendrobates release names in blueprints, but if they slip he has to rename them.17:47
dendrobatesor delegate someone to do it17:47
_0x44I dunno, if you want them this badly, you should be prepared to do the effort of maintaining them.17:48
jaypipesdendrobates: I agree to that, as long as I never am the delegate ;)17:48
dendrobatesagreed17:48
edayor the folks assigned can rename their own so it's not just one.. spread the burden. but anyways, not a big deal :)17:49
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dendrobatesit is probably a candidate for a simple script17:49
* jaypipes disagrees for another reason... if I post something on a mailing list referencing the blueprint, and it is renamed because of a release slip, the link is now defunct...17:49
edayalthough I would file this as a LP feature request, since this is redundant info in their system17:50
dendrobateseday17:50
dendrobatestrue17:50
edaybut we can have that discussion later17:50
dendrobatesCan we do it this release and revisit at the dev summit?17:51
dendrobatesWe can invite the LP devs17:51
jaypipesdendrobates: fine by me.17:51
edaysounds good17:51
dendrobatesok17:51
dendrobatesso for this release $(release)-feature17:52
dendrobatesname me as the approver.17:52
dendrobatesSept 3 is the deadline17:52
dendrobatesany last questions.17:52
jaypipesnope17:52
_0x44None here17:53
dendrobatesgreat17:53
edaythis may be more dev/process, but do we want to use milestones for smaller releases? ie, every two weeks or something?17:53
eday(since this relates to blueprints, being a field in them)17:53
dendrobatesI was thinking of using milestones for release cycle stuff17:53
dendrobatessuch as feature freeze, Beta, and RC17:54
dendrobatesLet's take this discussion to the mailing list for time sake.17:55
edayok... just thinking if you only get a PPA update/tarball every 3-6 months.. is that often enough?17:55
dendrobatesI think we should have daily builds, and then a beta, release candidate, ...17:56
dendrobatesin a 6 mo release we can insert more.17:56
edayk17:56
dendrobatesbtw, it has been suggested that we have two more 3 month releases before switching to a 6 month schedule.17:57
dendrobates#topic release schedule17:57
*** open_stack changes topic to "release schedule"17:58
dendrobatesis there anyone who disagrees with that?17:58
dendrobatescountdown 517:58
dendrobates417:58
dendrobates317:58
dendrobates217:58
dendrobates117:58
dendrobatesdone17:58
dendrobateswe are running out of time let move the remaining topics to the mailing list, except meeting time17:59
sorenWell..17:59
dendrobatestoo late!!!!!!!! :)17:59
sorenDoes that mean we'll have an extra summit?17:59
edaysounds good, and I wouldn't be opposed to keeping 3 month indefinitely :)17:59
dendrobatesno, the next summit will cover 2  three month releases17:59
sorenAlright.17:59
dendrobates#topic meeting time18:00
*** open_stack changes topic to "meeting time"18:00
sorenI'd very much like to discuss this meeting time, by the way.18:00
sorenOh18:00
sorenHeh :)18:00
dendrobatesI want to move it to 3am DK time.18:00
soren+118:00
edaysoren: because it's friday night, or just any night?18:01
sorenI've said it many times before. Middle of the night beats the 5-8 pm slot any day.18:01
dendrobatesso next week I want to keep the day the same, because of the blueprint deadline18:01
dendrobatesafter that we should move to a more reasonable day18:01
soreneday: I'd be cool with a couple of hours later if it was a different day.18:01
dendrobatesbut does anyone have a better time suggestion18:01
soreneday: Tuesday 1900 UTC?18:02
sorenErr..18:02
sorenNot just to eday, obviously :)18:02
dendrobatesA couple hours later might allow our friends in Asia to patrticipate18:02
sorenI work late Tuesdays anyway, so that would be ideal for me.18:03
_0x44How abotu 1530 or 1600 CDT next friday, then we move to Tuesdays?18:03
dendrobatesafter next week18:03
dendrobatesgreat, but I think that is VERY early in Japan, where I know we have people that want to participate18:04
sorenHow long do we expect the meetings to be? If they're capped at 1 hour, 1600 CDT (2100 UTC, right?) is fine.18:04
soren....while we're in DST, at least.18:05
dendrobatesthat is 6am in Japan,18:05
dendrobateswhich is better than this,18:05
_0x44So 1900 CDT?18:05
dendrobatesbut 10pm for most of EU18:06
dendrobatesworks for me.18:06
_0x44That's really late in the EU though.18:06
soren1600 CDT is 2300 for EU.18:06
sorenWell, mainland EU.18:06
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ttxI think there is no time that can fit all. Even USwestcoast + europe is difficult, without considering Japan.18:07
dendrobateshow about 3 hours forward 20:00 UTC18:07
dendrobateshttp://goo.gl/tdg018:07
dendrobatesanyone18:08
sorenThat's fine with me.18:08
sorenPerfect, even.18:08
_0x441500 CDT is fine18:09
dendrobatesany other Europeans want to comment?18:09
sorenIt's outside business hours, but also outside family time. => me happy18:09
sorenEr... Hang on.18:09
sorenWhich day?18:09
dendrobatesnext week it is friday18:09
dendrobatesafter that we will change it18:09
sorenWicked.18:09
dendrobatescountdown for objections 518:10
dendrobates418:10
dendrobates318:10
dendrobates218:10
dendrobates118:10
dendrobates#item next release meeting http://goo.gl/WHj218:11
dendrobatesWe've gone over18:11
dendrobatesany last items?18:11
dendrobatesok, continue discussions on #openstack if you want18:12
dendrobates#endmeeting18:12
*** open_stack changes topic to "Next OpenStack release meeting on Friday August 27th 17:00UTC/12:00CDT http://wiki.openstack.org/Meetings"18:12
open_stackMeeting ended Fri Aug 27 18:12:23 2010 UTC.  Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4)18:12
open_stackMinutes:        http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/openstack-meeting/2010/openstack-meeting.2010-08-27-17.04.html18:12
open_stackMinutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/openstack-meeting/2010/openstack-meeting.2010-08-27-17.04.txt18:12
open_stackLog:            http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/openstack-meeting/2010/openstack-meeting.2010-08-27-17.04.log.html18:12
dendrobatesthanks everyone18:12
_0x44Thanks dendrobates18:12
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vishyso my timing was off on the meeting :)20:58
vishyI hope it went well20:58
xfrogman5Missed it by that much... :-)21:04
xfrogman5vishy: the minutes are available21:05
vishyxfrogman: cool, reading them now21:17
vishyxfrogman5: cool, reading them now21:17
vishy\win 221:22
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