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| tbarron | #startmeeting manila | 15:00 |
|---|---|---|
| openstack | Meeting started Thu Jan 17 15:00:28 2019 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is tbarron. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 15:00 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 15:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: manila)" | 15:00 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'manila' | 15:00 |
| bswartz | .o/ | 15:00 |
| ganso | hello | 15:01 |
| carthaca | hi | 15:01 |
| tbarron | ping amito | 15:01 |
| tbarron | ping xyang | 15:01 |
| tbarron | ping toabctl | 15:01 |
| xyang | hi | 15:01 |
| tbarron | ping vkmc | 15:01 |
| tbarron | gouthamr is on PTO till Tuesday | 15:02 |
| tbarron | Hi folks | 15:02 |
| tbarron | small group today | 15:02 |
| bswartz | No trout slapping gouthamr today :-( | 15:02 |
| tbarron | I'll wait a couple more minutes | 15:02 |
| tbarron | bswartz: hopefully he's fishing or doing something fun in the Pacific NW besides watching Clemson football | 15:03 |
| tbarron | ok, lets' start | 15:03 |
| tbarron | #topic Agenda https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Manila/Meetings | 15:04 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Agenda https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Manila/Meetings (Meeting topic: manila)" | 15:04 | |
| tbarron | it's short, so if you have updates please make them | 15:04 |
| *** carlos_silva has joined #openstack-meeting-alt | 15:04 | |
| tbarron | and tell me to reload my browser | 15:04 |
| tbarron | #topic Announcements | 15:05 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Announcements (Meeting topic: manila)" | 15:05 | |
| tbarron | I indicated previously that I planned to do library releases (manila-ui, python-manilaclient) around M2 | 15:05 |
| tbarron | M2 was last week and I still haven't done them yet b/c | 15:05 |
| tbarron | I want to get the functional job for py3 in the client merged first | 15:06 |
| tbarron | it's imminent | 15:06 |
| tbarron | The other announcement is that we didn't have a (virtual) mid-cycle this week even | 15:06 |
| tbarron | though we had discussed doing so earlier. | 15:06 |
| tbarron | Everyone I know was quite busy, not lacking for direction either. | 15:07 |
| tbarron | Is anyone direly missing the mid-cycle this time? | 15:07 |
| *** jgrosso has joined #openstack-meeting-alt | 15:08 | |
| tbarron | OK, if you really want to do this, ping me and we'll talk about it. | 15:08 |
| vkmc | o/ | 15:08 |
| bswartz | What is the plan for sync ups going forward? | 15:08 |
| tbarron | Otherwise I'm going to assume no need this cycle. | 15:08 |
| bswartz | Are they going to be towards the middle of cycles or around release time? | 15:08 |
| tbarron | bswartz: glad you asked. | 15:08 |
| tbarron | PTG is scheduled for right after the Denver summit. | 15:09 |
| bswartz | For this cycle I don't feel like the lack of a sync up is hurting me | 15:09 |
| tbarron | I was polled asking if manila wanted space and replied yes. | 15:09 |
| bswartz | And are the summits offset from the release by 4 weeks like before? | 15:09 |
| tbarron | bswartz: umm, let's look. | 15:10 |
| bswartz | Wait you said after the summit | 15:10 |
| tbarron | summit is the first part of the last week in April, going into May | 15:10 |
| bswartz | And release date is? | 15:11 |
| tbarron | PTG is the last three days of that week, including Saturday | 15:11 |
| bswartz | Stein releases 10 April | 15:11 |
| bswartz | #link https://releases.openstack.org/stein/index.html | 15:11 |
| tbarron | yeah, that's the one I was going to grab, ty | 15:12 |
| bswartz | So summit Monday-Wednesday, PTG Thurs-Sat? | 15:12 |
| tbarron | #link https://www.openstack.org/summit/denver-2019/ | 15:13 |
| tbarron | bswartz: right | 15:13 |
| *** jgrosso has quit IRC | 15:13 | |
| bswartz | Okay so it's once again looking like the old days | 15:14 |
| *** armstrong has joined #openstack-meeting-alt | 15:14 | |
| tbarron | and release is April 8-12 | 15:14 |
| tbarron | so a couple weeks after release | 15:14 |
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| tbarron | bswartz: so it may well make sense to do a mid-cycle in Train | 15:14 |
| tbarron | cause as you say the cadence is like we used to have | 15:15 |
| bswartz | Right | 15:15 |
| tbarron | but let's deal with that then | 15:15 |
| bswartz | If we want anything special, it would be the midcycle | 15:15 |
| tbarron | No one is crying out for one in Stein. | 15:15 |
| bswartz | But the PTG may be enough | 15:15 |
| tbarron | right | 15:15 |
| tbarron | ok | 15:15 |
| tbarron | Anyone else have announcements? | 15:15 |
| tbarron | #topic Python 3 jobs | 15:16 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Python 3 jobs (Meeting topic: manila)" | 15:16 | |
| tbarron | All projects are supposed to have voting *functional* jobs for M2. | 15:16 |
| tbarron | There's a "report card" that I've been filling in. | 15:17 |
| tbarron | We're OK for manila proper now. | 15:17 |
| tbarron | dummy driver job is running under python3 | 15:17 |
| tbarron | and really doing it, not running with a pastiche of py2 and py3 services :) | 15:18 |
| tbarron | I'd like to get lvm job next | 15:18 |
| tbarron | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/623061/ still isn't working quite right yet | 15:18 |
| tbarron | manila-ui functional job is now py3 | 15:19 |
| tbarron | python-manilaclient was giving us trouble | 15:19 |
| tbarron | I was going to merge changes to run it under python3 but skip a couple unicode tests because | 15:19 |
| tbarron | so far as I could tell they were failing b/c of an issue in tempest/lib that we couldn't fix in manila itself | 15:20 |
| tbarron | That distressed gouthamr | 15:20 |
| tbarron | :) | 15:20 |
| tbarron | The issue is that manila tempest uses tempestlib to open a pipe to a subprocess to run 'manila blah blah' commands | 15:21 |
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| tbarron | The tests put mandaring description and name fields in the command | 15:21 |
| *** radeks__ has joined #openstack-meeting-alt | 15:21 | |
| tbarron | and inside tempest lib (not in our code) the strings were being byte-encoded to ascii | 15:21 |
| tbarron | so the >128 code points caused exceptions | 15:21 |
| tbarron | gouthamr was starting PTO so he stayed up late and figured out that the problem was due to our tox environment | 15:22 |
| tbarron | So we're ready to go. | 15:22 |
| tbarron | Please review: | 15:22 |
| tbarron | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/629536/ | 15:23 |
| tbarron | and | 15:23 |
| bswartz | Not string problems! | 15:23 |
| tbarron | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/630462/ | 15:23 |
| bswartz | Those always burn people moving from py2 to py3 | 15:23 |
| tbarron | I think we can merge these today. | 15:23 |
| amito | (here, sorry, was afk for a while) | 15:23 |
| tbarron | They fix the string probs and do so compatibly with py2 | 15:23 |
| tbarron | bswartz: yeah, and this one was particularly nasty | 15:24 |
| tbarron | general rule is byte-encode at the edges and decode to strings (unicode types in py2) for all internal processing | 15:24 |
| bswartz | six.text_type actually | 15:25 |
| tbarron | but the popen.subprocess acts like an edge interface as far as that rule goes | 15:25 |
| tbarron | bswartz: right | 15:25 |
| * bswartz dreams of the day when six isn't needed anymore | 15:25 | |
| bswartz | I think openstack and ceph might be the last 2 python projects anybody cares about still using py2 | 15:26 |
| bswartz | Once they move to py3, py2 can be left in the dustbin of history | 15:26 |
| tbarron | ceph is right now talking about dropping py2 support in nautilus | 15:26 |
| amito | tbarron: did you use 2to3 for the conversions? | 15:26 |
| amito | or a similar tool? | 15:26 |
| tbarron | amito: that was run on the codebase long ago | 15:27 |
| amito | tbarron: oh ok | 15:27 |
| tbarron | amito: and all the unit tests were made to work | 15:27 |
| tbarron | amito: but running functional tests revealed some other issues | 15:27 |
| *** lpetrut has quit IRC | 15:27 | |
| tbarron | amito: like that our tox env was setting locale in a way that (subtly) broke the tempest.lib client calls under py3 | 15:28 |
| tbarron | Anyways, lets review and merge those two patches (unless someone sees something wrong) today | 15:28 |
| tbarron | and I'll cut python-manilaclient and manila-ui releases tomorrow | 15:29 |
| tbarron | Anything else on this topic? | 15:29 |
| *** hongbin has quit IRC | 15:29 | |
| jgrosso | tbarron: I have to drop unexpected meeting | 15:29 |
| *** hongbin has joined #openstack-meeting-alt | 15:29 | |
| tbarron | jgrosso: ack, we'll see you here next week ! | 15:30 |
| jgrosso | yes I will make sure I have no other meetings | 15:30 |
| tbarron | #topic Gate Issues | 15:30 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Gate Issues (Meeting topic: manila)" | 15:30 | |
| bswartz | Wait | 15:30 |
| bswartz | Just 1 changes needs reviewing for py3, or more than 1? | 15:30 |
| * tbarron screeches to a halt | 15:30 | |
| tbarron | bswartz: two | 15:30 |
| tbarron | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/629536/ | 15:31 |
| tbarron | and | 15:31 |
| tbarron | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/630462/ | 15:31 |
| bswartz | Okay thx | 15:31 |
| tbarron | bswartz: ty! | 15:31 |
| tbarron | #topic Gate Issues | 15:31 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Gate Issues (Meeting topic: manila)" | 15:31 | |
| tbarron | I haven't done much on this front this week. | 15:32 |
| tbarron | Nor so far as I can tell has anyone else but | 15:32 |
| tbarron | next up is getting the manila-image-elements job to actually | 15:32 |
| tbarron | publish to tarballs.o.o when a change merges | 15:32 |
| tbarron | We merged a change to allow ssh login to the service image by key w/o password but | 15:33 |
| tbarron | it didn't show up there. | 15:33 |
| bswartz | tbarron: do you know how to do that? | 15:33 |
| bswartz | I looked at it long ago and I thought I got that working, but it was hard to understand | 15:33 |
| *** Ablu has quit IRC | 15:33 | |
| tbarron | bswartz: not sure, maybe just define the publish job in the post pipeline in zuul? | 15:33 |
| bswartz | I might have done it wrong | 15:33 |
| tbarron | bswartz: no you had it right before, I think we | 15:33 |
| bswartz | Well there is a publish job | 15:34 |
| tbarron | broke it when we moved the jobs in-tree | 15:34 |
| bswartz | But it could be fragile or easy to break | 15:34 |
| bswartz | Oh I see | 15:34 |
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| tbarron | I'll reach out to zuul/infra folks if it's not obvkous. | 15:34 |
| tbarron | obvious. | 15:34 |
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| tbarron | I'm picking that as the next task because I *think* tempest ssh client tries to login w/o password. | 15:35 |
| tbarron | Sometimes. | 15:35 |
| bswartz | I would hope that would be configurable | 15:35 |
| tbarron | Anyways, fixing it should help me test that conjecture. | 15:35 |
| tbarron | bswartz: I *think* there are some places it isn't. | 15:35 |
| tbarron | bswartz: so we might want to fix that too but if we can get pw/less login working that's great in its own right. | 15:36 |
| tbarron | Other known gate issues: | 15:36 |
| tbarron | 1) intermittent db migration failures | 15:36 |
| tbarron | 2) host assisted migration - we discussed last week, let's see how bad it is after | 15:37 |
| tbarron | getting the tempest ssh issues fixed | 15:37 |
| tbarron | 3) snapshot races in lvm driver? toabctl made some fixes in this area, maybe it's better | 15:37 |
| tbarron | 4) intermittent access-rule and replication issues in the dummy job | 15:38 |
| tbarron | #4 means races I think | 15:38 |
| tbarron | probably other stuff | 15:38 |
| tbarron | There's a rich area for people to work here!! | 15:38 |
| tbarron | Any other remakrs on this topic today? | 15:39 |
| tbarron | #Topic Bugs | 15:39 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Bugs (Meeting topic: manila)" | 15:39 | |
| tbarron | jgrosso got called to another meeting but he's working on a spreadsheet/tooling for our bug backlog | 15:40 |
| tbarron | instead of midcycle we may schedule some synchrnous time for bug smashing | 15:40 |
| bswartz | what could be more important than manila meeting? | 15:40 |
| tbarron | but there's a week or two of organizational work to do still. | 15:40 |
| * bswartz slaps jgrosso around a bit with a large trout | 15:41 | |
| tbarron | bswartz: :) | 15:41 |
| tbarron | managers | 15:41 |
| tbarron | carthaca: do you have some favorite bugs to tell us about today? | 15:41 |
| tbarron | trout-slapping leads tbarron to get people to lob bug-grenades towards ntap | 15:42 |
| bswartz | ganso: do we have bugs? | 15:42 |
| tbarron | k, I guess there aren't any netapp back end bugs then :) | 15:42 |
| tbarron | except if you do replication or work at SAP scale | 15:43 |
| tbarron | :) | 15:43 |
| carthaca | thanks for asking - not this week :) | 15:43 |
| tbarron | alright, we can move on | 15:43 |
| ganso | bswartz: not critical ones as far as I know | 15:43 |
| tbarron | #topic Open Discussion | 15:43 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Open Discussion (Meeting topic: manila)" | 15:43 | |
| * tbarron makes a note to go mark more bugs Critical :) | 15:44 | |
| ganso | tbarron: :P | 15:44 |
| bswartz | Well only mark them as critical if they're critical | 15:44 |
| tbarron | bswartz: of course, I was just messing around | 15:44 |
| tbarron | Last week after our meeting xyang and I had an interesting discussion about snapshot capabilities in manila and in the CSI world | 15:45 |
| bswartz | My rule was always that vendor bugs could never be higher than medium priority | 15:45 |
| tbarron | bswartz: prob. makes sense | 15:45 |
| xyang | tbarron: yes:) | 15:46 |
| tbarron | In manila we distinguish among (1) bare snap capability, (2) create from snap, (3) mountable snap, (4) revert to snap | 15:46 |
| tbarron | in csi there is just "snapshot capability" and it implies "create from snap" | 15:46 |
| tbarron | but | 15:47 |
| tbarron | correct me xyang if I misspeak | 15:47 |
| bswartz | Very much like cinder | 15:47 |
| bswartz | In cinder create from snap was assumed | 15:47 |
| tbarron | the create-from-snap doesn't have to be efficient | 15:47 |
| xyang | csi combined (1) and (2) into (1), but that was because there were no use cases at that time | 15:47 |
| bswartz | IIRC nothing ever has to be efficient | 15:47 |
| xyang | (3) and (4) are not supported yet | 15:47 |
| tbarron | that is, the create doesn't have to be a fixed-time operation not proportional to the amoiunt of data in the volume/share | 15:48 |
| bswartz | CSI snapshots are allowed to be dog slow | 15:48 |
| tbarron | right | 15:48 |
| ganso | xyang: but if (3) and (4) are ever to be supported, won't (2) need to split from (1)? | 15:48 |
| tbarron | and I didn't understand why | 15:48 |
| tbarron | but | 15:48 |
| tbarron | maybe I do now | 15:48 |
| xyang | no one says "cut snapshot" should be slow though | 15:48 |
| tbarron | xyang: right | 15:48 |
| tbarron | because | 15:48 |
| tbarron | again, correct if I misspeak | 15:48 |
| tbarron | in CSI the whole game is application portability | 15:49 |
| xyang | ganso: I am going to propose to separate (2) from (1) | 15:49 |
| bswartz | Well however the snapshot is implemented, there's an assumption that it represents a single point in time copy | 15:49 |
| tbarron | so snapshots are useful for porting the storage an app needs across clouds | 15:49 |
| xyang | It was in my original proposal, but got removed after reviews | 15:49 |
| tbarron | and that is never going to be efficient | 15:49 |
| xyang | no object for removal back then | 15:49 |
| tbarron | your new volume may be ready tomorrow | 15:49 |
| bswartz | You can't have a snapshot that's smeared across time (like just tarring up the whole filesystem) | 15:49 |
| tbarron | bswartz: right, but you could use tar or rsync to move the snapshot data to a new destination, right? | 15:50 |
| tbarron | the snapshot itself would have to be a single point in time | 15:50 |
| bswartz | Depends what you're tarring | 15:50 |
| tbarron | bswartz: tar might be the wrong tool but lets say you could put the snapshot on a tape and carry it to the new cloud and build a new volume/share from it there | 15:51 |
| bswartz | I guess the other assumption worth pointing out is that taking a snapshot can't interrupt I/O for a noticeable amount of time | 15:51 |
| tbarron | bswartz: because as I understand it CSI snaphsots quiesce the application around the snapshot operation | 15:52 |
| bswartz | Because there are implementation that could just remount the FS readonly and tar that, but we wouldn't accept such a solution | 15:52 |
| tbarron | bswartz: b/c the remounted FS is once again "live"? | 15:52 |
| bswartz | No, because you'd be stuck in readonly mode until the tar completed, which could be minutes or hours | 15:53 |
| tbarron | bswartz: i see, makes sense | 15:53 |
| xyang | tbarron: the quiesce part is still under development. Also it depends on what quiesce command user defines. | 15:53 |
| tbarron | xyang: well if the goal is to be able to port an app from AWS to on-prem or vice versa with its required storage then app consistency rather than just crash consistency would seem necessary | 15:54 |
| tbarron | or AWS to Azure, GCE, etc | 15:55 |
| xyang | Yes, but each application requires different way to do quiesce. So K8S is not going to provide the scripts for every application in the world | 15:55 |
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| tbarron | xyang: I see I've got a lot to learn :) | 15:55 |
| xyang | we will just provide a hook for user to add those commands | 15:55 |
| tbarron | ah, maybe we need smart "operators" so poor applicaiton developers don't have to know what all to put in those hooks :) | 15:56 |
| bswartz | Yeah people will need help | 15:57 |
| tbarron | xyang: bswartz: thanks for explaining. Seems like | 15:57 |
| bswartz | But it's a hard problem | 15:57 |
| tbarron | we don't have to yell at CSI for not learning the lessons of manila w.r.t. snapshots then | 15:57 |
| bswartz | It's always been a hard problem, and cloud infrastructure does nothing to make it easier | 15:57 |
| tbarron | Well we're short on time. Anything else today? | 15:58 |
| tbarron | Thanks everyone, see you in #openstack-manila !! | 15:59 |
| tbarron | #endmeeting | 15:59 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings/" | 15:59 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Thu Jan 17 15:59:26 2019 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 15:59 |
| xyang | thanks | 15:59 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/manila/2019/manila.2019-01-17-15.00.html | 15:59 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/manila/2019/manila.2019-01-17-15.00.txt | 15:59 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/manila/2019/manila.2019-01-17-15.00.log.html | 15:59 |
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