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| tbarron | #startmeeting manila | 15:00 |
|---|---|---|
| openstack | Meeting started Thu Sep 20 15:00:29 2018 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is tbarron. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 15:00 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 15:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: manila)" | 15:00 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'manila' | 15:00 |
| tbarron | Hi all! | 15:00 |
| tbarron | ping bswartz | 15:01 |
| dustins | \o | 15:01 |
| tbarron | ping erlon | 15:01 |
| ganso | hello | 15:01 |
| tbarron | ping gouthamr | 15:01 |
| tbarron | ping vkmc | 15:01 |
| tbarron | ping xyang | 15:01 |
| vkmc | o/ | 15:01 |
| tbarron | ping toabctl | 15:01 |
| tbarron | ping tpsilva | 15:01 |
| xyang | hi | 15:01 |
| gouthamr | o/ | 15:02 |
| tbarron | Agenda: https://wiki.openstack.org/w/index.php?title=Manila/Meetings§ion=2 | 15:02 |
| tbarron | #topic Announcements | 15:02 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Announcements (Meeting topic: manila)" | 15:02 | |
| *** bswartz has joined #openstack-meeting-alt | 15:02 | |
| bswartz | .o/ | 15:02 |
| tbarron | We agreed on a schedule for Stein dev cycle | 15:03 |
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| tbarron | #link https://releases.openstack.org/stein/schedule.html | 15:03 |
| tbarron | We're at R-29 | 15:03 |
| tbarron | Stein is four weeks longer than Rocky. | 15:04 |
| tbarron | TC elections are underway | 15:04 |
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| bswartz | Longer but with more holidays | 15:04 |
| tbarron | Milestone 1 is Oct 22-26 | 15:04 |
| tbarron | bswartz: +1` | 15:04 |
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| tbarron | Spec freeze is two weeks later by agreement | 15:05 |
| tbarron | Nov 5-9 | 15:05 |
| tbarron | Nov 8 to be more precise | 15:05 |
| tbarron | Next Wednesday is forum topic submission deadline | 15:06 |
| tbarron | #link http://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/openstack-dev/2018-September/134740.html | 15:06 |
| tbarron | but last cycle I was late and had to get special exemption so | 15:07 |
| tbarron | I plan to submit our topics soon | 15:07 |
| tbarron | Our brainstorming is here: | 15:07 |
| tbarron | #link https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/manila-berlin-forum-brainstorm | 15:07 |
| tbarron | If you have further input on forum topics please act quickly. | 15:08 |
| tbarron | I think we have enough to work from though. | 15:08 |
| tbarron | Any other announcements? | 15:08 |
| erlon | hey | 15:08 |
| tbarron | Oh, Mark Sturdevant is standing down from core. If you want to be a manila core, get a review track record! | 15:09 |
| * tbarron didn't see erlon sneak in | 15:09 | |
| gouthamr | :( | 15:09 |
| tbarron | #topic PTG summary and look ahead | 15:09 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "PTG summary and look ahead (Meeting topic: manila)" | 15:09 | |
| ganso | tbarron: he was just ignoring your ping | 15:10 |
| * erlon sneaked very very quietly :P | 15:10 | |
| tbarron | #link https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/manila-ptg-stein-summation | 15:10 |
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| tbarron | I will send the conventional PTG summary email later this week but | 15:10 |
| tbarron | mostly it will point to the link above. | 15:10 |
| tbarron | I've had some help distilling stuff from the raw record here: | 15:11 |
| tbarron | #link https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/manila-ptg-planning-denver-2018 | 15:11 |
| tbarron | So now is your chance to look these over, fix and add as you deem appropriate | 15:12 |
| ganso | our chance to discuss it right now? | 15:12 |
| tbarron | ganso: yes, that fits with my plans too :) | 15:13 |
| tbarron | The summary covers | 15:13 |
| ganso | tbarron: ok I have a topic from the PTG I would like to discuss. Can be later after all the meetings topics | 15:13 |
| tbarron | 1) Retrospective, Survey Reesults, Work planned for Stein, Agreements, and Action Items | 15:14 |
| tbarron | also an item at the end that we'll get to in a moment | 15:14 |
| tbarron | Looking at it, I'm struck by the significant amount of work planned and AIs. | 15:15 |
| tbarron | We decided to revamp the manila wiki to track work and AIs and stuff like bug focus | 15:15 |
| tbarron | instead of using lots of easily-misplaced etherpads. | 15:16 |
| tbarron | I aim to get at least a first cut on the main wiki page by next meeting. | 15:16 |
| tbarron | so .... | 15:16 |
| tbarron | ganso, why don't we do your topic, then circle back. | 15:17 |
| ganso | tbarron: ok | 15:17 |
| ganso | I would just like to clarify on the ocata branch, and if there is going to be or not driverfixes branches | 15:17 |
| ganso | I remember at some point I asked if we were going to immediately create the driverfixes/ocata branch. The answer was no | 15:18 |
| gouthamr | there isn't going to be a driverfixes branch | 15:18 |
| tbarron | Because we were thinking we'd maintian ocata itself. | 15:18 |
| ganso | and that we would continue to support it until the CI breaks, in the extended support period. Once the CI breaks it will be marked as unmaintained | 15:18 |
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| ganso | that ^ is ok. But what if now my customer that is using ocata wants a fix? | 15:19 |
| tbarron | ganso: can we fix and backport to stable/ocata? | 15:19 |
| erlon | ganso it should be an unsupported fix them | 15:19 |
| ganso | erlon, tbarron: the main purpose of the driverfixes branch was that it was unsupported and unmaintained | 15:19 |
| erlon | at least not supported by the community | 15:19 |
| gouthamr | ganso: if we can't gate it, we will not leave it unmaintained, it will be tagged, and the branch deleted | 15:19 |
| tbarron | I'm confused. Is stable/ocata already unmaintainable? | 15:20 |
| gouthamr | nope | 15:20 |
| gouthamr | it currently is | 15:20 |
| erlon | gouthamr, I was expecting the branches to be there, like the driver fixes, but not be listed as supported | 15:20 |
| tbarron | is what? | 15:20 |
| ganso | basically we are getting rid of driverfixes branch approach that we've implemented since mitaka IIRC, to not allowing backports at all, no place where vendors could pick commits at their own risk? | 15:21 |
| erlon | gouthamr, vendors might just need a place to land some old code | 15:21 |
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| ganso | tbarron: stable/ocata is currently maintained under the extended maintenance period, and we will stop maintaining it once the CI breaks for whatever reason. We agreed to this at the PTG | 15:21 |
| tbarron | we said when the CI breaks and can't be feasibly fixed | 15:22 |
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| gouthamr | +1 | 15:22 |
| tbarron | CI breaks all the time; we fix it | 15:22 |
| ganso | tbarron: yes, when that happens. Is there going to be a place to push fixes that are unsupported? | 15:22 |
| tbarron | ganso: just so I'm clear, you are asking a hypothetical then | 15:23 |
| vkmc | I don't really get the idea of having an unsupported branch that is not master | 15:23 |
| ganso | tbarron: not hypothetical, it will eventually happen | 15:23 |
| vkmc | but I'll ask you after the meeting | 15:23 |
| gouthamr | ganso erlon: so this is a question for when CI breaks | 15:23 |
| tbarron | ganso: maybe then a driverfixes branch would make sense | 15:24 |
| ganso | gouthamr: yes | 15:24 |
| gouthamr | for now, i think our PTG agreement is in-line with https://review.openstack.org/#/c/598164/ | 15:24 |
| ganso | gouthamr: for now yes | 15:24 |
| tbarron | but to be clear, we're not in that position yet | 15:25 |
| gouthamr | yeo | 15:25 |
| gouthamr | yep* | 15:25 |
| tbarron | Anything else on this topic? | 15:25 |
| erlon | so, that was what was clear to me, we would keep the branches, not necessarily they would be maintained/supported | 15:25 |
| ganso | nope, I just wanted to confirm we are not discarding the idea of having a place to push unmaintained fixes | 15:25 |
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| erlon | wich makes sense to have the series_status to report what is or not supported | 15:26 |
| tbarron | erlon: currently we are maintining extended branches from stable/ocata forwards | 15:26 |
| erlon | by we you mean, OpenStack community or Manila? | 15:26 |
| tbarron | that was an agreement from the last cycle, not at PTG | 15:26 |
| tbarron | erlon: manila | 15:26 |
| erlon | ok | 15:27 |
| gouthamr | also, we are still letting driver authors push fixes to driverfixes/newton | 15:27 |
| tbarron | erlon: OpenStack community said each project can decide how long to keep stable/* maintained after normal EOL | 15:27 |
| erlon | tbarron, ok, nice | 15:28 |
| erlon | and it was they that decided to remove the driverfixes? | 15:28 |
| tbarron | If stable/ocata gets too burdensome then we talk about it and then do driverfixes. | 15:28 |
| ganso | tbarron: ok, thank you. We can further discuss this when stable/ocata becomes unmaintained then | 15:28 |
| tbarron | *We* decided to have driverfixes exactly where we don't have stable/* maintainerd. | 15:28 |
| tbarron | So that is newton for now. | 15:28 |
| ganso | tbarron: that is correct | 15:29 |
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| tbarron | ok, anything else on this topic? | 15:29 |
| tbarron | sub-topic? | 15:29 |
| ganso | not from me. Thank you | 15:30 |
| erlon | im good | 15:30 |
| tbarron | Returning then to the PTG summary ... | 15:30 |
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| gouthamr | argh | 15:30 |
| gouthamr | can't type this AM | 15:30 |
| gouthamr | i do | 15:30 |
| gouthamr | cinder deleted their driverfixes/ocata branch | 15:30 |
| tbarron | gouthamr: shoot ... | 15:30 |
| gouthamr | do we want to? | 15:30 |
| ganso | gouthamr: I'm not sure what cinder plans are, but their driverfixes/ocata (and ours too) started not making sense when the policy changed and stable/ocata was revived during the last cycle | 15:31 |
| tbarron | I don't myself particularly care as long as we don't merge to it until if/when we quit maintaining stable/ocata. | 15:31 |
| tbarron | Unless people are confused by its existence. | 15:32 |
| gouthamr | +1 , i think we won't merge anything there - but from a consumption pov | 15:32 |
| ganso | gouthamr: we could delete it, and create it back from the latest stable/ocata when the time comes | 15:32 |
| tbarron | I certainly am fine with initiative to clean it up. | 15:32 |
| gouthamr | it may be confusing to see two ocata branches | 15:32 |
| tbarron | do we have a cleanup volunteer? | 15:32 |
| ganso | gouthamr: yes, at this moment specially | 15:32 |
| ganso | tbarron: who can delete branches? | 15:32 |
| gouthamr | clarkb :) | 15:33 |
| ganso | gouthamr: there's our volunteer? | 15:33 |
| tbarron | yes, a volunteer to work with infra to get it done | 15:33 |
| ganso | tbarron: oh | 15:33 |
| tbarron | someone from manila side to get it done | 15:33 |
| ganso | I can talk to him | 15:33 |
| clarkb | see the email thread on the dev list about the cinder branch | 15:33 |
| clarkb | has details on the prep steps you will want to take | 15:33 |
| ganso | hmmmm ok I need to find that email first | 15:33 |
| gouthamr | ty clarkb! | 15:33 |
| tbarron | #agreed ganso will work with clarkb to cleanup driverixes on ocata | 15:34 |
| tbarron | ty clarkb | 15:34 |
| tbarron | ganso: I know that email thread so if you have trouble finding it ping me | 15:34 |
| ganso | tbarron: if you the title you will make my life easier | 15:34 |
| tbarron | ok, trying again :) Anything else on this sub-topic? | 15:35 |
| tbarron | ganso: kk, right after this meeting | 15:35 |
| ganso | tbarron: thanks! | 15:35 |
| tbarron | OK, let's circle back to the PTG summary etherpad | 15:35 |
| tbarron | #link https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/manila-ptg-stein-summation | 15:35 |
| tbarron | please scan the Retrospective section, line 6ff. | 15:36 |
| tbarron | Dustin has agreed to continue as bug czar. | 15:36 |
| dustins | \o/ | 15:36 |
| gouthamr | \m/ | 15:36 |
| dustins | Thanks, everyone, for thinking that I do this well enough to keep doing it | 15:36 |
| dustins | I will not let you down | 15:36 |
| tbarron | tangentially related, we've agreed to have standing weekly agenda item (starting next week) on test reviews, since these aren't getting sufficient attentioh | 15:37 |
| tbarron | attention | 15:37 |
| tbarron | At line 14ff. we have user survey results. | 15:38 |
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| tbarron | I'm not personally particularly happy with our survey question. | 15:38 |
| tbarron | So I'm going to ask how we get it updated, and by when. | 15:38 |
| tbarron | Then we can as a community decide what the next one will be. | 15:38 |
| tbarron | IMO the survey question is a bit "battle of the bands" style and not particulary accurate. | 15:39 |
| tbarron | Line 17 captures work we said we'd continue or start in stein. | 15:39 |
| tbarron | IMO it's a lot of work to actually commplete. | 15:40 |
| tbarron | So we'll do the usual specs qualification process. | 15:40 |
| tbarron | And try to winnow down our Stein commitments. | 15:40 |
| tbarron | Any thoughts/comments thus far? | 15:41 |
| erlon | tbarron, do we have the current questions? It could be a starting point | 15:42 |
| tbarron | Line 65ff shows agreements. Anyone see anything inaccurate? | 15:42 |
| tbarron | erlon: current question is in that link: It was: what backend(s) do you use for manila? | 15:42 |
| bswartz | Yeah I came up with that question | 15:43 |
| bswartz | It was analagous to the question asked for cinder | 15:43 |
| bswartz | It's find to change it | 15:43 |
| vkmc | <dustins> Thanks, everyone, for thinking that I do this well enough to keep doing it <- you nail it... it's not only "well enough" | 15:43 |
| bswartz | But they would never let me ask more than 1 question | 15:43 |
| tbarron | bswartz: it's an interesting question but I think gets more accurate answers when vendors actively get their customers to respond. | 15:43 |
| tbarron | e.g. I doubt that there are fewer netapp back ends deployed today than in ocata :) | 15:44 |
| bswartz | Well NetApp has other ways of knowing who our customers are | 15:44 |
| tbarron | that doesn't fit with what I can extrapolate from our customer case db | 15:44 |
| bswartz | But there was a time when there was no hard data available the survey had some use | 15:44 |
| tbarron | bswartz: right, I bet the survey results don't match asup reports | 15:44 |
| tbarron | bswartz: oh I'm not criticizing the question in its original context, am just | 15:45 |
| tbarron | suggesting that we may want to revamp it for next time. | 15:45 |
| tbarron | Cinder asked for customer suggestions for improvements, new features, etc. | 15:45 |
| tbarron | Maybe it was more open ended - how are we doing? | 15:46 |
| erlon | yes, the Cinder question asking for suggestions and requested features was very useful | 15:46 |
| tbarron | And got some perhaps useful responses. | 15:46 |
| bswartz | Yeah if you can think of a better question | 15:46 |
| erlon | bswartz, you said that they only allow you to submmit/suggest 1 question? | 15:46 |
| bswartz | I wanted to ask 3 or 4 and they said no | 15:46 |
| erlon | hmmm | 15:46 |
| tbarron | anyways, I tabulated the raw results and made a bar chart on sheet#3 in that workbook so if you see any errors in the spreadsheet pls. let me know | 15:48 |
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| tbarron | Anything else from the PTG summary? | 15:48 |
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| tbarron | We have lots of AIs, when I get the wiki ready it will likely point to an AI etherpad or some such since they are fairly volatile but | 15:49 |
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| gouthamr | i like the cinder question, i think we ought to know if users want us to continue developing the UI or focus on graduating experimental features | 15:49 |
| tbarron | I want some way that people can check these and check them off themselves so that we don't have a lot of PTL chasing people going on. | 15:50 |
| tbarron | gouthamr: we may have to send mail to the operator's list (soon to merge with dev list) for some of the more detailed questions. | 15:51 |
| erlon | tbarron, +1 | 15:51 |
| tbarron | Let's think about how to do outreach/get feedback most effectively. | 15:51 |
| tbarron | We want it more often than just in these user surveys anyways. | 15:51 |
| gouthamr | "what question do you want us to ask you guys?" :P | 15:51 |
| tbarron | gouthamr is so meta | 15:52 |
| ganso | gouthamr: lol | 15:52 |
| tbarron | I don't know that I captured it well in the summary but | 15:52 |
| bswartz | I think they prefer multiple choice questions | 15:52 |
| tbarron | one theme that came up repeatedly in PTG was outreach. | 15:52 |
| tbarron | bswartz: is manila (a) awesome, (b) better than that, (c) don't know what it is. | 15:53 |
| tbarron | OK, we had another agenda topic today | 15:54 |
| tbarron | #topic mid-cycle and regional bug scrubs? | 15:54 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "mid-cycle and regional bug scrubs? (Meeting topic: manila)" | 15:54 | |
| tbarron | Do we want to have a (likely virtual) mid-cycle? | 15:54 |
| tbarron | Should we combine it with regional (like Americas) bug scrubs where possible? | 15:55 |
| dustins | I think that's a good idea. Good excuse to bring in new contributors too | 15:55 |
| bswartz | IMO bug squashes and PTGs are for different purposes | 15:56 |
| bswartz | Errr | 15:56 |
| bswartz | s/PTG/midcycle meetup/ | 15:56 |
| tbarron | bswartz: agree, the only point would perhaps that making them adjacent would help with scheduling | 15:57 |
| erlon | I think the idea there was just to gather the 2 in a few days | 15:57 |
| tbarron | or perhaps harm b/c | 15:57 |
| bswartz | Could cause burnout | 15:57 |
| bswartz | I can't take more than 2 days on the phone | 15:57 |
| tbarron | it might be easier to get time out for two dedicated days at different times | 15:57 |
| tbarron | bswartz: true that | 15:58 |
| erlon | because would be easier to get people to focus in 1 bigger event than 2 smaller | 15:58 |
| bswartz | When travel is involved, it makes more sense to try to cram a lot in | 15:58 |
| bswartz | But when it's virtual it should be spread out | 15:58 |
| tbarron | let's come back to this next week, please review the schedule in the mean time | 15:58 |
| tbarron | and see when we should set these up | 15:58 |
| tbarron | reminder | 15:58 |
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| tbarron | #link https://releases.openstack.org/stein/schedule.html | 15:59 |
| tbarron | I think we're out of time. | 15:59 |
| tbarron | Tnanks everyon! See you in #openstack-manila ... | 15:59 |
| tbarron | #endmeeting | 15:59 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings/" | 15:59 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Thu Sep 20 15:59:55 2018 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 15:59 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/manila/2018/manila.2018-09-20-15.00.html | 15:59 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/manila/2018/manila.2018-09-20-15.00.txt | 15:59 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/manila/2018/manila.2018-09-20-15.00.log.html | 16:00 |
| tbarron | precision in action | 16:00 |
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