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| cdent | #startmeeting nova_scheduler | 14:00 |
|---|---|---|
| openstack | Meeting started Mon Nov 20 14:00:05 2017 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is cdent. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 14:00 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 14:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: nova_scheduler)" | 14:00 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'nova_scheduler' | 14:00 |
| cdent | #chair efried | 14:00 |
| openstack | Current chairs: cdent efried | 14:00 |
| efried | \o | 14:00 |
| cdent | #link agenda https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings/NovaScheduler | 14:00 |
| takashin | o/ | 14:00 |
| cdent | it looks like the agenda hasn’t been recently updated so I think we can probably have a relatively free form catch-up-on-what-matters meeting | 14:00 |
| efried | I had been in the process of updating the agenda, but didn't finish in time, sorry. | 14:01 |
| cdent | if it had something interesting would you like a moment? | 14:01 |
| efried | nope | 14:01 |
| cdent | or are you happy to continue free form? | 14:01 |
| cdent | Okay in the case: | 14:01 |
| cdent | #topic specs | 14:01 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "specs (Meeting topic: nova_scheduler)" | 14:01 | |
| efried | But I can comment on them as we go. | 14:02 |
| cdent | Are there any pending specs | 14:02 |
| efried | #link symmetric GET and PUT of allocations https://review.openstack.org/#/c/508164/ is merged | 14:02 |
| cdent | yeah, and looks like nothing else is pending scheduler/placement-wise | 14:02 |
| cdent | anyone disagree? | 14:03 |
| cdent | #topic pending reviews that need attention | 14:03 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "pending reviews that need attention (Meeting topic: nova_scheduler)" | 14:03 | |
| cdent | There are lots of things currently under review, efried did a fine job of doing the placement update while I was away, I’ll pick it up again on friday | 14:03 |
| cdent | Are there any reviews that are stuck, or have big questions? | 14:04 |
| stephenfin | efried: oh hai | 14:04 |
| efried | cdent - stephenfin just said in -nova that he'd get on the nrp series this week. | 14:04 |
| cdent | well now that it is logged here, he’s forced to do it | 14:05 |
| cdent | no backing out | 14:05 |
| efried | Which is great - that's the #1 needs-core-eyeballs series IMO. | 14:05 |
| stephenfin | Hurrah! | 14:05 |
| cdent | #action stephenfin going to review the nested resource providers and we are all very grateful | 14:05 |
| efried | Closely followed by https://review.openstack.org/#/c/516782/ which is now the first in the series (the first four already merged - yay!) | 14:06 |
| efried | It's actually the last in the refactor series, but has a couple of additional subseries piled on top of it. | 14:07 |
| cdent | #link lots of allocation candidate clean ups, tests, fixes starting near: https://review.openstack.org/#/c/516782/ | 14:07 |
| efried | And traits affordance ^ | 14:07 |
| efried | Basically, both of the above series (serieses??) are prerequisite to getting placement handling traits and granular. | 14:08 |
| stephenfin | Sure thing. I'll start with nested RPs first since I know those | 14:08 |
| efried | ++ | 14:08 |
| cdent | #link selection objects and alt destinations: https://review.openstack.org/#/c/499239/ | 14:09 |
| cdent | that’s the other main theme | 14:09 |
| * bauzas waves late | 14:09 | |
| cdent | anyone else need/want to point out reviews before we move on to bugs? | 14:10 |
| efried | #link Include project_id and user_id in AllocationList.get_all_by_consumer_id https://review.openstack.org/#/c/512420/ <== this guy has *nine* +1s and a +2. Should be a slam dunk +A for a willing core. | 14:10 |
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| stephenfin | I avoided +2ing that for reasons given in the review. bauzas? ^ | 14:12 |
| stephenfin | If not, I'll take the hit, heh | 14:13 |
| cdent | it’s only in the followin changes that microversions get involved, so it’s not irrevocable | 14:13 |
| cdent | #topic bugs | 14:14 |
| bauzas | stephenfin: will look | 14:14 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "bugs (Meeting topic: nova_scheduler)" | 14:14 | |
| cdent | #link bugs: https://bugs.launchpad.net/nova/+bugs?field.tag=placement&orderby=-id&start=0 | 14:14 |
| cdent | looks like people have been finding plenty, which is great | 14:14 |
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| cdent | efried: on the stuff with non-connected RPs and get_by_filters/get_by_requests was there some kind of logic flaw or bogus SQL or ??? | 14:16 |
| efried | cdent As yet unknown. That bug still exists, even at the top of the series. | 14:16 |
| cdent | oh, bummer | 14:17 |
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| efried | I think Jay is on the hook to debug that one, or possibly alex_xu | 14:18 |
| efried | I could try, but my sqla-fu may not be up to the task yet. | 14:18 |
| cdent | but the failing test exists, right? | 14:18 |
| efried | cdent Oh, several, yes. | 14:19 |
| efried | Not merged, but in the aforementioned series. | 14:20 |
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| bauzas | cdent: note that we have a long list of new bugs | 14:20 |
| efried | Worth mentioning, btw: GET /allocation_candidates bugs ought to be verified against the top of that series. | 14:20 |
| efried | Because some of the "refactoring" also changed logic and fixed some bugs. | 14:20 |
| bauzas | cdent: so we could possibly have more placement/scheduler bugs | 14:20 |
| efried | Do we need to do a placement bug smash? | 14:22 |
| cdent | probably more important is to do a general untriaged bug triaging | 14:23 |
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| efried | That's probably what I meant, just don't know the right words. | 14:24 |
| cdent | I was effectively agreeing with bauzas’ warning | 14:25 |
| bauzas | cdent: I'll look at the new bugs by the week | 14:25 |
| bauzas | but if people would help me, <3 | 14:25 |
| bauzas | FWIW, I provided a Summit talk about that in SYD :p | 14:25 |
| bauzas | I mean, me and stephenfin :) | 14:26 |
| cdent | #topic open discussion | 14:26 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "open discussion (Meeting topic: nova_scheduler)" | 14:26 | |
| cdent | anyone have anything else, or should efried just talk to me about what he’s trying to talk to me about in #openstack-nova? | 14:26 |
| efried | (which is a loose debate on the relative merits of a placement client lib.) | 14:27 |
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| cdent | I guess you have the floor mr efried | 14:28 |
| efried | ...which came from stephenfin posting a link to this review: https://review.openstack.org/#/c/511936/ | 14:28 |
| efried | Okay, so the "ideal world" view is that the placement API should be returning stuff in a form that's consumable as "just json" without having to do a bunch of extra processing. | 14:29 |
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| bauzas | efried: what's your concern ? | 14:30 |
| cdent | rather that any complexity is domain specific and should not be built into the client | 14:30 |
| bauzas | I wasn't looking at -nova | 14:30 |
| efried | It seems to me as though the current form of the placement API, with respect to querying RPs at least, is much closer to reflecting the database than to being able to get a useful set of information. | 14:30 |
| efried | For example, you have to do three or four separate queries to figure out a RP's aggregates, traits, and inventories. | 14:31 |
| efried | I see clients finding it useful to be able to do one call and get a single blob with all that information collated. | 14:31 |
| cdent | yes, there was an mid stage design that had a more full resource provider representation | 14:31 |
| efried | Which may be an argument to add an API for that. | 14:31 |
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| efried | particularly to reduce the number of calls, for the sake of efficiency. | 14:32 |
| bauzas | well | 14:32 |
| bauzas | that's a reasonable point | 14:32 |
| bauzas | but | 14:32 |
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| bauzas | the problem is, should we orchestrate more than just providing allocations and inventories ? | 14:33 |
| bauzas | FWIW, we said that placement is just here for providing the above | 14:33 |
| efried | bauzas Not necessarily, but even within that scope the point remains. | 14:33 |
| efried | But I think perhaps the "ideal world" view holds here: if we find ourselves needing a client lib call (i.e. more than one consumer cares about it) to get a certain collected set of information, that's a case for adding an actual API call to do the same. | 14:33 |
| efried | I cited this as an example: https://review.openstack.org/#/c/521098/4/nova/scheduler/client/report.py | 14:34 |
| bauzas | I think that's probably something that should live on the client side | 14:34 |
| bauzas | for aggregating all the resources | 14:34 |
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| efried | bauzas So yeah, right now the above is living on the client side. | 14:34 |
| bauzas | I know | 14:35 |
| cdent | yeah, my bone of contention here is resting on the hope that more than one consumer _won’t_ need the call linked in the patchset | 14:35 |
| bauzas | efried: and I think it should stay at least until more than just nova uses placement | 14:35 |
| bauzas | the API should stay minimalistic and RESTful at least until the above | 14:36 |
| bauzas | then, we could discuss on how to modify that | 14:36 |
| efried | I haven't yet looked at the patch stephenfin posted. I guess I'll reserve judgment until I see how much overlap, if any, that patch presents with what we've built and are building in SchedulerReportClient. | 14:36 |
| efried | Anyway, it's something we ought to keep an eye on. In summary: watch for placement consumers doing similar client-side things, and consider whether those things are appropriate for one or both of a) a client lib; b) API adds. | 14:38 |
| efried | Unless anyone has anything further, we can call it early. | 14:39 |
| bauzas | sure | 14:39 |
| cdent | I agree with that summary | 14:39 |
| bauzas | looks reasonable | 14:39 |
| cdent | always be watching | 14:40 |
| cdent | anyone have any last words? | 14:40 |
| bauzas | albeit. | 14:40 |
| cdent | thanks for coming | 14:40 |
| cdent | #endmeeting | 14:40 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 14:40 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Mon Nov 20 14:40:22 2017 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 14:40 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/nova_scheduler/2017/nova_scheduler.2017-11-20-14.00.html | 14:40 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/nova_scheduler/2017/nova_scheduler.2017-11-20-14.00.txt | 14:40 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/nova_scheduler/2017/nova_scheduler.2017-11-20-14.00.log.html | 14:40 |
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| dave-mccowan | #startmeeting barbican | 20:03 |
| openstack | Meeting started Mon Nov 20 20:03:48 2017 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is dave-mccowan. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 20:03 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 20:03 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: barbican)" | 20:03 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'barbican' | 20:03 |
| dave-mccowan | #topic roll call | 20:03 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "roll call (Meeting topic: barbican)" | 20:03 | |
| dave-mccowan | o/ | 20:03 |
| abishop | o/ | 20:04 |
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| dave-mccowan | please review: https://review.openstack.org/514734 | 20:17 |
| dave-mccowan | #endmeeting | 20:17 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 20:17 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Mon Nov 20 20:17:39 2017 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 20:17 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/barbican/2017/barbican.2017-11-20-20.03.html | 20:17 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/barbican/2017/barbican.2017-11-20-20.03.txt | 20:17 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/barbican/2017/barbican.2017-11-20-20.03.log.html | 20:17 |
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| jeblair | hi, any zuul folks around? | 22:04 |
| clarkb | I'm here | 22:04 |
| pabelanger | present | 22:04 |
| fungi | oh, yep | 22:05 |
| fungi | 'tis time | 22:05 |
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| dmsimard | hello | 22:06 |
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| dmsimard | I'll have to fix my calendar notification.. | 22:06 |
| fungi | can't put it in utc? | 22:06 |
| dmsimard | probably, yeah, but I guess it defaults to EST/EDT or whatever it is | 22:06 |
| * fungi wonders how calendar applications deal with mixing timezones | 22:06 | |
| jlk | poorly | 22:06 |
| jeblair | heh | 22:07 |
| fungi | whether an entry follows dst is hopefully a field ni ical format or something | 22:07 |
| fungi | s/ni/in/ | 22:07 |
| jeblair | #startmeeting zuul | 22:07 |
| openstack | Meeting started Mon Nov 20 22:07:51 2017 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is jeblair. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 22:07 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 22:07 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: zuul)" | 22:07 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'zuul' | 22:07 |
| jlk | The meeting should be stored in UTC, and then display is adjusted by local display zone info | 22:08 |
| jeblair | #link agenda: https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings/Zuul | 22:08 |
| jlk | but people fail at thinking like that, so some events are stored actually in the local timezone, so that the "time" doesn't change when the offset does | 22:08 |
| jeblair | #link last meeting: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/zuul/2017/zuul.2017-11-13-22.10.log.html | 22:08 |
| jeblair | Thanks to Shrews for chairing the last meeting! | 22:08 |
| jeblair | it was nice and short, so i just linked to the transcript | 22:08 |
| fungi | i found it helpful, even if short | 22:08 |
| jeblair | i will only add that the infra+zuul team did not have rotten vegetables thrown at us so i consider it a success (in fact, many nice things were said about v3) | 22:09 |
| jeblair | it=summit | 22:09 |
| pabelanger | yay | 22:10 |
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| fungi | yes, none of the vegetable they threw were rotten | 22:10 |
| pabelanger | a lot of excitement around zuulv3 at summit | 22:10 |
| jlk | woo | 22:10 |
| jeblair | #topic Add support for shared ansible_host in inventory (pabelanger) | 22:10 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Add support for shared ansible_host in inventory (pabelanger) (Meeting topic: zuul)" | 22:10 | |
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| pabelanger | so, this is something I found when trying to convert a zuulv2 job to native zuulv3 | 22:11 |
| pabelanger | it is more an optimization I think on CI resources and hopefully something we want to consider | 22:11 |
| jeblair | #link https://review.openstack.org/521324/ | 22:11 |
| pabelanger | right now, if I use our current nodeset stanza, I'd have to request 6 nodes from nodepool, when in fact, the way the playbooks are written, I really only need 1. | 22:12 |
| jeblair | pabelanger: i take it the zuulv2 job was running ansible within the job, and you're trying to move that ansible up to top-level zuulv3 internal ansible? | 22:12 |
| pabelanger | also, host groups doesn't work in this case, because of the way variable scoping is handled | 22:12 |
| pabelanger | jeblair: correct | 22:12 |
| dmsimard | I'm not sure I'm following, have a bad case of mondays | 22:13 |
| jeblair | pabelanger: cool. so this isn't a regression from v2, more of an impedence mismatch with zuulv3 internal ansible and native ansible. which is cool -- we want to make it as transparant as possible. | 22:13 |
| * dmsimard reads review | 22:13 | |
| mordred | if there are differences in how variable scoping works, I could see that being something other folks would run in to should they attempt to do what pabelanger is trying to do too | 22:13 |
| mordred | yah - what jeblair said | 22:13 |
| dmsimard | pabelanger: oh, different hosts which lead back to the same host | 22:13 |
| pabelanger | jeblair: Yup, in fact, requesting the 5 nodes from nodepool work fine. I just didn't want to land it and eat up a bunch of nodes for each patch | 22:14 |
| pabelanger | dmsimard: right | 22:14 |
| mordred | "I want 3 different ansible hosts, but I only need one node" | 22:14 |
| clarkb | wouldn't you put the single node in different groups with zuulv3 | 22:14 |
| clarkb | then have your playbooks operate on the various groups? | 22:14 |
| clarkb | but one node could be in say 6 groups | 22:14 |
| mordred | clarkb: yah - that apparently behaves differently in some ways | 22:14 |
| dmsimard | clarkb: yes and no, you can do both | 22:14 |
| mordred | clarkb: (that was my first suggestion as well) | 22:15 |
| fungi | pabelanger: will it run ~5x as fast if scheduled across 5 nodes? if so, the larger node size doesn't sound too terrible | 22:15 |
| pabelanger | clarkb: yes, that is possible but it would require a rewrite in my case | 22:15 |
| dmsimard | clarkb: like, technically, there's nothing that prevents "keystone.domain.tld" "nova.domain.tld" to ultimately resolve to the same IP address while also being different "hosts" in ansible | 22:15 |
| dmsimard | the problem here is that we use IP addresses, not hostnames | 22:15 |
| jeblair | pabelanger: what's the deficiency with using groups? | 22:16 |
| jeblair | i know "something about var scoping" but is there something more specific i can reference? | 22:16 |
| dmsimard | pabelanger: I think we might break some assumptions in roles if we do this, especially multinode roles | 22:16 |
| dmsimard | jeblair: play host filtering is an example | 22:16 |
| mordred | so if we want to support the story, as much as possible, of "run your existing ansible as part of your testing" - then if there is a semantic distinction between 2 hosts with the same IP and a single host in two groups, then I think we need to allow a user to express which they want | 22:17 |
| pabelanger | jeblair: it is likely better is I work up simple playbook example, because I'm likley not going to explain it very well. | 22:17 |
| dmsimard | jeblair: if you want to do an "all in one" but your playbooks/roles are built to target different hosts | 22:17 |
| jeblair | dmsimard: isn't that an anti-pattern? (ie, shouldn't you filter plays based on groups or roles anyway?) | 22:17 |
| mordred | (also, yah, having a little clarity on the things that are different between the two would likely be helpful for all of our deeper understanding) | 22:17 |
| dmsimard | I have a (bad) example, one sec | 22:17 |
| dmsimard | https://github.com/rdo-infra/rdo-container-registry/blob/master/hosts | 22:18 |
| dmsimard | it so happens that I'm installing everything on the same host, but the playbooks are made to target specific groups to install specific things | 22:18 |
| dmsimard | pabelanger: ^ does that make sense ? | 22:18 |
| jeblair | dmsimard: iiuc, that case should be handled currently with our group support (aside from the openshift_node_labels, but that's only because we don't do any host-specific inventory vars right now. we could, but that's a different change) | 22:19 |
| clarkb | dmsimard: right but we have different groups ability so your think shoudl work right? | 22:19 |
| dmsimard | and then there's an example of var scoping in that example, if you look at the nodes group | 22:19 |
| pabelanger | right, but more specifically ansible_host seems to create a new SSH connection (which resets variable scope) where using groups doesn't. It will just run everything from start to finish using 1 connection. Based on my local testing | 22:19 |
| mordred | pabelanger: yah - that's, I think, the most important distiction | 22:20 |
| dmsimard | pabelanger: that strangely rings me a bell | 22:20 |
| jeblair | pabelanger: multiple ssh connections make sense, how that's connected to variable scoping i don't understand | 22:20 |
| pabelanger | but, I'll setup a simple playbook / inventory demonstrate the issue | 22:20 |
| mordred | pabelanger: ++ | 22:20 |
| dmsimard | jeblair: hostvars can arguably be workaround by supplying a host_vars directory so it's not a big deal I think | 22:21 |
| dmsimard | (or group_vars) | 22:21 |
| dmsimard | I don't think we need to support providing them in the nodesets (unless we really want to) | 22:21 |
| jeblair | dmsimard: either way, based on my current understanding, i think it's orthogonal to this question, so we can set it aside for now | 22:21 |
| mordred | yah | 22:22 |
| * dmsimard nods | 22:22 | |
| dmsimard | a reproducer would indeed help | 22:22 |
| pabelanger | okay, will get that done for tomorrow and we can discuss more | 22:22 |
| jeblair | okay, my personal summary here is: i'm not opposed to this on principle, but before we proceed, i'd like to understand it a bit more; pabelanger will help by suppling more examples and details. and if we do need to proceed, we should evaluate dmsimard's concern about assumptions in multinode jobs. | 22:23 |
| jeblair | that jive for folks? | 22:23 |
| pabelanger | ++ | 22:23 |
| mordred | I agree | 22:23 |
| mordred | from a philosophical point of view, I'd prefer to minimize the number of times we have to say to someone "to use your existing ansible in zuul, you need to rewrite it" | 22:23 |
| dmsimard | yeah. | 22:23 |
| mordred | there will be some cases in which that is unavoidable, of course | 22:23 |
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| fungi | sgtm | 22:24 |
| jeblair | mordred: ++ | 22:24 |
| pabelanger | yah, this was the closes way I could reproduce an existing inventory file I was testing with in v2 | 22:24 |
| jeblair | #agreed pabelanger will help by suppling more examples and details before we proceed with this. if we do need to proceed, we should evaluate dmsimard's concern about assumptions in multinode jobs. | 22:24 |
| jeblair | i -1d the change with a quick summary too, so we don't lose it | 22:25 |
| pabelanger | ack | 22:25 |
| jeblair | #topic Allow run to be list of playbooks (pabelanger) | 22:25 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Allow run to be list of playbooks (pabelanger) (Meeting topic: zuul)" | 22:25 | |
| pabelanger | So, this was actually the first way I solved above, but kept it alive because it might be usefully. Having a job run multiple playbooks | 22:26 |
| jeblair | this seems to touch on similar issues... | 22:26 |
| jeblair | ah :) | 22:26 |
| pabelanger | yup | 22:26 |
| jeblair | that was my question | 22:26 |
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| jeblair | #link https://review.openstack.org/519596 | 22:26 |
| jeblair | so this is a semi-alternate to the other change | 22:26 |
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| pabelanger | Yah, gave the option to run back to back playbooks with specific hosts | 22:27 |
| pabelanger | kinda like we do on puppetmaster today with ansible | 22:27 |
| pabelanger | so, not sure if we want to consider supporting it or leave until later | 22:27 |
| clarkb | considering it is something we already do elsewhere it seems to make sense as a feature | 22:27 |
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| jeblair | actually, why do we do that on puppetmaster? | 22:28 |
| pabelanger | I know we wrap each ansible-playbook with timeout, did we break it out due to memory issues? | 22:29 |
| jeblair | is it something about parallelism? or exiting on failure? | 22:30 |
| mordred | jeblair: I think it's acutlaly just historical | 22:30 |
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| mordred | we had a run_puppet.sh - and we started using ansible to run it by modifying that script one bit at a time | 22:30 |
| clarkb | jeblair: mordred the big reason for it today is decoupling infracloud from everything else | 22:31 |
| jeblair | pabelanger: how would this have solved your problem? even if zuul ran multiple playbooks in sequence, it would still have the same vars? | 22:31 |
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| clarkb | because infracloud is more likely to fail and adds a significant time to the round robin | 22:31 |
| mordred | jeblair: vars set by tasks in the plays get reset across playbook invocations | 22:31 |
| jeblair | clarkb: right, but those just operate completely in parallel, right? | 22:32 |
| clarkb | jeblair: yes | 22:32 |
| jeblair | mordred: oh i see | 22:32 |
| clarkb | so ya I guess in the context of a job you'd just have two jobs for that | 22:32 |
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| mordred | yah | 22:32 |
| pabelanger | jeblair: it would be same vars, but multiple ssh connection attempts. That seems to be the key to resetting them to how I expect them in the playbooks | 22:32 |
| pabelanger | again, I think a more detailed example playbook might help here | 22:32 |
| pabelanger | and happy to write up | 22:33 |
| jeblair | i'm still questioning the connection between ssh connections and variables | 22:33 |
| jeblair | i'm pretty sure those are two independent concepts | 22:33 |
| pabelanger | these are group_vars if that helps | 22:33 |
| jeblair | does zuul set group vars? | 22:34 |
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| dmsimard | I don't think so | 22:34 |
| pabelanger | it doesn't, ansible is loading them based on the playbooks/group_vars folder | 22:34 |
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| dmsimard | there's either inventory-wide vars or extra-vars which both apply to everything | 22:35 |
| jeblair | pabelanger: so you're getting different variables because you're running playbooks in different paths? | 22:35 |
| pabelanger | jeblair: I get different variables if I switch to groups in my inventory file | 22:36 |
| pabelanger | well | 22:36 |
| pabelanger | groups of groups | 22:36 |
| dmsimard | I haven't tested group_vars and host_vars, it'd be interesting to test actually.. typically you'd have host_vars and group_vars inside {{ playbook_dir }}, but in our case those paths aren't "merged". However, I believe you can set group_vars and host_vars inside roles, and that would be more likely to work. | 22:36 |
| jeblair | pabelanger: er, i'm trying to understand how this change solves your variable problem from earlier | 22:37 |
| pabelanger | for exmaple: http://git.openstack.org/cgit/openstack/windmill/tree/playbooks/inventory is my working v2 inventory file | 22:37 |
| pabelanger | jeblair: bascially, it allows me to stop doing http://git.openstack.org/cgit/openstack/windmill/tree/playbooks/site.yaml | 22:38 |
| pabelanger | and create a run: statement for each playbook | 22:38 |
| jeblair | pabelanger: why is that preferable? | 22:38 |
| jeblair | pabelanger: don't you feel like you're moving too much logic *into* zuul? | 22:38 |
| dmsimard | seems equivalent to me as well | 22:38 |
| dmsimard | FWIW that's exactly what we're doing with the base and multinode integration jobs, we're running "one" playbook that includes multiple playbooks | 22:39 |
| dmsimard | I don't currently see that as a hindrance | 22:39 |
| pabelanger | jeblair: yes, this is a work around, because I created 521324, which I'd much rather have | 22:39 |
| pabelanger | before* | 22:39 |
| pabelanger | I'll have to run here in about 5 minutes, but don't want to leave people hanging. I'm happy if we want to contiune this topic in #zuul too | 22:41 |
| jeblair | pabelanger: to be clear, i'm, again, not permanently opposed to 519596, but before we merge changes like that, i'd like to have a really clear idea of why they are necessary, or what problem they solve, or what situation they improve. so far we've got the "include list" as one thing, but that seems like an anti-pattern and a mild argument against merging 519596 | 22:41 |
| jeblair | if there's a variable aspect to this, i still don't understand it | 22:41 |
| pabelanger | sure, I'll get some working examples that better show the issues I ran into converting v2 job to native v3. These were both my attempts to address some issues I was having | 22:42 |
| jeblair | pabelanger: okay, thanks | 22:42 |
| jeblair | #agreed pabelanger will provide more examples and explanation for this | 22:43 |
| pabelanger | I have to run now, will catch up on minutes when I return | 22:43 |
| jeblair | #topic open discussion | 22:43 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "open discussion (Meeting topic: zuul)" | 22:43 | |
| jlk | I have a topic... | 22:44 |
| dmsimard | For open discussion, I just wanted to point out that we formally started looking at what it means to run a Zuul v3 that is not the one in OpenStack | 22:44 |
| clarkb | I too have one, but go for it jlk | 22:44 |
| dmsimard | jlk won first :P | 22:44 |
| jlk | dmsimard: who's "we" ? | 22:44 |
| jlk | IIRC there is one at BMW is there not? | 22:44 |
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| dmsimard | We is RDO Infra (analogous to openstack-infra) and Software Factory developers | 22:45 |
| jeblair | there are a few in fact | 22:45 |
| jlk | (and for a hot minute, there was Bonny. Sigh.) | 22:45 |
| jlk | dmsimard: neat! | 22:45 |
| dmsimard | Software Factory had arguably been running Zuul v3 for a while | 22:45 |
| dmsimard | But there's some interesting questions and design challenges in thinking how we want to share configuration between zuuls (zuul-jobs, openstack-zuul-jobs, project-config, and specific project) | 22:46 |
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| jeblair | i think SpamapS was also trying out zuul-jobs sharing | 22:47 |
| jlk | jamielennox had some thoughts in this space as well | 22:47 |
| dmsimard | I started a thread about it in the context of TripleO http://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/openstack-dev/2017-November/124733.html and we also started hunting down issues we come across in zuul-jobs here: https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/downstream-zuul-jobs-issues | 22:47 |
| clarkb | we probably want to focus on sharing zuul-jobs first and not the others right (they aren't generally supposed to be reconsumable so figuring it out for zuul-jobs where it is is a good start) | 22:47 |
| jeblair | sharing between instances is definitely a design goal for zuul-jobs. | 22:47 |
| dmsimard | clarkb: it's funny that you mention that, because one of the ideas that has been floating around is to centralize the playbooks/roles/jobs/etc for TripleO in tripleo-ci and then use that across all Zuuls | 22:48 |
| jeblair | i think openstack-zuul-jobs and individual openstack projects may be useful for openstack third-party-ci, but that's less of an explicit goal, and i think large amounts of 'shadow' and 'include'/'exclude' may be needed. | 22:48 |
| mordred | yes. I could also imagine that in-repo jobs and possibly openstack-zuul-jobs might be things that OpenStack Third Party Zuuls will want to consume | 22:48 |
| dmsimard | jeblair: yes, in the context of third party CI and such. | 22:48 |
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| mordred | jeblair: yup | 22:49 |
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| jeblair | project-config definitely isn't meant to be shareable -- *however* -- we do want to have at least a stub/example base job. that should end up either in zuul-jobs or zuul-base-jobs at some point soon. | 22:49 |
| mordred | ++ | 22:49 |
| mordred | starting by figuring out sharing of zuul-jobs and getting it right will go a long way | 22:49 |
| jeblair | ++ | 22:50 |
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| clarkb | mordred: ya thats what I'm thinking. Those are the bits that should be reconsumbale so lets start there and learn what we learn | 22:50 |
| jeblair | dmsimard: so thanks for diving in and thanks in advance for your patience :) | 22:50 |
| jeblair | (cause we just *might* have gotten some things wrong in the first pass) | 22:51 |
| dmsimard | no stress | 22:51 |
| clarkb | last week we merged a couple changes that broke Zuuls config and zuul didn't catch them upfront. The one I remember off the top of my head is parenting to a final job. I know that pabelanger ran into something else when he had to restart zuul due to OOM as well. | 22:51 |
| clarkb | ^^ is my item | 22:51 |
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| clarkb | it would be good if we could address those config issues pre merge | 22:51 |
| dmsimard | a couple? | 22:51 |
| jeblair | clarkb: by broke zuul's config... what do you mean? | 22:51 |
| dmsimard | how did more than one breaking change merge ? | 22:52 |
| mordred | jlk: was thatyour topic? or did we talk over you? | 22:52 |
| jeblair | how did *one* breaking change merge? | 22:52 |
| clarkb | jeblair: in pabelanger's restart zuul case zuul would not start up again | 22:52 |
| jlk | mordred: I can wait through clarkb's :) | 22:52 |
| jeblair | is there a bug report? | 22:52 |
| clarkb | jeblair: in the job parented to final job zuul kept running but the new jobs that merged would not run | 22:52 |
| clarkb | jeblair: I believe both were added to the zuulv3 issues etherpad | 22:52 |
| jeblair | clarkb: the second sounds like an expected run-time error; the first sounds like a bug. | 22:53 |
| clarkb | ok we can followup on them after meeting | 22:53 |
| * clarkb gets out of jlk's way | 22:53 | |
| jeblair | ack | 22:53 |
| * dmsimard has an easy item after jlk | 22:53 | |
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| * jeblair has a quick item after dmsimard | 22:54 | |
| jlk | hi there! So tristanC landed a nodepool driver for k8s, and I'm asking if the group collective has the appetite to discuss/debate k8s (and container in general) driver approaches for Zuul/Nodepool. | 22:54 |
| jlk | "is now the time" or should we table this for later? | 22:54 |
| jlk | and by now, I don't mean in this channel now, but on list and in #zuul and whatnot | 22:54 |
| mordred | s/landed/proposed/ | 22:55 |
| jlk | sorry that's what I meant :( | 22:55 |
| jlk | silly fingers | 22:55 |
| mordred | jlk: yah - just wanted to make sure nobody else was confused :) | 22:55 |
| dmsimard | it's worth discussing not just because it's important but because it'll be a precedent from which the design of other "drivers" will be built from IMO | 22:55 |
| mordred | jlk: I was actually just writing an email to the list on this meta topic actually | 22:55 |
| jeblair | i'd really like to get a v3 release out before we dive into this, because i think it will help get and retain other folks into our community. also, it's just embarrasing not to release. | 22:55 |
| dmsimard | +1 | 22:56 |
| clarkb | considering the lack of such features isn't a regression I'm on board with that too | 22:56 |
| * mordred agrees with jeblair - but does think there is at least one facet of the discussion that is worth having pre-release to make sure we don't back ourselves into a corner when we release | 22:56 | |
| jlk | same, a release would be good, so long as we don't have to wait for zuul4 to add container support | 22:56 |
| jeblair | my preferred approach would be to get the release out the door quickly, then start on the next dev cycle. there are things on the roadmap for release that others can pitch in on (some of them have my name next to them, but they don't have to be me and that would speed things up) | 22:56 |
| dmsimard | ok mordred you will start a topic on the ML ? | 22:57 |
| jeblair | i would be really surprised if we are unable to release by februrary, and think earlier is likely (though i caution, there really aren't that many work weeks left in this year) | 22:57 |
| mordred | the thing I think is worth sanity-checking ourselves on pre-release is making sure we aren't doing anything thatwould fundamentally block the addition of a nodepool driver that produces build resources that do not use ssh | 22:57 |
| mordred | dmsimard: yes, I shall | 22:57 |
| dmsimard | let's pick up the discussion there | 22:58 |
| jlk | works for me, thanks! | 22:58 |
| jeblair | this dovetails into my topic, which is in next week's meeting, i'd like to check in on the release roadmap items | 22:58 |
| dmsimard | There's only 1:30 left.. but Ansible 2.4.1 is out and addresses most/all of the regressions/issues introduced in 2.4. How do we upgrade without breaking people that have written <2.4 things ? | 22:58 |
| jeblair | i'll add that to the angenda for next, and i expect we'll have the roadmap items in storyboard soon | 22:59 |
| dmsimard | Alternatively, how do we potentially allow different version of Ansible ? Because some things works in one, some in others, etc. | 22:59 |
| dmsimard | Ack | 22:59 |
| mordred | jeblair: ++ | 22:59 |
| jlk | I really hope that we don't get too deep in "what version of ansible" land for Zuul users. | 23:00 |
| jlk | at least not "choose your own" | 23:00 |
| mordred | dmsimard: most of the 2.3 to 2.4 breakages were in the python layer for us, right? | 23:00 |
| dmsimard | mordred: for ara and zuul themselves, perhaps | 23:00 |
| dmsimard | mordred: there's still some "bug fixes" that broke things | 23:00 |
| dmsimard | some behavior changes in includes/imports | 23:00 |
| dmsimard | also variable scopes | 23:01 |
| dmsimard | they don't really follow semver :( | 23:01 |
| mordred | jlk: I actually have some thoughts on how we might consider doing that without death - but as of right now I agree with that sentiment | 23:01 |
| jeblair | jlk, dmsimard: some folks have expressed a use case for multiple ansible support, and it may be in keeping with our philosohpy of trying to be as transparent as possible with ansible. for instance, kolla tests all their stuff with all current supported versions of ansible. | 23:01 |
| jlk | sure, but I thought at that point, you write a first job that installs the ansible you want to test with, then.... | 23:02 |
| dmsimard | this is a cool topic which I'll continue in #zuul :) | 23:02 |
| mordred | dmsimard: I'm not sure there is a great story yet today for how to upgrade zuul's ansible from 2.3 to 2.4 and verify that people's job ansible doesn't break | 23:02 |
| jeblair | so it may not be out of the question for zuul to maintain compatibility with current supported versions. but i think that needs a design proposal. :) | 23:02 |
| jeblair | i think the quick answer to dmsimard's question is -- | 23:02 |
| jeblair | we try using 2.4.1 and fix what's broken :) | 23:02 |
| mordred | yah | 23:02 |
| dmsimard | yuck | 23:02 |
| dmsimard | anyway, we're over time :) | 23:02 |
| jeblair | Shrews has done much work on that already, we should be in pretty good shape | 23:03 |
| jeblair | thanks all! | 23:03 |
| jeblair | #endmeeting | 23:03 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 23:03 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Mon Nov 20 23:03:13 2017 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 23:03 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/zuul/2017/zuul.2017-11-20-22.07.html | 23:03 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/zuul/2017/zuul.2017-11-20-22.07.txt | 23:03 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/zuul/2017/zuul.2017-11-20-22.07.log.html | 23:03 |
| mordred | moving *forward* I think getting zuul tests running on upstream ansible changes will be super helpful in at least pointing fingers at breaks that are unintentional | 23:03 |
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