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| bswartz | #startmeeting Manila | 15:00 |
|---|---|---|
| openstack | Meeting started Thu Dec 17 15:00:18 2015 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is bswartz. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 15:00 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 15:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: Manila)" | 15:00 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'manila' | 15:00 |
| bswartz | hello all | 15:00 |
| cknight | Hi | 15:00 |
| ganso | hello | 15:00 |
| dustins | \o | 15:00 |
| tbarron | hi | 15:00 |
| aovchinnikov | hi | 15:00 |
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| bswartz | #agenda https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Manila/Meetings | 15:00 |
| markstur_ | hi | 15:00 |
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| xyang | hi | 15:01 |
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| gouthamr_ | o/ | 15:01 |
| vponomaryov | hi | 15:01 |
| bswartz | #topic announcements | 15:01 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "announcements (Meeting topic: Manila)" | 15:01 | |
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| bswartz | So I decided to cancel the next 2 meetings | 15:01 |
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| bswartz | due to the winter holidays | 15:02 |
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| gouthamr_ | +1 | 15:02 |
| bswartz | I know many people won't be able to attend, and although some people will be working during that time, we don't really need to hold the meeting | 15:02 |
| bswartz | so the next IRC meeting will be Jan 7th | 15:02 |
| bswartz | #topic Proposal for share groups | 15:03 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Proposal for share groups (Meeting topic: Manila)" | 15:03 | |
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| cknight | If you didn't see the ML post yesterday, please review the wiki. | 15:03 |
| cknight | #link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Manila/design/manila-generic-groups | 15:03 |
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| cknight | After building CGs, and then stepping back and looking at it, we think Manila will be much better served with a generic grouping construct. | 15:04 |
| bswartz | #link http://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/openstack-dev/2015-December/082490.html | 15:04 |
| cknight | That will enable all Manila actions for share groups on *any* driver, while still having the opportunity for drivers to provide a backend-specific advantaged implementation if possible. | 15:04 |
| cknight | It would simplify and normalize the user experience. | 15:04 |
| cknight | It would simplify development of future features. | 15:04 |
| cknight | And it would make testing everything easier. | 15:04 |
| cknight | To do this, we would morph the CG implementation into a generic group construct, add group types, and re-add CGs using the new framework. | 15:04 |
| cknight | We would also build group support into the Manila UI (think tree table, perhaps?), so it would be easily usable by everyone. | 15:05 |
| cknight | I tried to capture lots of implementation details in the wiki, but I'm sure y'all have questions. Thoughts? | 15:05 |
| bswartz | So there was a preview of this last week | 15:05 |
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| bswartz | who has read the writeup? | 15:05 |
| xyang | I have | 15:05 |
| ganso | I do | 15:05 |
| vponomaryov | I have | 15:05 |
| ganso | s/do/have | 15:05 |
| dustins | The wiki page? | 15:05 |
| bswartz | any concerns? | 15:05 |
| bswartz | dustins: yes | 15:06 |
| cknight | dustins: yes | 15:06 |
| dustins | Yup, I have | 15:06 |
| vponomaryov | I like this idea | 15:06 |
| dustins | This seems like a fantastic idea from a lot of different areas | 15:06 |
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| vponomaryov | just statement about two person-weeks efforts looks tooooo optimistic | 15:06 |
| tbarron | i haven't had a chance to read it yet but got the early version in discussions | 15:06 |
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| cknight | Incidentally, we don't see this as a huge effort, since we already know where to touch the code to add groups. | 15:06 |
| cknight | This should fit in M.2 if we choose to proceed. | 15:07 |
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| dustins | Better organization in the CLI and GUI, operations that spread across the groups, backend neutrality | 15:07 |
| vponomaryov | cknight: you talk only about server side? | 15:07 |
| vponomaryov | cknight: to fit M-2? | 15:07 |
| dustins | Or rather spread across the members of a group | 15:08 |
| cknight | vponomaryov: I think we'd do everything in parallel. | 15:08 |
| cknight | vponomaryov: Only the UI might lag a bit, but doing groups in the UI becomes much more compelling than just for CGs. | 15:08 |
| cknight | vponomaryov: So I hope we'd do server, client & UI in Mitaka. | 15:09 |
| ganso | it looks like this will affect a lot existing APIs, should we consider this change a v3 candidate? | 15:09 |
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| cknight | ganso: No, it shouldn't affect many existing APIs. | 15:09 |
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| vponomaryov | ganso: microversions are used for such cases | 15:09 |
| bswartz | ganso: the affected APIs should all be experimental ones | 15:09 |
| cknight | ganso: CGs are experimental, so we can change those at will. | 15:09 |
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| ganso | what if I want to allow-access to a group of shares | 15:09 |
| ganso | so that will be a new API command, existing allow-access to single share will remain the same then, right? | 15:10 |
| xyang | One concern I have is if the group snapshot or group replication can be sometimes consistent and sometimes not, it could cause confusion to customers | 15:10 |
| cknight | ganso: I think the APIs wouldn't be overloaded for shares & groups, so group APIs would be incremental. | 15:10 |
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| bswartz | xyang: that's true, but I don't see how this proposal makes things any worse than they already are | 15:10 |
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| cknight | xyang: That's fair. We could talk about public group extra specs for things that users need to know. | 15:10 |
| bswartz | I think this proposal makes it better in some (but possibly not all) cases | 15:11 |
| xyang | bswartz: that is inconsistent behaviour | 15:11 |
| ganso | bswartz: +1 | 15:11 |
| xyang | if it is always consistent, then no confusion | 15:11 |
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| cknight | xyang: I'm not sure how it's different than shares that are sometimes deduped and sometimes not. Same for other extra specs. | 15:12 |
| bswartz | I'm very against inconsistent behavior, but in cases where it can't be avoided, we have ways of dealing with it | 15:12 |
| cknight | bswartz: +1 | 15:12 |
| bswartz | we've seen this with snapshot support and the solution is to make sure the user knows what he's going to get before he creates his first share | 15:12 |
| vponomaryov | cknight: why add group type and not extend share type? | 15:12 |
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| xyang | cknight: dedupe is different. It could be where I'm coming from, I only know consistent group snapshot and replication | 15:13 |
| cknight | vponomaryov: I had that thought as well, but Ben pointed out that the public extra specs on share types wouldn't map well to groups. | 15:13 |
| vponomaryov | cknight: do you have example? | 15:14 |
| vponomaryov | cknight: that would not fit? | 15:14 |
| ganso | cknight: shouldn't all shares in a group be of the same type? | 15:14 |
| bswartz | I know that administrators will find all the different capabilities challenging, but when I look at the various alternatives, cknight's proposal seems like the least bad option from the administrator's point of view (thinking about providing a consistent experience to his end users) | 15:14 |
| cknight | vponomaryov: DHSS perhaps? Ben also wanted to be explicit about share types vs. share group types. I agree it would be possible and faster to reuse share types for this. | 15:15 |
| bswartz | I think that group types are fundamentally different from share types | 15:15 |
| cknight | ganso: Not necessarily. That wasn't true for CGs. | 15:15 |
| ameade | I would like them as public extra specs, then i think it's easy enough as a user to know the abilities of a group | 15:15 |
| dustins | Something where you could apply the share type to a share group and it would propagate to all members of the group? | 15:15 |
| ameade | bswartz: +1 | 15:16 |
| cknight | ameade: +1 It should be simple to define a set of public group extra specs. I outlined several on the wiki. That should allay Xing's concern. | 15:16 |
| ganso | cknight: that could complicate things a lot, thinking about migration... if I want to migrate a group, but a certain share in the group is not the same type, I may not be able to migrate all shares to the same destination backend anymore | 15:16 |
| xyang | ganso: I'm worried about complexity too by adding a group type | 15:17 |
| ameade | ganso: you already have that problem if you don't have other backends that match the share type | 15:17 |
| xyang | When CG was first introduced in Cinder in Juno, it was supposed to be dependent on a Type Group too. It was in the first few revisions of the spec. | 15:18 |
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| xyang | It got dropped when someone raised concerns on how to support multiple Type Groups | 15:18 |
| cknight | ganso: It does mean you would have to check each group member first to make sure each would be a valid migration target, but that doesn't sound terrible. And the problem already exists now, where you can create a CG with multiple share types. | 15:18 |
| bswartz | whether it's a good idea to allow multiple share types in a group comes down to whether you agree with the use case for CGs -- that you want to split your dataset across 2 or more shares of different types and maintain consistency between them | 15:18 |
| xyang | so it got dropped due to the increased complexity | 15:18 |
| ganso | ameade: yes but would that migration succeed or fail? if fail because a single member does not fit, then it is the same as using a group type... being restrictive here reduces granularity and complexity | 15:19 |
| ganso | cknight: ^ | 15:19 |
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| cknight | xyang: I can understand the reluctance at the time, but looking back now at all the complexity both projects have built, I'm looking for simplifying and unifying constructs. | 15:19 |
| ganso | cknight: I did not participate in CG development, but would it be bad to have the restriction of same share types within a CG? | 15:19 |
| ameade | it wouldn't fail due to a single member, it would fail because there is no other backend that could support the group | 15:19 |
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| ganso | ameade: exactly, the way I understand that is the same as the restriction | 15:20 |
| xyang | ganso: initially the proposal was to support one volume type in one CG in Cinder, but quickly there are concerns that it should support multiple volume types | 15:20 |
| xyang | ganso: so it is changed to support multiple volume types and the scheduler will pick one backend | 15:21 |
| ameade | i think having mixed cgs is an important use case | 15:21 |
| cknight | ganso: I'm not sure how restrictive that would be. But the problem isn't limited to CGs or migration. There will simply have to be logic that can evaluate the suitability of a backend to contain a group based on its type and its members' types. It's not that complicated. | 15:21 |
| xyang | cknight: can we leverage share types rather than introducing another group type construct? | 15:22 |
| bswartz | xyang: I know what you're talking about with the increased complexity, but after taking a look at what it will require to unify the new features we have (cgs, migration, replication) I worry that the complexity there is even worse. I think we've managed to fool ourselves into thinking we can graft features onto the side of Manila with little complexity because we're just delaying the costs until later | 15:22 |
| ganso | xyang: a backend that supports all type variations within a CG then... that will restrict the number of destination backends. | 15:22 |
| cknight | ganso: The goal would be to have that logic live in one place, so the migration, replication, etc. engines can use it as needed. | 15:22 |
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| xyang | ganso: we have to choose one backend though because there one manager that handles one backend | 15:23 |
| xyang | ganso: this is a architecture limitation | 15:23 |
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| ganso | xyang, cknight: I understand now, thanks :) | 15:23 |
| cknight | xyang: regarding another group type construct, that's what vponomaryov asked. It's possible, but Ben was keen to keep it separate for clarity. | 15:24 |
| vponomaryov | cknight: is it going to be required ? | 15:25 |
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| cknight | vponomaryov: is what required? using groups? or group types? | 15:25 |
| vponomaryov | cknight: usage of group types for each share | 15:25 |
| cknight | vponomaryov: no | 15:25 |
| ganso | vponomaryov: it seems the groupe type is related to group model, not share model | 15:26 |
| bswartz | group types would be for groups -- shares don't have to go in a group -- and group could even have a default group type so you don't have to specify one if you don't care | 15:26 |
| ganso | vponomaryov: and the share is part of a group, but is also still an individual share | 15:26 |
| vponomaryov | cknight: ok, do we plan to allow existing share inclusion to some group later? | 15:26 |
| cknight | vponomaryov: If there were no code in Manila today, we could choose to implement every share in its own group, but that is an implementation detail, and I think we're too far along to do that. | 15:26 |
| ganso | vponomaryov: +1 | 15:27 |
| gouthamr_ | vponomaryov | 15:27 |
| cknight | vponomaryov: I think we could do that. We didn't allow that in the first release of CGs, so you could only assign group membership at either share or group creation time. | 15:27 |
| gouthamr_ | in that case the existing api should change | 15:27 |
| xyang | cknight: what about add a share to a group or remove a share from a group? A non-pool group can support it but a pool group cannot | 15:27 |
| cknight | vponomaryov: But I added 'group modification' to the list of group capabilities so we could consider that. | 15:28 |
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| ganso | cknight: just to confirm one thing, we are enforcing grouping, right? there will be no more shares without groups, a single share has to be a single group, right? | 15:28 |
| bswartz | xyang: I think cknight said he was explicitly avoiding any pool-related groupings | 15:28 |
| bswartz | pools are not groups in the current proposal | 15:28 |
| xyang | bswartz: oh? | 15:29 |
| bswartz | therefore pool-based replication is still out of scope | 15:29 |
| gouthamr_ | ganso: shares and groups are first class citizens as per the wiki.. as far as i understand, so shares can exist without groups | 15:29 |
| xyang | bswartz: isn't the current CG implemented for a pool? | 15:29 |
| bswartz | cknight: is that accurate? | 15:29 |
| xyang | a different set of API for pool? | 15:29 |
| bswartz | xyang: CGs can span pools, or not -- it's up to the backend | 15:29 |
| cknight | bswartz: Yes. Pool-based replication or anything similar is fundamentally different, because a pool contains data from multiple tenants. | 15:29 |
| bswartz | pools are never visible to the end user | 15:30 |
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| ganso | gouthamr_, cknight: having these two possibilities make for two possible branches of code, it may be very complicated to test every feature like this | 15:30 |
| bswartz | pools are just for admins and for the scheduler | 15:30 |
| xyang | cknight: so what about the existing CG snapshot? will that be supported by this new group? | 15:30 |
| xyang | I'm confused | 15:30 |
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| bswartz | xyang: I think the proposal include ripping out the existing CG experimental APIs and replacing them with group-based consistent snapshot APIs | 15:31 |
| ganso | xyang: the way I understand, the generic group would have the "consistent snapshot" group type, the backend would read that and do the consistent snapshot when snapshots are triggered | 15:31 |
| cknight | xyang: This proposal replaces the Manila CG implementation. The admin creates a group with the CG extra spec, and the user creates a group of that type and invokes snapshot on it. | 15:31 |
| cknight | xyang: When the group snapshot call arrives in the manager, the manager sees that the type of that group is CG, so it hands it off to the driver for handling. | 15:32 |
| xyang | cknight: so my question is still relevant then. the existing CG implementation cannot add/remove share | 15:32 |
| cknight | xyang: Yes, your question is definitely relevant. It's up to all of us to decide whether group membership can change anytime, or only at share /Â group creation time. | 15:32 |
| bswartz | xyang: the solution there is to make add/remove from group an optional feature, some drivers may support it and others may not | 15:33 |
| xyang | bswartz: ok, that's big difference between pool-based and non-pool-based grouping | 15:33 |
| cknight | bswartz: +1 I think that's unavoidable, since some backends can't change CG membership anytime. That's why I suggested the 'group_modification' extra spec. | 15:33 |
| gouthamr_ | bswartz: +1 Manila could allow it, and fail if the driver doesn't support it. | 15:33 |
| cknight | xyang: But since type creation is always admin-only, it's up to the admins to create the types correctly. | 15:34 |
| markstur_ | We should try to avoid "adds" that make group actions turn into "no host found" | 15:34 |
| ganso | if we enforce this restriction, it may be simple for backends, because AFAIK, for CG to work, the shares have to be created in a previously defined CG... so having both behaviors (generic that allows add/remove and generic with CG extra-spec) would increase complexity | 15:34 |
| ganso | backends would need to know to behave both ways if they support CG | 15:35 |
| ganso | the ones that don't, need to implement add/remove | 15:35 |
| xyang | If this is a loose grouping, it implies that there should be a possibility to add/remove | 15:35 |
| bswartz | ganso: one issue that I've learned is that CGs work very differently on different platforms, and we don't always agree on what aspect of a CG matters most | 15:35 |
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| ganso | markstur_: +1 | 15:36 |
| bswartz | ganso: this proposal allows us to capture the important features of a CG -- such as "can take a consistent snapshot" and "can replicate with mutually ordered writes" and advertise them individually | 15:36 |
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| xyang | ganso, markstur_, when you add share to a group, you provide a share type, which is already supported by the group | 15:36 |
| ganso | I like the idea of "group_modification" extra-spec because it can be added later, we could start simple by enforcing "create share in a group" | 15:37 |
| xyang | ganso, markstur_: actually that is create and add. If it is add, it doesn't go thru scheduler | 15:37 |
| cknight | ganso: +1 That was my thought. | 15:37 |
| ameade | ganso: +1 | 15:37 |
| dustins | ganso: +1 | 15:37 |
| markstur_ | xyang, I'm thinking that with multiple share types, the group might function until a share of the 2nd type shows up and then smoe feature won't find a target anymore | 15:37 |
| cknight | ganso: A lot of this can be done incrementally. We do the groups & group types first, then vertical slices adding one grouped action at a time. | 15:38 |
| markstur_ | That's probably an admin mistake, but still would be annoying | 15:38 |
| ameade | markstur_: i dont think that could happen because you schedule the group based on all the share types | 15:38 |
| xyang | markstur_: if admin changes things afterwards, it affects not only CG but everything else | 15:38 |
| ameade | so it would end up on a backend that can do all of them | 15:38 |
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| cknight | ameade: yes | 15:39 |
| markstur_ | what if migrate can't find a place that suits the whole group | 15:39 |
| markstur_ | The group coud be valid and claim "migration_support", but no host found | 15:39 |
| ameade | then you're sol | 15:39 |
| markstur_ | I don't know how to solve that one | 15:39 |
| xyang | markstur_: you create a share which does not support dedupe as defined in the type; now admin adds dedupe support to the same type. now what happens to the existing share? | 15:39 |
| bswartz | markstur_: the same issue could happen with migration of single shares | 15:40 |
| ganso | markstur_: the destination backend would need to support all the share types within that group that is being migrated... else it can't be migrated | 15:40 |
| bswartz | xyang: changes to share types have never affected existing shares of that type | 15:41 |
| markstur_ | Again it probably comes down to the admin needs to know how to do it right | 15:41 |
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| bswartz | generally we advise against modifying a share type after it's been used | 15:41 |
| ameade | bswartz: but how does that currently play with migration? | 15:41 |
| ameade | bswartz: yeah the best way is to have immutable share types, but is that practical? | 15:41 |
| xyang | bswartz: understood. I'm saying now if you look at the type and the share, how can you tell whether it support dedupe or not by the type | 15:41 |
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| bswartz | ameade: it works if you're clever, or lucky | 15:41 |
| bswartz | xyang: actually that's not true for the reason you just mentioned | 15:42 |
| xyang | bswartz: the share type says dedupe enabled, but the share does not have it | 15:43 |
| bswartz | xyang: if the admin changes the share type, then that can happen | 15:43 |
| ganso | xyang: I don't understand, why wouldn't it? | 15:43 |
| ganso | bswartz: +1 | 15:43 |
| xyang | bswartz: the share was created before that | 15:43 |
| bswartz | we considered this issue when thinking about snapshot support -- you can create a share type without snapshot support, and create some shares, then later modify the type to have snapshot support | 15:43 |
| bswartz | you can't rely on the share type to know if the share has snapshot support or not, therefore we store in the share itself whether it had snapshot support at the time of creation | 15:44 |
| xyang | bswartz: unless if you are saying the admin will go to the array and manually change things | 15:44 |
| gouthamr_ | bswartz : or replication_type in share replication. | 15:45 |
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| bswartz | if there are other aspects that manila needs to know about -- we have to store those with the shares -- we can never rely on the share type to know the actual capabilities of any given share | 15:45 |
| ganso | xyang, bswartz: those are probably going to be the case where shares may have to be migrated (or re-created), even in the same backend, in order to support those features... most of them cannot be simply enabled/disabled on backends after share has been created | 15:45 |
| bswartz | this is a downside of mutable share types | 15:45 |
| xyang | ganso: if that is involved, yes. I have got bug report because someone just changed type without doing anything for existing shares on the array | 15:46 |
| ganso | xyang, bswartz: this is something retype API has to handle... I do not see this as a problem for the generic groups approach at this moment | 15:46 |
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| ganso | xyang: using manage/unmanage? | 15:46 |
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| bswartz | okay I know this discussion could keep going, but we need to move on to other topics | 15:46 |
| xyang | ganso: if you do those steps, yes. | 15:47 |
| bswartz | please keep providing feedback on the proposal | 15:47 |
| ganso | xyang: that is a bad practice I would say... that's why manage/unmanage is admin-only, the admin needs to know carefully what he is doing | 15:47 |
| cknight | Yes, please keep the feedback coming! | 15:47 |
| bswartz | cknight: some concrete examples of how your proposal might play out would probably help | 15:48 |
| cknight | Don't hesitate to update the wiki. | 15:48 |
| cknight | bswartz: OK, will do. | 15:48 |
| bswartz | give an example of a multi-vendor deployment with some real complexity, and show how group types makes that tractable | 15:48 |
| cknight | bswartz: Sure. | 15:48 |
| bswartz | #topic Liberty.1 stable release | 15:49 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Liberty.1 stable release (Meeting topic: Manila)" | 15:49 | |
| bswartz | so it's come to my attention that we're late with our liberty.1 release | 15:49 |
| bswartz | there's not a fixed schedule, but generally the other project lined up their liberty.1 releases with the mitaka-1 milestone | 15:50 |
| bswartz | so I'm going to tag a liberty.1 as soon as I can manage it | 15:50 |
| bswartz | I'm merging stuff that's been backported today | 15:50 |
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| bswartz | did anyone else have something that urgently needs backporting? | 15:50 |
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| bswartz | some distros are looking at liberty.1 as their base for their downstream branches | 15:51 |
| vponomaryov | bswartz: there are manila-ui bug that should be done and backported | 15:51 |
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| vponomaryov | bswartz: current latest mailaclient release 1.5.0 not compatible with mainla-ui | 15:51 |
| bswartz | vponomaryov: fixed in master already? | 15:51 |
| bswartz | vponomaryov: yes we need releases of manilaclient too | 15:52 |
| vponomaryov | bswartz: current fix broke it actually | 15:52 |
| bswartz | :-( | 15:52 |
| vponomaryov | bswartz: but added support of not released latest client | 15:52 |
| vponomaryov | bswartz: you can find chat logs about it today in manila channel | 15:52 |
| bswartz | okay so ignoring the client and UI -- is there anything in the manila project that needs backporting? | 15:52 |
| vponomaryov | bswartz: toabctl made heads up | 15:52 |
| bswartz | I need to spend more time catching up on the client issues, but I think the server is almost there | 15:53 |
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| bswartz | okay I'll read about the client problems | 15:53 |
| bswartz | that's all I had to say about liberty.1 | 15:54 |
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| bswartz | #topic open discussion | 15:54 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "open discussion (Meeting topic: Manila)" | 15:54 | |
| zhongjun | A little question: Did we need to separation of user to user and group in Access_allow API. | 15:54 |
| zhongjun | eg: access-allow %share% group %group_name% | 15:54 |
| zhongjun | Because we can not distinguish between user and user groups from only user name. | 15:54 |
| toabctl | bswartz: there is https://review.openstack.org/#/c/257358/ which I would like to have fixed in liberty | 15:54 |
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| bswartz | toabctl: this isn't merged in master yet | 15:55 |
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| bswartz | let's prioritize reviews of that one so it can get a workflow today and the backport can start | 15:55 |
| bswartz | I'll hold off on a liberty.1 tag until that backport happens | 15:55 |
| vponomaryov | bswartz: Ci feels bad today | 15:55 |
| toabctl | bswartz: ok | 15:56 |
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| bswartz | vponomaryov: indeed | 15:56 |
| bswartz | the new gerrit system is ..... weird | 15:56 |
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| cknight | bswartz: +1 Very weird. | 15:56 |
| ganso | bswartz: +1 | 15:56 |
| toabctl | bswartz: +1 . it was weird but now it's even more weird | 15:56 |
| zhongjun | +1 | 15:56 |
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| gouthamr_ | as with every GUI upgrade :D | 15:56 |
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| vponomaryov | bswartz: zhongjun had a question | 15:56 |
| bswartz | zhongjun: to answer your question -- we don't currently | 15:57 |
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| dustins | that is weird | 15:57 |
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| zhongjun | But how to deal with this problem? | 15:57 |
| bswartz | zhongjun: I'm not opposed to changing that if there's a good reason to, but so far nobody has had a problem with using the same API for doing CIFS group access | 15:57 |
| bswartz | the driver/backend is supposed to figure out if the user is actually a group and do the right thing | 15:58 |
| ganso | bswartz: that seems like a good alternative | 15:58 |
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| bswartz | typically user names and group names don't overlap | 15:59 |
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| bswartz | and when they do, the current manila behaviour is undefined | 15:59 |
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| bswartz | so if someone has a problem with that undefined behaviour, propose an API change to make groups explicit | 16:00 |
| xarses | time check | 16:00 |
| bswartz | xarses: I'm aware | 16:00 |
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| zhongjun | typically user names and group names don't overlap. All of this like this? | 16:00 |
| bswartz | thanks everything I think we're done | 16:00 |
| bswartz | #endmeeting | 16:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 16:00 | |
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| openstack | Meeting ended Thu Dec 17 16:00:54 2015 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 16:00 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/manila/2015/manila.2015-12-17-15.00.html | 16:00 |
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| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/manila/2015/manila.2015-12-17-15.00.txt | 16:00 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/manila/2015/manila.2015-12-17-15.00.log.html | 16:01 |
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| xarses | #startmeeting fuel | 16:01 |
| xarses | #chair xarses | 16:01 |
| xarses | Todays Agenda: | 16:01 |
| xarses | #link https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/fuel-weekly-meeting-agenda | 16:01 |
| xarses | Who's here? | 16:01 |
| openstack | Meeting started Thu Dec 17 16:01:08 2015 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is xarses. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 16:01 |
| maximov | hi | 16:01 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 16:01 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: fuel)" | 16:01 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'fuel' | 16:01 |
| bookwar | hi | 16:01 |
| mihgen | hi | 16:01 |
| sbog | hi | 16:01 |
| openstack | Current chairs: xarses | 16:01 |
| fzhadaev1 | Hi! | 16:01 |
| mwhahaha | hi | 16:01 |
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| rmoe | hi | 16:01 |
| nurla | hi | 16:01 |
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| dnikishov | hello | 16:01 |
| asvechnikov_ | hi | 16:01 |
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| agordeev | hi | 16:01 |
| ashtokolov | hi | 16:01 |
| evgenyl | Hi! | 16:02 |
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| xarses | #topic Action items from last meeting | 16:02 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Action items from last meeting (Meeting topic: fuel)" | 16:02 | |
| xarses | dims and mattymo will follow up on https://bugs.launchpad.net/oslo.log/+bug/1514828 | 16:02 |
| openstack | Launchpad bug 1514828 in oslo.log "tracebacks are not logged to syslog" [Low,In progress] - Assigned to Dmitry Mescheryakov (dmitrymex) | 16:02 |
| akislitsky_ | hi | 16:02 |
| dims | @xarses : https://review.openstack.org/#/c/258442/ | 16:03 |
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| xarses | thanks dims | 16:03 |
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| xarses | bookwar will create blueprint for Fuel CI on puppet-openstack projects, this is done | 16:03 |
| angdraug | hi all | 16:03 |
| bookwar | here is the blueprint https://blueprints.launchpad.net/fuel/+spec/deployment-tests-for-puppet-openstack i've put some work items | 16:04 |
| xarses | #link https://blueprints.launchpad.net/fuel/+spec/deployment-tests-for-puppet-openstack | 16:04 |
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| bookwar | i think we don't need to wait for a hardware | 16:04 |
| bookwar | and can start with periodic jobs | 16:04 |
| bookwar | from noop at least | 16:04 |
| xarses | ok, sounds good. Lets make sure we share this with the puppet-openstack team | 16:05 |
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| xarses | SheenaG to follow up with DP regarding network templates in ui | 16:05 |
| bookwar | degorenko: ^^ | 16:05 |
| SheenaG | Hey guys, sorry I'm late - DP and I are meeting today | 16:05 |
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| xarses | thanks SheenaG | 16:05 |
| xarses | thats the end of actions | 16:05 |
| degorenko | thanks for the update bookwar | 16:05 |
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| xarses | #topic not finished/updated 7.0 blueprints: https://launchpad.net/fuel/+milestone/7.0. https://launchpad.net/fuel/+milestone/9.0 is open. (mihgen) | 16:06 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "not finished/updated 7.0 blueprints: https://launchpad.net/fuel/+milestone/7.0. https://launchpad.net/fuel/+milestone/9.0 is open. (mihgen) (Meeting topic: fuel)" | 16:06 | |
| mihgen | folks, we have many blueprints which are not in Implemented status in 7.0. | 16:06 |
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| mihgen | I'm wondering should I just move them all to future, or give a few days for assignees/component leads to review them? | 16:06 |
| mihgen | Also, 9.0 milestone is open. Let's move / create blueprints which we started to work on, in 9.0 | 16:07 |
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| xarses | mihgen: we have ones open for 7.0 still? | 16:07 |
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| mihgen | yes; we never cleaned up those.. | 16:07 |
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| xarses | ok, I think we should probably just push them then, I assume that we updated the ones that landed already | 16:08 |
| mihgen | ok I'll move them to future early next week. But it'd be better if you guys take a look and see if there are any where we need to update status | 16:08 |
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| xarses | #topic fuel-nonroot status: need spec reviews, design discussion https://review.openstack.org/#/c/243340/ (dnikishov) | 16:09 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "fuel-nonroot status: need spec reviews, design discussion https://review.openstack.org/#/c/243340/ (dnikishov) (Meeting topic: fuel)" | 16:09 | |
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| dnikishov | as some of you may know, there was a bp on fuel using root for everything | 16:10 |
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| dnikishov | the bp is targeting 9.0, but it has been split into 3 smaller pieces due to the huge scope | 16:10 |
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| dnikishov | the items are: 1. user-specified non-root account on slave nodes; 2. non-root account on master node + services not running as root; 3. running mcollective as non-root (needs research) | 16:11 |
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| dnikishov | the spec for item 1 is already available https://review.openstack.org/#/c/243340/; please review it | 16:11 |
| dnikishov | I'm working on the POC patches on top of current master right now, see gerrit topic https://review.openstack.org/#/q/topic:bp-fuel-nonsuperuser | 16:12 |
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| dnikishov | the blueprints and specs for items 2 and 3 are one their way | 16:12 |
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| dnikishov | however it seems reasonable to focus on item 1 for now | 16:13 |
| xarses | thanks | 16:13 |
| xarses | no feedback on reviews for 2+ days http://bit.ly/1RD6JLR, https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/fuel-stalled-reviews (mihgen) | 16:13 |
| mihgen | As of yesterday, we had 48 patchsets which didn't have an update for more than 2 days. Which is bad. I've collected list of those patches grouped in the etherpad mentioned in the topic. | 16:14 |
| xarses | #topic no feedback on reviews for 2+ days http://bit.ly/1RD6JLR, https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/fuel-stalled-reviews (mihgen) | 16:14 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "no feedback on reviews for 2+ days http://bit.ly/1RD6JLR, https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/fuel-stalled-reviews (mihgen) (Meeting topic: fuel)" | 16:14 | |
| mihgen | I suggest that we assign responsible cores to each repo, and ensure that all receive feedback | 16:14 |
| maximov | mihgen: +1 | 16:14 |
| mihgen | can you guys go ahead and set those in the etherpad? | 16:15 |
| mihgen | if there is no core assigned by the end of the meeting, then we need angdraug's help | 16:15 |
| mihgen | and generic question - how do we keep our response time under 2 days? | 16:16 |
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| mihgen | acharykov is not here unfortunately, but I'd love to know how we can speed https://bugs.launchpad.net/fuel/+bug/1497655 this up | 16:16 |
| openstack | Launchpad bug 1497655 in Fuel for OpenStack "Add reviewers automatically based on MAINTAINERS data" [High,Confirmed] - Assigned to Alexander Charykov (acharykov) | 16:16 |
| mihgen | which suppose to help | 16:16 |
| angdraug | monester is here actually | 16:17 |
| angdraug | just talked to him about this bug earlier today | 16:17 |
| angdraug | he has the script ready and is now figuring out how to hook it into gerrit | 16:17 |
| maximov | acharykov will join in a minute | 16:17 |
| angdraug | fyi monester == acharykov | 16:17 |
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| mihgen | angdraug: this is the status which I have for about a month, unfortunately | 16:18 |
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| mihgen | can we help somehow with gerrit? | 16:18 |
| monester | mihgen: this script is ready to run on our fuel-ci | 16:18 |
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| mihgen | monester: please run on fuel-ci then | 16:18 |
| mihgen | and then meanwhile we can continue with hook | 16:18 |
| monester | ok, bookwar, can you merge and apply then https://review.fuel-infra.org/#/c/12228/ ? | 16:19 |
| bookwar | monester: yes, review is in progress, we apply'll the script for fuel-main only at first, and then see how it works | 16:19 |
| mihgen | thank you guys | 16:20 |
| monester | mihgen: is it ok? | 16:20 |
| maximov | can we add action item for the next meeting to check the status? | 16:20 |
| mihgen | yes, when can we make it run.. ? | 16:20 |
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| bookwar | mihgen: by the end of the week | 16:22 |
| bookwar | fir fuel-main | 16:22 |
| xarses | #action monester and bookwar will work on getting the add reviewers by MAINTAINERS data script | 16:22 |
| mihgen | ok great | 16:22 |
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| mihgen | it's call for everyone too. We need to provide prompt feedback on patches | 16:23 |
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| mihgen | xarses: moving? | 16:23 |
| xarses | #topic Meeting Schedule on next few weeks (xarses) | 16:23 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Meeting Schedule on next few weeks (xarses) (Meeting topic: fuel)" | 16:23 | |
| xarses | I've pulled up the next few Fuel meeting days (every Thursday), and overlaid them with some of Holidays I'm aware of. | 16:23 |
| xarses | Dec 24, Christmas Eve | 16:23 |
| xarses | Dec 31, New Years Eve | 16:23 |
| xarses | Jan 7, Russian Orthodox Christmas day // Part of New Years rest | 16:23 |
| xarses | Jan 14 | 16:23 |
| xarses | I'd propose that we should postpone Dec 31, and Jan 7 meetings as we'd likely have no participation. | 16:23 |
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| xarses | What is every one's thoughts on Dec 24? | 16:23 |
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| maximov | russian office will be on NY party | 16:24 |
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| nurla | :) | 16:24 |
| mihgen | what about UA, PL on 12/24? | 16:24 |
| mihgen | wondering if PL & UA are working on 1/7 | 16:25 |
| mihgen | #link http://zib.com.ua/files/articles_photos/118507.jpg for UA | 16:25 |
| mihgen | so off on 1/7 | 16:26 |
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| mihgen | sounds like we should cancel 12/24, 31, and 1/7 which I don't really like... | 16:26 |
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| SheenaG | Could we move 12/24 back one day to 12/23? | 16:27 |
| xarses | We'd probably not have this room | 16:27 |
| SheenaG | Oh good point | 16:27 |
| nurla | mihgen: you can join us) | 16:27 |
| angdraug | we'd probably not have any room, they're pretty full | 16:27 |
| xarses | I can look to see if we have rooms | 16:28 |
| xarses | I think we have strong agreement about 12/31, and 1/7 yes? | 16:28 |
| angdraug | yes | 16:28 |
| bookwar | we can move to #fuel-dev once | 16:28 |
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| mihgen | +1 to SheenaG, even if we will have to get in #fuel-dev | 16:28 |
| SheenaG | If the rooms are free, would we want to do 12/30? | 16:28 |
| bookwar | for pre-holiday party.. | 16:28 |
| mihgen | 12/23 is actually SCF | 16:28 |
| angdraug | +1 for #fuel-dev on 12/23 | 16:28 |
| nurla | 12/23 weekly meeting call | 16:29 |
| mihgen | so we need to sync. And then we can be back on 1/14 | 16:29 |
| angdraug | SCF is not a reason not to have a meeting | 16:29 |
| SheenaG | So, #fuel-dev on 12/23, break 12/31 and 1/7, returning to regular meeting location and time 1/14 | 16:29 |
| mihgen | angdraug: is IS a reason to have a meeting | 16:29 |
| xarses | ok, lets put in for 12/23, I'll see if we can get a openstack-meeting room otherwise we'll do in #fuel-dev | 16:29 |
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| xarses | #action xarses find a meeting room from 12/23, and announce meeting schedule | 16:30 |
| xarses | #topic UI Team status (vkramskikh) | 16:30 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "UI Team status (vkramskikh) (Meeting topic: fuel)" | 16:30 | |
| vkramskikh | Hi, we're working on bugfixing. This week we've reduced the number of area-ui bugs from 35 to 28: http://i.imgur.com/hngsDfQ.png | 16:30 |
| vkramskikh | We still have 3 High bugs left and still plan to fix them before SCF. The total number of bugs grew slightly by the end of the week as we're focused on High bugs and don't plan to spend much time on Medium- bugs. | 16:30 |
| vkramskikh | We're also spending time to help Python guys with fixing https://bugs.launchpad.net/fuel/+bug/1518993 | 16:30 |
| vkramskikh | After SCF we plan to finish moving Fuel UI to a separate repo with the help of vkozhukalov. | 16:30 |
| openstack | Launchpad bug 1518993 in Fuel for OpenStack "Plugins metadata (keys in hash with settings) gets corrupted" [Critical,In progress] - Assigned to Vitalii Myhal (xmig) | 16:30 |
| vkramskikh | Questions? | 16:30 |
| xarses | thanks vkramskikh | 16:32 |
| xarses | #topic Fuel-Mixed Team status (asaprykin) | 16:32 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Fuel-Mixed Team status (asaprykin) (Meeting topic: fuel)" | 16:32 | |
| asaprykin | Fuel-Mixed team is working on bugs related to "OpenStack configuration" feature: | 16:32 |
| asaprykin | Inbox: 0 | 16:32 |
| asaprykin | Patches on review: 1 | 16:33 |
| asaprykin | Patches merged: 14 | 16:33 |
| asaprykin | Also started working on fixing bugs not related to this feature. | 16:33 |
| mihgen | asaprykin: is it about post-deployment changes? | 16:33 |
| asaprykin | yes, correct | 16:33 |
| xarses | great to hear, ave you identified what you may be working on in the next iteration? | 16:34 |
| mihgen | what about all those idempotency issues.. ? do you plan to resolve them all? | 16:34 |
| asaprykin | We haven't started planning process for the next iteration. AFAIK we have pool of requests that we're going to work on. | 16:35 |
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| asaprykin | We discussed issues with akasatkin and most of them are addressed by the patches that were merged and one is still on review. | 16:35 |
| mihgen | cool | 16:36 |
| asaprykin | We had to update CLI, since we did minor update in API to make it more clear for end user and solve possible inconsistent states of the cluster. | 16:36 |
| asaprykin | So the last patch is about CLI only. | 16:36 |
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| asaprykin | Do you have any other questions? | 16:38 |
| mihgen | xarses: 5 topics left... | 16:38 |
| xarses | #topic Telco Team Status (fzhadaev) | 16:38 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Telco Team Status (fzhadaev) (Meeting topic: fuel)" | 16:39 | |
| fzhadaev1 | Fuel Telco team's main activity is fixing bugs, related to ubuntu-bootstrap feature. | 16:39 |
| fzhadaev1 | Here the current amount of open bugs: | 16:39 |
| fzhadaev1 | 1 Critical bug (fix is on review) | 16:39 |
| fzhadaev1 | 2 High bugs (fixes are on review) | 16:39 |
| fzhadaev1 | 2 Medium bugs (one is triaged, for another one fix is on review) | 16:39 |
| fzhadaev1 | Those who are not involved in fixing these bugs are working with bugs from 8.0 backlog (not related to feature). | 16:39 |
| fzhadaev1 | Do you have any questions? | 16:39 |
| mihgen | plans for next milestone.. ? | 16:40 |
| fzhadaev1 | we have bp about ubuntu bootstrap improvements https://blueprints.launchpad.net/fuel/+spec/ubuntu-bootstrap-improvements | 16:40 |
| mihgen | ok, so you plan to work on those items from blueprint..? | 16:41 |
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| fzhadaev1 | yes, AFAIK :) | 16:41 |
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| mihgen | ok thx, good | 16:42 |
| xarses | #topic Task-Based Deployment Status (ashtokolov) | 16:42 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Task-Based Deployment Status (ashtokolov) (Meeting topic: fuel)" | 16:42 | |
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| ashtokolov | Task-based deployment: Last Friday we finally merged all patches. | 16:42 |
| -openstackstatus- NOTICE: Zuul is moving in very slow motion since roughly 13:30 UTC; the Infra team is investigating. | 16:42 | |
| ashtokolov | Many thanks to warpc, bgaifullin, dilyin, aglarendil and especially to ikalnitsky and holder for our merge party! | 16:42 |
| ashtokolov | Now we are on testing and bug fixing track. We’ve run task-based deployments BVT on our CI slaves. | 16:43 |
| ashtokolov | As you know in case of task-based deployment we do deployment for all nodes simultaneously | 16:43 |
| ashtokolov | Our testing framework uses KVMs for Fuel Master Node and for OpenStack Nodes. | 16:43 |
| ashtokolov | All VMs are running on one host node so we are limited by host resources. | 16:43 |
| ashtokolov | Preliminarily results: | 16:43 |
| ashtokolov | Deployment part of BVT on 12 cores server: granular ~85 minutes, task-based ~48 minutes (4 runs of each type) | 16:44 |
| ashtokolov | So task-based is almost two times faster than granular (minus 42% of duration) | 16:44 |
| ashtokolov | Now we are testing it on 6 and 4 cores slaves. And we are going to start bare metal tests tomorrow. | 16:44 |
| ashtokolov | I’ll share cases and results with all in email asap. | 16:44 |
| mihgen | great improvements, this is really cool! | 16:44 |
| xarses | ashtokolov: thanks, the improvement is fantastic | 16:45 |
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| nurla | +100500 | 16:45 |
| maximov | good job! | 16:45 |
| xarses | #topic Bugs team status (dpyzhov) https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/fuel-bugs-status | 16:45 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Bugs team status (dpyzhov) https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/fuel-bugs-status (Meeting topic: fuel)" | 16:45 | |
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| dpyzhov | Hi. We are working mostly on tricky high priority bugs. We have progress here and we are going to continue the same activity. | 16:45 |
| dpyzhov | I’ve updated bugs statistics. We still have high priority bugs income. And as we know QA doesn’t start acceptance testing yet. So we are awaiting for more bugs. | 16:45 |
| dpyzhov | It is kinda sad that we had passed FF long time ago and we still have no stable master. We had two broken BVT tests this week | 16:46 |
| dpyzhov | And much more last week | 16:46 |
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| mihgen | do we have analysis on why it has been happening ..? | 16:46 |
| dpyzhov | Centos 7.2 is one reason | 16:47 |
| dpyzhov | another is a bug in rabbitmq container that has been hiding for a year | 16:47 |
| maximov | yes. unexpected Centos upgrade to 7.2 caused regressions. so we are considering to roll it back | 16:47 |
| maximov | to 7.1 version | 16:47 |
| mihgen | if it's the reason, +1 for rolling it back. We are blocking QA for finding more issues in other areas | 16:48 |
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| maximov | ok | 16:48 |
| dpyzhov | Everyone in my team has a bug and we have about 5 bugs in our queue | 16:49 |
| dpyzhov | so we in the same shape as usual | 16:49 |
| mihgen | Major focus should be unblock QA | 16:49 |
| dpyzhov | sure | 16:49 |
| maximov | dpyzhov: can you update us about swarm-blocker tag? | 16:49 |
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| dpyzhov | it is a next topic | 16:49 |
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| mihgen | so I'm for dropping any other work if there are blockers filed by QA | 16:50 |
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| mihgen | if that's needed, of course | 16:50 |
| mihgen | let's move to another topic then) 10min left | 16:50 |
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| xarses | #topic swarm-blocker and swarm-fail-driver tags usage (dpyzhov) | 16:50 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "swarm-blocker and swarm-fail-driver tags usage (dpyzhov) (Meeting topic: fuel)" | 16:50 | |
| dpyzhov | We have two tags: swarm-blocker and swarm-fail-driver. And there are many bugs with these topics | 16:51 |
| dpyzhov | Today we've decided to have only swarm-blocker tag for bugs that blocks at least 3 testcases | 16:51 |
| dpyzhov | It is about 0.9% of swarm | 16:51 |
| dpyzhov | QA will remove extra tags and we'll announce it | 16:51 |
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| dpyzhov | another use for swarm-blocker tag is bugs that block bvt | 16:52 |
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| dpyzhov | so if you see swarm-blocker tag on your bug it means that is really urgent and needs to be fixed asap | 16:52 |
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| mihgen | this seems to be a good idea. we had related discussion in sunnyvale, and came to similar ideas | 16:52 |
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| dpyzhov | I hope we'll remove extra tags tomorrow | 16:53 |
| dpyzhov | Anyway there will be announce in openstack-dev | 16:53 |
| salmon_ | why not just mark it as critical? :) | 16:53 |
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| xarses | moving? | 16:54 |
| mihgen | that's one of the things actually - I'd expect that all those swarm-blockers are of Critical priority | 16:54 |
| dpyzhov | because we have another rules for priorities | 16:54 |
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| dpyzhov | mihgen: are you expecting the same rules here? set critical priority for bug that affects 1% of swarm? | 16:55 |
| mihgen | thanks for working on this with nurla, please announce what you've agreed upon - and then we can review / comment | 16:55 |
| dpyzhov | ok | 16:56 |
| xarses | #topic Bareon new project (fork fuel_agent) (evgenyl) http://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/openstack-dev/2015-December/082397.html | 16:56 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Bareon new project (fork fuel_agent) (evgenyl) http://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/openstack-dev/2015-December/082397.html (Meeting topic: fuel)" | 16:56 | |
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| evgenyl | Hi. | 16:56 |
| evgenyl | Will not take too much time, just a small announcement, we’ve started development of fuel_agent as a separate from Fuel project, the details are in the email on openstack-dev, if you have any question join us on #openstack-bareon channel. | 16:56 |
| xarses | #action dpyzhov will announce changes in swarm-blocker tag | 16:56 |
| evgenyl | #link http://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/openstack-dev/2015-December/082397.html | 16:56 |
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| mihgen | this is great evgenyl, I'd love to see more of this happening for other Fuel parts | 16:57 |
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| mihgen | we have to keep Fuel working great as set of components though | 16:58 |
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| mihgen | it has to be rock stable when it's built into single Fuel install | 16:58 |
| evgenyl | mihgen: yes, the plan is to have integration layer between components. | 16:58 |
| evgenyl | mihgen: and we know how to do it gradually. | 16:58 |
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| evgenyl | #link http://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/openstack-dev/2015-December/082572.html | 16:59 |
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| xarses | time check | 16:59 |
| mihgen | great, I'll take a look | 16:59 |
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| xarses | thanks all | 17:00 |
| xarses | #endmeeting | 17:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 17:00 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Thu Dec 17 17:00:02 2015 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 17:00 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/fuel/2015/fuel.2015-12-17-16.01.html | 17:00 |
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| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/fuel/2015/fuel.2015-12-17-16.01.txt | 17:00 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/fuel/2015/fuel.2015-12-17-16.01.log.html | 17:00 |
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| hyakuhei | #startmeeting security | 17:00 |
| openstack | Meeting started Thu Dec 17 17:00:36 2015 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is hyakuhei. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 17:00 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 17:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: security)" | 17:00 | |
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| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'security' | 17:00 |
| elmiko | hi | 17:00 |
| browne | hi | 17:00 |
| hyakuhei | #chair elmiko | 17:01 |
| openstack | Current chairs: elmiko hyakuhei | 17:01 |
| bknudson | hola | 17:01 |
| hyakuhei | ^ My internet is terrible today so adding elmiko as chair | 17:01 |
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| elmiko | ack | 17:01 |
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| elmiko | bknudson: lol, don't you start... ;) | 17:01 |
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| sigmavirus24 | o/ | 17:01 |
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| hyakuhei | tmcpeak sends his appologies | 17:02 |
| elmiko | hyakuhei: did you have an agenda set up? | 17:02 |
| hyakuhei | tkelsey: you around? | 17:02 |
| tkelsey | hey yeah | 17:02 |
| sigmavirus24 | ¿Cómo está todo el mundo? | 17:02 |
| hyakuhei | #link http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/security/2015/security.2015-12-10-17.00.html agenda | 17:02 |
| hyakuhei | elmiko: ^ | 17:02 |
| elmiko | sigmavirus24: shades of #openstack-security | 17:03 |
| elmiko | hyakuhei: thanks! | 17:03 |
| sigmavirus24 | elmiko: only for you | 17:03 |
| hyakuhei | cool so it's time for people to start booking travel etc for the mid-cycle! | 17:03 |
| hyakuhei | #topic midcycpe | 17:03 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "midcycpe (Meeting topic: security)" | 17:03 | |
| hyakuhei | sigh... | 17:03 |
| browne | i'm booked | 17:03 |
| bknudson | I haven't gotten formal approval yet, but managers haven't said no either. | 17:03 |
| sigmavirus24 | I'm booked for the midcycpe too | 17:03 |
| hyakuhei | So yes, book your travel for the midcycpe... you'll see that I've added more detail to the etherpad | 17:04 |
| elmiko | i'm in a similar state as bknudson | 17:04 |
| hyakuhei | I'm intending on being there for the Barbican stuff too. | 17:04 |
| bknudson | also I'm trying to advertise it so that maybe we can get more from IBM to attend | 17:04 |
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| elmiko | neat | 17:04 |
| bknudson | I'm hoping to get 1 or 2 more to attend at least | 17:04 |
| hyakuhei | #link https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/security-mitaka-midcycle | 17:05 |
| hyakuhei | bknudson: excellent | 17:05 |
| browne | bknudson: get some of those IBM austiners | 17:05 |
| bknudson | actually, more like 2-3... forgot someone | 17:05 |
| hyakuhei | So if everyone who's intending to attend take a look at the topics on the etherpad and add your name by things you care about / want to lead. | 17:06 |
| hyakuhei | You can suggest things even if you don't want to lead them | 17:06 |
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| michaelxin | I invited Major for the meeting | 17:06 |
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| hyakuhei | excellent, I was happy to see his name by a few things :D | 17:07 |
| michaelxin | all rooms have been booked. | 17:07 |
| michaelxin | We should be good to go. | 17:07 |
| hyakuhei | The Barbican guys have a good list of local hotels etc | 17:07 |
| elmiko | cool | 17:07 |
| hyakuhei | #link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Sprints/BarbicanMitakaSprint | 17:07 |
| michaelxin | I will add my contact info to the page | 17:07 |
| michaelxin | and direction to the castle and check in procedure. | 17:08 |
| browne | i went with a-loft. hopefully shuttle is good enough so i don't need to rent a car | 17:08 |
| michaelxin | We should be ready! | 17:08 |
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| browne | the midcycle agenda has left out Anchor. was that on purpose? | 17:09 |
| hyakuhei | michaelxin: How do refreshments / caffination facilities work at this location, should we arrange to buy something in? | 17:09 |
| michaelxin | hyakuhei: no worry. | 17:09 |
| hyakuhei | browne: Not particularly, I'll add somethign | 17:10 |
| michaelxin | We will provide them | 17:10 |
| * hyakuhei can't seem to type today. | 17:10 | |
| michaelxin | There are free soda, water, coffee in the castle | 17:10 |
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| hyakuhei | woot! | 17:10 |
| bknudson | food trucks | 17:10 |
| browne | score | 17:10 |
| michaelxin | We will provide some refreshments, or better coffee. | 17:10 |
| elmiko | wow | 17:10 |
| hyakuhei | michaelxin: You guys should do this more often :P | 17:11 |
| michaelxin | We will provide breakfast and lunch | 17:11 |
| browne | and since its a castle, i assume there will be swords | 17:11 |
| elmiko | lol | 17:11 |
| hyakuhei | ok any more midcycle-things? | 17:11 |
| michaelxin | We will have budget for one happy hour dinner. | 17:12 |
| elmiko | oooh | 17:12 |
| hyakuhei | Excellent, I'll talk to HPE about getting some budget to either throw in with you or take everyone out another night | 17:12 |
| michaelxin | hyakuhei: +1 | 17:12 |
| michaelxin | cool | 17:12 |
| hyakuhei | Let me know which would be more appropriate | 17:12 |
| michaelxin | I need to run | 17:12 |
| michaelxin | another night will be great | 17:12 |
| michaelxin | :-) | 17:13 |
| michaelxin | what do you all think? | 17:13 |
| elmiko | yea, definitely another night ;) | 17:13 |
| browne | +1 | 17:13 |
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| michaelxin | sorry, need to take off. | 17:13 |
| michaelxin | bye | 17:13 |
| hyakuhei | thanks michaelxin | 17:14 |
| elmiko | take care michaelxin | 17:14 |
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| hyakuhei | ok, next topic | 17:14 |
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| hyakuhei | #topic Embargo Privacy | 17:15 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Embargo Privacy (Meeting topic: security)" | 17:15 | |
| hyakuhei | From time to time some of you might be asked to help out with a private OSSA or OSSN | 17:15 |
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| hyakuhei | It's important that on these occasions you keep any information in those discussions private | 17:15 |
| hyakuhei | including the title of the issue, the service that might be affected etc. | 17:16 |
| bknudson | it would be handy to have a doc to point people to. | 17:16 |
| elmiko | bknudson: +1 | 17:16 |
| hyakuhei | TBH most of the time it's core-sec so that's 3-4 people | 17:16 |
| bknudson | (if there isn't one already) | 17:16 |
| hyakuhei | One issue we had was that when a bug was assigned to the OSSN queue, everyone in OSSP could see it, even if the bug was a private one. That's changed now so that only the core-sec people will have visibility of such things | 17:17 |
| hyakuhei | bknudson: elmiko I'm happy to consider writing up a doc | 17:17 |
| hyakuhei | but other than saying "keep private things private" - I'm not sure what I'd put it in | 17:17 |
| hyakuhei | *in it | 17:17 |
| elmiko | hyakuhei: i think it would be useful, but given what you said about the audience maybe it doesn't need to be huge | 17:17 |
| hyakuhei | This is just a general reminder really, it doesn't apply to most of you | 17:17 |
| hyakuhei | elmiko: Righto, I'll put something on the wiki, we should probably document a little more about core-sec anyway | 17:18 |
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| sigmavirus24 | There was some documentation about it in the past | 17:18 |
| elmiko | hyakuhei: i don't think it hurt | 17:18 |
| elmiko | *it will hurt | 17:18 |
| * sigmavirus24 shrugs | 17:18 | |
| bknudson | the common mistake is posting a review to gerrit | 17:19 |
| hyakuhei | bknudson: Yup, developers accidentally disclose this stuff all the time | 17:19 |
| hyakuhei | but we want to be better than them ;) | 17:19 |
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| bknudson | so maybe include some things to remind people not to do it. | 17:19 |
| hyakuhei | Sure | 17:20 |
| hyakuhei | though private OSSNs generally get written and reviewed in a private GitLab account | 17:21 |
| hyakuhei | ok, that's all I had on this - I don't really want to labor the point | 17:21 |
| bknudson | that would be a good suggestion | 17:21 |
| bknudson | I haven't seen that done for code patches. | 17:21 |
| hyakuhei | bknudson: So the context is really just writing OSSN/OSSA - A document for how to handle private bugs in general would be the responsibility of the VMT - whom I believe have already done great work in this area | 17:22 |
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| hyakuhei | ok, so looking at the standing agenda I can't see anything that's had a lot of movement this week | 17:23 |
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| hyakuhei | #topic PR | 17:23 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "PR (Meeting topic: security)" | 17:23 | |
| hyakuhei | sicarie: you around? | 17:23 |
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| sicarie | yep | 17:23 |
| hyakuhei | I heard you gave a good talk involving the security project yesterday or the day before | 17:24 |
| hyakuhei | can you breif us on it ? | 17:24 |
| sicarie | Sure | 17:24 |
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| sicarie | I presented the OSSP deck at the Seattle OpenStack meetup on Tuesday | 17:24 |
| sicarie | Overall it was well received | 17:24 |
| sicarie | a few good questions | 17:24 |
| sicarie | two follow-ups on people who may be interested | 17:24 |
| sicarie | (that I know of) | 17:25 |
| tkelsey | nice one sicarie :) anything we should add into the deck ? | 17:25 |
| elmiko | how big was the attendance? | 17:25 |
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| sicarie | tkelsey: I definitely changed up that deck | 17:25 |
| sicarie | The deck is here | 17:26 |
| sicarie | #link https://docs.google.com/presentation/d/13GG47EdoQCBEGqMe7ji_UzfO9okMTLgbnK5_UpoaXYA/edit?usp=sharing | 17:26 |
| tkelsey | could you share out your revised version some place? we should iterate on stuff as we present it | 17:26 |
| tkelsey | ah :D awesome | 17:26 |
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| sicarie | elmiko: 20-30? | 17:26 |
| sicarie | I’m bad at estimating crowd size | 17:27 |
| elmiko | nice | 17:27 |
| hyakuhei | I'm all for iterating on the live deck :) | 17:27 |
| sicarie | they had chairs in the front, but poeple were walking around back by the food | 17:27 |
| sicarie | probably more the food than listening to me jabber | 17:27 |
| elmiko | hehe | 17:27 |
| sicarie | hyakuhei: I gave the caveat it would be a living doc, so those in attendance are prepared for it to change | 17:28 |
| hyakuhei | Excellent | 17:28 |
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| hyakuhei | I'm sure if you wanted something to distribute you could use the export-as-PDF and then put it in the cloud somewhere :P | 17:29 |
| hyakuhei | Azure or maybe AWS ... just to be safe | 17:29 |
| tkelsey | lol | 17:29 |
| elmiko | real nice... | 17:29 |
| sicarie | I was going to take the flyers Rackspace posted, but didn’t end up taking a bag with me | 17:29 |
| hyakuhei | They were good | 17:29 |
| sicarie | In hindsight those would have been good to leave by the food | 17:30 |
| elmiko | +1 | 17:30 |
| bknudson | OSSG napkins | 17:30 |
| elmiko | hahaha | 17:30 |
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| hyakuhei | I guess it's too late for us to try and get some clothing made up | 17:30 |
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| hyakuhei | but I'll try to get something lined up for the next summit | 17:30 |
| sicarie | well, i’m interested to see how the other ones go | 17:30 |
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| hyakuhei | We don't have an nkinder here today. | 17:32 |
| hyakuhei | #topic OSSN | 17:32 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OSSN (Meeting topic: security)" | 17:32 | |
| hyakuhei | We had a couple of OSSNs issued | 17:32 |
| elmiko | \o/ | 17:32 |
| hyakuhei | #link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Security_Notes | 17:32 |
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| hyakuhei | 62 and 61 are the new ones | 17:33 |
| hyakuhei | That's all I have on OSSN | 17:33 |
| hyakuhei | The queue only has a couple | 17:33 |
| hyakuhei | #link https://bugs.launchpad.net/ossn | 17:34 |
| hyakuhei | It'd be good to have that cleared by the midcycle | 17:34 |
| hyakuhei | and a nice place to be in comparison to the last midcycle ;) | 17:34 |
| elmiko | totally | 17:35 |
| hyakuhei | Is there anything interesting going on with Bandit? tkelsey ? | 17:35 |
| elmiko | i thought there was some issue with that blacklist one? | 17:35 |
| tkelsey | there are a few patches in review, we are pushing on with the plan to remove the config file | 17:35 |
| tkelsey | please take a look if people are interested/have cycles | 17:35 |
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| tkelsey | I have put some words down in the either pad around topics for the midcycle bandit session | 17:36 |
| tkelsey | please leave feedback there as well :) | 17:36 |
| elmiko | tkelsey: will the migration to config-less be an issue for projects currently using bandit? | 17:36 |
| hyakuhei | excellent | 17:36 |
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| tkelsey | elmiko: no it shouldnt be, the old config will still work | 17:36 |
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| elmiko | got it, thanks | 17:36 |
| tkelsey | its being deprecated and made optional | 17:36 |
| elmiko | cool, that should make it easy =) | 17:37 |
| tkelsey | yeah :) thats the plan | 17:37 |
| tkelsey | thats all I have for now | 17:37 |
| tkelsey | for specifics around the config file stuff, please see the spec | 17:38 |
| hyakuhei | Great | 17:38 |
| hyakuhei | So I'm going to move along to AOB :) | 17:38 |
| tkelsey | #link https://blueprints.launchpad.net/bandit/+spec/config-change | 17:38 |
| hyakuhei | #topic Any Other Business | 17:39 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Any Other Business (Meeting topic: security)" | 17:39 | |
| tkelsey | no AOB from me, other than to say im looking forward to the midcycle :) | 17:39 |
| bknudson | meeting next week? | 17:40 |
| hyakuhei | I think we can give everyone christmas-eve off | 17:40 |
| hyakuhei | So long as they write one OSSN each :) | 17:40 |
| elmiko | lol, nice | 17:40 |
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| tkelsey | haha | 17:41 |
| hyakuhei | ok, lets call it there then! | 17:41 |
| hyakuhei | #endmeeting | 17:41 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 17:41 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Thu Dec 17 17:41:33 2015 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 17:41 |
| hyakuhei | Thanks all! | 17:41 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/security/2015/security.2015-12-17-17.00.html | 17:41 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/security/2015/security.2015-12-17-17.00.txt | 17:41 |
| elmiko | thanks hyakuhei | 17:41 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/security/2015/security.2015-12-17-17.00.log.html | 17:41 |
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| tkelsey | thanks all :) | 17:42 |
| tkelsey | happy holidays | 17:42 |
| elmiko | you too tkelsey ! | 17:42 |
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