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| bauzas | #startmeeting nova_scheduler | 14:00 |
|---|---|---|
| openstack | Meeting started Mon Nov 9 14:00:16 2015 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is bauzas. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 14:00 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 14:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: nova_scheduler)" | 14:00 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'nova_scheduler' | 14:00 |
| edleafe | o/ | 14:00 |
| bauzas | mornooning | 14:00 |
| edleafe | Good UGT morning! | 14:00 |
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| bauzas | so n0ano is enjoying OPNFV Summit, I'm just holding the meeting :) | 14:01 |
| jichen | o/ | 14:01 |
| edleafe | bauzas: thanks for running it. Didn't see Don's message until this morning | 14:02 |
| bauzas | np | 14:02 |
| edleafe | I have a nasty habit of not working on weekends :) | 14:02 |
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| bauzas | I don't have a precise agenda in mind so I guess it should be short | 14:02 |
| * johnthetubaguy lurks | 14:02 | |
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| bauzas | lxsli: around for talking about scheduling bits? | 14:03 |
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| bauzas | that DST shift for both US and EU folks probably threw some people under the bus | 14:04 |
| edleafe | if not, I wanted to discuss https://review.openstack.org/#/c/242636/ | 14:04 |
| bauzas | okay, let's start then | 14:04 |
| bauzas | people can join lately | 14:04 |
| johnthetubaguy | so I have some requests, but we can leave that to open | 14:04 |
| bauzas | johnthetubaguy: surre | 14:04 |
| edleafe | It simply makes the resource tracker class a config option | 14:04 |
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| bauzas | so, last week's meeting was pretty brief http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/nova_scheduler/2015/nova_scheduler.2015-11-02-14.01.log.html | 14:04 |
| PaulMurray | o/ | 14:04 |
| bauzas | #topic summit | 14:05 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "summit (Meeting topic: nova_scheduler)" | 14:05 | |
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| bauzas | #link https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/mitaka-nova-resource-modeling | 14:05 |
| bauzas | #link https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/mitaka-nova-scheduler | 14:06 |
| bauzas | were the two sessions dedicated to the scheduler | 14:06 |
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| bauzas | given most of us were present at the summit, I won't speak about, unless someone steps in | 14:06 |
| bauzas | just to make sure everyone is aware of the decisions we had | 14:06 |
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| bauzas | #info Nova-scheduler has been identified as a priority for Mitaka, in particular Resource modeling and usage | 14:07 |
| bauzas | most of our specs are merged for Mitaka unless I'm wrong ? | 14:08 |
| edleafe | there's still jaypipes' resource provider spec | 14:08 |
| bauzas | oh right | 14:08 |
| bauzas | that one isn't approved yet | 14:08 |
| edleafe | which I'm having conceptual difficulties with | 14:08 |
| edleafe | I'mm thinkning of providing a simpler spec | 14:08 |
| bauzas | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/225546/ | 14:08 |
| edleafe | but it's not fully cooked in my head yet | 14:09 |
| edleafe | probably by later today | 14:09 |
| johnthetubaguy | the list in the etherpad for the scheduler seems very small: https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/mitaka-nova-spec-review-tracking | 14:09 |
| johnthetubaguy | it just includes this blueprint: https://blueprints.launchpad.net/nova/+spec/configurable-resource-tracker | 14:09 |
| bauzas | johnthetubaguy: fair point, we need a bit of summit mojo before going further | 14:09 |
| johnthetubaguy | edleafe: I don't see that blueprint as part of the scheduler priority, at least as discussed at the summit? | 14:10 |
| bauzas | #action bauzas to update https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/mitaka-nova-spec-review-tracking with https://review.openstack.org/#/c/225546/ and possibly others | 14:10 |
| bauzas | it hasn't been discussed AFAIR | 14:11 |
| edleafe | johnthetubaguy: it has to do with the distributed scheduler efforts | 14:11 |
| * alex_xu lurks | 14:11 | |
| johnthetubaguy | edleafe: didn't think that was a focus for mitaka, but thats maybe a different discussion | 14:11 |
| edleafe | I spoke with a few people who had ideas on this, and it seemed that the RT was a sticking point for most | 14:11 |
| johnthetubaguy | edleafe: feels like it needs a spec anyways | 14:11 |
| edleafe | johnthetubaguy: agreed, not a focus | 14:11 |
| bauzas | johnthetubaguy: yup, the priority was about providing resource objects to the scheduler, not more than that | 14:12 |
| PaulMurray | bauzas, I'm going to have a question resource tracking, but I think its better for opens - would you remind me when we get there | 14:12 |
| bauzas | okay, I feel we can move on | 14:12 |
| johnthetubaguy | edleafe: OK, so lets catch up afterwards and work out how to get that reviewed | 14:12 |
| bauzas | since we should have some questions of opens | 14:12 |
| bauzas | #topic bugs | 14:12 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "bugs (Meeting topic: nova_scheduler)" | 14:12 | |
| edleafe | johnthetubaguy: ok, I can write a spec if you think it needs one | 14:12 |
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| bauzas | just to make sure people don't forget to lookup any open bug | 14:12 |
| bauzas | https://bugs.launchpad.net/nova/+bugs?field.tag=scheduler is a bit high (30) | 14:13 |
| bauzas | we should probably do some triage | 14:13 |
| bauzas | I can handle that with markus_z | 14:14 |
| bauzas | any open bug that people want to raise? | 14:14 |
| bauzas | I don't see a recent one tho | 14:15 |
| bauzas | ok, moving on | 14:15 |
| bauzas | #topic opens | 14:15 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "opens (Meeting topic: nova_scheduler)" | 14:15 | |
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| bauzas | so, edleafe you had one spec to discuss | 14:16 |
| bauzas | #link https://blueprints.launchpad.net/nova/+spec/configurable-resource-tracker | 14:16 |
| bauzas | s/spec/blueprint | 14:16 |
| edleafe | well, let's consider that on hold for now | 14:16 |
| edleafe | it simply makes RT a config option | 14:16 |
| edleafe | no change in default behavior | 14:16 |
| bauzas | a config option like what ? | 14:16 |
| bauzas | you mean a pluggable RT ? | 14:17 |
| edleafe | which class to instantiate for the RT object | 14:17 |
| edleafe | just like the scheduler, the host manager, etc | 14:17 |
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| bauzas | mmm, I have to doublecheck but process-wise, I feel we wanted to avoid to have config opts pointing classes | 14:17 |
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| jaypipes | bauzas: ++ | 14:18 |
| bauzas | and use other stuff like stevedore rather | 14:18 |
| johnthetubaguy | it would have to be stevedore or similar, I feel, not sure it makes sense otherwise | 14:18 |
| johnthetubaguy | yeah ++ | 14:18 |
| bauzas | which concerns me a bit for RT, but that can be discussed in the spec | 14:18 |
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| edleafe | ok, understood | 14:18 |
| edleafe | I was following the existing pattern | 14:18 |
| bauzas | which is not the one we want to reproduce :D | 14:19 |
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| johnthetubaguy | edleafe: its one we are trying to destroy, if you could patch the scope doc to document that, it would be great | 14:19 |
| bauzas | +1 | 14:19 |
| bauzas | that could go into the review doc | 14:19 |
| johnthetubaguy | or anyone for that matter, that would be cool | 14:19 |
| edleafe | ok | 14:19 |
| bauzas | speaking of http://docs.openstack.org/developer/nova/code-review.html | 14:20 |
| edleafe | I literally copy/pasted/edited https://github.com/openstack/nova/blob/master/nova/scheduler/driver.py#L29-L33 | 14:20 |
| bauzas | I know... | 14:20 |
| bauzas | edleafe: but consider jaypipes's BP for metric monitors | 14:20 |
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| bauzas | edleafe: you'll see he used stevedore for that | 14:20 |
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| bauzas | sorry if that's undocumented, hence very good johnthetubaguy's point - that needs to be explained | 14:20 |
| johnthetubaguy | we should fix that up, like we did for the virt drivers | 14:20 |
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| bauzas | but that's an implementation detail | 14:21 |
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| bauzas | johnthetubaguy: sounds a good low-hanging-fruit | 14:21 |
| edleafe | so would a (low priority) change be to replace existing code like the one I referenced with stevedore-type imports? | 14:21 |
| bauzas | #action bauzas to open a low-hanging-fruit for using stevedore with scheduler driver | 14:21 |
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| bauzas | edleafe: yeah that | 14:21 |
| edleafe | ok, cool | 14:21 |
| jaypipes | edleafe, bauzas, ndipanov, johnthetubaguy, lxsli: would appreciate another review round on https://review.openstack.org/#/c/225546/ | 14:21 |
| bauzas | I know that's not a bug, but that's the only way we have to log an easy feature people can do | 14:22 |
| edleafe | jaypipes: been going over that a lot | 14:22 |
| bauzas | jaypipes: yeah we covered that in the previous section, that's top prio | 14:22 |
| edleafe | jaypipes: still seems like a huge amount of complexity for a small variation in behavior | 14:22 |
| johnthetubaguy | so thats maybe a good segway to my question | 14:23 |
| bauzas | johnthetubaguy: go for it | 14:23 |
| jaypipes | edleafe: alternatives welcome. | 14:23 |
| johnthetubaguy | we should make a list of our spec and blueprint review priorities in here: https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/mitaka-nova-spec-review-tracking | 14:23 |
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| bauzas | fair point | 14:23 |
| johnthetubaguy | I can try make sure we get the most focus on those | 14:23 |
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| johnthetubaguy | the code still goes in the usual place here: | 14:24 |
| johnthetubaguy | #link https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/mitaka-nova-priorities-tracking | 14:24 |
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| johnthetubaguy | #link https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/mitaka-nova-spec-review-tracking | 14:24 |
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| johnthetubaguy | just adding those into the meeting notes | 14:24 |
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| johnthetubaguy | we spoke about getting help for implementing some of these | 14:24 |
| bauzas | the reqspec-object had very nice review traction thanks to dansmith and jaypipes but anyone can also contribute | 14:24 |
| johnthetubaguy | once we have the overall direction agreed | 14:24 |
| bauzas | johnthetubaguy: yup | 14:25 |
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| johnthetubaguy | just wondering how we want to handle that | 14:25 |
| bauzas | johnthetubaguy: for the moment, the only way I see is to open wishlist bugs as placeholders for referencing a BP | 14:25 |
| bauzas | it's another hop tho | 14:25 |
| johnthetubaguy | thats not really worth it, IMHO | 14:25 |
| bauzas | ideally, I'd love to see a low-hanging-fruit tag for blueprints | 14:25 |
| johnthetubaguy | we do have an etherpad, #link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Nova/Mentoring#What_should_I_work_on.3F | 14:25 |
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| johnthetubaguy | we can't add tags to blueprints, otherwise that would be great | 14:26 |
| bauzas | oh snap, indeed | 14:26 |
| johnthetubaguy | but this is more about stuff in the middle I think | 14:26 |
| bauzas | there is the low-hanging-fruit etherpad, awesomeness | 14:26 |
| johnthetubaguy | stuff we have a plan for, but folks who know Nova could chew on it | 14:26 |
| bauzas | that should usually be balanced in those meetings IMHO | 14:27 |
| johnthetubaguy | probably just starting with an ML list post, talking about good places to jump in an help would be good | 14:27 |
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| johnthetubaguy | asking folks to jump into this meeting, I guess is how the get started | 14:27 |
| bauzas | yup | 14:27 |
| johnthetubaguy | probably need to make that clearer | 14:27 |
| johnthetubaguy | somehow | 14:27 |
| johnthetubaguy | that was all for me really | 14:28 |
| bauzas | okay, we just need to make sure people are aware of that | 14:28 |
| johnthetubaguy | basically communication bits and bobs | 14:28 |
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| bauzas | anyone who want to step up on scheduling bits can walk into the meeting bar | 14:28 |
| johnthetubaguy | a quick ML post I think is a good action | 14:29 |
| johnthetubaguy | who fancies doing that? | 14:29 |
| bauzas | I can handle that | 14:29 |
| johnthetubaguy | bauzas? | 14:29 |
| johnthetubaguy | bauzas: thank you | 14:29 |
| bauzas | #action bauzas to write an ML thread about how to step up for the scheduler bigs | 14:29 |
| bauzas | meh | 14:30 |
| bauzas | #undo | 14:30 |
| openstack | Removing item from minutes: <ircmeeting.items.Action object at 0xa376150> | 14:30 |
| bauzas | #action bauzas to write an ML thread about how to step up for the scheduler bits | 14:30 |
| bauzas | ok, are we taking the 30min left to discuss about jaypipes's resource-providers spec ? | 14:30 |
| bauzas | or are we considering it's worth reviewing it rather ? | 14:30 |
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| PaulMurray | I had a question - its a pretty open one | 14:31 |
| bauzas | PaulMurray: sure | 14:31 |
| PaulMurray | now that I've removed the ERT | 14:31 |
| PaulMurray | (or at least as soon as it gets through the gate) | 14:31 |
| bauzas | s/removed/deprecated :) | 14:31 |
| PaulMurray | I wanted to circle back on why it was there in the first place | 14:31 |
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| PaulMurray | We needed a way to deal with accounting cpus differently | 14:32 |
| PaulMurray | If we created a resource representing cpus that was accounted differently | 14:32 |
| PaulMurray | would that be seen as another new resource? | 14:32 |
| PaulMurray | jaypipes, ^^ :) | 14:33 |
| johnthetubaguy | PaulMurray: we should totally have got that problem specification into a backlog spec, I think | 14:33 |
| bauzas | PaulMurray: you thinking of a new Resource class representing vcpus ? | 14:33 |
| PaulMurray | maybe | 14:33 |
| johnthetubaguy | PaulMurray: this is a consistent way of handing out CPU resources across CPUs of different speed/capacities? | 14:33 |
| PaulMurray | there was also a problem with ironic htat could be addressed this way | 14:33 |
| PaulMurray | ironic takes all memory for example - not just deduct it | 14:34 |
| jaypipes | PaulMurray: it's a vCPU. it's not a different resource class. | 14:34 |
| bauzas | PaulMurray: that's done in the IronicHostManager, right? | 14:34 |
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| jaypipes | PaulMurray: Ironic's issues are dealt with using the min_unit and max_unit fields in the resource-providers spec. | 14:35 |
| bauzas | PaulMurray: and then the virt driver is reporting the real resource usage | 14:35 |
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| PaulMurray | jaypipes, I'll need to read that | 14:35 |
| jaypipes | PaulMurray: and yes, the resource reporting problem is handled in the ironic-multi-compute spec, too (temporarily until resource-providers modeling solves the issue once and for all) | 14:36 |
| PaulMurray | jaypipes, but for cpu example, its not quite vcpu - because we would always say how many vcpu | 14:36 |
| PaulMurray | jaypipes, its about what amount of time gets allocated to the vm vcpu | 14:36 |
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| PaulMurray | we wanted to give an idea of performance (like 1GHz worth for example) | 14:37 |
| PaulMurray | if I want 4 vcpu each worth about 1GHz | 14:37 |
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| PaulMurray | how could I account taking 1GHz worth from my available resources given each has say 2GHz worth of performance | 14:38 |
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| jaypipes | PaulMurray: that isn't quantitative. that is qualitative, and thus is capabilities, not resoruces. | 14:38 |
| PaulMurray | sorry - I disagree | 14:39 |
| PaulMurray | same applies for bandwidth on nics | 14:39 |
| edleafe | PaulMurray: So can you divide one 2Ghz vcpu into 2 1Ghz vcpus? | 14:39 |
| PaulMurray | edleafe, yes | 14:39 |
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| edleafe | Or 10 0.2 Ghz vcpus? | 14:40 |
| PaulMurray | we do it in HP public cloud - always have done | 14:40 |
| edleafe | Or... | 14:40 |
| PaulMurray | edleafe, you get the idea | 14:40 |
| edleafe | IOW, is it discreet chunks, or infinitely divisible? | 14:40 |
| jaypipes | erm, you can't divide one 2ghz CPU into 2 1Ghz CPUs. | 14:40 |
| PaulMurray | jaypipes, no, but you give them time slices | 14:41 |
| bauzas | I feel it's more about how to provide a quantity over time than just a finite quantity | 14:41 |
| PaulMurray | yo can certainly run 2 vcpu on one cpu | 14:41 |
| bauzas | yeah that | 14:41 |
| bauzas | so, like concurrency | 14:41 |
| jaypipes | PaulMurray: that is oversubscription. | 14:41 |
| bauzas | I feel it's not exactly that | 14:41 |
| PaulMurray | jaypipes, not if you give half each | 14:41 |
| jaypipes | PaulMurray: has nothing to do with dividing Ghz. | 14:41 |
| johnthetubaguy | its basically varying the over commit to try and make the performance feel the same across different CPUs running at different clock speeds right? | 14:41 |
| jaypipes | it's cgroups limits. | 14:42 |
| johnthetubaguy | so trying to have CPU agnosic measure for CPU | 14:42 |
| jaypipes | that's all. | 14:42 |
| jaypipes | johnthetubaguy: that is normalized compute units. | 14:42 |
| johnthetubaguy | jaypipes: I think thats what they are wanting here | 14:42 |
| jaypipes | https://review.openstack.org/#/c/192609/ | 14:42 |
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| johnthetubaguy | yeah, that sounds similar to me | 14:43 |
| jaypipes | johnthetubaguy: sure, but it has nothing to do with "accounting for vCPUs differently" | 14:43 |
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| johnthetubaguy | well, it does affect the overcommit rations and things, right? | 14:43 |
| jaypipes | no | 14:44 |
| johnthetubaguy | so you want the flavor to save 6 units, across 2 vCPUs I guess? | 14:44 |
| PaulMurray | jaypipes, there is a total amount of time slices per core - you can provide a given performance so long as you don't over commit those time slices | 14:44 |
| johnthetubaguy | PaulMurray: am I miss interpreting your request here? | 14:44 |
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| jaypipes | PaulMurray: and that would be a new resource class. | 14:44 |
| PaulMurray | jaypipes, that's cool by me | 14:45 |
| jaypipes | PaulMurray: it's not "multiple ways of accounting for vCPU" | 14:45 |
| jaypipes | PaulMurray: cool. | 14:45 |
| PaulMurray | jaypipes, agreed | 14:45 |
| johnthetubaguy | right, that makes sense to me | 14:45 |
| jaypipes | vCPU == number of threads of qemu-kvm process for the VM. | 14:45 |
| jaypipes | CPU shares is a different resource class altogether. | 14:45 |
| PaulMurray | absolutely | 14:45 |
| jaypipes | cool, we're on the same page. | 14:45 |
| bauzas | I see | 14:45 |
| johnthetubaguy | yup, makes sense | 14:45 |
| jaypipes | PaulMurray: once the resource-object models initial patches are in, let's add a new resource class for CPU shares (or units, or whatevs) | 14:46 |
| PaulMurray | jaypipes, so if we made a resource for that - would they both always be there or is it up to the operator to chose which are used? | 14:46 |
| johnthetubaguy | PaulMurray: I think you need both right? unless you always have 1 vCPU exposed to the guest or something? | 14:47 |
| jaypipes | PaulMurray: the CPU units resource could not always be there, because it depends on code running on nova-compute startup that would run a normalization thread to determine the supported unit for CPU. | 14:47 |
| jaypipes | PaulMurray: kinda like NUMA resources, right? | 14:47 |
| johnthetubaguy | jaypipes: yeah, +1 on it being optional that way | 14:47 |
| PaulMurray | jaypipes, yes, so are resources selectable - or does this come up as a None in some field? | 14:48 |
| jaypipes | PaulMurray: so we'd need to have an addition to the virt driver's get_available_resource() command that would return information about the available/capacity of CPU units for that hardware | 14:48 |
| bauzas | the problem is that resource-objects doesn't take care of persistence | 14:48 |
| jaypipes | PaulMurray: it would not be a None field, but rather a lack of a record in the inventories table for that compute node and the "CPU units" resource class. | 14:48 |
| bauzas | so, whatever a new Resource is created, it needs to come up with a plan on how to persist it | 14:48 |
| jaypipes | PaulMurray: make more sense now? | 14:48 |
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| bauzas | oh, because of resource-providers then | 14:49 |
| jaypipes | rigt | 14:49 |
| jaypipes | no more adding fields to compute_nodes. instead, we'd be adding records to the inventories table. | 14:49 |
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| PaulMurray | I need to read resource-providers (I did - but I need to again) | 14:49 |
| bauzas | so that not only requires resource-objects but resource-providers | 14:49 |
| PaulMurray | jaypipes, sounds like your doing everything I always wanted in ERT ! | 14:49 |
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| jaypipes | PaulMurray: sure, no worries. I just want you to know I've considered the vCPU accounting use case from HP Cloud in my thinking on the resource-objects and resource-providers stuff. | 14:50 |
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| PaulMurray | cool | 14:50 |
| bauzas | okay, I feel we need to all review resource-providers | 14:50 |
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| bauzas | (although I already did...) | 14:50 |
| jaypipes | bauzas: actually, gimme about an hour more. pushing more changes to it. | 14:50 |
| bauzas | jaypipes: good to know, ty | 14:50 |
| jaypipes | lxsli, PaulMurray, edleafe, johnthetubaguy ^^ | 14:51 |
| edleafe | jaypipes: gotcha | 14:51 |
| johnthetubaguy | ack | 14:51 |
| jaypipes | I forgot to rework the biolerplate shit. | 14:51 |
| bauzas | I felt we basically had an agreement on resource-providers at the summit, so that should be straightforward | 14:51 |
| jaypipes | bauzas: not really :) | 14:52 |
| jaypipes | bauzas: edleafe had alternative proposal. | 14:52 |
| bauzas | jaypipes: well, I remember some implementation details | 14:52 |
| PaulMurray | did I go to the same summit? | 14:52 |
| jaypipes | bauzas: which I believe lxsli also had negative feedback | 14:52 |
| bauzas | jaypipes: but I'd like to see the spec approved, and then us discussing about the implementation bits | 14:52 |
| jaypipes | PaulMurray: yes :) | 14:52 |
| jaypipes | bauzas: erm, I'd rather have more discussion on the spec right now. | 14:52 |
| bauzas | to be clear, yeah we all had questions about how to model that, but is that really spec-wise? | 14:53 |
| jaypipes | bauzas: because this is a foundational change... | 14:53 |
| bauzas | jaypipes: fair enough then | 14:53 |
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| bauzas | jaypipes: you mean the data model impact? | 14:53 |
| edleafe | yeah, working oit out on the spec seems better | 14:53 |
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| bauzas | jaypipes: okay, then we all know what to do | 14:53 |
| bauzas | 6 mins left, anything else to discuss ? | 14:54 |
| bauzas | crickets | 14:55 |
| bauzas | okay, lemme save you 5 mins of your lifetime | 14:55 |
| bauzas | #endmeeting | 14:55 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 14:55 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Mon Nov 9 14:55:19 2015 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 14:55 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/nova_scheduler/2015/nova_scheduler.2015-11-09-14.00.html | 14:55 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/nova_scheduler/2015/nova_scheduler.2015-11-09-14.00.txt | 14:55 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/nova_scheduler/2015/nova_scheduler.2015-11-09-14.00.log.html | 14:55 |
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| dims | #startmeeting oslo | 16:00 |
| openstack | Meeting started Mon Nov 9 16:00:21 2015 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is dims. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 16:00 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 16:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: oslo)" | 16:00 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'oslo' | 16:00 |
| dims | courtesy ping for GheRivero, amotoki, amrith, bknudson, bnemec, dansmith, dhellmann, dougwig, e0ne, flaper87, garyk, harlowja, haypo, | 16:00 |
| dims | courtesy ping for ihrachyshka, jd__, jecarey, johnsom, jungleboyj, kgiusti, kragniz, lifeless, lintan, ozamiatin, redrobot, rpodolyaka, spamaps | 16:00 |
| johnsom_ | o/ | 16:00 |
| dims | courtesy ping for sergmelikyan, sreshetnyak, sileht, sreshetnyak, stevemar, therve, thinrichs, toabctl, viktors, zhiyan, zzzeek | 16:00 |
| amrith | ./ | 16:00 |
| ozamiatin | o/ | 16:00 |
| bknudson | hola | 16:00 |
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| amrith | hello all | 16:00 |
| e0ne | hi | 16:00 |
| ihrachys | o/ | 16:00 |
| johnsom | hi | 16:00 |
| bknudson | howdy -- already practicing for austin | 16:01 |
| johnsom | Wow, over achiever | 16:01 |
| dims | howdy y'all - you mean? :) | 16:01 |
| bknudson | I was going to go with pardner | 16:01 |
| dims | #topic Red flags for/from liaisons | 16:01 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Red flags for/from liaisons (Meeting topic: oslo)" | 16:01 | |
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| johnsom | Nothing in my camp to mention | 16:02 |
| bknudson | none for keystone | 16:02 |
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| dims | thanks johnsom and bknudson | 16:02 |
| amrith | nothing from trove | 16:02 |
| ihrachys | none for neutron | 16:02 |
| dims | thanks amrith and ihrachys | 16:02 |
| redrobot | o/ | 16:02 |
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| dims | #topic Releases for Mitaka | 16:02 |
| dims | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/242793/ | 16:02 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Releases for Mitaka (Meeting topic: oslo)" | 16:02 | |
| dims | messaging, reports and service on deck for today... | 16:03 |
| dims | please let me know if we need to cut anything else | 16:03 |
| dims | last week, we added the stable compat jobs so these releases should not break liberty | 16:03 |
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| dims | cross my fingers | 16:04 |
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| bknudson | so stable uses mitaka releases? | 16:04 |
| dims | my travis ci for testing unit tests of different projects against oslo.* master seems happy too https://travis-ci.org/dims/ | 16:04 |
| bknudson | (if so shouldn't call the topic "Releases for Mitaka") | 16:04 |
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| dims | bknudson y, no caps in the g-r for stable/liberty | 16:04 |
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| dims | bknudson good poinr | 16:05 |
| dims | k moving on | 16:05 |
| dims | #topic openstack spec reviews | 16:05 |
| dims | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/243114/ (Pluggable CMDB for oslo.config) | 16:05 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "openstack spec reviews (Meeting topic: oslo)" | 16:05 | |
| dims | i remember we talked about similar stuff in vancouver, bnemec remember? | 16:06 |
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| jungleboyj | o/ | 16:07 |
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| jungleboyj | Sorry, got pulled into another meeting. | 16:07 |
| bnemec | Yeah, I thought harlowja_ had a spec open for that already. | 16:07 |
| dims | no worries jungleboyj | 16:07 |
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| dims | bnemec hmm, will hunt for that | 16:07 |
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| dims | harlowja_ around today? | 16:08 |
| dims | bnemec please leave some notes if you get a chance on that review...others too | 16:08 |
| dims | #topic Steps to cleanup oslo-incubator | 16:09 |
| dims | #link https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/mitaka-oslo-incubator-cleanup | 16:09 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Steps to cleanup oslo-incubator (Meeting topic: oslo)" | 16:09 | |
| bknudson | "There is `another proposal <https://review.openstack.org/130047>`" | 16:09 |
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| dims | who is interested in helping with this? (lots of reviews!) | 16:09 |
| dims | bknudson thanks | 16:09 |
| dims | i just started taking notes on what all we need to do for cleanup | 16:10 |
| dims | in the etherpad above | 16:10 |
| bknudson | should be easy reviews. | 16:10 |
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| dims | bknudson right, just yank stuff out and/or rename them | 16:10 |
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| dims | #topic First doc sprint for Mitaka | 16:12 |
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| *** openstack changes topic to "First doc sprint for Mitaka (Meeting topic: oslo)" | 16:12 | |
| yottatsa | hi | 16:12 |
| dims | yottatsa hi | 16:12 |
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| dims | anyone interested in organizing a virtual doc sprint? | 16:12 |
| dims | when's a good time? | 16:13 |
| dims | 2 days just like last time and we make sure that all reviews are merged by end of the sprint | 16:13 |
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| dims | y'all are too quiet :) | 16:14 |
| yottatsa | dims I'm interested because I have a great plans for this cycle | 16:15 |
| dims | yottatsa in doc sprint? | 16:15 |
| * dims opening up the floor | 16:16 | |
| dims | #topic Open discussion | 16:16 |
| dims | Any stuck reviews? or specs? | 16:16 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Open discussion (Meeting topic: oslo)" | 16:16 | |
| yottatsa | Yep, actually mihgen asked me to write docs not code | 16:16 |
| amrith | ./ | 16:16 |
| bknudson | pretty much any time works for me for a doc sprint | 16:16 |
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| amrith | dims, did anything come of the conversation in tokyo re: oslo.messaging driver for zaqar? | 16:16 |
| dims | bknudson ack, will ping harlowja_ and dhellmann later and throw out some dates | 16:16 |
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| dims | amrith nope | 16:16 |
| dims | yottatsa nice! | 16:17 |
| yottatsa | #link https://blueprints.launchpad.net/oslo.config/+spec/oslo-config-db could you please look on the idea | 16:17 |
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| amrith | dims, thanks. could I consider the conversation dead in that case? | 16:17 |
| dims | yottatsa want to explain a bit about the spec you filed? | 16:17 |
| amrith | 's/could/should/' | 16:18 |
| dims | amrith unless someone from zaqar shows up... | 16:18 |
| amrith | ok, thanks. | 16:18 |
| amrith | nothing else for me | 16:18 |
| dims | amrith thanks! | 16:18 |
| yottatsa | dims sure | 16:18 |
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| dims | yottatsa bknudson pointed to https://review.openstack.org/#/c/130047/ - you probably saw that one before too | 16:19 |
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| yottatsa | We're trying to run OpenStack services in containers, and this requires to inject config files to dockerized software bundles. | 16:20 |
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| yottatsa | This could be done by messing with mounting config dirs or layering containers | 16:21 |
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| dims | so you'd rather "pull" | 16:21 |
| yottatsa | Instead of this I introduced --config-db=provider://conn_string option to oslo.config's CLI. It enables pulling configuration directly from database. | 16:22 |
| dims | yottatsa just once during initialization? | 16:22 |
| bknudson | do you have any examples of other servers that can use etcd? | 16:22 |
| yottatsa | For now -- yes. | 16:22 |
| bknudson | maybe apache httpd? | 16:22 |
| dims | bknudson etcd and consul came up during the tooz/dlm discussions too | 16:23 |
| bknudson | does it store individual config options for the whole config file? | 16:23 |
| yottatsa | bknudson I have no examples of apache httpd using cmdb, but I have an example of RabbitMQ using consul https://github.com/aweber/rabbitmq-autocluster | 16:24 |
| yottatsa | bknudson it stores individual config options hierarhically | 16:24 |
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| johnsom | This brings up interesting questions. We use config drive to push out TLS certs into the service VMs. I wonder how the security would work in a pull model. | 16:25 |
| yottatsa | like --config-db=zk://192.168.99.100:2181/openstack -> /openstack/DEFAULT/admin_token for example | 16:25 |
| johnsom | (along with an oslo config) | 16:25 |
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| bknudson | you still have to get zk://192.168.99.100:2181/openstack to the container | 16:26 |
| dims | bknudson a single url is easily sent to the docker container | 16:27 |
| dims | through ENV variable for example | 16:27 |
| yottatsa | dims bknudson I've checked out 130047 before and I've mentioned this in bp. It could be an alternative, if rescoped. | 16:27 |
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| dims | yottatsa so my advice, ping harlowja_ later and ask his opinion as well. | 16:28 |
| yottatsa | bknudson providing configuration entry point seems acceptable for docker | 16:28 |
| dims | yottatsa thanks for walking us through | 16:28 |
| bknudson | can you make it handle the replacement vars in configs like ${compute_port}s | 16:29 |
| bknudson | actually, would probably be better if it didn't handle replacements. | 16:29 |
| bknudson | I'm always looking for a reason to get rid of that "feature" | 16:29 |
| dims | :) Anyone else have anything to discuss? | 16:29 |
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| dims | going once | 16:30 |
| dims | going twice | 16:30 |
| dims | thanks everyone. talk to you all next week | 16:30 |
| yottatsa | bknudson speaking about replacements, if you layer --config-file and --config-db, you may actually handle a replacement out-of-the-box. I should verify this, th8 | 16:30 |
| * dims hangs on | 16:30 | |
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| bknudson | chef, ansible, and other tools already make it easy to set up your config without using replacement | 16:31 |
| bknudson | so I think we should get rid of it. | 16:31 |
| bknudson | there are other reasons to get rid of it that I won't go into | 16:32 |
| dims | bknudson : let's do a spec (should be easy!), it's more for gathering +2's from everyone | 16:32 |
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| yottatsa | #link actually, there is a spec in bp https://review.openstack.org/#/c/243114/ | 16:33 |
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| dims | yottatsa that was for dropping the replacement syntax | 16:34 |
| yottatsa | dims got it | 16:34 |
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| dims | k thanks everyone | 16:34 |
| dims | #endmeeting | 16:34 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 16:34 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Mon Nov 9 16:34:42 2015 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 16:34 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/oslo/2015/oslo.2015-11-09-16.00.html | 16:34 |
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| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/oslo/2015/oslo.2015-11-09-16.00.txt | 16:34 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/oslo/2015/oslo.2015-11-09-16.00.log.html | 16:34 |
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| jungleboyj | Thanks! | 16:35 |
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| zzzeek | timezones, bah | 17:07 |
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| harlowja_ | ya, stupid timezones and DST! | 18:28 |
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| lifeless | dims: o/ | 18:39 |
| harlowja_ | \o | 18:41 |
| harlowja_ | to late, ha | 18:41 |
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| catherineD | #startmeeting refstack | 19:01 |
| openstack | Meeting started Mon Nov 9 19:01:29 2015 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is catherineD. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 19:01 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 19:01 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: refstack)" | 19:01 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'refstack' | 19:01 |
| catherineD | roll call | 19:01 |
| pvaneck | o/ | 19:01 |
| catherineD | hello pvaneck: let's just wait for a few minutes ... | 19:03 |
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| pvaneck | sure | 19:03 |
| sslypushenko_ | Hi, folks! | 19:03 |
| pvaneck | hello! | 19:03 |
| catherineD | #link meeting agenda and notes, please feel free to add items https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/refstack-meeting-15-11-09 | 19:03 |
| catherineD | sslypushenko_: hello ... how are you? | 19:04 |
| sslypushenko_ | Fine! Thx) How are you? | 19:04 |
| catherineD | very good ... just come back from one week vacation ... I am sorry that the session during the summit did not work well with you ... | 19:05 |
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| sslypushenko_ | Every thing is ok) | 19:06 |
| catherineD | by now we know that remote meeting had not been working for us ... | 19:06 |
| sslypushenko_ | There were a lot of attendies | 19:06 |
| catherineD | yes ... the important thing is we need contributor ... | 19:07 |
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| sslypushenko_ | I think 3 guys from RackSpace it is more than enough | 19:08 |
| catherineD | Alexandre Levine from EMC had prototyped on central and EC2 testing | 19:08 |
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| catherineD | please check this out http://52.8.233.67:8000/#/ | 19:08 |
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| catherineD | so we try to see how to bring his code into RefStack .. | 19:09 |
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| catherineD | Let's start with our agenda today ... do you get the agenda link ? | 19:10 |
| sslypushenko_ | looks cool | 19:10 |
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| pvaneck | yes go ahead | 19:10 |
| sslypushenko_ | Yeap, I have the link | 19:10 |
| catherineD | #topic Review Tokyo summit action items priority | 19:10 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Review Tokyo summit action items priority (Meeting topic: refstack)" | 19:10 | |
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| catherineD | #link Tokyo summit discussion https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/refstack-tokyo-summit | 19:10 |
| catherineD | please scroll to the bottom in the session "RefStack Mitaka cycle priority" | 19:11 |
| catherineD | the first item was from Chris | 19:12 |
| catherineD | the second item is for Alex to bring in EC2 guideline ... but may also be applicable to others .. | 19:13 |
| catherineD | of the 5 items ,.. item #3 will be the one that need a lot of work | 19:13 |
| pvaneck | so for the first, do we just generate an arbitrary cpid? | 19:13 |
| catherineD | The thinking is let the user enter cpid | 19:14 |
| sslypushenko_ | yeah) Finally) | 19:14 |
| catherineD | but that is the point we should discuss | 19:14 |
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| catherineD | I do not think that our current data model require that this field has to be unique | 19:16 |
| sslypushenko_ | cpid should not be uniqu | 19:16 |
| catherineD | do we agree that the field should be input from user? | 19:17 |
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| sslypushenko_ | yes from point of view | 19:18 |
| catherineD | actually that item should belong to refstack-client ... let me move it | 19:18 |
| davidlenwell | I agree with that | 19:18 |
| catherineD | davidlenwell: hello | 19:19 |
| davidlenwell | hi everyone! | 19:19 |
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| sslypushenko_ | Hi! | 19:19 |
| davidlenwell | sorry im late.. had to get to a coffee shop | 19:19 |
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| catherineD | sslypushenko_: we (davidlenwell: pvaneck: and myself) spent almost a whole day discussing data model at the summit ... very productive f-2-f meeting | 19:21 |
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| sslypushenko_ | That is good | 19:22 |
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| davidlenwell | thanks catherineD.. I thought it was very productive as well.. | 19:22 |
| davidlenwell | I'm fighting to spend more time with ya'll | 19:22 |
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| catherineD | sslypushenko_: hope we will have a chance to work f-2-f with you some day ... | 19:22 |
| catherineD | davidlenwell: that is great ... | 19:22 |
| sslypushenko_ | Next summit will be in USA, it is much easy than Japan) | 19:23 |
| dliu | good evening, sorry I'm late | 19:23 |
| catherineD | do you have any input on the priority listed in https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/refstack-tokyo-summit (see the bottom session "RefStack Mitaka cycle priority ") | 19:23 |
| catherineD | dliu: Hi .... what time for you now? | 19:24 |
| dliu | hi, Catherine | 19:24 |
| sslypushenko_ | Everything looks good to me | 19:24 |
| dliu | It's 3:20~ am | 19:24 |
| catherineD | dliu: wow I am so sorry ... | 19:24 |
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| dliu | It's ok | 19:25 |
| dliu | I am glad to join this meeting | 19:25 |
| davidlenwell | is someone here from randy's group? alex? | 19:25 |
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| sslypushenko_ | catherineD It is really depends on how much developers will be evolved in process | 19:25 |
| davidlenwell | don't know his irc name | 19:25 |
| catherineD | davidlenwell: no one from randy's group here ... | 19:26 |
| davidlenwell | We should lobby with them offline to start attending | 19:26 |
| catherineD | sslypushenko_: that is my concern int the next topic ... | 19:26 |
| catherineD | davidlenwell: yep | 19:26 |
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| catherineD | if everyone is ok with the priority ... we can go on to the next topic | 19:27 |
| pvaneck | sure | 19:27 |
| catherineD | #topic RefStack contributor situation | 19:27 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "RefStack contributor situation (Meeting topic: refstack)" | 19:27 | |
| dliu | yes | 19:27 |
| catherineD | So we need contributors from other organizations ... right now high percentage of code contribution is from IBM ... | 19:28 |
| catherineD | that really concern me... | 19:29 |
| catherineD | I will contact Alex (in Randy's group at EMC) ... | 19:29 |
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| davidlenwell | it seemed like we had plenty of non-ibm folks at the design session | 19:30 |
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| pvaneck | yea, give it some time | 19:31 |
| catherineD | we need code contribution ... I know it is just beginning but I definitely do not want this trend to go on http://stackalytics.com/?release=mitaka&metric=commits&project_type=openstack&module=refstack-group | 19:31 |
| davidlenwell | I'll try to get some stuff landed in my off time this cycle.. | 19:32 |
| davidlenwell | it will start with better attendance at this meeting | 19:33 |
| davidlenwell | then you can assign actions to folks | 19:33 |
| davidlenwell | catherineD: if you want to have a seperate recruiting stratigy meeting I can make time to help with that | 19:33 |
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| catherineD | davidlenwell: thx.. yes let's work on recruiting startegy .... ideally we need to have at least 4 organizations .... | 19:34 |
| sslypushenko_ | While RefStack is focusing on Foundation related thing we have nothing to do here( | 19:34 |
| davidlenwell | what is the status of working with rally? | 19:35 |
| davidlenwell | does our api need any changes to accept data from rally? | 19:35 |
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| catherineD | davidlenwell: per defcore all tests must be tempest or in-tree ... | 19:35 |
| sslypushenko_ | O_o why do we need rally here? | 19:36 |
| davidlenwell | the idea was that rally can feed us data | 19:36 |
| davidlenwell | because its running tempest | 19:36 |
| davidlenwell | and has result sets | 19:36 |
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| davidlenwell | why shouldn't it feed our api data | 19:36 |
| catherineD | but someone told me at the conference that rally does send data to RefStack | 19:36 |
| davidlenwell | no.. | 19:37 |
| davidlenwell | it "can" | 19:37 |
| catherineD | we need to check that out | 19:37 |
| davidlenwell | nobody has patched it to do so yet | 19:37 |
| sslypushenko_ | As far as I know rally can not run tempest on environment without magic) | 19:37 |
| davidlenwell | boris wants to do this | 19:37 |
| davidlenwell | boris42 you here? | 19:37 |
| davidlenwell | boris-42 | 19:37 |
| davidlenwell | he isn't in the channel .. but I pinged him | 19:38 |
| sslypushenko_ | now 10:37 PM at his place | 19:38 |
| davidlenwell | he lives in us now | 19:38 |
| davidlenwell | its 11:38 am .. | 19:38 |
| sslypushenko_ | heh) | 19:38 |
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| davidlenwell | but the marantis office has lots of meeitngs on monday from what I hear.. so he might be busy | 19:39 |
| davidlenwell | so lets move on and come back to that.. sorry for derailing | 19:39 |
| catherineD | ok there is not reason why anyone running tempest would not be able to send data to refstack with our API | 19:39 |
| davidlenwell | sure ... but having an option in rally to just do so at the end of its run .. could give us lots of data from folks who don't want to run the refstack client | 19:40 |
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| catherineD | davidlenwell: I will ping you on strategy to recruite developers | 19:40 |
| boris-42 | Hi all | 19:40 |
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| davidlenwell | hey boris-42 | 19:40 |
| sslypushenko_ | Hi! | 19:40 |
| davidlenwell | thanks for popping in | 19:40 |
| boris-42 | how things are going?) | 19:40 |
| davidlenwell | we were just discussing the desire to have rally submit data to the refstack api optionally | 19:41 |
| davidlenwell | thought you might have thoughts | 19:41 |
| davidlenwell | defcore has asked the community to submit data to refstack.. as much as possible.. to help guide what ends up in defcore | 19:42 |
| hogepodge | I will only accept test results in refstack.openstack.org now. | 19:42 |
| davidlenwell | with that in mind .. I think it would be low hanging fruit to add a "submit data to refstack" option to rally | 19:42 |
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| sslypushenko_ | Hi! hogepodge | 19:43 |
| hogepodge | Previously other methods were ok, but the foundation needs a single repository of results. | 19:43 |
| davidlenwell | sure hogepodge.. but for raw data sake.. a tempest run from rally and a tempest run from the refstack client shouldn't be any different | 19:43 |
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| hogepodge | davidlenwell: I have no opinion as to how it gets there, as long as the results are honest. | 19:43 |
| davidlenwell | all we are discussing is possibly letting rally upload its results right into refstack.openstack.org and bypass the need for refstack-client | 19:43 |
| davidlenwell | so that we can get data optionally from folks already set up to run rally | 19:44 |
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| hogepodge | I don't want to undermine the efforts of the refstack team. Collaboration is the best option. | 19:45 |
| davidlenwell | sue.. not suggesting to undermine them at all.. just encourage data from as many sources as available | 19:45 |
| davidlenwell | the client is still a needed thing.. | 19:45 |
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| davidlenwell | but there is this other project that runs tempest and has data.. it makes sense to make it easy to collect as much data as possible | 19:46 |
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| sslypushenko_ | Can be rally data considered as meaningful? | 19:46 |
| davidlenwell | it should still have raw subunit from its last tempest run | 19:47 |
| catherineD | The top priority for refstack-client in Mitaka cycle is "Refstack to provide option with subunit data format as input data" | 19:47 |
| davidlenwell | catherineD: agreed | 19:47 |
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| davidlenwell | but I would suggest that the api needs to be able to take raw sub unit as well | 19:47 |
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| pvaneck | how large can subunit files get with a full tempest run? | 19:48 |
| catherineD | davidlenwell: if we provide an API .. that means that the subunit data will be shipped to the server side? | 19:48 |
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| davidlenwell | optionally yes | 19:49 |
| davidlenwell | I'm suggesting that we make the api friendly to data in lots of formats.. to make it simpler for folks to submit data | 19:49 |
| boris-42 | uh sorry | 19:49 |
| catherineD | That means that RefStack server may be exposed to user confidential data ... | 19:49 |
| hogepodge | I'm not sure. It would be nice to have subunit2sql used, but data sanitization is a concern. I'm not sure what the status of it is (mtreinish would know). | 19:49 |
| boris-42 | so the thing here is next | 19:50 |
| catherineD | DefCore guideline is RefStack only expose to pass data not all data ... | 19:50 |
| boris-42 | rally can manage tempest fully and collect /store results | 19:50 |
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| boris-42 | and now we are working on "export" functionallity | 19:50 |
| boris-42 | so basically users will write something like | 19:50 |
| boris-42 | "rally verify export refstack://<connection_string>" | 19:50 |
| boris-42 | we are working on this spec currently: https://github.com/openstack/rally/blob/master/doc/specs/in-progress/task_and_verification_export.rst | 19:51 |
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| davidlenwell | boris-42: would the export function have something that scrubs sensitive information? | 19:51 |
| mtreinish | hogepodge: data sanitization? | 19:51 |
| hogepodge | mtreinish: sensitive information in the subunit files that vendor may not want to send to a public server | 19:52 |
| boris-42 | davidlenwell: it doesn't contains anything sensitive | 19:52 |
| boris-42 | davidlenwell: as far as I know | 19:52 |
| boris-42 | davidlenwell: or you mean exceptions ? | 19:52 |
| boris-42 | davidlenwell: logs of exceptions* | 19:52 |
| davidlenwell | boris-42: sometimes failures contain debug output that can have sensitive info | 19:52 |
| davidlenwell | yes | 19:52 |
| mtreinish | hogepodge: you just don't store the attachments, by default subunit2sql just drops them on the floor | 19:52 |
| boris-42 | davidlenwell: so we can add argument maybe | 19:52 |
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| boris-42 | davidlenwell: to rally verify that won't send those logs at all | 19:52 |
| mtreinish | hogepodge: that's how it's used by infra for example (not from sec concerns but because it takes too much space and is stored elsewhere) | 19:53 |
| davidlenwell | boris-42: that sounds like its worth doing for the export feature in general | 19:53 |
| boris-42 | davidlenwell: doesn't seem like a hard task | 19:53 |
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| davidlenwell | yeah .. seems simple to me.. | 19:53 |
| davidlenwell | catherineD: I'd suggest that the api method that recieves subunit do the same thing that subunit2sql does and just drop that data .. doesn't need to store it or process it at all.. | 19:54 |
| mtreinish | catherineD: for only storing successes I don't think that's the right approach, but you can just use subunit-filter to do that | 19:54 |
| mtreinish | catherineD: https://github.com/testing-cabal/subunit/blob/master/filters/subunit-filter | 19:54 |
| catherineD | hogepodge: mtreinish: DefCore guideline is RefStack should only be exposed to pass data ... DefCore needs to give new guildeline that we can accept the data but not to store it ... | 19:55 |
| boris-42 | davidlenwell: so I will ping you guys when we finish export functionallity | 19:55 |
| davidlenwell | thanks boris-42 | 19:55 |
| boris-42 | davidlenwell: so we will be able to do some kind of demo | 19:55 |
| catherineD | with that then using subunit2sql is possible | 19:55 |
| hogepodge | catherineD: ok, we can make that an agenda item for Wednesday | 19:55 |
| catherineD | hogepodge: yup .. | 19:55 |
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| davidlenwell | I like the idea of using subunit2sql.. because it lets us focus energy on the website ui rather than maintaining redunand subunit tools | 19:56 |
| sslypushenko_ | +1 | 19:56 |
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| catherineD | as hogepodge: said we can make that as an agenda item at DefCore meeting that RefStack server can accept subunit data but won't store them . | 19:58 |
| pvaneck | as a side note while time is dwindling down: https://review.openstack.org/#/c/242919/ this patch fixes https://bugs.launchpad.net/refstack/+bug/1514290 | 19:58 |
| openstack | Launchpad bug 1514290 in refstack "Occasional Internal Server error when trying to log in" [High,Confirmed] - Assigned to Paul Van Eck (pvaneck-z) | 19:58 |
| pvaneck | i would frequently hit this when trying to login to the refstack site | 19:58 |
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| catherineD | pvaneck: thx ... that is a high priority bug | 19:59 |
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| catherineD | need to end the meeting now .... | 19:59 |
| catherineD | thank you all | 19:59 |
| catherineD | #endmeeting | 19:59 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 19:59 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Mon Nov 9 19:59:48 2015 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 19:59 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/refstack/2015/refstack.2015-11-09-19.01.html | 19:59 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/refstack/2015/refstack.2015-11-09-19.01.txt | 19:59 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/refstack/2015/refstack.2015-11-09-19.01.log.html | 19:59 |
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| dliu | thanks | 20:00 |
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| redrobot | #startmeeting barbican | 20:00 |
| openstack | Meeting started Mon Nov 9 20:00:42 2015 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is redrobot. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 20:00 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 20:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: barbican)" | 20:00 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'barbican' | 20:00 |
| redrobot | #topic Roll Call | 20:01 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Roll Call (Meeting topic: barbican)" | 20:01 | |
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| woodster_ | o/ | 20:01 |
| jkf | o/ | 20:01 |
| edtubill | o/ | 20:01 |
| diazjf | o/ | 20:01 |
| arunkant | o/ | 20:01 |
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| rellerreller | o/ | 20:01 |
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| kfarr | o/ | 20:01 |
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| jhfeng | o/ | 20:01 |
| silos | \o/ | 20:01 |
| redrobot | woot! | 20:02 |
| redrobot | lots of barbicaneers here today | 20:02 |
| redrobot | as usual the meeting agenda can be found here: | 20:02 |
| redrobot | #link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings/Barbican | 20:02 |
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| redrobot | #topic Tokyo Summit Recap | 20:03 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Tokyo Summit Recap (Meeting topic: barbican)" | 20:03 | |
| redrobot | #link https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/barbican-m-design-sessions | 20:03 |
| redrobot | #link https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/mitaka-barbican-roadmap | 20:03 |
| redrobot | #link https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/mitaka-barbican-federation | 20:03 |
| redrobot | I think the hottest topic at the Summit was definitely Federation | 20:04 |
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| redrobot | There was a lot of good discussion | 20:04 |
| alee_ | o/ | 20:04 |
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| redrobot | the other big topic was the splitting of CA features into a separate project | 20:06 |
| redrobot | but given that nobody is actually willing to do the work, I'm not going to spend any more time talking about it | 20:06 |
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| rellerreller | :( | 20:06 |
| redrobot | we saw an uptick on Barbican interest | 20:07 |
| redrobot | also we had a chance to talk to some folks in the Designate team about a new use case for Barbican | 20:08 |
| redrobot | and we found out that there's Barbican deployments in the wild :-O | 20:08 |
| dave-mccowan | o/ | 20:09 |
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| redrobot | We also talked about Marshall a bit | 20:11 |
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| redrobot | and our recommendation to the Marshall contributors is to continue to develop outside of the Barbican or Security projects | 20:11 |
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| redrobot | anything else I missed that would be worth mentioning? | 20:12 |
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| dave-mccowan | The Marshall team welcomes all contributors, if anyone wants to be a "founder". ping me and I can get you in touch. :-) | 20:12 |
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| redrobot | ok, moving on | 20:13 |
| rellerreller | redrobot bring your own key was a hot potato | 20:13 |
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| redrobot | rellerreller yeah, I saw the IBM folks added an agenda item to talk about it in a bit | 20:13 |
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| redrobot | #topic Substitute PTL | 20:14 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Substitute PTL (Meeting topic: barbican)" | 20:14 | |
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| woodster_ | any summary about Anchor and other CMS projects vs barbican CMS? | 20:14 |
| redrobot | I'm going to be taking off for about 3 weeks starting Wednesday next week | 20:15 |
| redrobot | and I'm looking for someone to chair the Nov 23 and Nov 30 meetings | 20:15 |
| redrobot | does anyone want to volunteer? | 20:15 |
| redrobot | woodster_ the Security folks agreed it would be good to write up the differences between Anchor, Killick and Barbican, but AFAIK nobody signed up to do it. | 20:16 |
| rellerreller | redrobot I don't mind. | 20:16 |
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| rellerreller | Maybe I should ask what that entails first. | 20:16 |
| redrobot | rellerreller basically running this meeting. :) | 20:17 |
| rellerreller | That seems easy enough. | 20:17 |
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| redrobot | rellerreller possibly coordinate the release of MItaka-1 | 20:17 |
| * redrobot checks Mitaka release schedule | 20:18 | |
| rellerreller | Oh, I don't know much about releasing the software. | 20:18 |
| redrobot | Yeah, Mitaka-1 milestone is due on Dec 1-3 | 20:18 |
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| rellerreller | I don't think I'm a good person for that. I don't know anything about that stuff. I can run a meeting easy enough. | 20:19 |
| kfarr | redrobot, is it as easy as putting in the merge request for the release team to do it? | 20:19 |
| redrobot | kfarr that's a good question... | 20:19 |
| redrobot | Historically the Release Manager(s) hang out in #openstack-release | 20:20 |
| redrobot | and ping the PTL (or release liaison) to ask if the project is ready for release | 20:20 |
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| redrobot | kfarr I'll ask if a merge request would be a good way to do a milestone release and get back to you | 20:21 |
| kfarr | redrobot ok! | 20:21 |
| redrobot | #action redrobot to ask Release Managers if mitaka-1 will be a CR release | 20:21 |
| redrobot | #info rellerreller will be meeting chair on Nov 23 and Nov 30 | 20:21 |
| redrobot | kfarr does that mean you could possibly be the release liaison for mitaka-1 ? :D | 20:22 |
| kfarr | redrobot, maybe! I want all the details before I commit | 20:23 |
| rellerreller | She did know the right questions to ask. | 20:23 |
| redrobot | kfarr hehe, fair enough, I'll have the details for next week's meeting for sure. | 20:23 |
| redrobot | ok, moving on | 20:23 |
| redrobot | #topic Federation Use Cases | 20:23 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Federation Use Cases (Meeting topic: barbican)" | 20:24 | |
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| redrobot | one of the take-aways of the Federation discussions was that we needed more concrete use cases, and both IBM and Rackspace were going to work on getting Use Cases documented | 20:24 |
| redrobot | silos diazjf I'm guessing you guys have made some progress on that? | 20:24 |
| diazjf | redrobot correct, we created an etherpad as seen here: https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/barbican-federation-use-cases | 20:25 |
| edtubill | There are annotations for compliance on the page if anyone wants to check it out. | 20:26 |
| redrobot | diazjf awesome, I'll forward this to Joe | 20:26 |
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| redrobot | A high level summary of the Federation discussions: | 20:27 |
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| redrobot | We're calling "Federation" the feature of Bring Your Own Key (BYOK) to OpenStack clouds | 20:28 |
| redrobot | There's two models we could use | 20:28 |
| redrobot | Push Model: Basically a user would send the required key along with the request for an operation that requires the key. | 20:28 |
| rellerreller | Is federation really the same thing as bring your own key? | 20:28 |
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| redrobot | Pull Model: A user would grant access to their device to the cloud. The cloud service that needs a key would reach into the users' device to get the key when needed. | 20:30 |
| redrobot | there's advantages and disadvantages to both. | 20:30 |
| edtubill | I think BYOK would some how fall under BYOD if you can associate a key on your private device to a resource on the public cloud. | 20:30 |
| redrobot | rellerreller arguably they could be different | 20:30 |
| redrobot | rellerreller Rackspace is interested in BYOK, and we think Federation may be a way to provide it | 20:30 |
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| rellerreller | ok. Just raising the question. Don't need an answer now. I'm still trying to organize things in my head. | 20:31 |
| redrobot | the interesting thing about BYOK is that both Azure and AWS claim to have it, yet the two are vastly different | 20:31 |
| alee_ | redrobot, I'd like to see these models fleshed out in a little more detail -- with an example say of retrieving a key for volume encryption | 20:32 |
| rellerreller | +1 | 20:32 |
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| redrobot | edtubill that's one way of thinking about BYOK... but if you look at the AWS model, they don't really care whether the user has a device or not... they only care that the user can provide the key when needed. | 20:32 |
| alee_ | redrobot, right now - all the terms are pretty fuzzy | 20:32 |
| alee_ | and for the push case, for instance, its not clear to me how barbican need be involved at all .. | 20:33 |
| rellerreller | alee_ I agree. I think walking through that use case in particular may prove to eliminate some of the complexities that are being proposed. | 20:33 |
| silos | Box also an interesting BYOK model: http://www.infoworld.com/article/2882030/encryption/box-you-can-bring-your-own-keys-to-encrypt-in-our-cloud.html | 20:33 |
| woodster_ | I recall the push case was probably a no go, as it would require a lot of changes to existing services to support it | 20:34 |
| diazjf | rellerreller, redrobot, we can create more detailed use-cases with Models and review them during the next meeting | 20:34 |
| woodster_ | I agree a detailed set of use case sequences would be helfpule | 20:34 |
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| woodster_ | ...or even helpful | 20:34 |
| diazjf | These were just meant to be high-level | 20:34 |
| woodster_ | diazjf: sounds good | 20:35 |
| rellerreller | woodster_ the push model still had significant hurdles. | 20:35 |
| redrobot | alee_ agreed. someone did mention that push model would not necessarily need Barbican at all | 20:35 |
| rellerreller | woodster_ the biggest one was how to get the key from the service that is invoked with the key to the actual service that does the work. | 20:35 |
| rellerreller | redrobot I don't think push or pull model would need to involve Barbican for byok. | 20:36 |
| rellerreller | If the key location is stored in metadata then can use Barbican, KMIP, etc. | 20:36 |
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| redrobot | Our reasoning for wanting Barbican in the mix, is that BYOK In other clouds is putting the burden of key management on the user | 20:37 |
| woodster_ | rellerreller: I think the linked-secret was required in Barbican? | 20:37 |
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| redrobot | and Barbican, being a key management service, would help users with that burden | 20:37 |
| rellerreller | woodster_ it was proposed as a solution, but we never walked through the sequence of events to prove that it was needed. | 20:38 |
| redrobot | woodster_ that was just one possible solution... I'm not convinced linked-type is the only way to achieve BYOK | 20:38 |
| rellerreller | Meaning I don't know that it is needed. I think people were solving a problem that did not exist, but I could be wrong. | 20:38 |
| alee_ | guys, while this is all interesting -- we need to see some sequence diagrams to define the use cases and the actual problems -- it feels like we're going around and around in conversation .. | 20:40 |
| redrobot | alee_ :) | 20:40 |
| * woodster_ maybe we need a special content type to indicate a key is federated? | 20:40 | |
| woodster_ | that was for alee_ :) | 20:41 |
| diazjf | woodster_ that was the idea in the proposed links idea. | 20:41 |
| * alee_ aiming a missile Texas -way .. | 20:41 | |
| redrobot | hehe | 20:41 |
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| redrobot | I'll review the use cases that diazjf and edtubill documented | 20:41 |
| redrobot | and pass them along to Joe Savak | 20:42 |
| redrobot | #action redrobot to review use cases documented by diazjf and edtubill | 20:42 |
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| redrobot | #action diazjf to document lower-level sequence diagrams | 20:43 |
| diazjf | woodster_ rellerreller, see https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/mitaka-barbican-federation at the end. We discussed at the summit that they would effect Castellan | 20:43 |
| diazjf | redrobot, you got it! | 20:43 |
| rellerreller | How many of these use cases are actual (meaning customers are asking for this) vs. they sound like they could be useful? | 20:43 |
| rellerreller | For instance use case 3 of customer scaling? | 20:44 |
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| edtubill | #1 is the main use case that we want to meet and the other are just for consideration | 20:44 |
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| rellerreller | edtubill thanks | 20:46 |
| redrobot | ok, moving on | 20:47 |
| redrobot | #topic Mid-Cycle | 20:48 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Mid-Cycle (Meeting topic: barbican)" | 20:48 | |
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| redrobot | We started the mid-cycle conversation at the end of the Summit | 20:48 |
| redrobot | as usual, we would like to have the Security and Barbican Mid-cycles in the same place, so that people who are interested in both can plan travel to just one place | 20:48 |
| redrobot | but it's always challenging to coordinate | 20:49 |
| redrobot | #info the proposed date for the mid-cycle is January 11-15 | 20:50 |
| redrobot | There's a few options for location | 20:50 |
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| redrobot | 1. Rackspace Castle in San Antonio, TX | 20:51 |
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| redrobot | 2. APL in Laurel, MD | 20:51 |
| redrobot | 3. HP campus in Seattle, WA | 20:51 |
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| alee_ | redrobot, what happened to RDU? Did you guys decide against that after I left? | 20:53 |
| redrobot | I think we have the most Barbican contributors in the San Antonio/Austin area, so my preference would be for #1 | 20:53 |
| diazjf | redrobot, I'll see if we can get approval for IBM(Austin) to host it | 20:53 |
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| redrobot | diazjf we had the last mid-cycle in Austin, and since the next summit is in Austin, I was thinking SA would be better.... but I'm not totally opposed to it | 20:54 |
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| diazjf | diazjf, agreed! I'd like to see the RackSpace Headquarters | 20:55 |
| diazjf | redrobot ^ | 20:55 |
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| redrobot | alee_ I think the Security folks were leaning towards APL or Seattle... I'll float RDU by them though | 20:55 |
| alee_ | redrobot, just curious thats all .. I remember Raleght being in the mix when I left for the airport | 20:56 |
| redrobot | maybe we should set up a Surveymonkey with all locations | 20:56 |
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| alee_ | redrobot, if it isn't , I wont bother looking into permissions to host etc. | 20:57 |
| rellerreller | redrobot if APL is chosen then I would need to know soon, so I can try and reserve space. | 20:57 |
| redrobot | Mountain View & San Jose were also thrown out there | 20:57 |
| rellerreller | Sounds like alee_ has same concerns as me. When were you and Rob planning to make a decision? | 20:57 |
| dave-mccowan | oh yea... last word in Tokyo was to try to sync with Rob Clark and the Security Group. He was going to look in to space at HP Seattle for us. | 20:58 |
| rellerreller | redrobot ^ is for you. | 20:58 |
| redrobot | rellerreller I'm hoping soon... I sent him an email today and am waiting on a reploy | 20:58 |
| redrobot | reply even | 20:58 |
| dave-mccowan | security group's weekly meeting is on Thursdays, so that's probably the soonest we can get feedback from security project team. | 20:59 |
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| redrobot | also historically, we've never actually been able to coordinate the joint mid-cycle... :( | 21:00 |
| redrobot | aaaand we're way over on time | 21:01 |
| redrobot | thanks everyone for coming! | 21:01 |
| redrobot | should have more info on mid-cycle next week | 21:01 |
| redrobot | #endmeeting | 21:01 |
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| openstack | Meeting ended Mon Nov 9 21:01:46 2015 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 21:01 |
| elmiko | doh... damned dst | 21:01 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/barbican/2015/barbican.2015-11-09-20.00.html | 21:01 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/barbican/2015/barbican.2015-11-09-20.00.txt | 21:01 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/barbican/2015/barbican.2015-11-09-20.00.log.html | 21:01 |
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