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| n0ano | #startmeeting nova-scheduler | 14:00 |
|---|---|---|
| openstack | Meeting started Mon Aug 24 14:00:28 2015 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is n0ano. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 14:00 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 14:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: nova-scheduler)" | 14:00 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'nova_scheduler' | 14:00 |
| edleafe | o/ | 14:00 |
| n0ano | anyone here to talk about the scheduler? | 14:00 |
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| * johnthetubaguy lurks | 14:02 | |
| n0ano | bauzas, was on #nova, I don't see jay though | 14:02 |
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| bauzas | \o | 14:03 |
| * bauzas is still a bit jetlagged | 14:03 | |
| n0ano | lxsli, is the only other regular missing | 14:03 |
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| n0ano | let's get started anyway | 14:03 |
| n0ano | #topic liberty patches | 14:04 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "liberty patches (Meeting topic: nova-scheduler)" | 14:04 | |
| bauzas | sooo | 14:04 |
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| n0ano | bauzas, I see you got jenkins happy with your API patch, are you all done now :-) | 14:04 |
| bauzas | API patch ? :) | 14:04 |
| bauzas | n0ano: you mean https://review.openstack.org/145528 ? | 14:04 |
| n0ano | https://review.openstack.org/199205 | 14:05 |
| bauzas | n0ano: ah that | 14:05 |
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| bauzas | n0ano: well, the whole chain is done - some stuff still needs to be done on the conductor side, but all the interfaces should ideally be merged by Lib | 14:06 |
| n0ano | that's very good, now all we need is to review everything | 14:07 |
| bauzas | n0ano: I mean that some helpers can go to hell, but that can be done in Mitaka, since all the APIs would be now using a Spec object | 14:07 |
| bauzas | n0ano: yeah, that's the plan | 14:07 |
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| bauzas | the first one was good enough for alaski and dansmith :) | 14:07 |
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| n0ano | excellent | 14:07 |
| bauzas | I also have a 2nd series https://review.openstack.org/#/q/status:open+project:openstack/nova+branch:master+topic:bp/allocation-ratio-to-resource-tracker,n,z | 14:08 |
| bauzas | which is nearly done, just needing the RT update to DB | 14:08 |
| bauzas | and the Scheduler addition | 14:08 |
| n0ano | is that on the priorities page, I don't see it | 14:08 |
| bauzas | n0ano: nope, not yet | 14:08 |
| bauzas | oh | 14:08 |
| bauzas | sec | 14:08 |
| bauzas | n0ano: it is | 14:09 |
| bauzas | https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/liberty-nova-priorities-tracking L57 | 14:09 |
| n0ano | ah, I see it now, so is that your top priority patch series now? | 14:10 |
| bauzas | my top prio is the Spec objectification | 14:10 |
| bauzas | that's my 2nd top prio :) | 14:10 |
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| bauzas | I mean, it's not really useful for cleaning the APIs, but that's also good enough for the scheduler | 14:10 |
| bauzas | so, my status here, ready for the review limbo dance of rebasing | 14:11 |
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| bauzas | the priority going to the Spec stuff, but I'd be happy to see https://review.openstack.org/#/q/status:open+project:openstack/nova+branch:master+topic:bp/allocation-ratio-to-resource-tracker,n,z merged too | 14:11 |
| n0ano | that's actually very cool, frustrating for you but at least the implementation is done | 14:11 |
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| bauzas | n0ano: well, I'm not frustrated, I have very good feedback | 14:12 |
| bauzas | n0ano: it just takes time to agree on some particular bits, in particular when you review a NovaObject because of the fields | 14:12 |
| n0ano | I would imagine the rebase feedback loop could get tiresome but, it you're happy with that, great :-) | 14:12 |
| bauzas | n0ano: well, it's a matter of getting things done | 14:13 |
| bauzas | n0ano: changing a field or removing it is just painful when the code is merged | 14:13 |
| bauzas | n0ano: because you can't just pretend it never existed | 14:13 |
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| n0ano | indeed | 14:13 |
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| bauzas | so we had some good talks about using a Flavor object or not | 14:14 |
| bauzas | that was necessary | 14:14 |
| bauzas | (I mean the convo was necessary) | 14:14 |
| n0ano | who's we and did you reach a conclusion? | 14:14 |
| bauzas | and the consensus was to leave the Flavor object because of silly filters using it, and then work later on changing those filters to not keep that Flavor object which is painful | 14:14 |
| bauzas | who: alaski, dansmith and I | 14:15 |
| edleafe | n0ano: we want to eventually limit flavors to the API layer only | 14:15 |
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| bauzas | n0ano: I was btw. a bit surprised to see a spec of you, made in June :p | 14:15 |
| n0ano | I wanted to have a session at Mitaka about that but it looks like maybe we've resolved the issue already | 14:15 |
| n0ano | bauzas, it got delayed and i was intending to retry it for Mitaka | 14:16 |
| alaski | I don't want a flavor on the spec object, but for now it's mostly an implementation detail and the individual components are exposed on the object as well | 14:16 |
| bauzas | so, the most boring stuff was https://github.com/openstack/nova/blob/master/nova/scheduler/filters/type_filter.py#L35 | 14:16 |
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| bauzas | or even https://github.com/openstack/nova/blob/master/nova/scheduler/filters/type_filter.py#L58 | 14:17 |
| n0ano | that's an interesting filter, do people really use that? | 14:19 |
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| bauzas | n0ano: well, that's a good question, but since it's shipped, we have to keep at least a compatibility | 14:20 |
| bauzas | I mean a compatible behaviour | 14:20 |
| n0ano | if every there was a filter ripe for deprecation I think that would be it | 14:20 |
| bauzas | yeah, we haven't yet deprecated a filter | 14:20 |
| bauzas | and that would be an interesting talk | 14:21 |
| bauzas | I have 3 of those in my target | 14:21 |
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| bauzas | ComputeFilter, TrustedFilter and those flavor filters | 14:21 |
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| bauzas | but those flavor filters are by far less silly than the 2 above I mentioned | 14:21 |
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| n0ano | potentially an interesting session in Tokyo | 14:22 |
| bauzas | so, we can leave a room for a discussion about any deprecation rules in Mitaka, would be glad to kick that off | 14:22 |
| bauzas | well, maybe not a session, but surely a bullet point in the sched area | 14:22 |
| n0ano | bauzas, +1 | 14:23 |
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| bauzas | moving on ? | 14:23 |
| n0ano | WFM | 14:23 |
| n0ano | anything else on patches? | 14:23 |
| bauzas | I don't have any status for jay | 14:23 |
| bauzas | I know that he had made good stuff with the pci broken things | 14:23 |
| bauzas | I'm mostly reviewing | 14:23 |
| n0ano | sounds good | 14:24 |
| bauzas | https://review.openstack.org/#/q/status:open+project:openstack/nova+branch:master+topic:pci-cleanup,n,z | 14:24 |
| n0ano | in that case | 14:24 |
| n0ano | #topic opens | 14:24 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "opens (Meeting topic: nova-scheduler)" | 14:24 | |
| n0ano | anything new for today? | 14:24 |
| bauzas | which is a prereq for https://review.openstack.org/#/q/status:open+project:openstack/nova+branch:master+topic:resource-objects,n,z | 14:24 |
| bauzas | so, yeah, folks have plenty of changes to reviews | 14:25 |
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| bauzas | so, opens ? | 14:25 |
| n0ano | that's the topic, not hearing anything | 14:25 |
| edleafe | nothing from me | 14:26 |
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| n0ano | OK, then time to do our reviews (unless you're me which means it's time for my next meeting :-( | 14:26 |
| n0ano | tnx everyone, we'll talk next week. | 14:27 |
| bauzas | fair enough | 14:27 |
| n0ano | #endmeeting | 14:27 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 14:27 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Mon Aug 24 14:27:22 2015 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 14:27 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/nova_scheduler/2015/nova_scheduler.2015-08-24-14.00.html | 14:27 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/nova_scheduler/2015/nova_scheduler.2015-08-24-14.00.txt | 14:27 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/nova_scheduler/2015/nova_scheduler.2015-08-24-14.00.log.html | 14:27 |
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| dims__ | #startmeeting oslo | 16:00 |
| dims__ | courtesy ping for GheRivero, amotoki, amrith, bknudson, bnemec, dansmith, dhellmann, dougwig, e0ne, flaper87, garyk, harlowja, haypo, | 16:00 |
| dims__ | courtesy ping for ihrachyshka, jd__, jecarey, johnsom, jungleboyj, kgiusti, kragniz, lifeless, lintan, ozamiatin, redrobot, rpodolyaka, | 16:00 |
| openstack | Meeting started Mon Aug 24 16:00:06 2015 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is dims__. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 16:00 |
| dims__ | courtesy ping for sergmelikyan, sreshetnyak, sileht, sreshetnyak, stevemar, therve, thinrichs, toabctl, viktors, zhiyan, zzzeek | 16:00 |
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| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 16:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: oslo)" | 16:00 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'oslo' | 16:00 |
| dhellmann | o/ | 16:00 |
| kzaitsev_mb | o/ | 16:00 |
| droyal | hi | 16:00 |
| kgiusti | o/ | 16:00 |
| e0ne | hi | 16:00 |
| toabctl | hi | 16:00 |
| dims__ | hello everyone | 16:00 |
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| dims__ | let's get started | 16:01 |
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| jecarey | o/ | 16:01 |
| dims__ | #topic Red flags for/from liaisons | 16:01 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Red flags for/from liaisons (Meeting topic: oslo)" | 16:01 | |
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| dims__ | Any outstanding issues from last week? | 16:01 |
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| dims__ | going once | 16:02 |
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| johnsom | Nothing from Octavia | 16:02 |
| dims__ | thanks johnsom | 16:02 |
| dims__ | switching topic | 16:02 |
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| dims__ | #topic actions from last week | 16:02 |
| dims__ | Organize virtual doc sprint | 16:02 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "actions from last week (Meeting topic: oslo)" | 16:02 | |
| dims__ | #link http://doodle.com/ykskyym3inyvy6mf | 16:02 |
| dims__ | #link https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/oslo-liberty-virtual-doc-sprint | 16:02 |
| dims__ | Anyone interested in helping out with improving out documentation, please let us know what dates are good in doodle and what pain points etc in the therpad | 16:03 |
| dhellmann | dims__: it's going to be a slow sprint if we're the only 2 running... | 16:03 |
| dims__ | dhellmann: :) | 16:03 |
| annegentle | dhellmann: dims__ or reviews will be super fast :) | 16:04 |
| dims__ | dhellmann: probably too late in the release cycle :( | 16:04 |
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| dhellmann | annegentle: good point! | 16:04 |
| dims__ | :) | 16:04 |
| dhellmann | dims__: maybe :-( | 16:04 |
| dims__ | that brings up our next topic | 16:04 |
| dhellmann | documentation might make a good theme for the next cycle | 16:04 |
| dims__ | #topic code freeze and version capping and stable branches | 16:04 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "code freeze and version capping and stable branches (Meeting topic: oslo)" | 16:04 | |
| dims__ | dhellmann: ++ we'll start early | 16:05 |
| dhellmann | I learned at the ops summit that folks don't know about lots of the features in oslo.log, for example | 16:05 |
| dims__ | i see a whole lot of reviews in taskflow, other than that, we look good | 16:05 |
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| dims__ | ouch dhellmann | 16:05 |
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| dhellmann | yeah, we need to figure out how to unblock taskflow | 16:06 |
| dims__ | dhellmann: anything logged in etherpad? | 16:06 |
| dhellmann | dims__: let me find the link to taht | 16:06 |
| dhellmann | #link https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/PAO-ops-logging | 16:07 |
| dims__ | thanks dhellmann | 16:07 |
| dhellmann | there aren't really any calls to action there | 16:07 |
| dhellmann | basically, we need to write a guide for how to configure logging | 16:07 |
| * jungleboyj is kind-of here. | 16:07 | |
| dims__ | dhellmann: right | 16:07 |
| dhellmann | from basics, to json, to i18n, etc. | 16:07 |
| dims__ | dhellmann: guess that's top on the list for the doc sprint then | 16:08 |
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| dhellmann | dims__: I thought another thing that might be useful would be to create a .ini file to reproduce the basic logging configuration, and use that as an example in the docs so folks have a starting place for creating their own | 16:08 |
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| dims__ | dhellmann: sounds good | 16:09 |
| dims__ | dhellmann: do we freeze all oslo libraries as of this week? | 16:10 |
| dims__ | (except may be taskflow) | 16:10 |
| dims__ | and keep documentation open? | 16:10 |
| * dims__ not sure if i am on | 16:11 | |
| dhellmann | dims__: yeah, that's what the schedule says | 16:11 |
| dims__ | anyone here? :) | 16:12 |
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| kgiusti | ? | 16:12 |
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| dhellmann | looks like dims__ got disconnected, I wonder if he was seeing read errors before that | 16:13 |
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| dhellmann | there he is | 16:13 |
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| dhellmann | dims: yeah, the schedule says to freeze this week | 16:13 |
| dhellmann | we could keep taskflow open, but I'm not sure it makes sense to do that unless we're sure we're going to land something | 16:13 |
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| dims__ | ok, let's ping harlowja | 16:14 |
| dims__ | sorry network event | 16:14 |
| dims__ | #topic summit request for sessions | 16:14 |
| dims__ | #link https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/mitaka-oslo-summit-planning | 16:14 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "summit request for sessions (Meeting topic: oslo)" | 16:14 | |
| dims__ | there was an email from ttx about how many sessions we needed | 16:15 |
| dims__ | and what kind | 16:15 |
| dims__ | my inclination is to cut by half what we did in vancouver | 16:15 |
| dims__ | since otherwise we don't get to to interact with anyone else | 16:15 |
| dims__ | any objections? | 16:16 |
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| dhellmann | we'll have less space anyway, so I don't expect that to be an issue | 16:16 |
| bknudson | oslo meetings are good to have at summits | 16:16 |
| bknudson | it's keystone that should have fewer meetings | 16:16 |
| dims__ | bknudson: haha | 16:16 |
| dims__ | #topic Releases for this week | 16:17 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Releases for this week (Meeting topic: oslo)" | 16:17 | |
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| dims__ | i will post a list of things to be released later today | 16:17 |
| dims__ | on the oslo channel | 16:17 |
| dims__ | so far o.vo is a must | 16:17 |
| dims__ | #topic Open discussion | 16:18 |
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| dims__ | any one with a stuck review? or need a stable release? | 16:18 |
| dhellmann | dims__: I would really like to get https://review.openstack.org/#/c/215945/ into the last release this cycle so we can use it for documenting our own stuff | 16:18 |
| dims__ | dhellmann: ack, will get reviews on that | 16:19 |
| dhellmann | requirements freeze is coming up next week, so I'll have to get the minimum version raised after it's released | 16:19 |
| dims__ | ack dhellmann | 16:20 |
| dhellmann | dims__: thanks! | 16:20 |
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| dims__ | has anyone looked at the list of things posted by Tony Breeds? http://markmail.org/message/gq5vztxp3knwgc5h (for stable) | 16:20 |
| dims__ | guess not yet, i've asked him to log bugs and reviews needed | 16:21 |
| dhellmann | I started looking at that earlier, but got a bit lost. I need to take another stab. | 16:21 |
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| dims__ | right, usually mriedem is great at those | 16:22 |
| dims__ | gate stuff | 16:22 |
| dhellmann | it looked like we needed to create a few stable branches so we can fix the requirements caps | 16:22 |
| dhellmann | well, I got lost reading the email, but it was pretty early here :-) | 16:22 |
| dims__ | :) | 16:22 |
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| dims__ | so net, if anyone sees reviews that are definitely needed in liberty, please ping ASAP | 16:23 |
| dims__ | i'll plan on doing more than one batch of releases this week, so we can be ready for requirements freeze | 16:23 |
| dims__ | jecarey: kzaitsev_mb, droyal, kgiusti, e0ne, toabctl - any other issues to talk about? | 16:25 |
| dhellmann | dims__: ++ to multiple releases this week | 16:25 |
| dims__ | cool | 16:25 |
| droyal | no, sorry I've missed the last couple meetings | 16:25 |
| dims__ | no worries droyal | 16:25 |
| dims__ | looks like we are done, please use the rest of the time for reviews :) | 16:26 |
| kzaitsev_mb | none from my side, guess everyone is pretty busy with FF just behind the corner ) | 16:26 |
| dims__ | yep thanks kzaitsev_mb | 16:26 |
| dims__ | thanks everyone | 16:26 |
| dims__ | #endmeeting | 16:26 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 16:26 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Mon Aug 24 16:26:33 2015 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 16:26 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/oslo/2015/oslo.2015-08-24-16.00.html | 16:26 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/oslo/2015/oslo.2015-08-24-16.00.txt | 16:26 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/oslo/2015/oslo.2015-08-24-16.00.log.html | 16:26 |
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| dhellmann | thanks, dims__ | 16:27 |
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| catherineD | #link meeting agenda and notes, please feel free to add items https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/refstack-meeting-15-08-24 | 19:00 |
| catherineD | #startmeeting refstack | 19:00 |
| openstack | Meeting started Mon Aug 24 19:00:57 2015 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is catherineD. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 19:00 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 19:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: refstack)" | 19:01 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'refstack' | 19:01 |
| catherineD | roll call | 19:01 |
| pvaneck | o/ | 19:01 |
| Rockyg | o/ | 19:01 |
| catherineD | sslypushenko: told me that he may not be able to attend today due to traveling ... | 19:02 |
| sslypushenko | o/ | 19:02 |
| catherineD | sslypushenko: Hi | 19:02 |
| catherineD | thought you are traveling? That is great ... | 19:02 |
| catherineD | that you can attend ... | 19:02 |
| sslypushenko | but my connection is very sloooow and unstable) | 19:02 |
| catherineD | sslypushenko: np ... I am really glad that you can attend ... | 19:02 |
| catherineD | #link meeting agenda and notes, please feel free to add items https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/refstack-meeting-15-08-24 | 19:03 |
| catherineD | #topic Relocate RefStack Project | 19:03 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Relocate RefStack Project (Meeting topic: refstack)" | 19:03 | |
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| catherineD | #info To recap RefStack was approved to move to the openstack-infra repository .. but the Foundation staff general consensus is that Refstack should be a big tent project. | 19:04 |
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| catherineD | #link so I submit a patch to move RefStack to OpenStack .. https://review.openstack.org/#/c/213930/ | 19:05 |
| Rockyg | Man. wish they could make up the mind. | 19:05 |
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| catherineD | could you please look at the comment by Thierry Carrez on the link | 19:05 |
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| sslypushenko | I think infra will be a good final place for Refstack | 19:06 |
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| catherineD | Rockyg: +1 | 19:06 |
| hogepodge | o/ (on plane about to depart) | 19:06 |
| sslypushenko | because it needs some support | 19:06 |
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| catherineD | hogepodge: thx for attending ... | 19:07 |
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| sslypushenko | hogepodge hi! | 19:07 |
| Rockyg | Thierry's comment is good. We need to either expand mission or expand definition of refstack to include more interop | 19:07 |
| catherineD | hogepodge: would you be able to take a look at Thierry Carrez 's comment on https://review.openstack.org/#/c/213930/ | 19:07 |
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| hogepodge | Are you comfortable being an interop team? | 19:08 |
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| catherineD | Rockyg: I am thinking of let RefStack be a DefCore supportive tools ... eventually it can be under interops... | 19:09 |
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| catherineD | I would like to keep our mission focus for now so we can achieve clearly define objective ... | 19:09 |
| hogepodge | I think it will be an important and much wanted testing tool | 19:09 |
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| hogepodge | Ops want it based on meeting last week | 19:10 |
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| catherineD | hogepodge: in last week's meeting we just tried to define official name for RefStack .. | 19:11 |
| catherineD | we agree to use Use RefStack as project name (not Refstack or refstack) .. | 19:11 |
| catherineD | so I am not ready to rename our project to Interops ... I think it is a much bigger scope ... | 19:12 |
| hogepodge | Great. Consistency across rest of ecosystem | 19:12 |
| catherineD | we can keep RefStack to be a tool to support DefCore for now ... | 19:12 |
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| catherineD | please give me your thoughts ... | 19:12 |
| hogepodge | Ok. Related to that, non Defcore view might be nice. Just list of passed tests, also non Defcore rendering. I can write up proposal of what I mean | 19:13 |
| hogepodge | Will do. I'm about to go afk | 19:13 |
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| hogepodge | Plane doors closing | 19:14 |
| catherineD | hogepodge: thx so much | 19:14 |
| hogepodge | Thank you! | 19:14 |
| pvaneck | I think keeping refstack just focuesed as a tool for defcore is good for now. still have to refine it enough as it is | 19:14 |
| catherineD | Rockyg: I am just afraid that we will loos our focus on what we are doing now ... | 19:15 |
| catherineD | loos --> loose | 19:15 |
| pvaneck | hogepodge: https://review.openstack.org/#/c/215759/ this might be related to what you are looking for | 19:15 |
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| sslypushenko | catherineD +1 | 19:16 |
| sslypushenko | RefStack should do well some single thing. So we need to keep focus | 19:17 |
| catherineD | so I think sslypushenko: pvaneck: are in favor of keeping RefStack to be a test took for DefCore ... | 19:17 |
| catherineD | Rockyg: how about you? | 19:18 |
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| Rockyg | just a sec | 19:18 |
| Rockyg | I think we can expand the mission without expanding the current focus. we are rev 0.1 | 19:20 |
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| catherineD | Rockyg: do we need to rename our project to interops if we expand out mission? | 19:21 |
| sslypushenko | Because we are doing some plannig now it is time for some bad news. Foundtion stops funding Mirantis team | 19:21 |
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| catherineD | sslypushenko: wow :-( the entire team? | 19:22 |
| Rockyg | No. we would still be providing a reference for interop | 19:23 |
| catherineD | that is not really good news for us ... | 19:23 |
| sslypushenko | So my effors will sagnificantly deccise | 19:23 |
| sslypushenko | *decreased | 19:23 |
| catherineD | Rockyg: I would love to have you as co-author for https://review.openstack.org/#/c/213930/ | 19:24 |
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| sslypushenko | catherineD yeap, entire team. | 19:24 |
| catherineD | sslypushenko: we will really miss you ... would you still be able to give reviews ... since you are our core .... | 19:24 |
| pvaneck | Yea, would still be nice to have you as a core, sslypushenko, at least for the occasional review or +A | 19:25 |
| sslypushenko | Hope so | 19:25 |
| sslypushenko | Also I tried to do as mush as possible while I will be on bench | 19:25 |
| catherineD | sslypushenko: I know ... you have brought great value to the RefStack team ... we are really sad :-( | 19:26 |
| sslypushenko | catherineD Thx) Hope it is temporary | 19:26 |
| Rockyg | definitely will miss your focused attention. You've really moved the quality bar up. | 19:27 |
| catherineD | sslypushenko: we are such a small team ... I can't afford to loose anyone .. | 19:27 |
| catherineD | Rockyg: let me work with you offline on https://review.openstack.org/#/c/213930/ .. | 19:27 |
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| catherineD | moving to the next topic ...? | 19:28 |
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| sslypushenko | +1 | 19:28 |
| catherineD | #topic Infra hosting | 19:29 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Infra hosting (Meeting topic: refstack)" | 19:29 | |
| catherineD | #action Rockyg: and catherineD: will work on response to comments on https://review.openstack.org/#/c/213930/ | 19:29 |
| pvaneck | so this is awaiting changes in our puppet-refstack module | 19:29 |
| pvaneck | as we currently fail a jenkins job for our system-config patch | 19:30 |
| catherineD | pvaneck: could you provide the patch link ... | 19:30 |
| pvaneck | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/214950/ | 19:30 |
| pvaneck | currently working on that patch, but am planning on splitting the cleaning stuff out as yolanda suggested | 19:30 |
| catherineD | pvaneck: thx | 19:31 |
| catherineD | pvaneck: I guess this will be work in progress then ... | 19:31 |
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| pvaneck | right | 19:31 |
| catherineD | ok thx moving on .,.. | 19:31 |
| catherineD | #topic Face-2-face meeting | 19:32 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Face-2-face meeting (Meeting topic: refstack)" | 19:32 | |
| catherineD | sslypushenko: will you still be able to attend the f2f IRC meeting giving the news that you will have to decrease the time spent on RefStack .. | 19:32 |
| sslypushenko | Yeap, I'm going to attenf f2f if I don't go to vacation | 19:33 |
| catherineD | sslypushenko: we should not stop you from your vacation ... when is your vacation? | 19:34 |
| sslypushenko | I'm still thinking about it) | 19:35 |
| catherineD | sslypushenko: We may move the date ... | 19:35 |
| sslypushenko | No-no | 19:35 |
| Rockyg | sslypushenko, have you considered applying for foundation support for attending Tokyo summit? being core, you have a good reason | 19:35 |
| catherineD | right now if you look at the agenda .. there are 2 topics... | 19:35 |
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| sslypushenko | Rockyg I thought but Mirantis will fund my attending summit, but now I don't think that it has a real reason | 19:37 |
| sslypushenko | but -> that | 19:37 |
| catherineD | sslypushenko: you will attend the summit if the speaker session is accepted .. right? | 19:38 |
| Rockyg | apply now and don't tell Mirantis. If Mirantis funds you, you can return the stipend to be given someone else. | 19:39 |
| sslypushenko | Hmmm... Ok I'll try) | 19:39 |
| sslypushenko | Do someone know anything about vote results? | 19:40 |
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| catherineD | sslypushenko: really hope to see you at the summit ... | 19:40 |
| catherineD | sslypushenko: the results will be announced on 8/26 .. | 19:40 |
| catherineD | 2 more days | 19:40 |
| sslypushenko | Cool | 19:40 |
| catherineD | I am seriously wanting to move the f2f dates if sslypushenko: and hogepodge: can not attend ... because | 19:41 |
| catherineD | on the f2f agenda: topic non-tempest testing: we need sslypushenko: 's involvement ... topic DefCore use case: we need Rob and hogepodge: 's involvment ... | 19:42 |
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| sslypushenko | +1 for Rob and hogepodge: 's involvment | 19:42 |
| Rockyg | ++ | 19:43 |
| catherineD | I have not heard back from Rob and hogepodge: ... and since it will be next week ... I really want to re-schedule ... I do not want to waist our time to meet and accomplish nothing | 19:44 |
| pvaneck | I think one day is all we need as well | 19:44 |
| catherineD | #startvote To re-schedule next week;s face-2-face meeting | 19:45 |
| openstack | Unable to parse vote topic and options. | 19:45 |
| catherineD | #startvote To re-schedule next week's face-2-face meeting | 19:45 |
| openstack | Unable to parse vote topic and options. | 19:45 |
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| catherineD | I still don't know how to do the vote stuff ... pls just tell me yes (to reschedule) or no | 19:46 |
| pvaneck | well, if only us two attend, then yes reschedule | 19:47 |
| catherineD | no (to keep next week's date) | 19:47 |
| catherineD | Rockyg: how about you? | 19:47 |
| catherineD | sslypushenko: ? | 19:48 |
| Rockyg | reschedule to when? | 19:48 |
| sslypushenko | yes if Chris or Rob cann't attend | 19:48 |
| catherineD | I need to recheck everyone's calendar again ... | 19:48 |
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| Rockyg | ok. | 19:48 |
| Rockyg | Rescheduling is fine. | 19:49 |
| Rockyg | #vote yes | 19:49 |
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| catherineD | #action Re-schedule next week face-2-face meeting at a date that works for RefStack team members especially hogepodge: and Rob. | 19:50 |
| catherineD | thank you all... | 19:51 |
| catherineD | #topic OpenStackID integration | 19:51 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStackID integration (Meeting topic: refstack)" | 19:51 | |
| catherineD | All patches merged. Thanks sslypushenko: for your hardwork !! | 19:51 |
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| catherineD | Rockyg: we can now upload data with signed users and with that RefStack now supports deleting data ... | 19:52 |
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| pvaneck | Will continue working on the refinement of the website. Any desired features or bugs should be noted on launchpad. | 19:54 |
| Rockyg | kewl! so once infra is hosting, we'll have full control and everyone will be happier. | 19:54 |
| catherineD | #info all patches merged. User can now upload data with signature and can delete the data if desire. | 19:54 |
| catherineD | Rockyg: yup ... with a few improvment as stated by pvaneck: .... | 19:55 |
| catherineD | 5 mins | 19:55 |
| catherineD | #topic Open discussions | 19:55 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Open discussions (Meeting topic: refstack)" | 19:55 | |
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| catherineD | Rockyg: pvaneck: is also working on the patches for infra hosting and refinement of the website ... | 19:57 |
| catherineD | anything else to discuss? | 19:57 |
| pvaneck | i think we are all good | 19:57 |
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| catherineD | ok | 19:58 |
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| catherineD | #endmeeting | 19:58 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 19:58 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Mon Aug 24 19:58:30 2015 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 19:58 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/refstack/2015/refstack.2015-08-24-19.00.html | 19:58 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/refstack/2015/refstack.2015-08-24-19.00.txt | 19:58 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/refstack/2015/refstack.2015-08-24-19.00.log.html | 19:58 |
| catherineD | thank you ! | 19:58 |
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| Rockyg | thanks! | 19:59 |
| redrobot | #startmeeting barbican | 20:00 |
| openstack | Meeting started Mon Aug 24 20:00:14 2015 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is redrobot. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 20:00 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 20:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: barbican)" | 20:00 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'barbican' | 20:00 |
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| elmiko | heyo/ | 20:00 |
| silos1 | \o/ | 20:01 |
| rellerreller | o/ | 20:01 |
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| jkf | Howdy | 20:01 |
| kfarr | o/ | 20:01 |
| apmelton | o/ | 20:01 |
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| edtubill | o/ | 20:01 |
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| jaosorior | Yo | 20:02 |
| redrobot | welcome back jaosorior ! | 20:02 |
| arunkant | o/ | 20:03 |
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| igueths | o/ | 20:03 |
| redrobot | As usual our agenda can be found here: | 20:03 |
| redrobot | #link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings/Barbican | 20:03 |
| jaosorior | :D | 20:03 |
| redrobot | #topic Action Items from last meeting | 20:03 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Action Items from last meeting (Meeting topic: barbican)" | 20:03 | |
| redrobot | #link http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/barbican/2015/barbican.2015-08-17-20.01.html | 20:03 |
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| redrobot | so.... | 20:04 |
| rm_work | o/ | 20:04 |
| redrobot | I need to get better at these | 20:04 |
| redrobot | #action redrobot to finish prioritizing liberty-2 bugs, and also check them for kilo status | 20:04 |
| redrobot | #action redrobot to fix the stable/kilo gate failures during mid-cycle (in-progress) | 20:04 |
| redrobot | #action | 20:04 |
| redrobot | #action redrobot and alee to backport the DogTag gate fixes into stable/kilo after redrobot fixes the gate | 20:04 |
| redrobot | all 3 of these are getting punted, because I'm lame | 20:04 |
| redrobot | however | 20:05 |
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| redrobot | I did work with kfarr to get python-barbicanclient released | 20:05 |
| kfarr | Hooray! | 20:05 |
| redrobot | #link http://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/openstack-announce/2015-August/000546.html | 20:05 |
| redrobot | and the last action item was for hockeynut | 20:06 |
| elmiko | \o/ | 20:06 |
| redrobot | but I do believe he's at a team-building outing today | 20:06 |
| redrobot | so I'll punt that to next week as well | 20:06 |
| redrobot | #action hockeynut to review bug tracking policies and give feedback | 20:06 |
| redrobot | ok, moving on to the action items for today | 20:07 |
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| redrobot | #topic Merge Requirements | 20:07 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Merge Requirements (Meeting topic: barbican)" | 20:07 | |
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| alee | o/ | 20:07 |
| redrobot | We talked about this in Vancouver, but I think it's worth revisiting | 20:07 |
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| redrobot | I've noticed that Castellan and python-barbicanclient patches have been lingering for along time | 20:08 |
| redrobot | we had a Castellan patch with 2x +2 sit in the queue for over a week | 20:08 |
| redrobot | before I merged it without waiting for a +W from a third reviewer | 20:08 |
| redrobot | As many contributors have noted, we're the only OpenStack project that requires 3 core reviewers for a merge | 20:09 |
| redrobot | all other projects only require 2 | 20:09 |
| elmiko | seems fair though, given the sensitive nature of some patches | 20:09 |
| elmiko | slow, but fair ;) | 20:09 |
| alee | elmiko, but not all patches are that sensitive | 20:09 |
| elmiko | true | 20:09 |
| elmiko | especially barbicanclient i suppose | 20:10 |
| alee | elmiko, is what we're doing any less sensitive than what say keystone is doing? | 20:10 |
| elmiko | good question | 20:10 |
| elmiko | i guess not, but some of the crypto stuff seems like it should have more eyes on it | 20:11 |
| rellerreller | Maybe elmiko thinks keystone should do 3 +2s??? | 20:11 |
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| rellerreller | :) | 20:11 |
| elmiko | rellerreller: lol, no | 20:11 |
| * elmiko steps away from the land mine | 20:11 | |
| rellerreller | lol | 20:12 |
| redrobot | anyway... we don't have to make a decision today, but I did want to bring this up | 20:12 |
| igueths | It could be argued that given the variability of credentials that could be stored, that the aggregate sensitivity rating should be higher than that of Keystone. | 20:12 |
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| * elmiko hands the ball to igueths | 20:12 | |
| igueths | Hahaha | 20:12 |
| alee | I think that perhaps patches with more crypto stuff might need more review, but the overall effect is a slowing down of patches going in. | 20:12 |
| elmiko | =) | 20:12 |
| redrobot | alee indeed... | 20:13 |
| elmiko | alee: true, and i'm not arguing for slowing the process down | 20:13 |
| redrobot | maybe a better compromise would be for our reviewers to call out that specific patches should get an additional +2 ? | 20:13 |
| elmiko | would be nice if there was a clear way to mark higher sensitivity patches though, then the lower ones could get by with fewer +2s | 20:13 |
| elmiko | lol, jinx! | 20:13 |
| igueths | alee: redrobot Sounds reasonable. | 20:14 |
| redrobot | maybe SecurityImpact flag means this patch needs 3x +2 | 20:14 |
| redrobot | ? | 20:14 |
| elmiko | that's a nice idea | 20:14 |
| igueths | +1 | 20:14 |
| alee | well that gets the security group involved , doesn't it? | 20:14 |
| rellerreller | +1 | 20:14 |
| rellerreller | yes | 20:14 |
| redrobot | alee indeed it does | 20:14 |
| redrobot | well in theory anyway | 20:14 |
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| elmiko | it alerts the security group, whether they get involved is another step | 20:15 |
| redrobot | we don't have to make a decision right now | 20:16 |
| alee | I'm certainly in favor of getting the security group involved if need be -- and then requiring 3 +2 | 20:16 |
| rellerreller | Some are not always security critical as well. Content types would be one where I would want 3 +2s because that was big change. | 20:16 |
| alee | as for the rest, I'm inclined to 2 +2s. | 20:16 |
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| redrobot | ok, it seems we like that suggestion... (or at least I do :) | 20:16 |
| elmiko | maybe just mark it BarbicanImpact, then you can search for them easily? | 20:16 |
| alee | that would be nice -- can we add a new flag like that? | 20:17 |
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| alee | I could certainly see a reviewer thinking that a change was too big to come in without a thrid +2 | 20:17 |
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| elmiko | i thought you could search the commit messages for arbitrary strings through gerrit, is that not the case? | 20:17 |
| alee | that would not be security related | 20:18 |
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| redrobot | yeah, you can... we wouldn't get all the nifty notification stuff that security folks get | 20:18 |
| elmiko | right | 20:18 |
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| rellerreller | Do we need notifications? | 20:18 |
| redrobot | rellerreller nah, I don't think so | 20:19 |
| alee | redrobot, so yeah - I like this idea -- 2 +2's unless either patch submitter or one review marks it either as security impact or barbican impact. | 20:19 |
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| rellerreller | If it's in the commit message I can easily see that and know what to do. | 20:19 |
| elmiko | i was just thinking more in terms of creating a barbican dashboard with gerrit-dashboard-generator or something | 20:19 |
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| redrobot | alee I like that | 20:19 |
| redrobot | rellerreller +1 | 20:19 |
| redrobot | ok, let's table this until next week, since I want to get input from the rest of the core team | 20:19 |
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| redrobot | I'll poke at the rest of the core devs and get a tally of support for this | 20:20 |
| redrobot | also, if you're not a core reviewer, and feel like reviews are slow, let me know! | 20:20 |
| kfarr | I like the idea of a Barbican impact tag | 20:21 |
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| redrobot | ok, we'll revisit this next week | 20:21 |
| redrobot | moving on | 20:21 |
| redrobot | #topic Tokyo Sessions Space Requirements | 20:21 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Tokyo Sessions Space Requirements (Meeting topic: barbican)" | 20:21 | |
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| redrobot | I was just pinged by the summit organizing folk to get our requirements for fishbowls/design sessions/meetups for the Tokyo summit | 20:22 |
| redrobot | last summit we had 3 fishbowl, 10 design, and 1 meetup | 20:22 |
| chellygel | at least 1 gundam serving tea while we work :3 | 20:22 |
| redrobot | I was thinking we probably only need 2 fishbowls this time around: 1 for Barbican roadmap (splitting kms/cms in v2), and 1 for Federation | 20:23 |
| rellerreller | What about encryption as a service? | 20:24 |
| rellerreller | Or would that fit into v2 discussion? | 20:24 |
| redrobot | rellerreller I think it could definitely fit into a v2 discussion | 20:24 |
| redrobot | rellerreller do you think it needs a fishbowl of its own? | 20:24 |
| elmiko | chellygel: lol | 20:24 |
| rellerreller | No, but the description you gave I was not sure what was under that tent. | 20:25 |
| * redrobot prefers maid café over gundam | 20:25 | |
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| * silos1 pokes his head in after hearing federation | 20:25 | |
| chellygel | redrobot, its a gundam dressed as a maid. | 20:25 |
| * chellygel stops being bad and shuts up | 20:25 | |
| * elmiko facepalms | 20:25 | |
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| redrobot | rellerreller what all is included is open for discussion... just figured v2 would be of interest to the wider community | 20:26 |
| rellerreller | I agree that lots will be interested. I think v2 discussion is definitely fish bowl worthy. | 20:26 |
| redrobot | silos1 I was thinking about using the federation fishbowl to gather use cases from the community | 20:26 |
| silos1 | silos that sounds like a good plan. | 20:27 |
| alee | redrobot, encryption as a service sounds like something we'd want to get feedback/use cases on | 20:27 |
| redrobot | silos1 also maybe have a high level architecture ready ... depending on how much we can get done before the summit. | 20:27 |
| silos1 | redrobot: I came up with a new design today. I can upload it later on. | 20:27 |
| alee | redrobot, not sure you could do both v2 and eaas in same fishbowl | 20:27 |
| silos1 | redrobot: I don't know if I'm going yet to Tokyo though so I might be with you guys in spirit. | 20:28 |
| redrobot | alee I think that actually fleshing out the v2 api would be done in design sessions... I'm thinking the fishbowl would be to tell the community which way we're headed, and get use cases/requirements for v2 | 20:30 |
| elmiko | probably should talk with reaperhulk about EaaS, he and i talked about it in vancouver and he had some really good thoughts, and criticisms. | 20:30 |
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| redrobot | elmiko +1 | 20:31 |
| redrobot | elmiko I'm still crossing my fingers that reaperhulk will be able to attend | 20:31 |
| elmiko | redrobot: that would be cool | 20:31 |
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| alee | redrobot, ok thats fine then | 20:33 |
| redrobot | cool, I'll only be asking for 2 fishbowls then | 20:33 |
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| redrobot | I'm going to keep the design sessions at 10 | 20:33 |
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| redrobot | but it seems we may be space challenged (think Paris o_O) ... so we'll see how much time we'll actually get | 20:34 |
| elmiko | sounds like there are more, but smaller, rooms | 20:34 |
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| redrobot | the Vancouver space was ideal... I wish we could just go back there... | 20:35 |
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| elmiko | sigh... you and me both ;) | 20:35 |
| redrobot | but hopefully we'll be able to stay busy all 4 days | 20:35 |
| redrobot | and that's all I have for the agenda today | 20:35 |
| redrobot | #topic Open Discussion | 20:35 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Open Discussion (Meeting topic: barbican)" | 20:35 | |
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| elmiko | redrobot, kfarr, since barbicanclient has been updated, i assume castellan will get one soon? | 20:36 |
| apmelton | just wanted to introduce myself, I'm Andrew Melton from the magnum team | 20:36 |
| redrobot | hi apmelton ! | 20:36 |
| elmiko | hi apmelton | 20:36 |
| kfarr | elmiko, a new release, you mean? Hi apmelton! | 20:36 |
| apmelton | I had a question from the group that's working on our barbican interaction | 20:37 |
| elmiko | kfarr: yea | 20:37 |
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| redrobot | apmelton what's up? | 20:37 |
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| dave-mccowan | o/ | 20:37 |
| apmelton | during our mid-cycle we talked about barbican supporting a different CA per cluster | 20:37 |
| redrobot | elmiko I'm just waiting on kfarr to poke me for a release... although I'm half tempted to submit a patch to remove "common" from the namespaces | 20:37 |
| apmelton | I was wondering if there's been any progress on that | 20:38 |
| kfarr | elmiko, yes, thinking after this one gets in https://review.openstack.org/#/c/208569/ | 20:38 |
| apmelton | and/or blueprints I could follow | 20:38 |
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| elmiko | redrobot: you don't like the common package? | 20:39 |
| redrobot | elmiko nope... not sure what it's "common" to... | 20:39 |
| elmiko | kfarr: thanks, i'll try to get a few more reviews in ;) | 20:39 |
| alee | apmelton, yeah - there is a blueprint that I wrote .. | 20:39 |
| alee | apmelton, just a sec .. | 20:39 |
| elmiko | redrobot: oh right, it was part of the patch series for the cert stuff | 20:39 |
| kfarr | "common" was really sort of a relic from the cinder and nova implementations | 20:40 |
| alee | apmelton, https://review.openstack.org/#/c/187236/ | 20:40 |
| elmiko | kfarr: interesting.. | 20:40 |
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| alee | apmelton, I'm going to be working on implementing this over the next couple of weeks or so. | 20:41 |
| alee | 2-3 weeks | 20:41 |
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| apmelton | alee: cool, I'll keep an eye out for the work | 20:41 |
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| apmelton | I don't think we're blocked on it yet, but if we are I'll be sure to bring it up | 20:42 |
| alee | apmelton, yup - please do. I'm perfectly happy to have someone ready to test whatever I have | 20:42 |
| lisaclark1 | apmelton: i'm interested in your plans for magnum + barbican integration. i noted on your midcycle meetup minutes that it looked like magnum was moving forward with anchor as a phase 1 plan | 20:42 |
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| apmelton | lisaclark1: yea, phase one is to use a library and have magnum issue CAs itself | 20:43 |
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| apmelton | I think we've moved from anchor to crytography.io | 20:43 |
| lisaclark1 | apmelton: and phase 2 is integration with barbican? | 20:43 |
| apmelton | that's correct | 20:43 |
| apmelton | and note, this is for CA | 20:43 |
| apmelton | I believe we're going to support barbican for storage from the get-go | 20:44 |
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| lisaclark1 | apmelton: awesome! magnum + barbican for key storage in phase 1, magnum + barbican for CA capabilities as phase 2 | 20:45 |
| apmelton | that's correct | 20:45 |
| lisaclark1 | thanks apmelton. i might ping you offline at some point to better understand the magnum + barbican CA integration needs. | 20:45 |
| apmelton | sounds good lisaclark1 | 20:45 |
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| redrobot | alrighty, anything else while we're all here? | 20:46 |
| dave-mccowan | Topic: Python 3. Pradeep was on the channel early this morning. He's in Japan (I think), so this meeting time is not good for him. He's been submitting patches to get Barbican Python 3 ready, and has asked for more reviews and feedback on his patches. | 20:46 |
| rm_work | redrobot: I'm resurrecting another of my old zombie patches: https://review.openstack.org/#/c/167885/ | 20:46 |
| redrobot | rm_work oh nice | 20:47 |
| rm_work | because integration is frustrating when projects need to include barbican in their devstack installs :P | 20:47 |
| redrobot | rm_work I saw y'all are trying to get a devstack gate going? | 20:47 |
| rm_work | so this would make it a lot simpler | 20:47 |
| rm_work | yes | 20:47 |
| rm_work | might need help making this work with YOUR gates though | 20:48 |
| rm_work | so if whoever handles your gate stuff could hit me up | 20:48 |
| rm_work | I am not super familiar with it | 20:48 |
| redrobot | rm_work you can grab me IRL if you want... I'm pretty familiar with our gate setup | 20:48 |
| rm_work | kk | 20:48 |
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| arunkant | redrobot: review request for barbican client changes. Have not seen review happening on client side. | 20:49 |
| rm_work | honestly the actual project changes are pretty trivial | 20:49 |
| redrobot | dave-mccowan I saw that | 20:49 |
| redrobot | dave-mccowan as we start getting more APAC contributors we may want to consider alternating meetings like other projects do | 20:49 |
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| redrobot | arunkant I'll try to review soon... we also have some of Fernando's patches in the client that have been pending reviews for a while | 20:51 |
| redrobot | arunkant it's part of the reason I was suggesting lowering the core reviews needed to merge | 20:51 |
| redrobot | anything else before we call it a day? | 20:53 |
| woodster_ | Joined late, forgot to... | 20:53 |
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| woodster_ | o/ | 20:54 |
| redrobot | woodster_ I'm going to need you to stay after to make up the time. ;) | 20:54 |
| elmiko | haha | 20:54 |
| woodster_ | Ha, will do | 20:54 |
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| redrobot | alrighty guys, thanks for coming | 20:55 |
| redrobot | #endmeeting | 20:55 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 20:55 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Mon Aug 24 20:55:24 2015 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 20:55 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/barbican/2015/barbican.2015-08-24-20.00.html | 20:55 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/barbican/2015/barbican.2015-08-24-20.00.txt | 20:55 |
| elmiko | thanks redrobot | 20:55 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/barbican/2015/barbican.2015-08-24-20.00.log.html | 20:55 |
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