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| bswartz | #startmeeting manila | 15:00 |
|---|---|---|
| openstack | Meeting started Thu Aug 13 15:00:14 2015 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is bswartz. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 15:00 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 15:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: manila)" | 15:00 | |
| bswartz | hello all | 15:00 |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'manila' | 15:00 |
| ganso_ | hello | 15:00 |
| toabctl | hi | 15:00 |
| dustins | \o | 15:00 |
| bswartz | #agenda https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Manila/Meetings | 15:00 |
| vponomaryov | Hello | 15:00 |
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| bswartz | also a quick reminder before we get started | 15:00 |
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| bswartz | we've got 3 weeks until feature freeze, and 1 week until feature proposal freeze | 15:01 |
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| bswartz | hopefully everyone understand what feature proposal freeze means | 15:01 |
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| bswartz | ameade: here? | 15:02 |
| bswartz | #topic Consistency Groups discussion | 15:02 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Consistency Groups discussion (Meeting topic: manila)" | 15:02 | |
| ameade | o/ | 15:02 |
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| ameade | so I just wanted to make sure everyone has been paying attn to https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Manila/design/manila-liberty-consistency-groups | 15:02 |
| ameade | It should be up to date | 15:03 |
| ameade | and patches will be coming soon | 15:03 |
| ameade | one thing I wanted to discuss is doing this as an extension | 15:03 |
| bswartz | ameade: that's the wiki you shared at the midcycle right? | 15:03 |
| ameade | bswartz: yeah | 15:03 |
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| bswartz | ameade: extensions are bad! (according to jaypipes) | 15:03 |
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| xyang1 | Hi | 15:04 |
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| bswartz | we've discussed the possibility of marking the APIs as @experimental, once we have microversions | 15:04 |
| jaypipes | bswartz: um, yeah, API extensions are baaad, m'kay. | 15:04 |
| ameade | I think we should do as an extension for Liberty since that makes deployers able to turn it off and we dont have the experimental stuff all the way implemented | 15:04 |
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| bswartz | ameade: is there a reason to prefer extensions over microversioned APIs for this feature? | 15:05 |
| ameade | we have to get the microversion stuff done and there isn't a lot of time? | 15:05 |
| bswartz | ameade: you mean some of the APIs won't even work? or they'll be missing? | 15:05 |
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| bswartz | ameade: microversions have been in gerrit for a long time | 15:06 |
| bswartz | just waiting for merge | 15:06 |
| ameade | bswartz: no i mean experimental api decorators dont exist yet | 15:06 |
| vponomaryov | ameade: microversions are Ok now, small nits left | 15:06 |
| bswartz | https://review.openstack.org/#/c/207228/ | 15:06 |
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| vponomaryov | ameade: you can use it as dependency | 15:06 |
| ameade | iirc it doesnt have anything about experimental apis in it | 15:06 |
| bswartz | ameade: adding @experimental should be super easy | 15:06 |
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| bswartz | you're correct that @experimental is not part of microversions currently | 15:07 |
| ameade | also, being an experimental api means we have to have generic driver support right? | 15:07 |
| bswartz | but I propose adding it as a follow on -- probably less than 100 lines of new code to do that | 15:07 |
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| ameade | what do we gain making it experimental? | 15:08 |
| bswartz | ameade: no -- whether it's experimental or an extension has nothing to do with generic driver support | 15:08 |
| dustins | bswartz: What's the benefit of a follow on as opposed to the @expermiental decorator? | 15:08 |
| bswartz | @experimental would essentially be a documentation thing telling users that it's NOT guaranteed to exist in future version | 15:08 |
| bswartz | versions | 15:08 |
| akerr | bswartz: don't you get that same implication with an extension? | 15:09 |
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| bswartz | akerr: yes but extensions are not versioned and we want to kill them with fire | 15:09 |
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| bswartz | and currently we have some "extensions" which are part of the core API, so we can't actually remove them without causing breakage | 15:10 |
| bswartz | I think the problem is that extensions are *supposed* to be optional but they're actually not, so they just cause more problems than they solve | 15:10 |
| bswartz | that's why I want to eliminate them the sooner the better | 15:11 |
| akerr | but this would be completely optional, which is why we were asked to make it an extension in the first place | 15:11 |
| bswartz | I get that the feature will be optional for backends to implement | 15:12 |
| bswartz | backends can simply not support the API if they don't want to | 15:12 |
| ameade | but that means users can hit an endpoint that will never work | 15:12 |
| bswartz | however the REST APIs will be part of manila, in the next microversion after 1.0 | 15:12 |
| bswartz | ameade: that will be true when the feature is not experimental too | 15:13 |
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| bswartz | if someone deploys manila with a non-cg-supporting-backend a year from now, all of the CG APIs will just return not supported | 15:13 |
| bswartz | that's by design I thought | 15:13 |
| ameade | i think ideally we'd have versioned extensions and it would always be an extension | 15:14 |
| ameade | yeah they could always change the policies like in cinder if they want to block then endpoints that way | 15:14 |
| bswartz | I don't think anyone has volunteered to implemented versioned extensions | 15:14 |
| bswartz | it was the lack of such a feature that drove us to want to eliminate extensions in the first place | 15:15 |
| bswartz | and microversions is the path forward for us and the rest of openstack | 15:15 |
| ameade | that's why i said ideally :P | 15:15 |
| ameade | abusing microversions is scary in and of itself by the way but that's another discussion | 15:15 |
| bswartz | abusing how? | 15:16 |
| bswartz | I believe that the combination of microversions and experimental tags should allow us to support everything we need to going forward | 15:16 |
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| ameade | what's the logical difference between an extension and an experimental api? | 15:17 |
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| bswartz | experimental APIs are versioned | 15:17 |
| akerr | why do experimentals need versions? They by definition don't need to maintain compatibility | 15:17 |
| toabctl | there could also be a "extension" tag instead of experimental.then youhave versioned extensions. | 15:17 |
| bswartz | so if we have version 2.15, and we want to add a new experimental API, we increment the version to 2.16 and add it, but with the @experimental tag | 15:18 |
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| bswartz | when we decide that it was a bad experiment, we increment the version to 2.17 and remove the API, or replace it with a better version | 15:18 |
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| bswartz | extensions give the client no way to know what version they're talking to | 15:18 |
| akerr | experimental implies unstable, whereas extension implies optional. They're not interchangeable | 15:19 |
| bswartz | you have to rename the extension to change it in any material way | 15:19 |
| bswartz | akerr: I agree | 15:19 |
| cknight | akerr: +1 | 15:19 |
| toabctl | akerr: yeah. true | 15:19 |
| dustins | akerr: +1 | 15:19 |
| vponomaryov | akerr: killer argument! =) | 15:20 |
| bswartz | My proposal is that no part of the manila API should be optional -- the API is the API, and if a particular installation of Manila can't support some APIs there better be a way for the client to find that out | 15:20 |
| ameade | akerr: +1 | 15:20 |
| bswartz | that's why I'm very keen on things like public capabilities in the share_type for stuff like snapshots (now that they're optional), for share_server/share_networks (added in kilo) and for share replication (planned for Mitaka) | 15:21 |
| ganso_ | akerr: +1 | 15:21 |
| ameade | at the midcycle we were just gonna do it as a core feature i thought, then it got switch to an extension, and now we want to switch it back | 15:21 |
| bswartz | My view of extensions is that they should be things out of tree | 15:21 |
| cknight | An experimental tag is a logical extension to the microversions work. I would volunteer to do that, but I doubt I could do it by FPF. | 15:22 |
| ameade | i want a FFE if we have to go that route | 15:22 |
| bswartz | if an administrator wants to "extend" his Manila instance with special sauce he wrote, then he should be able to extend the API, but not contribute that upstream | 15:22 |
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| bswartz | okay | 15:23 |
| dustins | ameade: +1, it seems like a lot of effort to get done before FF | 15:23 |
| bswartz | ameade: isn't changing things from an extension to a core API a relatively small change? | 15:23 |
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| ameade | bswartz: gotta wait on the experimental tag | 15:24 |
| ameade | gotta change the client and the tempest tests | 15:24 |
| bswartz | okay I'm confused about why @experimental is more than a few minutes of work | 15:24 |
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| bswartz | but we can table that and get back to consistency groups | 15:24 |
| bswartz | other than how the APIs are presented to end users, is there anything we need to discuss about consistency groups? | 15:25 |
| ameade | i've got nothing else, the design doc is up there and the code is coming soon | 15:25 |
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| bswartz | ameade: given the FPF date, I suggest pushing it in its current form, even if it's currently implemented as an extension | 15:26 |
| bswartz | we can figure out the API side in the next 2 weeks and change it as needed based on microversions, and experimental | 15:27 |
| ameade | bswartz: that sounds good, that should only affect the API patch anyways, the db and scheduler changes should be fine as is | 15:27 |
| bswartz | yeah I really think that's a minor concern | 15:27 |
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| bswartz | the point of the FPF date is to give reviewers time to review and provide feedback | 15:27 |
| cknight | bswartz: OK, I'll work on @experiemental. Microversions should merge this week (hopefully). | 15:27 |
| bswartz | and most of the code has nothing to do with the REST APIs | 15:27 |
| bswartz | well let's talk about experimental real quick since we're all here | 15:28 |
| bswartz | #topic experimental APIs | 15:28 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "experimental APIs (Meeting topic: manila)" | 15:28 | |
| bswartz | so my proposal is simple | 15:28 |
| bswartz | add a new empty decorator called @experimental | 15:28 |
| bswartz | it would layer on top of microversions | 15:29 |
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| bswartz | basically if an API has the tag, it documents to users that we make no guarantees about that API existing or changing in future versions | 15:29 |
| bswartz | once we're happy with an API, we can simply remove the @experimental tag and it becomes set in concrete like the existing rest API | 15:30 |
| bswartz | adding/remove @experimental status on any API would cause the microversion to bump | 15:30 |
| bswartz | this gives us a path to deprecate certain APIs without deprecating the rest of the API | 15:31 |
| bswartz | of course any API can be deprecated by raising the minimum microversion that we support | 15:31 |
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| bswartz | but for reasons that are hopefully obvious to everyone, we will very rarely raise the minimum version | 15:32 |
| bswartz | any thoughts/concerns about this proposal? | 15:32 |
| dustins | bswartz: so we could wind up using the @experimental tag as a way to deprecate APIs? | 15:32 |
| cknight | dustins: no | 15:33 |
| bswartz | dustins: the thinking is that it allows us to release new features and obtain user feedback without commiting ourselves to an implementation | 15:33 |
| bswartz | the hope is that it results in features shipping faster | 15:33 |
| dustins | cknight: Okay, I thought so, just wanted to clarify my understanding | 15:33 |
| cknight | bswartz: The @experimental tag is an implementation detail that may have a simpler solution, but everything else makes sense. I volunteer. | 15:33 |
| bswartz | because we can avoid the step where we argue for 3 months about the exact API implementation | 15:33 |
| dustins | cknight: +1 | 15:34 |
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| bswartz | anyone against experimental APIs? | 15:35 |
| bswartz | okay! | 15:36 |
| vponomaryov | bswartz: wait | 15:36 |
| bswartz | vponomaryov: ? | 15:36 |
| vponomaryov | bswartz: if we make some tmporary thing influence our versions | 15:36 |
| vponomaryov | bswartz: then after its removal we get broken versions | 15:37 |
| bswartz | vponomaryov: so the proposal for microversions is to increment the version with *every* change | 15:37 |
| vponomaryov | bswartz: right, but keeping them always | 15:37 |
| bswartz | we could have possibly 2 dozen microversion bumps in a single release | 15:37 |
| cknight | bswartz: correct. Nova has seen about 12 in Liberty. | 15:38 |
| bswartz | liberty may be version 1.5 and mitaka could be 1.25 | 15:38 |
| cknight | http://docs.openstack.org/developer/nova/api_microversion_history.html | 15:38 |
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| bswartz | so there will inevitably be some microversions with very few or no actual users | 15:38 |
| bswartz | the point of microversions is that that's harmless | 15:39 |
| vponomaryov | bswartz: then each release should not have any "experimental things | 15:39 |
| vponomaryov | bswartz: only in dev time | 15:39 |
| cknight | bswartz: most users will send nothing and automatically get 1.0 | 15:39 |
| bswartz | vponomaryov: there's 2 things to consider | 15:39 |
| cknight | bswartz: but as we add new stuff, we'll bump the version requested by manilaclient | 15:39 |
| cknight | bswartz: so CLI users follow the latest by default | 15:40 |
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| bswartz | vponomaryov: microversions is designs to support people who run bleeding edge -- some people run unreleased code in production -- it's not recommended but it's supported | 15:40 |
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| bswartz | vponomaryov: releases are important because we create stable branches as those places and most people end up running the stable branch instead of master, but if experimental features never make it into stable branches then the value of them is lost | 15:41 |
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| vponomaryov | bswartz: I mean following: if we removed something, then server with latest code would not know some part of "supported" version | 15:41 |
| bswartz | I believe it's important to have experimental features in the stable branches because that's how we get actual user feedback on new features that are evolving | 15:42 |
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| bswartz | it's not realistic to expect every new feature to get designed and implemented within a single 6 month release cycle | 15:42 |
| bswartz | and I see that problem causing paralysis in other projects where "big" stuff never gets done | 15:43 |
| bswartz | I want to enable big stuff to happen over multiple releases | 15:43 |
| bswartz | and @experimental is the key to enabling that in my view | 15:44 |
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| cknight | bswartz: +1 Let's do big stuff. | 15:44 |
| bswartz | btw the Linux kernel has experimental feature too, and they get released and later removed/revised | 15:44 |
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| bswartz | perhaps this topic deserved a mail thread | 15:45 |
| bswartz | deserves* | 15:45 |
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| xyang1 | Will experimetal not get a version number until it becomes supported? | 15:46 |
| bswartz | I think people still don't understand the full value of microversions | 15:46 |
| bswartz | xyang1: experimental APIs will be versioned along with everything else | 15:46 |
| xyang1 | Then we could have gaps? | 15:46 |
| bswartz | remember that the microversion for the _whole_API_ increments every time you chance anything in any REST API | 15:46 |
| xyang1 | If we stop supporting it | 15:47 |
| bswartz | only for experimental stuff | 15:47 |
| cknight | xyang1: that's important, because experimental APIs can change between versions as we conduct the experiments! | 15:47 |
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| toabctl | so as I understand it: if we remove an as experimental declared api, we increase the microversion and that's it. | 15:48 |
| bswartz | the vast majority of REST APIs will not change | 15:48 |
| bswartz | toabctl: yes | 15:48 |
| vponomaryov | bswartz: and codebase of server will not have support of these versions | 15:49 |
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| vponomaryov | bswartz: xyang1 asked about it as "gaps" | 15:49 |
| vponomaryov | bswartz: that were used for this "temporary" feature | 15:49 |
| toabctl | vponomaryov: odebase of server will not have support for the experimental feature, but still for the version | 15:49 |
| bswartz | with microversions it's completely legal to remove an API and increment the version -- callers of the new version will see that API is gone -- however if callers request the older version, then the server is still obligated to support the API as it was in that version | 15:49 |
| bswartz | @experimental relieves the requirement to continue supporting the old API after it's removed | 15:50 |
| vponomaryov | bswartz: but server will not have code! | 15:50 |
| bswartz | vponomaryov: with microversions it actually will | 15:50 |
| ameade | this is what i mean by scary | 15:50 |
| xyang1 | So what I mean is we could support 1, 2, and 5, but not 3 and 4? | 15:50 |
| toabctl | bswartz: so you want to have experimental code even if it was removed with a new version? | 15:50 |
| akerr | so the code base will be bloated with old version of implementations everywhere? | 15:50 |
| bswartz | vponomaryov: with microversions you can never remove any old APIs until you increase the minimum microversion supported by the server | 15:50 |
| ameade | if you increment micro versions for every little change then you have crazy code complexity | 15:50 |
| bswartz | akerr: Yes -- and that's no worse than what we have today | 15:51 |
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| bswartz | ameade: no not really | 15:51 |
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| bswartz | ameade: because everything that didn't change doesn't need to be touched | 15:51 |
| ameade | bswartz: elaborate | 15:51 |
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| bswartz | I think sevaral of you may have missed cknights explanation of microversions at the midcycle | 15:51 |
| bswartz | too bad we didn't record that | 15:52 |
| akerr | that sounds like a maintenance nightmare to keep all the old implementations around | 15:52 |
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| ameade | even if it's just lots of little parts of things | 15:52 |
| bswartz | akerr: yes, and what we have now is also a maintenance nightmare | 15:52 |
| vponomaryov | bswartz: so, is there really enough gain of microversions in that case? | 15:52 |
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| cknight | vponomaryov: yes, because we can evolve APIs as needed. that's really hard now. | 15:53 |
| bswartz | okay, I sense that the microversions can of worms has opened again | 15:53 |
| toabctl | :-) | 15:53 |
| akerr | how far back do we support the apis? Will there be tempest tests for all supported versions? | 15:53 |
| ameade | i am only concerned with abusing them, if we change something from returning a 403 to a 409 or something then that means just a little bit of code complexity | 15:53 |
| bswartz | we may need to spend some time educating everyone one what they actually do | 15:53 |
| cknight | bswartz: I already did :-) | 15:53 |
| toabctl | akerr: until we bump the major version. in that case we can remove old crap | 15:53 |
| bswartz | however we had another topic for this week that was actually on the agenda unlike this one | 15:53 |
| dustins | cknight: could you hit up the mailing list with a cliff notes version of what you went over at the midcycle for those of us that missed it? | 15:53 |
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| bswartz | cknight: I'm sorry but a refresher seems needed | 15:54 |
| bswartz | I want to give dustins a chance | 15:54 |
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| cknight | bswartz: The best writeup comes from Nova: #link http://specs.openstack.org/openstack/nova-specs/specs/kilo/implemented/api-microversions.html | 15:54 |
| dustins | I'll make it quick :D | 15:54 |
| xyang1 | I think it is probably better for us to read the doc | 15:54 |
| bswartz | #topic Manila Tempest Audit | 15:54 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Manila Tempest Audit (Meeting topic: manila)" | 15:54 | |
| bswartz | dustins: sorry you've only got 5 minutes | 15:54 |
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| dustins | should be all I need (hopefully) :P | 15:54 |
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| dustins | So, I've been going through the Manila Tempest tests and I'm finding some that violate some of Tempest's best practices | 15:55 |
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| dustins | One big one being test independence, the shares_actions tests create shares on Class initialization and reuse them in all tests | 15:55 |
| dustins | which could be a problem if a test fails and puts the share/etc into a bad state | 15:56 |
| bswartz | dustins: now that openstack is encouraging projects to move their functional tests out of tempest and back into the various projects, how will we enforce testing best practices across projects? | 15:56 |
| bswartz | are we going to rely on QA liasons in each project keeping the faith? | 15:56 |
| dustins | bswartz: Just because they're moving the tests out of Tempest doesn't mean their guidelines are suddenly invalidated | 15:56 |
| akerr | i think thats a separate discussion bswartz | 15:56 |
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| bswartz | yeah but the enforcement will get a lot harder | 15:57 |
| dustins | Then we bring that upon ourselves (and I don't mind being that liason) | 15:57 |
| bswartz | I'm all for conforming, but openstack-qa doesn't review our tests | 15:57 |
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| vponomaryov | dustins: it is toooo expensive to create separate share for each test that requires share | 15:57 |
| akerr | Lack of outside enforcement isn't a valid reason to lower our standards | 15:57 |
| bswartz | dustins: https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/CrossProjectLiaisons#QA | 15:58 |
| dustins | akerr: +100 | 15:58 |
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| ameade | lets focus on specific issues as they come up and try to do a better job | 15:58 |
| dustins | vponomaryov: But having multiple tests fail because of an issue in one makes it difficult to find where the true problem lies | 15:58 |
| cknight | dustins: +1 | 15:58 |
| cknight | vponomaryov: How much slower are the gate tests if we create a share per test? | 15:59 |
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| bswartz | cknight: that's my question too | 15:59 |
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| bswartz | I worry they'll get 10x slower | 15:59 |
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| ganso_ | they are already displaying timeouts ocasionally | 15:59 |
| vponomaryov | cknight: hundreds percent | 15:59 |
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| dustins | What's the point of doing them faster if by doing so we make the results less useful to the folks that fix the bugs they find? | 16:00 |
| ameade | it's easy to find out if dustins writes the patch | 16:00 |
| cknight | ameade: +1 :-) | 16:00 |
| bswartz | let's take this tempest discussion over to #openstack-manila, we need to vacate this room | 16:00 |
| dustins | ameade: I have no problem with that | 16:00 |
| akerr | ameade: +1 | 16:00 |
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| angdraug | o/ | 16:00 |
| bswartz | I want to keep having this discussion | 16:00 |
| vponomaryov | ameade: it will have timeout failure ^_^ | 16:00 |
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| ameade | dustins: not to sign you up :P | 16:00 |
| evgenyl | hi | 16:00 |
| vponomaryov | ameade: from CI | 16:00 |
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| akerr | vponomaryov: that can be bumped | 16:01 |
| bswartz | #endmeeting | 16:01 |
| warpc__ | hi | 16:01 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 16:01 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Thu Aug 13 16:01:02 2015 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 16:01 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/manila/2015/manila.2015-08-13-15.00.html | 16:01 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/manila/2015/manila.2015-08-13-15.00.txt | 16:01 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/manila/2015/manila.2015-08-13-15.00.log.html | 16:01 |
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| kozhukalov | #startmeeting Fuel | 16:01 |
| openstack | Meeting started Thu Aug 13 16:01:10 2015 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is kozhukalov. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 16:01 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 16:01 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: Fuel)" | 16:01 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'fuel' | 16:01 |
| bswartz | sorry fuel guys, we'll get out | 16:01 |
| kozhukalov | #chair kozhukalov | 16:01 |
| mihgen | hi | 16:01 |
| openstack | Current chairs: kozhukalov | 16:01 |
| prmtl | hey | 16:01 |
| amaksimov | hi | 16:01 |
| angdraug | \o | 16:01 |
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| kozhukalov | hey everyone | 16:01 |
| warpc__ | hi | 16:01 |
| evgenyl | hi | 16:01 |
| alex_didenko | hi | 16:01 |
| mwhahaha | hi | 16:01 |
| dmitryme | рш | 16:01 |
| dmitryme | hi | 16:01 |
| nurla | hi | 16:01 |
| SheenaG | Hi | 16:01 |
| mattymo_ | aloha | 16:01 |
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| kozhukalov | #topic Ubuntu-based bootstrap (msemenov) | 16:01 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Ubuntu-based bootstrap (msemenov) (Meeting topic: Fuel)" | 16:02 | |
| msemenov | hi all | 16:02 |
| msemenov | Ubuntu bootstrap feature needs more testing right now. I've just written email to openstack-dev about it. | 16:02 |
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| msemenov | Currently, we have 2 bugs from scale team: | 16:02 |
| ashtokolov | hi | 16:02 |
| xenolog13 | \~/ | 16:02 |
| msemenov | https://bugs.launchpad.net/mos/+bug/1482049 | 16:02 |
| openstack | Launchpad bug 1482049 in Mirantis OpenStack "Ubuntu boostrap uses wrong network interface to retrive the root filesystem image" [High,In progress] - Assigned to Alexei Sheplyakov (asheplyakov) | 16:02 |
| uvirtbot | Launchpad bug 1482049 in mos "Ubuntu boostrap uses wrong network interface to retrive the root filesystem image" [High,In progress] | 16:02 |
| uvirtbot | Launchpad bug 1482049 in mos "Ubuntu boostrap uses wrong network interface to retrive the root filesystem image" [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1482049 | 16:02 |
| msemenov | https://bugs.launchpad.net/fuel/+bug/1481721 | 16:02 |
| openstack | Launchpad bug 1481721 in Fuel for OpenStack "Only 100 of 200 nodes booted successfully with Ubuntu based bootstrap" [High,In progress] - Assigned to Alexei Sheplyakov (asheplyakov) | 16:02 |
| msemenov | and we have added bvt_with_ubuntu_botstrap to SWARM: | 16:02 |
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| msemenov | http://jenkins-product.srt.mirantis.net:8080/job/7.0.system_test.ubuntu.bvt_ubuntu_bootstrap/ | 16:02 |
| uvirtbot | Launchpad bug 1481721 in fuel "Only 100 of 200 nodes booted successfully with Ubuntu based bootstrap" [High,In progress] | 16:02 |
| uvirtbot | Launchpad bug 1481721 in fuel "Only 100 of 200 nodes booted successfully with Ubuntu based bootstrap" [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1481721 | 16:02 |
| msemenov | so, we need to test more, please help us. | 16:03 |
| sgolovatiuk | hi | 16:03 |
| msemenov | on the next week we want to switch swarm tests to the new ubuntu bootstrap | 16:03 |
| mihgen | msemenov: bugs sound pretty serios | 16:03 |
| kozhukalov | msemenov, do you mean we need manual testing? | 16:03 |
| msemenov | becasue we have only 2 weeks left to decide whether to amke Ubuntu bootstrap by default or not | 16:03 |
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| mihgen | first one is perhaps fixed? | 16:03 |
| msemenov | mihgen: but unreproducible right now | 16:04 |
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| mihgen | I'd vote for enabling it by default then if we can't reproduce bugs and there are no known blockers | 16:04 |
| msemenov | kozhukalov: yes, we need everyone just try to deploy (switch to new bootstrap) on the different hardware. Especially partners and plugin developers. | 16:04 |
| mihgen | which would prevent us from testing other functionality | 16:04 |
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| angdraug | mihgen: then -> when? | 16:05 |
| mihgen | the only way is to just force everyone by making it default ) | 16:05 |
| msemenov | mihgen: yes, only by switching is to default right now can give us big amount of testing | 16:05 |
| msemenov | mihgen: so, if you approve, Alexei will prepare a chrequest | 16:05 |
| mihgen | angdraug: ? I'm saying that we should rather switch now | 16:06 |
| mihgen | I'd like to hear other opinions | 16:06 |
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| angdraug | how much will it disrupt swarm? | 16:06 |
| mihgen | any objections? | 16:06 |
| kozhukalov | +1 for switching right now, early - better | 16:06 |
| angdraug | anyone from QA? | 16:06 |
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| kozhukalov | nurla, around? | 16:07 |
| msemenov | I had a conversation with nurla today. Main concern from her side is partners and plugin devs | 16:07 |
| angdraug | I don't object, as long as it doesn't cause bvt disruption or swarm regression | 16:07 |
| msemenov | so, we decided to post it to openstack-dev | 16:07 |
| angdraug | do we have plugins that rely on centos based bootstrap? | 16:08 |
| nurla | I prefer to use by default in 7.0 centos bootstrap and make switch only in 8/.0 | 16:08 |
| kozhukalov | angdraug, probably mlnx | 16:08 |
| nurla | we have other team that use custom centos bootstrap | 16:08 |
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| msemenov | I can ping mlnx guys | 16:08 |
| mihgen | which team? they still have time to switch | 16:09 |
| msemenov | any others? | 16:09 |
| kozhukalov | angdraug, they built their custom bootstrap, as far as i remember | 16:09 |
| mihgen | also, we don't remove centos, do we? | 16:09 |
| mihgen | so it would be easy to enable if someone needs it | 16:09 |
| msemenov | mihgen: correct | 16:09 |
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| angdraug | nurla: what about bvt and swarm? what's the expected impact? | 16:10 |
| mihgen | I don't know why would we slow down a change .. we bettter try and then see who complains | 16:10 |
| msemenov | +1 | 16:10 |
| mihgen | we don't even know who could be broken now | 16:10 |
| nurla | I need talk with my engineer | 16:10 |
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| mihgen | so folks - what's the decision? we've got to move on | 16:11 |
| nurla | we should write code for switching, actually we haven't such functionality in swarm | 16:11 |
| kozhukalov | ok, it looks like we are pretty done on this topic | 16:11 |
| kozhukalov | moving on? | 16:11 |
| mihgen | nurla: what code? | 16:11 |
| mihgen | why do you need to write anything in swarm? | 16:11 |
| msemenov | nurla: but from customer's side, we already wrote a script for switching | 16:11 |
| msemenov | and also you can do it in fuelmenu | 16:12 |
| nurla | for switching from centos to ubuntu bootstrap | 16:12 |
| mihgen | swarm should not be even aware if it's centos or anything else | 16:12 |
| mihgen | you just pxeboot and get what's given by default | 16:12 |
| nurla | we use Alexey's patch for switching, it isn't production way | 16:12 |
| msemenov | nurla: mihgen but it seems, we are speaking now about making Ubuntu bootstrap default. | 16:13 |
| mihgen | kozhukalov: msemenov Do we have code in master for switching on live fuel master? | 16:13 |
| angdraug | one impact I can think of is more time to generate the bootstrap image for each master deploy test | 16:13 |
| msemenov | mihgen: yes | 16:13 |
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| msemenov | steps are the following | 16:14 |
| msemenov | 1. Make sure the master node can access Ubuntu (http://archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu) and MOS (http://mirror.fuel-infra.org/mos-repos) APT repositories. | 16:14 |
| msemenov | 2. Run the following command on the master node: | 16:14 |
| msemenov | fuel-bootstrap-image-set ubuntu | 16:14 |
| msemenov | 3. Just in a case restart dnsmasq: | 16:14 |
| msemenov | dockerctl shell cobbler service dnsmasq restart | 16:14 |
| mihgen | angdraug: we could pregenerate one for our tests.. but this is where it will take some QA resources | 16:14 |
| msemenov | 4. Reboot the slave nodes. | 16:14 |
| msemenov | just for information | 16:14 |
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| angdraug | actually I think we already abosrbed this impact | 16:14 |
| angdraug | absorbed | 16:14 |
| kozhukalov | mihgen, live fuel master? i don't even understand this | 16:14 |
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| angdraug | correct me if I'm wrong: we're generating the ubuntu bootstrap even though it's not used by default | 16:15 |
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| msemenov | angdraug: yes | 16:15 |
| angdraug | kozhukalov: he means, change it after master node is deployed | 16:15 |
| kozhukalov | angdraug, correct | 16:15 |
| angdraug | folks, 15 minutes -- lets move on | 16:15 |
| msemenov | and yes, we can change it after deploy - steps are above | 16:15 |
| nurla | feature with Critical priority should not affect GA in whole | 16:16 |
| msemenov | ok, so Alexei will prepare a request for making ubuntu-based bootstrap by default | 16:16 |
| msemenov | and I'll write to mos-dev about merge | 16:16 |
| msemenov | ok? | 16:16 |
| kozhukalov | this image is built during master node deployment, as far as i understand, after deployment we can again run fuelmenu and choose another bootstrap flavour | 16:16 |
| kozhukalov | and then redeploy | 16:16 |
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| kozhukalov | it'll changed cobbler configuration so it points out on ubuntu profile | 16:17 |
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| kozhukalov | ubuntu bootstrap profile | 16:17 |
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| kozhukalov | moving on | 16:17 |
| kozhukalov | #topic CentOS 6.6 based Fuel Master (amnk) | 16:18 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "CentOS 6.6 based Fuel Master (amnk) (Meeting topic: Fuel)" | 16:18 | |
| kozhukalov | this patch has been merged | 16:18 |
| amnk | yep | 16:18 |
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| angdraug | is there any outstanding impact or cleanup that still needs to be done? | 16:18 |
| amnk | no | 16:18 |
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| angdraug | that was quick :) | 16:18 |
| kozhukalov | so, we are on 6.6 now | 16:18 |
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| angdraug | moving on? | 16:18 |
| amnk | yep, we are on 6.6 | 16:18 |
| mihgen | amnk: please check documentation... I'm sure there refs to 6.5 still | 16:18 |
| mihgen | amnk: thank you for this work | 16:19 |
| angdraug | +1 | 16:19 |
| amnk | mihgen: ok, I'll double-check it | 16:19 |
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| kozhukalov | #action amnk checks references in docs on 6.5 | 16:19 |
| kozhukalov | moving on | 16:19 |
| kozhukalov | #topic SSL support status (sbog) | 16:19 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "SSL support status (sbog) (Meeting topic: Fuel)" | 16:19 | |
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| kozhukalov | sbog, around? | 16:20 |
| kozhukalov | looks like he's not here | 16:20 |
| kozhukalov | moving on | 16:20 |
| mihgen | sbog: ^^ | 16:20 |
| kozhukalov | #topic Trove plugin plans (bmidgley) | 16:21 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Trove plugin plans (bmidgley) (Meeting topic: Fuel)" | 16:21 | |
| flamebot | hi all | 16:21 |
| kozhukalov | hi | 16:21 |
| flamebot | sorry I came in with a different id, I’m bmidgley | 16:21 |
| flamebot | not a bo | 16:21 |
| flamebot | bot | 16:21 |
| mihgen | :) | 16:21 |
| flamebot | so I saw mihgen in https://bugs.launchpad.net/fuel/+bug/1403384 saying that trove in fuel would be entirely customer driven | 16:21 |
| openstack | Launchpad bug 1403384 in Fuel for OpenStack "Create Trove plugin for Fuel" [Medium,Invalid] - Assigned to sbartel (samuel-bartel) | 16:21 |
| uvirtbot | Launchpad bug 1403384 in fuel "Create Trove plugin for Fuel" [Medium,Invalid] | 16:21 |
| uvirtbot | Launchpad bug 1403384 in fuel "Create Trove plugin for Fuel" [Medium,Invalid] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1403384 | 16:21 |
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| flamebot | is that the current place we are at? | 16:22 |
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| flamebot | we need to build it in our MOS cloud, investigating options | 16:22 |
| angdraug | do you need trove, or dbaas? | 16:22 |
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| flamebot | we want trove so we get the db management too | 16:23 |
| mihgen | flamebot: sounds like it is. Anyone from partners team? | 16:23 |
| angdraug | iirc dbaas can be achieved via murano | 16:23 |
| flamebot | we are actually investigating that in a parallel track but people are asking for trove management | 16:23 |
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| mihgen | I have not heard if anyone else wants to work on Trove plugin... | 16:24 |
| Irina_p | flamebot: this is the 1st time I hear about this plugin | 16:24 |
| mihgen | so looks like it's yours :) Do you have any issues with trying to build it yourself? | 16:24 |
| flamebot | several paths are set out | 16:25 |
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| flamebot | plugin, package | 16:25 |
| mihgen | looks like there would be needed a trove package and some deployment puppet code | 16:25 |
| SheenaG | flamebot: first I'm hearing too, although Irina_p usually knows before I do ;-) | 16:25 |
| flamebot | ipackage is preferred for upstream inclusion? | 16:25 |
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| mihgen | ipackage? | 16:26 |
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| mihgen | so the question is do you need trove package to be in fuel/mos packages mirrors? | 16:26 |
| flamebot | typo, just making sure uncertified plugin was the ideal target | 16:26 |
| mihgen | you could create package yourself and deliver it as part of package | 16:27 |
| mihgen | and you can actually certify plugin afterwards | 16:27 |
| mihgen | Irina_P: we don't have any limitations on whether package has to be on our mirrors or as part of the plugin, do we? | 16:27 |
| angdraug | mihgen: we don't | 16:27 |
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| angdraug | plugin can include its own package repo | 16:28 |
| Irina_p | flamebot: we could do code review and check if everything is okay..then you could put it into DriverLog or to fuel-infra | 16:28 |
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| mihgen | flamebot: so I think for this type of extensition, pluggable architecture just fits the best | 16:28 |
| Irina_p | flamebot: and sure - get this validated by us | 16:28 |
| flamebot | ok we are parsing this :) | 16:29 |
| kozhukalov | Irina_p, what about testing? | 16:29 |
| kozhukalov | are we going to run tests on mos ci? | 16:29 |
| Irina_p | kozhukalov: we could put this into DriverLog/fuel-infra if flamebot at least runs some baseline tests | 16:30 |
| Irina_p | kozhukalov: plugins should have their own CI or at least manual testing performed | 16:30 |
| kozhukalov | Irina_p, thanx for clarifiction | 16:30 |
| kozhukalov | moving on? | 16:30 |
| kozhukalov | #topic RabbitMQ (dmitryme) | 16:31 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "RabbitMQ (dmitryme) (Meeting topic: Fuel)" | 16:31 | |
| mihgen | flamebot: feel free to ask questions in openstack-dev if any.. | 16:31 |
| Irina_p | flamebot: feel free to ask in fuel-dev then about details, will be happy to help | 16:31 |
| dmitryme | hello guys, should I tell you our current status? | 16:31 |
| flamebot | thanks | 16:31 |
| mihgen | yeah or in #fuel-dev IRC | 16:31 |
| dmitryme | * status on RabbitMQ | 16:31 |
| kozhukalov | dmitryme, yes, please | 16:31 |
| kozhukalov | if you have | 16:31 |
| dmitryme | sure | 16:32 |
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| dmitryme | RabbitMQ 3.5.4 was merged last Saturday. Before that we ran tests with custom ISO with new RabbitMQ on 50-nodes lab and didn’t spot any degradation of behaviour | 16:32 |
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| dmitryme | so, basically that is it. Starting from this week all new ISOs contain new RabbitMQ | 16:33 |
| SheenaG | Have there been any QA issues related to this merge that you know of? | 16:33 |
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| kozhukalov | what are the main pros of using new Rabbit? | 16:34 |
| kozhukalov | HA? | 16:34 |
| dmitryme | the main advantage is that we get the freshest fixes + we community support | 16:34 |
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| dmitryme | community is not really interested in discussing issues in old RabbitMQ | 16:35 |
| dmitryme | * we _get_ community support | 16:35 |
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| kozhukalov | dmitryme, ok, i see | 16:35 |
| kozhukalov | thanx for your update | 16:35 |
| kozhukalov | any q here? | 16:35 |
| kozhukalov | moving on | 16:35 |
| SheenaG | mihgen: discussion yesterday re: RMQ, do we need to follow a SCF exception process next time? | 16:36 |
| mihgen | SheenaG: yes we certainly need to ask for exception next time. | 16:36 |
| mihgen | no major pkgs upgrades should be done after FF | 16:36 |
| dmitryme | mihgen: we will definitely do that | 16:36 |
| SheenaG | Okay, noted. Anything after FF we will raise an exception to openstack-dev. | 16:36 |
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| mihgen | thanks. | 16:36 |
| mihgen | I hope that our HA will become even better with new MQ :) | 16:37 |
| sgolovatiuk | RMQ 3.5.4 is much more stable | 16:37 |
| kozhukalov | #topic Keystone wsgi issues | 16:37 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Keystone wsgi issues (Meeting topic: Fuel)" | 16:37 | |
| sgolovatiuk | many many fixes were added, and it's durable queues works as expected by design | 16:37 |
| mihgen | I'm looking for some conrete numbers on downtime in sec, etc... | 16:37 |
| sgolovatiuk | Guys, we have bunch of problems with WSGI | 16:37 |
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| kozhukalov | sgolovatiuk, bugs, links? | 16:38 |
| sgolovatiuk | we have process based WSGI, which creates huge amount of connections to MySQL and memcache | 16:38 |
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| mihgen | I remember we had to revert it in 6.1... | 16:38 |
| sgolovatiuk | all reviews are linked https://review.openstack.org/#/c/209589/3 | 16:38 |
| mihgen | sgolovatiuk: was it discussed with Keystone team / puppet-openstack? | 16:38 |
| sgolovatiuk | bugs are included | 16:39 |
| sgolovatiuk | also wsgi blocks apache, sometimes it doesn't want to stop | 16:39 |
| sgolovatiuk | just hanging | 16:39 |
| sgolovatiuk | we made an amount of reviews, that should fix apache probles | 16:40 |
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| sgolovatiuk | I am testing all of them on custome ISO | 16:40 |
| sgolovatiuk | Over weekend scale team will test it on scale | 16:40 |
| angdraug | +1 to mihgen, who did you talk to about this? | 16:40 |
| sgolovatiuk | if there no any improvements, we'll be reverting it back to eventlet | 16:41 |
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| sgolovatiuk | mihgen: I am working with A. Makarov and B. Bobrov | 16:41 |
| sgolovatiuk | they made fix for WSGI module | 16:41 |
| sgolovatiuk | added critical section | 16:41 |
| mihgen | sgolovatiuk: +1 on a plan but only if you guys discuss it with keystone upstream | 16:42 |
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| sgolovatiuk | it looks like helped with threaded based model as well as apache stop operations | 16:42 |
| sgolovatiuk | anyhow, I am working with them to provide stable keystone service under Apache WSGI | 16:42 |
| sgolovatiuk | I will have more results after rully and destructive tests we are going to do on scale lab over weekend | 16:43 |
| sgolovatiuk | rally* | 16:43 |
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| kozhukalov | i think mihgen means that your cooperation with those guys should be reflected in ml or at least in irc logs | 16:45 |
| mihgen | sgolovatiuk: thank you. I hope you guys nail it down.. | 16:45 |
| sgolovatiuk | I hope so :) | 16:45 |
| kozhukalov | ok, moving on | 16:45 |
| kozhukalov | #topic Keystone openrc issues (LP: #1479879) | 16:45 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Keystone openrc issues (LP: #1479879) (Meeting topic: Fuel)" | 16:45 | |
| openstack | Launchpad bug 1479879 in Fuel for OpenStack "fix auth_url in keystone providers for v3/v2.0 api split" [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1479879 - Assigned to Matthew Mosesohn (raytrac3r) | 16:45 |
| uvirtbot | Launchpad bug 1479879 in fuel "fix auth_url in keystone providers for v3/v2.0 api split" [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1479879 | 16:45 |
| uvirtbot | Launchpad bug 1479879 in fuel "fix auth_url in keystone providers for v3/v2.0 api split" [High,In progress] | 16:45 |
| kozhukalov | ohh, keystone again | 16:45 |
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| alex_didenko | :) | 16:46 |
| angdraug | mattymo_: around? | 16:46 |
| amaksimov | let me ping him | 16:46 |
| mattymo_ | angdraug, yes sorry for delay | 16:46 |
| mattymo_ | amaksimov, no worries | 16:46 |
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| mattymo_ | so it seems that there is a healthy debate on openstack-dev and on the puppet-keystone review for how we should approach openrc/env vars being set and then trying to create keystone_* resources | 16:47 |
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| mattymo_ | several folks believe that internalurl and publicurl should be set in the service catalog with no version in keystone... but that so far doesn't seem to work either | 16:48 |
| mattymo_ | so in the interests of meeting HCF on time, I think we should fork from upstream for this commit until they've decided what is best and what meets the most people's needs | 16:48 |
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| mattymo_ | at the same time, I will continue pushing this patch upstream since it seems to be necessary | 16:49 |
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| kozhukalov | mattymo, thanx for the status | 16:49 |
| mihgen | mattymo_: +1 to fork it, we need to test it before HCF.. | 16:49 |
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| mattymo_ | it's very tested for Fuel's puproses, mihgen , but not enough for acceptance tests upstream | 16:50 |
| mattymo_ | https://review.openstack.org/#/q/topic:bug/1479879,n,z for those of you who want to see the patches | 16:50 |
| mattymo_ | purposes* | 16:50 |
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| kozhukalov | moving on? | 16:51 |
| mattymo_ | yes, please kozhukalov | 16:51 |
| kozhukalov | #topic default network allocation for CEPH-based installations (xenolog) | 16:51 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "default network allocation for CEPH-based installations (xenolog) (Meeting topic: Fuel)" | 16:51 | |
| xenolog13 | hi, guys! | 16:51 |
| xenolog13 | I want ask about storage network and its usage | 16:52 |
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| xenolog13 | In the 7.0 we have admin, management, public, storage networks by default. | 16:52 |
| xenolog13 | If CEPH-based deploy was chosen, storage network for ceph replication | 16:52 |
| xenolog13 | and management for ceph-public (access from VM to NBD) will be used. | 16:52 |
| xenolog13 | Do we need change this default scheme in 7.0? | 16:52 |
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| xenolog13 | Some people complain, why storage traffic goes through management network | 16:53 |
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| angdraug | can we now have 2 storage networks in 7.0? | 16:53 |
| xenolog13 | not | 16:54 |
| angdraug | so what exactly can we change? | 16:54 |
| xenolog13 | We can leave all as is. | 16:54 |
| xenolog13 | Or change default scheme | 16:54 |
| angdraug | moving RBD client traffic to storage network and combining it with RADOS replication traffic isn't recommended by Ceph | 16:54 |
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| xenolog13 | yes. | 16:55 |
| mihgen | can we have at least example templates which would do the right schema | 16:55 |
| alex_didenko | there was a problem with cluster/rabbit/HA glitches due to overload of management network by VM to RDB traffic | 16:55 |
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| angdraug | in the most typical case with dedicated compute and ceph-osd nodes, | 16:56 |
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| angdraug | computes don't need rados replication so they can use storage for rbd traffic | 16:56 |
| kozhukalov | why can't we have two storage networks? | 16:56 |
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| angdraug | ceph-osd nodes don't need public, so they can use that for rbd traffic | 16:56 |
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| angdraug | can we provide a template that does different role allocation for compute and osd nodes? | 16:57 |
| xenolog13 | May be "move ceph public traffic to the storage network" checkbox in the settings tab is a solution for 7.0 ? | 16:57 |
| angdraug | different network _role_ allocation... | 16:57 |
| angdraug | xenolog13: that's stealing from Peter to feed Paul... | 16:57 |
| kozhukalov | 2 minutes | 16:58 |
| angdraug | +1 to kozhukalov's question, why can't we add a new network type yet? is it out of scope of network templates in 7.0? | 16:58 |
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| angdraug | and time :( | 16:59 |
| xenolog13 | because SCF was done | 16:59 |
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| mihgen | yeah I'd say it is too late for any major changes | 16:59 |
| kozhukalov | ok, let's move out discussion somewhere else | 16:59 |
| mihgen | so I vote for providig better docs, and template example.. | 16:59 |
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| mihgen | so people can use templated networking if needed | 16:59 |
| kozhukalov | thanx everyone for attending | 16:59 |
| kozhukalov | closing | 16:59 |
| kozhukalov | #endmeeting | 17:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 17:00 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Thu Aug 13 17:00:08 2015 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 17:00 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/fuel/2015/fuel.2015-08-13-16.01.html | 17:00 |
| tmcpeak | o/ | 17:00 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/fuel/2015/fuel.2015-08-13-16.01.txt | 17:00 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/fuel/2015/fuel.2015-08-13-16.01.log.html | 17:00 |
| IvanKliuk | bye! | 17:00 |
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| dg_ | evening all | 17:00 |
| xenolog13 | \_/ | 17:00 |
| tmcpeak | #startmeeting security | 17:00 |
| openstack | Meeting started Thu Aug 13 17:00:29 2015 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is tmcpeak. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 17:00 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 17:00 |
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| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: security)" | 17:00 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'security' | 17:00 |
| Daviey | \o | 17:00 |
| tmcpeak | #charit hyakuhei | 17:00 |
| tmcpeak | #chair hyakuhei | 17:00 |
| openstack | Warning: Nick not in channel: hyakuhei | 17:00 |
| michaelxin | hello | 17:00 |
| openstack | Current chairs: hyakuhei tmcpeak | 17:00 |
| tmcpeak | hey everybody | 17:00 |
| bknudson | hi | 17:01 |
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| elmiko | hiyo/ | 17:01 |
| sicarie | hello | 17:01 |
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| tmcpeak | hyakuhei is out doing sales stuff, but he said he'll try to make it, subject to availability of n3tz on the road | 17:01 |
| tmcpeak | #topic Roll Call | 17:01 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Roll Call (Meeting topic: security)" | 17:01 | |
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| sicarie | o/ | 17:01 |
| bknudson | hi | 17:01 |
| tmcpeak | o/ | 17:01 |
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| michaelxin | o/ | 17:01 |
| tmcpeak | sweet | 17:01 |
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| tmcpeak | so just a reminder, we have an agenda for each meeting here: https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings/OpenStackSecurity which bknudson has showed us how to use with his agenda item | 17:02 |
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| elmiko | very nice | 17:02 |
| sigmavirus24 | o/ | 17:02 |
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| tmcpeak | hey sigma | 17:02 |
| tmcpeak | so let's get right on into it | 17:02 |
| michaelxin | nice | 17:02 |
| tmcpeak | #topic Anchor | 17:02 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Anchor (Meeting topic: security)" | 17:02 | |
| tmcpeak | tkelsey, dg_, Daviey | 17:03 |
| dg_ | anchor is awesome, you shold have it in your cloud | 17:03 |
| elmiko | lol, nice | 17:03 |
| Daviey | You should also have it in your devstack! | 17:03 |
| tmcpeak | excellent, next topic :D | 17:03 |
| elmiko | haha | 17:03 |
| michaelxin | haha | 17:03 |
| michaelxin | will try for sure | 17:03 |
| Daviey | dg_: Have you any more comments on the devstack branch? | 17:03 |
| tmcpeak | anything you guys want to mention this week? | 17:04 |
| dg_ | hopefully coming soon to Octavia as the default pki, Ive been working with some of the cores trying to get it integrated | 17:04 |
| dg_ | daviey Ive not looked at it further, its on my list to play with further | 17:04 |
| tmcpeak | very cool | 17:04 |
| Daviey | #link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Octavia | 17:04 |
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| tmcpeak | ty Daviey (saved me the Googles) | 17:04 |
| Daviey | dg_: Ok, reach out to me if/when you do pls. | 17:04 |
| redrobot | o/ | 17:05 |
| dg_ | tkelsey and I have spent the last couple of days playing with devstack for something else, so we are getting more familiar with it, probably take a look at it next week | 17:05 |
| tmcpeak | hello Mr. redrobot | 17:05 |
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| Daviey | dg_: Yeah, i saw the barbican interest | 17:05 |
| dg_ | daviey for sure | 17:05 |
| Daviey | EOF | 17:05 |
| tmcpeak | cool | 17:05 |
| tmcpeak | #topic Bandit | 17:05 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Bandit (Meeting topic: security)" | 17:05 | |
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| tmcpeak | we've got a new Bandit (0.13.1) in response to the good point that we weren't handling missing config very well | 17:06 |
| tmcpeak | specifically we were spamming exceptions | 17:06 |
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| tmcpeak | Daviey got it fixed up last week and yesterday we pushed the new version to PyPI | 17:06 |
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| tmcpeak | browne also wrote a cool new plugin for short keysizes in cryptos | 17:06 |
| Daviey | tmcpeak: Does there need to be a release announcement ? | 17:07 |
| tmcpeak | that will wait for 0.14.0 as sigmavirus24 points out, we shouldn't be dropping new plugins in point releases | 17:07 |
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| tmcpeak | Daviey: probs not, it just fixes crap behavior, would rather not call it out :) | 17:07 |
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| Daviey | heh | 17:07 |
| tmcpeak | I dunno, I'm open to suggestions | 17:07 |
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| Daviey | tmcpeak: Are we seeing any more adoption at gates? | 17:08 |
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| tkelsey | bah, sorry im late! | 17:08 |
| tkelsey | what i miss? | 17:08 |
| tmcpeak | a few non-voting jobs thanks to browne and.. somebody else, can't remember ATM | 17:08 |
| tmcpeak | tkelsey: we've got a handle on this security thing | 17:08 |
| tmcpeak | we can all go home | 17:09 |
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| sigmavirus24 | lol | 17:09 |
| tkelsey | tmcpeak: sounds good to me, same time next week then | 17:09 |
| tmcpeak | yep yep | 17:09 |
| elmiko | not openstack related, but i am giving a tech talk on bandit at red hat next week =) | 17:09 |
| tmcpeak | elmiko: sweet! | 17:09 |
| bknudson | here's the output in keystone with latest bandit: http://logs.openstack.org/20/208620/10/check/gate-keystone-tox-bandit/d7698f9/console.html#_2015-08-13_13_14_16_081 | 17:09 |
| sigmavirus24 | elmiko: I'm giving one on it tonight at the local UG | 17:09 |
| tkelsey | elmiko: awesome | 17:09 |
| elmiko | sigmavirus24: ^5 | 17:09 |
| sigmavirus24 | although the talk is about code quality tools in general | 17:09 |
| sigmavirus24 | ^5 | 17:09 |
| michaelxin | sigmavirus24: elmiko +1 | 17:09 |
| tmcpeak | yeah sweet guys! | 17:10 |
| tmcpeak | spread the word :) | 17:10 |
| elmiko | trying =) | 17:10 |
| tkelsey | bknudson: looks good, anything out of place from your perspective? | 17:10 |
| Daviey | sigmavirus24: Hopefully this won't be an example of bad code! | 17:10 |
| bknudson | nope, looks good. | 17:10 |
| tkelsey | bknudson: awesome :) | 17:10 |
| sigmavirus24 | lol | 17:10 |
| sigmavirus24 | no it won't | 17:10 |
| tmcpeak | bknudson: I always give preferential testing to the Keystone properties before release | 17:10 |
| sigmavirus24 | Daviey: it'll be used to improve code-q | 17:11 |
| tmcpeak | since you guys have voting gates | 17:11 |
| bknudson | it says when the run started but doesn't say when the run ended | 17:11 |
| tmcpeak | but it's top of my list to get automation for all the gate projects | 17:11 |
| bknudson | (not sure why either one is all that interesting to log) | 17:11 |
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| tmcpeak | bknudson: not particularly unless you're super concerned with performance | 17:11 |
| tmcpeak | cool, so that's probs good for Bandit this week, keep on keeping on | 17:12 |
| tmcpeak | #topic Sec Guide | 17:12 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Sec Guide (Meeting topic: security)" | 17:12 | |
| tmcpeak | sicarie, elmiko, Daviey, pdesai | 17:12 |
| sicarie | So the migration to RST is complete | 17:12 |
| Daviey | \o/ | 17:12 |
| tmcpeak | mwahahahahaha | 17:12 |
| elmiko | whoop whoop | 17:12 |
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| sicarie | Awesome work from everyone | 17:12 |
| tmcpeak | I mean, awesome! :) | 17:12 |
| Daviey | #link http://docs.openstack.org/security-guide/ | 17:12 |
| sicarie | http://docs.openstack.org/security-guide/ | 17:12 |
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| sicarie | the 'Warning' there is getting removed as soon as we get a doc core +2 | 17:13 |
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| elmiko | the commit to delete the xml files was actually delicious | 17:13 |
| sicarie | +1 | 17:13 |
| tmcpeak | it's… it's.. beautiful | 17:13 |
| elmiko | hehe | 17:13 |
| dg_ | +1 | 17:13 |
| Daviey | sigmavirus24: Anne questioned if we should be advertising liberty coverage in docs yet? | 17:13 |
| Daviey | err sicarie ^ | 17:13 |
| sigmavirus24 | hah | 17:13 |
| sigmavirus24 | tab complete is not your friend | 17:13 |
| Daviey | Inflippindeed | 17:13 |
| elmiko | oh, and we have yet to address the current LuLu print and future pdf plans, unless sicarie addressed it already | 17:14 |
| sicarie | Daviey: if it's not released, I'm not a fan of promoting it | 17:14 |
| sicarie | I think we should keep an eye on it and open bugs for coverage, but I also don't know anything liberty specific we'd need to include at this point | 17:14 |
| sicarie | elmiko: yes, I've been chatting with Anne and Lana about that | 17:14 |
| elmiko | sicarie: awesome =) | 17:15 |
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| Daviey | We learned that LuLu was not insignificant sales.. which surprised me | 17:15 |
| sicarie | I need to validate the tooling - it might take docbook, in which case our leaf version will be the current XML :( | 17:15 |
| tmcpeak | how much? | 17:15 |
| elmiko | Daviey: +1 | 17:15 |
| sicarie | (might ONLY take docbook) | 17:15 |
| Daviey | tmcpeak: Numbers TBC, i'll dig out the comment | 17:15 |
| elmiko | sicarie: ouch.. | 17:16 |
| tmcpeak | does that just cover printing cost or it go to the openstack foundation in some way? | 17:16 |
| sicarie | elmiko: agreed | 17:16 |
| elmiko | just when i thought i had escaped xml, it drags me back in.... | 17:16 |
| sicarie | tmcpeak: there is a charge to update content, and then I'd imagine that some of the profits go towards cost of printing, but that is all foundation stuff | 17:16 |
| sicarie | elmiko: at this point, I'm in favor of updating it, and then adding a disclaimer and opening a ticket against the docs team :) | 17:17 |
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| tmcpeak | ahh cool | 17:17 |
| Daviey | (tmcpeak: In May 2015, 20 were sold.) | 17:17 |
| elmiko | sicarie: that sounds fair | 17:17 |
| tmcpeak | that's pretty solid | 17:17 |
| sicarie | So that's my action for the week | 17:17 |
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| tmcpeak | cool | 17:17 |
| sicarie | As long as I don't forget - I'm still digging out from my inbox | 17:17 |
| sicarie | though I'm almost done | 17:17 |
| tmcpeak | #topic Security Notes | 17:17 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Security Notes (Meeting topic: security)" | 17:17 | |
| tmcpeak | nkinder: you around today? | 17:18 |
| elmiko | i think we need a OSSN triage day or something | 17:18 |
| tmcpeak | looks like not | 17:18 |
| Daviey | I've made no progress with my inflight OSSN this week. I suck. | 17:18 |
| tmcpeak | yeah, so elmiko was pointing out we have some murky OSSN's | 17:18 |
| elmiko | i looked through several of the open ones to find a new target, and there is no clear winner. i think we need to make sure they are all viable for notes | 17:18 |
| tmcpeak | we should definitely triage some of these | 17:19 |
| Daviey | elmiko: Wait, the open OSSN's might not all need docs? | 17:19 |
| tmcpeak | this one (for example) has been going on forever | 17:19 |
| elmiko | Daviey: imo no, some of them there is no clear path for an OSSN | 17:19 |
| elmiko | or at the least they should be marked as incomplete | 17:19 |
| Daviey | elmiko: Does that need nkinder to prune them? | 17:20 |
| elmiko | Daviey: i think we should probably do an OSSN triage day where we have nkinder and others take a look over them to make sure they are relevent | 17:20 |
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| tmcpeak | elmiko: +1 | 17:21 |
| Daviey | elmiko: sprint topic? | 17:21 |
| elmiko | if we make it a group effort we can probably bust through the lot of them | 17:21 |
| tmcpeak | Daviey: yeah probably a good sprint effor | 17:21 |
| elmiko | Daviey: that would be great | 17:21 |
| tmcpeak | t | 17:21 |
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| elmiko | sadly, i'm thinking i won't be able to attent the mid-cycle, but i would certainly pitch in for a sprint to read them and raise questions | 17:22 |
| tmcpeak | bah, elmiko not making it? | 17:22 |
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| tmcpeak | :( | 17:22 |
| elmiko | tmcpeak: i want to, i just haven't heard back on my requests to attend =( | 17:22 |
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| tmcpeak | we should get a subsprint going with those that can't make it | 17:22 |
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| tmcpeak | to do things like OSSN cleanup, unit tests for Bandit, etc | 17:22 |
| elmiko | there's still hope, but i'm not sure | 17:23 |
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| elmiko | tmcpeak: +1 | 17:23 |
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| tmcpeak | cool, ok | 17:23 |
| tmcpeak | #topic Midcycle | 17:23 |
| michaelxin | elmiko: good luck | 17:23 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Midcycle (Meeting topic: security)" | 17:23 | |
| tmcpeak | not much to say here, I think we're all up to date | 17:23 |
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| tmcpeak | hopefully those that are planning on attending have been able to book their hotel/flights by now | 17:23 |
| tmcpeak | we'll do a self-paid social day at some point, but not sure yet when that will be | 17:24 |
| tmcpeak | we can synch up in person | 17:24 |
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| tmcpeak | we'll also get some directions ready to explain what to do on the first day for those that haven't been to HP Seattle yet | 17:24 |
| michaelxin | what's the address of HP seattle? | 17:25 |
| tmcpeak | also if you have anything you'd like to propose for an agenda item please add it to the etherpad: https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/security-liberty-midcycle | 17:25 |
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| tmcpeak | 701 Pike St, Seattle, WA | 17:25 |
| dg_ | michaelxin hp seattle is in the seattle convention center | 17:25 |
| tmcpeak | I think 9th floor? | 17:25 |
| tmcpeak | sicarie: ^ | 17:25 |
| sicarie | (Suite 900 and zip of 98101) | 17:25 |
| dg_ | tmcpeak yeah | 17:25 |
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| tmcpeak | perfect | 17:25 |
| michaelxin | thanks | 17:25 |
| tmcpeak | we have some good items already on the etherpad | 17:26 |
| dg_ | worry about the details closer to the time, but basically 'convention center' | 17:26 |
| tmcpeak | looks like plenty to keep us busy | 17:26 |
| michaelxin | will check with boss today. | 17:26 |
| tmcpeak | but if you have something else you think would be good for the midcycle, please add it to the topics section | 17:26 |
| tmcpeak | along with your name (if you want to lead it) a brief synopsis, and how much effort you think it will take | 17:26 |
| tmcpeak | michaelxin: great | 17:27 |
| tmcpeak | #topic API Testing | 17:27 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "API Testing (Meeting topic: security)" | 17:27 | |
| tmcpeak | michaelxin: any update here? | 17:27 |
| bknudson | I'll take the monorail. | 17:27 |
| michaelxin | sorry, I just got back from China yesterday and Matt is out of office this week. | 17:28 |
| tmcpeak | ok cool no worries, we'll do an update next week | 17:28 |
| michaelxin | sure. | 17:28 |
| tmcpeak | #topic oslo proposal for privsep daemon library - https://review.openstack.org/#/c/204073 | 17:28 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "oslo proposal for privsep daemon library - https://review.openstack.org/#/c/204073 (Meeting topic: security)" | 17:28 | |
| tmcpeak | bknudson: ^ | 17:28 |
| bknudson | I just wanted to mention it in case security people wanted to look at it. | 17:28 |
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| tmcpeak | this looks promising | 17:29 |
| bknudson | we talked about this at the last ossg meetup | 17:29 |
| tmcpeak | oh | 17:29 |
| tmcpeak | we did? | 17:29 |
| bknudson | as a better implementation of rootwrap | 17:29 |
| tmcpeak | I should go get my head checked I think | 17:29 |
| Daviey | This is really interesting! I've never really been happy with rootwrap | 17:30 |
| sigmavirus24 | bknudson: if we could get that in before glance starts using os-brick... that'd be greaaattt =P | 17:30 |
| elmiko | yea, this spec looks pretty intense | 17:30 |
| elmiko | very cool | 17:30 |
| sigmavirus24 | all I need to hear was "better implementation of rootwrap" | 17:30 |
| elmiko | lol | 17:30 |
| bknudson | picking up rootwrap would be a mistake IMO | 17:31 |
| tmcpeak | +1 intense | 17:31 |
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| Daviey | At least the current one is better than the Eucalyptus C one that was rushed in. | 17:31 |
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| tmcpeak | I'll have to read this properly after the meeting | 17:32 |
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| tmcpeak | cool, ok- so this looks interesting I encourage everybody to read it :) | 17:32 |
| tmcpeak | #topic AOB | 17:32 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "AOB (Meeting topic: security)" | 17:32 | |
| tmcpeak | open floor | 17:32 |
| tmcpeak | sicarie: DC + BH overview? | 17:33 |
| tmcpeak | anything of note for OpenStack pplz? | 17:33 |
| sicarie | Sure, I think my highlight was the "cloud instructor" who was talking about different paradigms and was all excited that "in the cloud, production can change as much as five times a day!" | 17:33 |
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| tmcpeak | haha | 17:34 |
| sicarie | I didn't see anything openstack-related | 17:34 |
| sicarie | And I did try to hit all the cloud talks, even after it was apparent they were a hot mess | 17:34 |
| tmcpeak | I suppose that's good | 17:34 |
| elmiko | sicarie: hot mess in terms of not being that focused, or ...? | 17:35 |
| sicarie | elmiko: they were either all theoretical or they were focused on very fringe firmware versions that did not go across many devices | 17:35 |
| sicarie | Oh | 17:35 |
| sicarie | There was one note - apparently flooding the CAN in OVS breaks all vlans and will allow arbitrary sniffing | 17:35 |
| sicarie | I think that was the most useful bit | 17:36 |
| elmiko | cool | 17:36 |
| michaelxin | sicarie: +1 | 17:36 |
| elmiko | the real question though, did DefCon continue the badge hacking contest? | 17:36 |
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| sicarie | elmiko: yes, but in this case you just added your own stuff on top of the record | 17:36 |
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| tmcpeak | DC badges looked strange this year | 17:37 |
| elmiko | ahh | 17:37 |
| sicarie | I didn't go to the closing ceremonies - I was off at the last technical talk | 17:37 |
| michaelxin | sicarie: Heard car hacking is hot this year. | 17:37 |
| sicarie | michaelxin: there were 3 talks, all SRO | 17:37 |
| sicarie | and a car-hacking village | 17:37 |
| sicarie | I didn't get in there in time to get a badge, though :( | 17:37 |
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| michaelxin | wished I were there. | 17:38 |
| tmcpeak | if anybody hasn't read the whitepaper Charlie Miller and Chris Valasek did on their car hacking you should | 17:38 |
| sicarie | Obviously Valacek's talk was huge, the Tesla one was actually better - they went through what was done right, and all the stuff they had to rip through to get in | 17:38 |
| tmcpeak | it's really good | 17:38 |
| elmiko | ooh car hacking village, very cool | 17:38 |
| sicarie | +1 I sat in with a few people, it was fun | 17:38 |
| michaelxin | what's next? | 17:38 |
| michaelxin | plane hacking village? | 17:39 |
| sicarie | Oh, and the I Will Kill You talk was hysterical | 17:39 |
| elmiko | michaelxin: lol | 17:39 |
| bknudson | liability requirements for software haven't kept up with how it's used | 17:40 |
| tmcpeak | yeah that one was great | 17:40 |
| tmcpeak | hysterical and terrifying in one | 17:40 |
| sicarie | And PenTesting a City | 17:40 |
| sicarie | Though the slides for that one weren't as descriptive as the talk | 17:41 |
| Daviey | was the ring -1 stuff overrated, or was it just me? | 17:41 |
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| sicarie | Daviey: ring -1? | 17:41 |
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| Daviey | sorry, OTP | 17:43 |
| Daviey | nvm | 17:43 |
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| tmcpeak | cool, anything else before we wrap? | 17:44 |
| Daviey | lets go home! | 17:44 |
| tmcpeak | cool | 17:45 |
| tmcpeak | #endmeeting | 17:45 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 17:45 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Thu Aug 13 17:45:30 2015 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 17:45 |
| tmcpeak | thanks everybody! | 17:45 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/security/2015/security.2015-08-13-17.00.html | 17:45 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/security/2015/security.2015-08-13-17.00.txt | 17:45 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/security/2015/security.2015-08-13-17.00.log.html | 17:45 |
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| bknudson | thanks | 17:45 |
| Daviey | thanks tmcpeak | 17:45 |
| elmiko | thanks tmcpeak | 17:45 |
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| michaelxin | Thanks. | 17:46 |
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