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| baoli | #startmeeting PCI passthrough | 13:02 |
|---|---|---|
| openstack | Meeting started Thu Jan 23 13:02:28 2014 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is baoli. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 13:02 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 13:02 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: PCI passthrough)" | 13:02 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'pci_passthrough' | 13:02 |
| baoli | Hi | 13:03 |
| irenab | hi | 13:03 |
| *** heyongli has joined #openstack-meeting-alt | 13:03 | |
| sadasu | Hello! should we set the topic to SR-IOV? | 13:04 |
| baoli | irenab, rkukura is going to join? | 13:04 |
| baoli | #topic SRIOV | 13:05 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "SRIOV (Meeting topic: PCI passthrough)" | 13:05 | |
| irenab | baoli: I hope so. Will ping to check | 13:05 |
| heyongli | hi, | 13:05 |
| sadasu | he mentioned in the ML2 meeting yesterday that he would | 13:05 |
| rkukura | hi | 13:06 |
| sadasu | Welcome! | 13:06 |
| baoli | Hi | 13:06 |
| baoli | Let's get started | 13:06 |
| irenab | rkukura: I have updated the vnic_type neutron plueprint according to our discussion | 13:06 |
| irenab | ^blueprint | 13:07 |
| rkukura | irenab: Great! I'll review it today. | 13:07 |
| baoli | Irenab, pointer to the bp? | 13:07 |
| irenab | just to share with all, the idea is to use port binding:profile for vnic_type and pci details | 13:08 |
| baoli | so binding:profile is another dictionary? | 13:08 |
| irenab | #link https://blueprints.launchpad.net/neutron/+spec/ml2-request-vnic-type | 13:08 |
| rkukura | baoli: Its an existing attribute that is a dictionary | 13:08 |
| irenab | baoli: this is already supported via neutron CLI, so just to add persistency | 13:08 |
| baoli | understood. | 13:09 |
| rkukura | Its part of the portbinding extension, but needs to be implemented in ml2 | 13:09 |
| baoli | rkukura, that sounds good | 13:09 |
| irenab | rkukura: I think to add it as part of supporting this BP | 13:09 |
| rkukura | right | 13:10 |
| sadasu | what changes do we need in ML2 to support vnic_type "pcipassthrough" ? | 13:10 |
| irenab | so, by adding this we add the common layer to propagate and persist attributes to neutron | 13:10 |
| irenab | sadasu: it will be managed by Mech Driver not by plugin | 13:11 |
| irenab | Mech Driver will need to look at binding:profile , check if wnic_type is supported | 13:12 |
| sadasu | ok...just making sure it does not need any special handling at ML2 layer...it will just be passed along to the respective mech driver | 13:12 |
| rkukura | the plugin will persist it and handle the CRUD operations, but it will be interpreted by MechanismDrivers as they attempt to bind the port | 13:12 |
| sadasu | got it | 13:12 |
| irenab | sadasu: and here I guess we will need some general util to parse it with regards to PCI device record details | 13:12 |
| baoli | are you suggesting that only ML2 supports the vmic_type and PCI stuff? I guess that's fine since regular plugins will be deprecated? | 13:13 |
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| irenab | seens it will be needed by both our Drivers | 13:13 |
| irenab | baoli: not sure why to limit it to ML2 only | 13:14 |
| irenab | if there is plugin that wants to support this extension, can add the support | 13:14 |
| sadasu | irenab: both means ML2 mech driver and regular (non-ML2) plugin? | 13:14 |
| irenab | and then will check the vnic_type on plugin layer | 13:14 |
| baoli | irenab, ok, that sounds right | 13:14 |
| rkukura | baoli: The openvswitch and linuxbridge plugins are deprecated. Some other plugins already implement binding:profile, so they should probably be updated to handle the vnic_type key if it makes sense for them. | 13:15 |
| irenab | sadasu: regular do not need to handle PCI device fields | 13:15 |
| baoli | rkukura, sounds good | 13:15 |
| baoli | #topic specify SRIOV | 13:16 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "specify SRIOV (Meeting topic: PCI passthrough)" | 13:16 | |
| baoli | Can we talk about how to specify SRIOV requests from API/CLI? | 13:16 |
| irenab | baoli: API/CLI of nova or neutron? | 13:16 |
| baoli | irenab, both. Let's start from nova | 13:16 |
| rkukura | One other key point on binding:profile - this is being used purely as an input param to neutron/ml2, so a different attribute will be used for output from neutron to the VIF driver. | 13:17 |
| heyongli | nic request for pci should translate to request before scheduler, in API , i think | 13:18 |
| heyongli | and store it in to instance meta data. | 13:18 |
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| sadasu | before the API/CLI, I also wanted to talk about passing the pci_flavor info given in --nic option to neutron | 13:19 |
| irenab | heyongli: right, but then it comes to compute node and allocates specific device | 13:19 |
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| heyongli | irenab: sure, only if conver to request and store in the meta data, all works. | 13:20 |
| heyongli | i had proposed interface to do this in my pathset. | 13:20 |
| baoli | I think that the question is what should be part of the --nic parameters | 13:21 |
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| heyongli | baoli, sure. | 13:21 |
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| irenab | and we need to define what is passed from nova to neutron and vise versa | 13:22 |
| heyongli | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/q/status:abandoned+project:openstack/nova+branch:master+topic:bp/pci-extra-info,n,z | 13:22 |
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| irenab | heyongli: which one do you refer? | 13:23 |
| baoli | vnic-type=“vnic” | “direct” | “macvtap” pci-group=pci-group-name port-profile=port-profile-name. Except that we can change the pci group to pci flavor, I guess. | 13:24 |
| heyongli | baoli, agree. | 13:24 |
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| irenab | baoli: all these --nic options will be possible to defined with binding:profile on port-create | 13:25 |
| baoli | irenab, yes, that's what we have been talking about in all of our docs | 13:25 |
| baoli | But let's start with nova boot | 13:25 |
| irenab | baoli: I missing the question :-) | 13:26 |
| baoli | irenab, what question? The input will be put into the binding:profile. In addition, neutron port-create can use the same parameters | 13:27 |
| irenab | sure, so what do you want to discuss? | 13:28 |
| baoli | well, just to make sure we are on agreement with that, and then we can submit the BP for approval | 13:28 |
| rkukura | One point - if existing port UUID is passed into nova via --nic, nova needs to merge its binding:profile keys with any that already exist when doing the port_update. | 13:29 |
| baoli | rkukura, agreed | 13:29 |
| irenab | agree | 13:29 |
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| baoli | So neutron port-create will have similar parameters. And --nic port-id=sriov-port will populate the binding:profile after geting the infor from neutron | 13:30 |
| irenab | I do not think the pci_flavor should be pushed to port profile, it should be pci slot details, right? | 13:30 |
| baoli | irenab, if a pci-flavor name can correspond to a provider net or physical net, certainly it's useful information in the neutron | 13:31 |
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| irenab | baoli: I mean it can pass, but its not enough, we need the pci device BDF too | 13:32 |
| baoli | irenab, agreed. | 13:32 |
| rkukura | baoli: What do you mean above by " after geting the infor from neutron"? | 13:33 |
| baoli | rkukura, if --nic port-id=srivo-port-uuid is specified, nova will query neutron for port info. So the binding:profile will be returned as part of the query | 13:34 |
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| baoli | irenab, I also think that vendor_id and product_id are useful information for the mech driver. | 13:35 |
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| rkukura | baoli: OK, you just mean getting the existing binding:profile, adding stuff, and then doing a port_update. You said "port-create" above, in which case the port doesn't already exist. | 13:35 |
| irenab | baoli:agree, this can help to filter between diff.v vendor Mech Drivers for SR-IOV | 13:35 |
| baoli | rkukura, with --nic port-id=sriov-port-uuid, the port has to be created before hand | 13:36 |
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| rkukura | baoli: agreed - I was just confusing this with the case where nova creates the port. | 13:37 |
| baoli | so it would be like, neutron port-create --vnic-type=direct --pci-flavor=f1 net, and then nova boot --nic port-id=port-uuid. It's not exact the cli syntax, but that's the idea | 13:37 |
| irenab | baoli: agree | 13:38 |
| baoli | cool | 13:38 |
| baoli | Now let's talk about the neutron net-create command | 13:38 |
| heyongli | --pci-flavor=f1:number | 13:38 |
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| baoli | heyongli, we don't need :number, since it's only one nic a time | 13:39 |
| heyongli | baoli: to keep it all the same , i suggest it should have one | 13:39 |
| irenab | heyongli: can it be assumed 1 if not specified? | 13:40 |
| baoli | heyongli, I suggest that if it's one, it can be omitted in the extra spec as well | 13:40 |
| baoli | in our case, it's always one | 13:40 |
| heyongli | baoli: let's accept this , maybe convinet to you guy. | 13:40 |
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| baoli | disagree | 13:41 |
| heyongli | what ? | 13:41 |
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| heyongli | i mean ommit is ok for me, disagree? | 13:41 |
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| baoli | heyongli, sorry, I misunderstood because the sequence of messages. So that's cool | 13:42 |
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| baoli | So we agree that if it's one, it can be omitted | 13:42 |
| irenab | baoli: can you present the net-create | 13:43 |
| baoli | irenab, I was thinking to add --pci-flavor and --port-profile to the command. | 13:43 |
| irenab | baoli: so you need extension for this? | 13:44 |
| baoli | The idea behind adding pci-flavor is that a pci flavor can be associated with a physical net by admin, and a neutron network is associated with a physical net. | 13:45 |
| baoli | irenab, possibly if we agree to add them | 13:45 |
| irenab | baoli: another question, how the pci flavor will be taken into account by scheduler? | 13:45 |
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| baoli | irenab, when you specify --nic net-id=net-uuid, nova query neutron for the network information, so that's when that information will be passed back to nova | 13:46 |
| baoli | the rest will be the same | 13:46 |
| irenab | naoli: not sure, but is it before the scheduler decision? | 13:46 |
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| baoli | irenab, yes. | 13:46 |
| irenab | so from the point it gets it from network details, it will be the flow heyongi already supports/plan to support? | 13:47 |
| baoli | So the sequence of api requests would be: neutron net-create --pci-falvor f1 net1, nova boot --nic net-id=net1-uuid. | 13:48 |
| baoli | irenab, it will be the same flow as the patch I have posted | 13:48 |
| irenab | baoli: So you just do not need to specify it explicitly on nova boot? | 13:48 |
| baoli | irenab, yes. | 13:49 |
| irenab | I think the correct constract to associate the pci_flavor with is provider_network and not virtual netowrk, so probably can come from config file | 13:49 |
| baoli | This gives the admin a simplified view/tool of the sriov network | 13:49 |
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| baoli | irenab, that's a good idea too. we can think about it more | 13:50 |
| irenab | and if needed can be overriden on virtual network/port level | 13:50 |
| baoli | Assuming that we use sriov for provider net only | 13:50 |
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| irenab | baoli: I like your idea to simplfy the management view | 13:51 |
| baoli | rkukura, any thoughts on this? | 13:51 |
| rkukura | irenab: Do you mean physical_network rather than "provider network"? | 13:51 |
| irenab | rkukura: same | 13:52 |
| rkukura | Once they are created, provider networks are no different than tenant networks. In fact, there is no way to know which way it was created. | 13:52 |
| irenab | I mean physical network you specify via provider extension | 13:52 |
| rkukura | ok, that's what I thought | 13:52 |
| rkukura | at least for flat and vlan networks, this makes sense | 13:53 |
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| rkukura | Are any other network_types, which might not involve a physical_network, in scope for this discussion? | 13:53 |
| irenab | rkukura: at least for now, not for Mellanox case | 13:54 |
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| rkukura | So who where in the process does the physical_network come into play? Does the user need to see this? | 13:55 |
| baoli | rkukura, by user, you mean? | 13:55 |
| rkukura | Only admin users would ever know anything about any physical_network | 13:56 |
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| baoli | rkukura, when we create a neutron network, the provider net needs to be specified with provider network, right? | 13:57 |
| irenab | the matching pci_flavor to physical_net should be done by admin only | 13:57 |
| baoli | agreed | 13:57 |
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| irenab | baoli: there can be default, then no need to specify | 13:57 |
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| rkukura | ok, so a non-admin user needs to pick the right flavor for the network he is using? | 13:57 |
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| heyongli | rkukura: for current, it is. | 13:58 |
| rkukura | That's fine for now. | 13:58 |
| irenab | rkukura: not is it was associated previously by admin | 13:58 |
| baoli | irenab, so you mean to say that it should be configured | 13:58 |
| irenab | baoli: what should be configured? | 13:58 |
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| heyongli | rkukura, we had plan B, discuss in the meeting, i recall. | 13:58 |
| baoli | irenab, I mean to say that the pci flavor and physical net association can be configured | 13:58 |
| rkukura | So when it comes to the ml2 port binding by the PCI-passthru MechanismDriver, it will make sure the network has a segment who's physical_network matches that of the PCI device? | 13:59 |
| irenab | its an option, like you have vlan_ranges configured via config | 13:59 |
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| irenab | rkukura: it should be so | 13:59 |
| baoli | Ok, time is running out. Let's continue on Monday, in the same time let's also talk about work division. | 14:00 |
| baoli | #endmeeting | 14:00 |
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| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 14:00 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Thu Jan 23 14:00:09 2014 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 14:00 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/pci_passthrough/2014/pci_passthrough.2014-01-23-13.02.html | 14:00 |
| rkukura | irenab: agreed | 14:00 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/pci_passthrough/2014/pci_passthrough.2014-01-23-13.02.txt | 14:00 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/pci_passthrough/2014/pci_passthrough.2014-01-23-13.02.log.html | 14:00 |
| baoli | thanks everyone | 14:00 |
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| irenab | thanks all | 14:00 |
| heyongli | thanks ,boli | 14:00 |
| heyongli | sorry, baoli | 14:00 |
| russellb | #startmeeting nova | 14:00 |
| openstack | Meeting started Thu Jan 23 14:00:52 2014 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is russellb. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 14:00 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 14:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: nova)" | 14:00 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'nova' | 14:00 |
| russellb | Hello, everyone! | 14:00 |
| russellb | This is our second bi-weekly meeting at 1400 UTC | 14:01 |
| llu-laptop | hi | 14:01 |
| matel | hi | 14:01 |
| * n0ano is it morning yet | 14:01 | |
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| hartsocks | \o | 14:01 |
| johnthetubaguy | hi | 14:01 |
| sahid | hi | 14:01 |
| russellb | seemed to be attended just as well as the other time 2 weeks ago | 14:01 |
| russellb | #topic general | 14:01 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "general (Meeting topic: nova)" | 14:01 | |
| russellb | so let's check in on the icehouse schedule | 14:02 |
| russellb | #link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Icehouse_Release_Schedule | 14:02 |
| russellb | icehouse-2 is today | 14:02 |
| russellb | which means we're now in icehouse-3 development | 14:02 |
| russellb | some critical dates to keep in mind for icehouse-3 ... | 14:02 |
| russellb | feature freeze --> March 4 | 14:02 |
| russellb | however, we need to pick a date for our feature proposal freeze | 14:02 |
| russellb | last cycle we had a deadline for code to be posted 2 weeks before feature freeze | 14:03 |
| russellb | i think it would be wise to do the same thing again, but hadn't really picked a specific date yet | 14:03 |
| llu-laptop | feature proposal == bp approval? | 14:03 |
| russellb | i should say, blueprint code proposal freeze | 14:03 |
| russellb | not sure what to call it :-) | 14:04 |
| johnthetubaguy | +1 sounds good | 14:04 |
| hartsocks | proposal deadline? | 14:04 |
| russellb | basically ... we want code to be up in advance of the merge deadline | 14:04 |
| russellb | yeah. | 14:04 |
| matel | patch proposal | 14:04 |
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| russellb | we're looking at mid-february sometime | 14:04 |
| russellb | i'll start a thread on openstack-dev to finalize the date | 14:05 |
| russellb | because i suspect other projects may want to coordinate on that | 14:05 |
| rushiagr | hi | 14:05 |
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| russellb | but basically ... less than 4 weeks to have code up for review for icehouse (for blueprints) | 14:05 |
| russellb | any schedule questions? | 14:05 |
| johnthetubaguy | sounds good, cross project meeting agenda item? | 14:06 |
| russellb | johnthetubaguy: that's a good idea | 14:06 |
| russellb | #action russellb to bring code proposal freeze date selection to cross project meeting | 14:06 |
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| johnthetubaguy | :) | 14:06 |
| russellb | #topic sub-teams | 14:07 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "sub-teams (Meeting topic: nova)" | 14:07 | |
| * hartsocks waves | 14:07 | |
| * n0ano gantt | 14:07 | |
| * johnthetubaguy raises hand | 14:07 | |
| russellb | hartsocks: go for it | 14:07 |
| hartsocks | sure. | 14:07 |
| hartsocks | We're set for Minesweeper to do voting ... | 14:07 |
| hartsocks | … it's set for a "0" vote right now instead of a −1 vote. | 14:07 |
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| hartsocks | Mostly we're bummed because none of our blueprints were reviewed. | 14:08 |
| hartsocks | That's all I'd bring to the group. | 14:08 |
| russellb | sorry about that | 14:08 |
| hartsocks | I'll hit the mailing list later with my detailed update. | 14:08 |
| russellb | a very low number of blueprints made it in | 14:08 |
| * hartsocks bows out | 14:08 | |
| hartsocks | yeah I figured. | 14:08 |
| russellb | we can revisit that in a bit more detail in the blueprints section in a bit | 14:08 |
| hartsocks | This was a rocky milestone. | 14:09 |
| russellb | k, will look for your detailed update on list | 14:09 |
| russellb | n0ano: hi | 14:09 |
| n0ano | couple of things... | 14:09 |
| n0ano | decision was made to get the gantt tree working first and then re-sync (potentially recreate the tree) to the nova tree... | 14:10 |
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| russellb | yes, i think that's a good plan of attack | 14:10 |
| n0ano | to that, I've submitted a couple of patches for review that get almost all of the 254 unit tests working (17 related to affinity still fail)... | 14:10 |
| russellb | links? | 14:10 |
| russellb | https://review.openstack.org/#/q/project:openstack/gantt+branch:master,n,z | 14:11 |
| n0ano | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/68521/ | 14:11 |
| n0ano | reviews would be nice :-) | 14:11 |
| russellb | https://review.openstack.org/#/q/project:openstack/gantt+branch:master+status:open,n,z | 14:11 |
| russellb | ok, will keep a tab open on them to look today | 14:12 |
| johnthetubaguy | n0ano: I keep meaning to, will bump up the list a bit | 14:12 |
| russellb | on the add/remove files thing ... probably something to note for regenerating the repo | 14:12 |
| n0ano | NP, they're there waiting for you :-) | 14:12 |
| russellb | if that gets done | 14:12 |
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| n0ano | I did it that way so that the gantt changes would be separate from adding/deleting files, makes the re-sync easier | 14:13 |
| russellb | so i think for icehouse we should aim to have the thing running so that we could do a nova-scheduler freeze early juno | 14:13 |
| n0ano | russellb, +1 (that would be the goal) | 14:13 |
| russellb | i think a full dev cycle is ideal to let things shake out with splitting | 14:13 |
| johnthetubaguy | running by end of icehouse then? | 14:14 |
| russellb | yeah | 14:14 |
| johnthetubaguy | sounds good | 14:14 |
| russellb | and if we meet that, we can then have the conversation with release management about the deprecation plan and release of gantt | 14:14 |
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| n0ano | we're close (getting most of the unit tests going is big) so I think that's doable | 14:14 |
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| russellb | sounds good | 14:15 |
| russellb | thanks for your work on it! | 14:15 |
| russellb | anything else in scheduler land? | 14:15 |
| n0ano | BTW, I haven't gotten anyone to look at my devstack changes for gantt | 14:15 |
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| n0ano | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/67666/ | 14:15 |
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| n0ano | getting reviews for that would be nice also | 14:15 |
| russellb | ooh i didn't know that existed yet | 14:15 |
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| russellb | will look at that too | 14:15 |
| n0ano | yes, one more item, johnthetubaguy brought up his BP for caching scheduler | 14:15 |
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| johnthetubaguy | I am writing a new caching scheduler driver: https://review.openstack.org/#/c/67855/ | 14:16 |
| n0ano | #link https://blueprints.launchpad.net/nova/+spec/caching-scheduler | 14:16 |
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| n0ano | some discussion around that, looks interesting but need more info | 14:16 |
| johnthetubaguy | its going to be experimental at the moment | 14:16 |
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| johnthetubaguy | I don't have stats only feelings | 14:16 |
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| johnthetubaguy | would like to encourage innovation there, over perfection | 14:17 |
| russellb | hmm, maybe a design wiki page to go with it? | 14:17 |
| russellb | run through some examples | 14:17 |
| johnthetubaguy | it re-uses all filters and weights at the moment | 14:17 |
| n0ano | russellb, that was suggested at the meeting | 14:17 |
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| russellb | johnthetubaguy: cool, just trying to understand how the cache part works | 14:18 |
| russellb | which i guess is kinda the point :) | 14:18 |
| johnthetubaguy | yeah, I should write that, proved to myself it works | 14:18 |
| johnthetubaguy | ish | 14:18 |
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| russellb | but yeah, i'm all for alternative approaches | 14:18 |
| n0ano | that's pretty much all from me | 14:18 |
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| johnthetubaguy | I will write it up, now it works (with one host anyway) | 14:19 |
| russellb | johnthetubaguy: ok great | 14:19 |
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| russellb | ping me when you have that so we can push the bp review along | 14:19 |
| * n0ano one host - my favorite cloud | 14:19 | |
| russellb | we all do dev on one host clouds, right? heh | 14:19 |
| russellb | works on devstack, ship it | 14:19 |
| johnthetubaguy | I didn't approve the BP since I didn't feel I wrote it up well enough yet :) | 14:19 |
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| johnthetubaguy | hehe | 14:19 |
| n0ano | sometimes I go wild and bring up 2 | 14:20 |
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| russellb | johnthetubaguy: yeah, that's all i want to see (a bit of a write-up) | 14:20 |
| johnthetubaguy | +1 | 14:20 |
| russellb | alright, thanks guys! | 14:20 |
| russellb | johnthetubaguy: you! | 14:20 |
| johnthetubaguy | cool | 14:20 |
| russellb | in another context i suspect | 14:20 |
| johnthetubaguy | matel: is doing great work on the test stuff, maybe he can summarise that? | 14:21 |
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| matel | yes, we have pending changes in nodepool & infra, but tempest still fails. | 14:21 |
| matel | So the plan is to get a stable tempest run first, and then trigger the infra team. | 14:21 |
| johnthetubaguy | but on a physical node BobBall has full tempest passing right? | 14:22 |
| russellb | infra team is pretty slammed at the moment anyway | 14:22 |
| matel | yes, physical works. | 14:22 |
| mriedem | full tempest? | 14:22 |
| mriedem | and is that scoped to only xenapi patches? or all? | 14:22 |
| russellb | what about the other env makes it fail? | 14:22 |
| matel | russelb: Still looking into that | 14:22 |
| russellb | k just curious | 14:22 |
| russellb | appreciate your hard work on this | 14:23 |
| matel | It's a bit slow, but we'are getting closer. | 14:23 |
| russellb | how do you feel about the timeline right now | 14:23 |
| matel | mriedem: full passed on 17th last. | 14:23 |
| mriedem | matel: how long is a full run taking on your physical node? | 14:24 |
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| matel | russellb: Not sure, related to our changes, it's around 2-4 weeks. | 14:24 |
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| russellb | OK, was wondering how realistic having it running by icehouse-3 was | 14:25 |
| russellb | i guess getting tempest passing is in your control ... infra integration slightly out of your control | 14:25 |
| matel | mriedem: 4118.578s on a rather old machine | 14:25 |
| russellb | not bad | 14:25 |
| russellb | that's how long current jobs are taking | 14:26 |
| johnthetubaguy | yeah, there are some perf fixes done by Bob to help that, so we are getting close | 14:26 |
| johnthetubaguy | so far... | 14:26 |
| russellb | current jobs were faster before, but we cut concurrency back to 2 from 4 | 14:26 |
| russellb | because 4 overloaded the test nodes | 14:26 |
| mriedem | matel: and is this on all nova patches, or a subset? | 14:26 |
| johnthetubaguy | ah, makes sense | 14:26 |
| matel | mriedem: This job, that I was looking at, was a nova master + under review citrix patches. | 14:27 |
| johnthetubaguy | yeah, final thing with run in Rax cloud using zuul | 14:27 |
| johnthetubaguy | anyway, that was main news | 14:28 |
| russellb | great, happy to hear about progress on that front | 14:28 |
| matel | mriedem: last master pass was on 8-jan | 14:28 |
| russellb | regarding other drivers ... no real word from hyperv lately, and docker folks just starting to work on it | 14:29 |
| russellb | hyperv at the biggest risk, then docker | 14:29 |
| mriedem | i was going to read the latest hyperv meeting minutes | 14:29 |
| russellb | i feel good about vmware and xenapi | 14:29 |
| johnthetubaguy | LXC are thinking about stuff too I think | 14:29 |
| mriedem | is there any news in there? | 14:29 |
| russellb | johnthetubaguy: LXC? as in libvirt/lxc or? | 14:29 |
| russellb | mriedem: good idea | 14:29 |
| russellb | mriedem: wish they would show up here ... :( | 14:29 |
| mriedem | yeah, me too | 14:30 |
| mriedem | i'll read their minutes | 14:30 |
| johnthetubaguy | russellb: libvirt + LXC I think | 14:30 |
| russellb | mriedem: k let me know | 14:30 |
| russellb | johnthetubaguy: ah OK | 14:30 |
| russellb | we also do libvirt/xen | 14:30 |
| russellb | i doubt there will be CI for that | 14:30 |
| johnthetubaguy | yeah, suse guys mentioned it, or someone did at the summit | 14:31 |
| russellb | but also not sure it's worth ripping out that pieces of it | 14:31 |
| johnthetubaguy | but not seen anything | 14:31 |
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| russellb | it being libvirt driver | 14:31 |
| johnthetubaguy | well, I think we agreed to add a log saying "untested" or something | 14:31 |
| russellb | maybe put a big warning in the logs ... yeah | 14:31 |
| mriedem | for xenapi? | 14:31 |
| johnthetubaguy | xenapi is not in libvirt | 14:31 |
| johnthetubaguy | libvirt xen is a different thingy | 14:31 |
| mriedem | ok, xenapi is what we were just talking about before right? | 14:31 |
| mriedem | ok, yeah | 14:31 |
| mriedem | i joined late :) | 14:32 |
| johnthetubaguy | yeah, sorry, for confusion, why just have one tool stack, when you can have seven? | 14:32 |
| russellb | xenapi is in good shape | 14:32 |
| russellb | ok onward | 14:32 |
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| johnthetubaguy | its promising at least, hoping to add cloudcafe after we have tempest working | 14:32 |
| russellb | #topic bugs | 14:32 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "bugs (Meeting topic: nova)" | 14:32 | |
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| russellb | #link https://bugs.launchpad.net/nova | 14:33 |
| russellb | 226 new bugs | 14:33 |
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| russellb | it's probably worth a bug triage day soon | 14:33 |
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| russellb | to make sure we catch anything really important in there for icehouse | 14:33 |
| russellb | anyone interested in organizing that? | 14:33 |
| johnthetubaguy | first friday of icehouse-3 and icehouse-4? | 14:34 |
| mriedem | 101 untagged, wow | 14:34 |
| russellb | what's icehouse-4 :) | 14:34 |
| johnthetubaguy | I am tempted by might need some guidance, I can reach out to mr still I guess | 14:34 |
| johnthetubaguy | doh | 14:34 |
| russellb | johnthetubaguy: happy to provide guidance, and michael would be great too | 14:34 |
| johnthetubaguy | cool, I can give it a try then | 14:34 |
| russellb | basically ... pick a day, write up an encouraging call to arms email | 14:35 |
| russellb | invite everyone to join #openstack-nova to work together | 14:35 |
| johnthetubaguy | oh, yeah, and ready the stats | 14:35 |
| russellb | provide a set of links to the bug lists, and process notes | 14:35 |
| russellb | and yeah, metrics are good so that we can celebrate progress made | 14:35 |
| johnthetubaguy | cool, I can dig out the old emails | 14:35 |
| johnthetubaguy | when do we want it, next week or two? | 14:35 |
| russellb | i think any time in icehouse-3 would be OK | 14:36 |
| kashyap | I can volunteer for the bug triage day to participate if it's before 30th of this month. | 14:36 |
| russellb | before we start our big bug fix push in the RC cycle | 14:36 |
| russellb | kashyap: great thanks | 14:36 |
| johnthetubaguy | russellb: right, and after the gate bug day, I guess | 14:36 |
| russellb | true | 14:36 |
| mriedem | gate bug day is every day right? | 14:36 |
| russellb | which is this coming monday | 14:36 |
| russellb | heh | 14:36 |
| kashyap | Although, my areas limited to KVM/QEMU/Libvirt aspects. | 14:36 |
| russellb | gate bug day has been every day for me lately yes :) | 14:37 |
| russellb | kashyap: plenty of those in there to look at i think | 14:37 |
| russellb | kashyap: and you can always expand your knowledge by studying some others :) | 14:37 |
| kashyap | rushiagr, Yeah, I'm already on two of them | 14:37 |
| rushiagr | I'll do some bugtriage wrt ec2 api bugs | 14:37 |
| kashyap | russellb, Yeah, for now I'm focusing on KVM internals/nested virt in my spare time | 14:37 |
| johnthetubaguy | OK, so I will try sort something out, maybe aim for the Monday after the gate day? | 14:38 |
| russellb | if nothing else, for status we have http://webnumbr.com/untouched-nova-bugs | 14:38 |
| * rushiagr smiles at kashyap thanking him for waking /me up at the right time | 14:38 | |
| mriedem | johnthetubaguy: week after next sounds good | 14:38 |
| russellb | johnthetubaguy: sure ... or i think fridays are good for this kinda thing too ... any day is good with me though | 14:38 |
| mriedem | b/c the week after that is the mid cycle meetup | 14:38 |
| kashyap | (Oops, didn't mean to prompt, damn auto-completion) | 14:38 |
| rushiagr | kashyap: no worries | 14:38 |
| russellb | could be a mid-cycle meetup activity, too | 14:38 |
| mriedem | yeah | 14:39 |
| russellb | for some of the time anyway | 14:39 |
| mriedem | might work out that way | 14:39 |
| johnthetubaguy | well, do we want it after the mid-cycle meetup | 14:39 |
| mriedem | is that too late? | 14:39 |
| russellb | we also have http://status.openstack.org/bugday/ | 14:39 |
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| johnthetubaguy | mriedem: yeah, I guess, so week before it will be | 14:40 |
| kashyap | (/me is trying to reproduce this nasty one on his setup, I wonder why more more people aren't hitting it - https://bugs.launchpad.net/nova/+bug/1267191) | 14:40 |
| russellb | sounds good to me | 14:40 |
| russellb | thanks a bunch johnthetubaguy :) | 14:40 |
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| russellb | johnthetubaguy: catch my two stats links? | 14:40 |
| johnthetubaguy | yeah, looks good, thanks | 14:40 |
| russellb | cool | 14:40 |
| russellb | mikal may have another too | 14:40 |
| johnthetubaguy | yeah, will drop him a mail, given he sleeps while I code | 14:41 |
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| russellb | ok last bug note real quick ... | 14:41 |
| russellb | #link http://status.openstack.org/elastic-recheck/ | 14:41 |
| russellb | i've been focusing on gate bugs the last couple weeks | 14:41 |
| russellb | could still use more help | 14:41 |
| kashyap | Is there a URL for gate bugs? | 14:42 |
| russellb | the elastic-recheck page sorts the known ones by frequency | 14:42 |
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| russellb | kashyap: there's a libvirt one on there | 14:42 |
| kashyap | I'd like to keep an eye, as most of my testing is on Fedora + latest bits (mostly RDO; sometimes devstack) | 14:42 |
| russellb | #topic blueprints | 14:42 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "blueprints (Meeting topic: nova)" | 14:42 | |
| russellb | so blueprints ... | 14:43 |
| russellb | our velocity is down a good bit this cycle, and i think other projects too | 14:43 |
| russellb | #link https://launchpad.net/nova/+milestone/icehouse-2 | 14:43 |
| russellb | we completed 9 in icehouse-2 | 14:43 |
| russellb | and 13 in icehouse-1 | 14:43 |
| russellb | and now icehouse-3 is kind of insane looking | 14:43 |
| russellb | but on the velocity issue | 14:43 |
| russellb | i think there are a few major contributing factors worth noting | 14:44 |
| johnthetubaguy | been thinking about the process, if there are more higher priority blueprints, its easier to review them above all the other low? Maybe we should just bump a few up and leave sponsors as extra input not only input? | 14:44 |
| russellb | 1) summit in the middle of icehouse-1 | 14:44 |
| russellb | 2) holidays in the middle of icehouse-2 | 14:44 |
| russellb | 3) major gate troubles in the last couple weeks | 14:44 |
| russellb | johnthetubaguy: yes the process, thanks for bringing that up | 14:44 |
| russellb | so i sent out a message last week asking for people to please sponsor stuff | 14:45 |
| russellb | i'm not sure that really helped | 14:45 |
| russellb | so i agree, i think for icehouse at this point, we should just bump things up that we just feel are more important | 14:45 |
| russellb | we should only bump up the ones we really want to get in, and think can (sponsors aside) | 14:45 |
| kashyap | russellb, Yes, that Gate bug (1254872) - I looked at it a couple of days ago. danpb posted some investigation for the reporter. I'll try it tomorrow | 14:45 |
| johnthetubaguy | yeah, we kinda need to, we can leave sponsoring as a handy way to get _other_ blueprints to medium | 14:46 |
| russellb | johnthetubaguy: sure, i'm good with that | 14:46 |
| russellb | and we'll have to re-discuss the process for juno | 14:46 |
| russellb | i'm loving the help, that part is good | 14:46 |
| russellb | the prioritization part is a flop | 14:46 |
| johnthetubaguy | +1 | 14:46 |
| johnthetubaguy | the review seems to work better, spread around, but yeah, priorities suck right now | 14:47 |
| russellb | so johnthetubaguy (and other nova-drivers) feel free to start selectively increasing priority | 14:47 |
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| johnthetubaguy | russellb: worth a mail to nova-drivers again? | 14:47 |
| russellb | yes | 14:47 |
| johnthetubaguy | sweet | 14:47 |
| russellb | so we should do that very soon | 14:48 |
| russellb | aim to pick out the ones we really want to land | 14:48 |
| alaski | I almost missed this meeting, and I'm guessing others aren't here. So email is good | 14:48 |
| russellb | alaski: all good | 14:48 |
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| russellb | we have a list of 147 right now | 14:48 |
| russellb | which is far from realistic | 14:48 |
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| johnthetubaguy | vs 13 and 9… | 14:49 |
| russellb | right. | 14:49 |
| johnthetubaguy | eek | 14:49 |
| russellb | so ... prioritize to pick the ones we want to focus on | 14:49 |
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| russellb | set a blueprint approval deadline to be soon | 14:49 |
| russellb | a good number of these haven't been approved | 14:49 |
| russellb | and then i suspect proposal deadline will kick out another big chunk | 14:49 |
| russellb | sounds like i need to write another email about icehouse-3 blueprint timeline | 14:50 |
| johnthetubaguy | yeah, would be good | 14:50 |
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| russellb | the points in time where we'll be kicking stuff out | 14:50 |
| russellb | how much time should we reserve to get the last bit approved | 14:50 |
| russellb | not like we need more approved, but should do another pass | 14:50 |
| russellb | next Friday reasonable? | 14:50 |
| johnthetubaguy | so, blueprint approved by, all patches ready and passing tests by? | 14:50 |
| russellb | yeah | 14:51 |
| russellb | and then of course, feature freeze (merged) | 14:51 |
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| johnthetubaguy | good point | 14:51 |
| johnthetubaguy | a week seems a bit short, but longer seems too long | 14:51 |
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| russellb | another week and a day seem reasonable to do our last blueprint approvals? | 14:51 |
| russellb | heh | 14:51 |
| johnthetubaguy | I think I aggree with a week | 14:51 |
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| russellb | we can always grant exceptions :) | 14:51 |
| alaski | sounds good to me | 14:51 |
| johnthetubaguy | true | 14:51 |
| russellb | so at least we'll hear the complaints sooner and have more time to respond to them, heh | 14:52 |
| johnthetubaguy | true true | 14:52 |
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| russellb | and if anyone has an icehouse-3 blueprint you know won't make it, save us some work and update it to defer :) | 14:53 |
| johnthetubaguy | stuff that is up for review now, all patches ready, should we make them medium now? since they got them there first? | 14:53 |
| dripton | that sounds totally fair | 14:53 |
| russellb | i wouldn't update all of them to medium | 14:53 |
| russellb | should be more selective | 14:53 |
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| johnthetubaguy | well, if we make the other stuff we _really_ want high? | 14:54 |
| russellb | the ones we feel are most important out of them, yes | 14:54 |
| * mriedem gets out my defer pen | 14:54 | |
| russellb | well ... release management treates medium and above special ... as in, those are the things we expect to merge | 14:54 |
| russellb | low is all "nice to have" | 14:54 |
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| johnthetubaguy | true, we should stick with that | 14:54 |
| russellb | that's the only reason i'm picky about it | 14:54 |
| russellb | but we can certainly afford more medium/high than we have right now | 14:55 |
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| dripton | but if the work's already done then we expect it to merge, unless we just don't like the blueprint idea, in which case it should have been rejected | 14:55 |
| johnthetubaguy | just wondering about fairness to those with code already out there, and others who come late to the party, but no easy solution there I guess | 14:55 |
| russellb | johnthetubaguy: yeah i think it's worth picking the mediums and such out of the ones in that state | 14:56 |
| russellb | just not wanting to agree to a blanket upgrade of all of them | 14:56 |
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| johnthetubaguy | yeah, thats a good way of putting it | 14:56 |
| russellb | because there are some things that are just a ton of work with seemingly low backing | 14:57 |
| russellb | like gce for example | 14:57 |
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| russellb | #topic open discussion | 14:57 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "open discussion (Meeting topic: nova)" | 14:57 | |
| hartsocks | caching? | 14:57 |
| russellb | hartsocks: caching of what | 14:57 |
| hartsocks | method outputs | 14:57 |
| russellb | no idea what you're talking about, heh | 14:57 |
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| johnthetubaguy | erm... | 14:57 |
| hartsocks | I've seen a number of patches that implement their own caches…. | 14:57 |
| russellb | don't we have an oslo thingy for that? | 14:58 |
| hartsocks | I thought so... | 14:58 |
| sdague | russellb: nova v3 xml remove? ;) | 14:58 |
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| russellb | sdague: AH YES | 14:58 |
| russellb | so xml in v3. | 14:58 |
| russellb | anyone want to keep it? | 14:58 |
| johnthetubaguy | nope | 14:58 |
| alaski | nope | 14:58 |
| mriedem | i still need to read that thread | 14:58 |
| russellb | mriedem: i'll take that as a no | 14:58 |
| mriedem | :) | 14:58 |
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| mriedem | not me personally | 14:58 |
| russellb | FWIW, i'm happy to remove it | 14:58 |
| sdague | I'm getting a tempest patch ready so we could do the nova delete | 14:58 |
| russellb | i feel like we put some threads out there, no real support for keeping it | 14:59 |
| sdague | I think it would take a lot of cruft out of the code, and let us focus on real issues | 14:59 |
| johnthetubaguy | …its a great sub team project, if someone wants to fund it in the future, not something we have resources for now | 14:59 |
| russellb | i also feel like i should send (yet another) email on it making it clear that we're making that call | 14:59 |
| russellb | sdague: do we have a blueprint? | 14:59 |
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| sdague | russellb: no, I'll create one | 14:59 |
| russellb | k | 15:00 |
| mriedem | the xml stuff is also a PITA for handling datetimes in responses, i found that out the hard way with converting an api to objects | 15:00 |
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| russellb | s/PITA.*/PITA/ | 15:00 |
| russellb | heh | 15:00 |
| russellb | alright, time is up | 15:00 |
| russellb | thank you all for coming | 15:00 |
| russellb | i appreciate your time, and your work on nova! | 15:00 |
| rushiagr | I have submitted some code w.r.t. additions to ec2 api related to block storage. I'd appreciate any help w.r.t getting some eyes on my code.. | 15:01 |
| alaski | russellb: we appreciate you | 15:01 |
| johnthetubaguy | +1 | 15:01 |
| russellb | let's jump to #openstack-nova rushiagr | 15:01 |
| russellb | alaski: johnthetubaguy <3 | 15:01 |
| rushiagr | russellb: done | 15:01 |
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| russellb | bye :) | 15:01 |
| russellb | #endmeeting | 15:01 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 15:01 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Thu Jan 23 15:01:42 2014 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 15:01 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/nova/2014/nova.2014-01-23-14.00.html | 15:01 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/nova/2014/nova.2014-01-23-14.00.txt | 15:01 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/nova/2014/nova.2014-01-23-14.00.log.html | 15:01 |
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| bswartz | #startmeeting manila | 15:02 |
| openstack | Meeting started Thu Jan 23 15:02:07 2014 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is bswartz. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 15:02 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 15:02 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: manila)" | 15:02 | |
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| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'manila' | 15:02 |
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| bswartz | hello folks | 15:02 |
| bswartz | who do we have? | 15:02 |
| vponomaryov | hi | 15:02 |
| xyang1 | hi | 15:02 |
| gregsfortytwo1 | hi | 15:02 |
| bill_az | Hi | 15:02 |
| vbellur | hello | 15:02 |
| achirko | hello | 15:02 |
| rraja | hi | 15:02 |
| caitlin56 | hi | 15:02 |
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| bswartz | wow we've got everyone it looks like | 15:03 |
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| bswartz | once again I don't have anything special for todays agenda | 15:03 |
| bswartz | I know some drivers are getting close to being done | 15:04 |
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| bswartz | so let's do the status update first | 15:04 |
| bswartz | #topic dev status | 15:04 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "dev status (Meeting topic: manila)" | 15:04 | |
| vponomaryov | I will update about it | 15:04 |
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| vponomaryov | Dev status: | 15:04 |
| bswartz | vponomaryov: ty | 15:04 |
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| vponomaryov | 1) network-api | 15:05 |
| vponomaryov | Successfully merged, it includes: security-services entities, share-networks and its linking. | 15:05 |
| vponomaryov | Not documented, for now, | 15:05 |
| vponomaryov | it is expected to be added here: https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Manila/API | 15:05 |
| vponomaryov | 2) Multitenant Generic driver (work in progress) - https://review.openstack.org/#/c/67182/ | 15:05 |
| vponomaryov | For now, it: | 15:05 |
| vponomaryov | a) creates service vm for manila in service tenant (vm of nova + volumes of cinder) | 15:05 |
| vponomaryov | b) uses ssh connection via namespaces for making connection between service vm and user vm (neutron approach, no floating ip). | 15:05 |
| vponomaryov | c) allows to create shares and snapshots | 15:05 |
| vponomaryov | work left for generic driver: | 15:06 |
| vponomaryov | d) Implement handling of rules (NFS and CIFS) | 15:06 |
| vponomaryov | e) Implement proper handling of service VM, after restart of manila for each VM state | 15:06 |
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| vponomaryov | 3) NetApp Cmode multitenant driver - https://review.openstack.org/#/c/59100/ | 15:06 |
| vponomaryov | Main work is done, left: | 15:06 |
| vponomaryov | a) implement proper removing of errored shares | 15:06 |
| vponomaryov | b) test setting of all provided security services data (depends on environment) | 15:06 |
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| vponomaryov | NetApp Cmode driver and generic driver are multi-tenant and they are dependent on share-network entity, that has only neutron plugin, and can not work without neutron. | 15:07 |
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| vponomaryov | Other already existing merged drivers are single-tenant and don't depend on share-network entity: | 15:07 |
| vponomaryov | - LVM driver (supports nfs and cifs, but sid rules not implemented) | 15:07 |
| vponomaryov | - glusterfs driver (supports only nfs) | 15:07 |
| vponomaryov | - netapp 7mode driver | 15:07 |
| bswartz | and the "generic" driver can not work without nova or cinder either | 15:07 |
| vponomaryov | bswartz: right | 15:08 |
| bswartz | so manila will start out being heavily dependent on the rest of openstack | 15:08 |
| vponomaryov | that all for status | 15:08 |
| bswartz | we might want to think about whether that's a good thing or a bad thing | 15:08 |
| vponomaryov | generic driver isn't production-oriented | 15:08 |
| bswartz | I personally thing that modularity is important, and dependencies are generally bad | 15:09 |
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| bswartz | think* | 15:09 |
| vbellur | bswartz: +1 | 15:09 |
| bswartz | however if removing dependencies creates a bunch of complexity then that's not good either | 15:09 |
| bswartz | that can be a future topic | 15:09 |
| bswartz | maybe something to discuss in atlanta | 15:09 |
| bswartz | for now I'm more interested in getting something production ready | 15:09 |
| bswartz | thanks for the comprehensive update vponomaryov! | 15:10 |
| caitlin56 | For any given site the set of manila drivers would be very static, so some setup cmplexitywould be quite tolerable. | 15:10 |
| bswartz | just to jump back to the generic driver and the SSH communication -- where is that code? | 15:10 |
| bswartz | caitlin56: complexity and tolerable should not appear in the same sentence! | 15:11 |
| vbellur | vponomaryov: what are the reasons behind generic driver not being production ready? | 15:11 |
| bswartz | caitlin56: that way of thinking is a slippery slope | 15:11 |
| xyang1 | vponomaryov: are you using a custom image for the generic driver when you launch a VM from nova? | 15:11 |
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| vponomaryov | bswartz: that code in gerrit topic https://review.openstack.org/#/c/67182/ | 15:11 |
| achirko | bswartz: https://review.openstack.org/#/q/status:open+project:stackforge/manila+branch:master+topic:bp/generic-driver,n,z | 15:12 |
| bswartz | vbellur: I think the point is that the top priority for the generic driver is to function as a software only implementation for the purpose of POCs and automated testing | 15:12 |
| vponomaryov | vbellur: for now, it is pretty slow, and it will work much faster will manila backend driver | 15:12 |
| bswartz | I would like to see the generic driver become production quality | 15:12 |
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| vponomaryov | xyang1: for, yes, we are using ubuntu cloud image with installed nfs and samba servers | 15:13 |
| vbellur | bswartz, vponomaryov: got it, thanks. | 15:13 |
| xyang1 | vponomaryov: thanks. so this image has to be checked in, right | 15:13 |
| bswartz | vponomaryov, xyang1: We need to make sure that administrators can run an image of their choosing in the service VM for the generic driver | 15:14 |
| bswartz | xyang1: no! | 15:14 |
| xyang1 | bswartz: admin has to create their own custom image to use the generic driver? | 15:14 |
| bswartz | What we need is to document the requirements for the service VM, so that it's possible to build an ubuntu-based service VM or a redhat-based service VM, or a SLES-based service VM | 15:15 |
| vponomaryov | xyang1: image dependency should be left for administrator or devstack | 15:15 |
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| bswartz | as long as the image contains a linux image with SSHD, NFSD, and Samba it should be okay | 15:15 |
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| xyang1 | vponomaryov: is this image you are using downloadable already, or did you install the nfs and samba servers and then create a image yourself? | 15:16 |
| vbellur | vponomaryov: +1 | 15:16 |
| bswartz | maybe someone will take up the task of building a minimal service VM image for manila -- something like Cirros but with file share capabilities | 15:16 |
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| vponomaryov | xyang1: we have downloaded ubuntu cloud image, installed nfs and samba, and enabled passwords for ssh, thats all | 15:17 |
| bswartz | I think the task for the manila team is to simply document the requirements that the generic driver will rely on and leave it to the administrator to find or build something suitable | 15:17 |
| xyang1 | vponomaryov: ok, thanks | 15:17 |
| csaba | bswartz: we have a PoC Cirros hack, that is as much as possible to use an nfsv3 client, it could be enhanced along said requirements | 15:17 |
| bswartz | xyang1: I don't think so | 15:17 |
| bswartz | xyang1: oops nm | 15:18 |
| bswartz | csaba: that sounds exciting | 15:18 |
| bswartz | jumping back up though | 15:19 |
| vponomaryov | yeah, cirros with nfs and samba is pretty interesting thing, but we need both protocols | 15:19 |
| bswartz | vponomaryov: do you have an estimate for when the generic driver will be complete? | 15:19 |
| vponomaryov | we hope, next week | 15:19 |
| bswartz | okay that's what I expected | 15:20 |
| bswartz | and the NetApp driver too? | 15:20 |
| bswartz | any issues with NetApp cmode other than LDAP support? | 15:20 |
| vponomaryov | we need to test it with all variants of environment | 15:21 |
| vponomaryov | active directory, ldap, kerberos | 15:21 |
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| bswartz | okay | 15:21 |
| vponomaryov | if we are successfull, next week too | 15:21 |
| bswartz | okay let's hope for no problems | 15:22 |
| * bswartz crosses his fingers | 15:22 | |
| bswartz | #topic generic driver | 15:22 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "generic driver (Meeting topic: manila)" | 15:22 | |
| bswartz | okay what's preventing the generic driver from being production ready? | 15:23 |
| bswartz | is it mostly performance limitations? | 15:23 |
| aostapenko | yes | 15:23 |
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| bswartz | is running NFSD in a VM inherently slower than running it on bare metal? | 15:24 |
| caitlin56 | poor performance even with a single vserver? | 15:24 |
| bswartz | is it a question of the backend performance w/ Cinder? | 15:24 |
| vponomaryov | also, if we restart manila, it should validate service vm | 15:24 |
| vponomaryov | each share one by one | 15:25 |
| vponomaryov | and it is take a while | 15:25 |
| bswartz | I realize that a whitebox file server running open source software will not really compete with custom hardware/software, but I'd like the generic driver to be at least as good as other pure OSS approaches on comparable hardware | 15:25 |
| vponomaryov | if we try create something during this period, we get fail | 15:25 |
| vbellur | how bad is the performance with the generic driver at the moment? | 15:25 |
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| aostapenko | if we find good light image for service vm it will be much better | 15:26 |
| achirko | Because of using cinder to provide volumes and nova for vservers we introducing additional layer (abstraction and resources utilization) compare to some cool back-end | 15:26 |
| bswartz | Maybe during Juno we can undertake a manila-generic-performance-enhancement project | 15:27 |
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| csaba | how far is it down on the road that container-based service vm becomes feasible? | 15:27 |
| vponomaryov | vbellur: after using manila-compute for this, it is endless waiting =) | 15:27 |
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| vbellur | vponomaryov: ok, I feel the performance impact now :) | 15:27 |
| bswartz | achirko there are cinder backends that can serve local storage though -- those should dramatically reduce bottlenecks related to remote backends | 15:27 |
| vbellur | csaba: that is a good point., might help address the restart case | 15:28 |
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| achirko | csaba: as far as I know containers do not support run-time volumes attachment, so it can be a blocker | 15:28 |
| vponomaryov | achirko: also no NFS for containers, in repositories | 15:29 |
| bswartz | well there's no kernel NFS but userspace NFS is not looking so bad | 15:29 |
| aostapenko | no nfs kernel server for containers | 15:30 |
| vponomaryov | will be right, nfs kernel server won't work with containers | 15:30 |
| bswartz | In fact I'd like to talk about userspace NFS and gateways | 15:30 |
| vbellur | yeah, we could try with Ganesha or Gluster NFS within a container | 15:30 |
| bswartz | #topic gateways | 15:30 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "gateways (Meeting topic: manila)" | 15:30 | |
| bswartz | okay so there are a number of backends which can't natively support multitenancy with segmented VLANs | 15:31 |
| vponomaryov | vbellur: if we have cirros with userspace nfs and samba, so it will be breakthrough | 15:31 |
| xyang1 | vbellur: has anyone tried Ganesha? Seems very buggy to me. | 15:31 |
| bswartz | xyang1: it's under active development -- are you sure you're running the latest stable branch? | 15:32 |
| vbellur | xyang1: we have been playing around with it (both v1.5 and v2) | 15:32 |
| xyang1 | bswartz: I think so. | 15:32 |
| vponomaryov | xyang1: +1, itworks on CentOS and similar to it, not on debian, as for me | 15:32 |
| xyang1 | vponomaryov: I tried on debian | 15:33 |
| bswartz | my current idea for gateways looks very similar to the generic driver | 15:33 |
| vbellur | xyang1: and we have been able to run reasonable tests | 15:33 |
| xyang1 | vbellur: ok, good to know. | 15:33 |
| bswartz | the server that will be visible to the tenant will be something like ganesha-nfs, either running in a VM or somewhere that has a network interface on the tenant's VLAN | 15:34 |
| bswartz | ganesha-nfs will in turn be a client of the real backend | 15:34 |
| vbellur | bswartz: sounds feasible to me | 15:35 |
| bswartz | so if you have a giant clustered filesystem, ganesha will re-export some subtree of the namespace | 15:35 |
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| vbellur | bswartz: right.. | 15:35 |
| xyang1 | vbellur: are you running ganesha-nfs in a container or VM? | 15:36 |
| bswartz | the gateway could in principle be a full HVM, or a container-based VM, or just a process running on a hypervisor node -- the key would be that it would need dual network connectivity -- to the tenant VLAN on one side and to the backend storage network on the other side | 15:36 |
| vbellur | xyang1: VM and bare metal too | 15:36 |
| xyang1 | vbellur: I tried in a container, maybe that's why I had problems. | 15:37 |
| bswartz | there's potential for resuing a bunch of the code that's been written for the generic driver | 15:37 |
| vbellur | xyang1: worth a try in a VM | 15:37 |
| xyang1 | vbellur: sure | 15:37 |
| bswartz | as we get some of the drivers wrapped up I'd like ot move onto prototyping the gateway-based multitenancy | 15:38 |
| bswartz | probably a few weeks from now | 15:38 |
| bswartz | so anyone who is interested get ready to participate | 15:38 |
| vbellur | bswartz: we are exploring Ganesha on similar lines | 15:38 |
| bswartz | or go ahead and start whipping up some prototypes so we'll have something to look at in a few weeks | 15:38 |
| vbellur | csaba did open a blueprint but I guess it is titled hypervisor mediated ... | 15:38 |
| bswartz | vbellur: oh I need to review the current BPs | 15:39 |
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| vbellur | on nomenclature - what should we call this scheme? gateway or hypervisor? gateway seems more generic to me. | 15:39 |
| bswartz | I like gateway, since it doesn't preclude any approach that I can think of | 15:39 |
| caitlin56 | +1 to gateway. It is more general, and the hypervisor is a gateway. | 15:39 |
| bswartz | +1 | 15:40 |
| vbellur | ok, we will rename the blue print. | 15:40 |
| bswartz | vbellur: ty | 15:40 |
| bswartz | #topic incubation | 15:40 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "incubation (Meeting topic: manila)" | 15:40 | |
| bswartz | okay so many of you will remember that the TC felt manila was not ready for incubation last november | 15:41 |
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| bswartz | Given how much work we've needed to do on multitenancy I think they were correct | 15:41 |
| vbellur | bswartz: agree | 15:41 |
| bswartz | but I'm now hopeful that we'll have working multitenancy by Icehouse | 15:41 |
| bswartz | and there is another hurdle that the TC threw in front of us | 15:42 |
| bswartz | they want to see that Manila is production-ready -- which implies that someone somewhere is actually running it in production | 15:42 |
| bswartz | so I wanted to ask the community if there are any organizations interested in being early deployers | 15:42 |
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| bswartz | NetApp definitely is interested, but hardware and people are needed and I'm not sure that NetApp is best equipped to do this quickly | 15:43 |
| vbellur | bswartz: there was some interest expressed in the openstack ML, we can try reaching out to those folks too. | 15:44 |
| bswartz | yeah I don't think group is the right group to ask -- but I wanted to put the word out that we're looking for a "beta" site so to speak | 15:44 |
| vponomaryov | vbellur: which mailing list group are you talking about? | 15:44 |
| bswartz | we need someone who wants the services that Manila offers and is willing to deal with the pain of deploying brand new code | 15:45 |
| vbellur | vponomaryov: openstack@lists.openstack.org - the user ML | 15:45 |
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| bswartz | after real drivers are available this will matter more | 15:46 |
| vbellur | bswartz: yeah, we can possibly seek out testing help from the community. that would be a natural way of converting those test deployments to real ones. | 15:46 |
| bswartz | it's not urgent, but I wanted everyone to be aware that the TC considers this a condition for incubation | 15:46 |
| vbellur | not sure how many noticed the barbican incubation request on openstack-dev ML | 15:46 |
| bswartz | I did not | 15:46 |
| bswartz | anything interesting? | 15:47 |
| vbellur | quite a bit, let me try to post a link to that thread | 15:47 |
| vbellur | here it is - http://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/openstack-dev/2013-December/020924.html | 15:47 |
| bswartz | vbellur: ty | 15:47 |
| vbellur | does give a good idea on the factors that TC considers for incubation | 15:48 |
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| bswartz | #topic open discussion | 15:48 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "open discussion (Meeting topic: manila)" | 15:48 | |
| bswartz | alright we have some time for anything else | 15:48 |
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| csaba | let me ask a silly question | 15:49 |
| csaba | how do we exaclty define multi-tenancy in this context? | 15:49 |
| bswartz | csaba: that's not a silly question! that's a good question | 15:49 |
| vponomaryov | csaba: separated resources for each tenant | 15:50 |
| csaba | ie. in what way is gluster , lvm ,etc considered single-tennant capalbe | 15:50 |
| csaba | when they can serve multiple tenants as subnets | 15:50 |
| bswartz | when we talk about multitenancy, we're referring to an environment where different tenants have compute resources in segmented networks so they're securely isolated from eachother | 15:51 |
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| bswartz | multitenancy is about making sure that different users cannot perceive eachother's existence and cannot interfere with eachother intentionally or unintentionally | 15:51 |
| vponomaryov | also isolated ip rules for NFS | 15:52 |
| bswartz | VLANs are the typical approach for isolating the network, but there are other perfectly valid approaches | 15:52 |
| bswartz | such as GRE tunnels or VXLANs | 15:52 |
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| bill_az | bswartz: do you consider vlan isoloation sufficient isolation for multi-tenancy? | 15:53 |
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| bill_az | (isolation) | 15:53 |
| bswartz | the main limitation with some shared filesystems (GlusterFS, CephFS, GPFS, and Isilon NFS are the ones I know about) is that they only support a single security domain | 15:53 |
| csaba | oh so simply IP ranges (in the same network) with fw/export rules to control access to resources is too poor separation to call it multi-tenancy? | 15:53 |
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| caitlin56 | The latter are becoming omore common, you run out of VLANs way too quickly. | 15:54 |
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| bswartz | csaba: yes access rules aren't sufficient because they assume a single IP routing domain and a common set of usernames/passwords | 15:55 |
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| caitlin56 | csaba: the real question is do you have mount control, and prevention of stealing mount handles. IF you could do that without network separation that *would* work. | 15:55 |
| bswartz | it's possible for tenant A to have a VM on 10.10.10.10 and for tenant B to also have a tenant VM on 10.10.10.10 and for those IP addresses to be completely different | 15:55 |
| caitlin56 | separate logical networks is a lot simpler. | 15:55 |
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| bswartz | it's also possible for tenant A to have a user called "bswartz" and tenant B to have a user called "bswartz" who is totally different | 15:55 |
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| csaba | is there an advantage of ip collisions? | 15:58 |
| bswartz | note that there are cases when less-secure tenant isolation would be acceptable | 15:58 |
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| bswartz | csaba: there's no advantage -- it's just unavoidable at scale due to the small space of IPv4 addresses | 15:58 |
| caitlin56 | csaba: you cannot tell Tenant A that they cannot ue IP addressX because tenant B is using it. | 15:58 |
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| vbellur | csaba: a tenant would be unaware of resource utilization by other tenants | 15:59 |
| csaba | ah I get it | 15:59 |
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| bswartz | okay our time is up | 15:59 |
| bswartz | that was a good question csaba | 16:00 |
| vbellur | quick qn - should we do a 0.1 release of manila after generic driver is in? | 16:00 |
| csaba | thx the answers | 16:00 |
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| bswartz | see you all next week when we hope to have the drivers merged! | 16:00 |
| vbellur | thanks | 16:00 |
| bswartz | #endmeeting | 16:00 |
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| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 16:00 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Thu Jan 23 16:00:32 2014 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 16:00 |
| aostapenko | thanks, bye. Viva La Revolucion | 16:00 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/manila/2014/manila.2014-01-23-15.02.html | 16:00 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/manila/2014/manila.2014-01-23-15.02.txt | 16:00 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/manila/2014/manila.2014-01-23-15.02.log.html | 16:00 |
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| mestery | hi | 16:00 |
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| mestery | #startmeeting networking_policy | 16:01 |
| openstack | Meeting started Thu Jan 23 16:01:06 2014 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is mestery. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 16:01 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 16:01 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: networking_policy)" | 16:01 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'networking_policy' | 16:01 |
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| thinrichs | Hi | 16:01 |
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| mestery | thinrichs: Hows it going? | 16:01 |
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| mestery | hi banix! | 16:01 |
| thinrichs | Good--busy as always. How about you? | 16:01 |
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| mestery | michsmit: yo! | 16:01 |
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| mestery | thinrichs: Busy but happy :) | 16:01 |
| banix | mestery: hi | 16:02 |
| michsmit | hi | 16:02 |
| banix | hi everybody | 16:02 |
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| mestery | #link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings/Neutron_Group_Policy Agenda | 16:02 |
| s3wong | hello | 16:02 |
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| mestery | s3wong: Greetings! | 16:02 |
| songole_ | Hi all | 16:02 |
| mestery | Looks like we have most of the team here. | 16:02 |
| mestery | songole_: howdy! | 16:02 |
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| mestery | #topic Action Item Review | 16:03 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Action Item Review (Meeting topic: networking_policy)" | 16:03 | |
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| mestery | So, I setup a shared github for the PoC work for now. | 16:04 |
| mestery | I was thinking we could just use a github and merge code there, and then formulate patches for upstream later. | 16:04 |
| mestery | Thoughts? | 16:04 |
| mestery | #link https://github.com/mestery/neutron/tree/group_policy Shared github repository | 16:04 |
| s3wong | mestery: sounds good | 16:04 |
| banix | mestery: Thanks. Sounds good. | 16:04 |
| mestery | Cool! | 16:04 |
| prasadv | mestery: that sounds good | 16:04 |
| mestery | So, it's just a clone of upstream Neutron for now, next step is to get the APIs in there I think. :) | 16:04 |
| mestery | One more action item to review | 16:05 |
| mestery | Thanks to s3wong for setting up the API document | 16:05 |
| mestery | #link https://docs.google.com/a/mestery.com/document/d/1b_ywmSTKYW4PBjhkXREPePRgVmz-Uwv_Bb-i7Jaqsu4/edit API Document | 16:05 |
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| mestery | So, review comments on that document appreciated by folks. | 16:06 |
| s3wong | yes, please | 16:06 |
| s3wong | and if anyone else wants editing right, please let me know as well (just send request via document) | 16:07 |
| mestery | Thanks s3wong. | 16:07 |
| mestery | #topic PoC | 16:07 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "PoC (Meeting topic: networking_policy)" | 16:07 | |
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| mestery | s3wong: Do you have enough info to start coding up the APIs now? | 16:07 |
| s3wong | mestery: yes, so I will be doing that over the next week or so | 16:08 |
| mestery | s3wong: Great! I'll start looking at the agent side as well for actually implementing things in OVS as well. | 16:08 |
| banix | I have *just* started coding the model (the db tables). | 16:08 |
| s3wong | (hopefully, other than songole, everyone else can do their part without waiting on me to finish) | 16:08 |
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| songole_ | s3wong: any access restrictions on APIs. admin vs tenant I suppose none. | 16:08 |
| s3wong | songole: for now, I don't see any | 16:09 |
| mestery | banix: Great! I'll start the agent stuff as well then. | 16:09 |
| banix | looks like for now the policy is defined within a tenant | 16:09 |
| banix | Is that right? Anything we need to do to have policies defined across tenants? Are we assuming the admin could do that | 16:10 |
| prasadv | i think if keystone scoping allows then apis should be allowed right? | 16:10 |
| songole_ | A tenant could only specify an endpoint in his domain? | 16:11 |
| s3wong | banix: I don't think there is anything we defined so far that is cross-tenant. Did I miss something? | 16:11 |
| mestery | prasadv: I think that makes sense, in which case admin would be able to work across tenants through keystone | 16:11 |
| banix | s3wong: you are correct | 16:11 |
| banix | May be not right now but something to think about / discuss. | 16:11 |
| thinrichs | Would there ever be a need for an admin to impose network-wide policies, i.e. that apply to every tenant? | 16:11 |
| banix | prasadv, mestery: agree | 16:12 |
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| s3wong | I guess just "external network", if we put that into an endpoint group... (and expecting the group-policy implementation to say create a port on provider router) | 16:12 |
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| banix | yeah admin will be able to say see endpoints / groups defined by different tenants | 16:12 |
| mestery | s3wong: Makes sense | 16:12 |
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| prasadv | i guess there could be an issue when there is a conflict between what admin configures and say another role restericted to tenant configures | 16:13 |
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| prasadv | which one takes precedence? | 16:14 |
| mestery | prasadv: That gets into the conflict resolution stuff we talked about a few weeks back I think. | 16:14 |
| banix | prasadv: So we had a simple conflict resolution mechanism | 16:15 |
| banix | that should apply regardless of admin/tenant. Right? | 16:15 |
| thinrichs | But I think prasadv brings up an interesting case. | 16:15 |
| prasadv | ok. I am thinking this is more of authorization policy right? | 16:15 |
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| s3wong | prasadv: that is an interesting case - so admin has some security group setup, and tenant's policy conflict with it? | 16:15 |
| thinrichs | We wouldn't want our admin to say 'drop', and the tenant to say 'allow', and for the tenant to win out. | 16:15 |
| s3wong | I would guess in that case, admin will win? | 16:15 |
| mestery | I think in this particular case, keystone policy would have to win out. | 16:16 |
| thinrichs | s3wong: that's what we'd want, but right now there's no mechanism for that. | 16:16 |
| prasadv | maybe this should be resolved by keystone and not by individual Openstack components | 16:16 |
| mestery | e.g. the admin user's group policy configuration supercedes the tenants | 16:16 |
| mestery | prasadv: Yes, that exactly. | 16:16 |
| banix | mestery: but keystone won't be involved ... | 16:16 |
| banix | mestery: ok | 16:16 |
| s3wong | mestery: that makes the most sense | 16:17 |
| banix | prasadv: I am not sure I see how this works | 16:17 |
| thinrichs | I'm confused: so Keystone is now accepting these policy rules we're creating here? | 16:17 |
| banix | keystone is not really involved. Is it? | 16:17 |
| prasadv | what I mean is whether a user has higher precence in terms of authorization is done by keystone | 16:17 |
| prasadv | say admin supercedes tenant role | 16:18 |
| banix | prasadv: You are saying keystone is consulted for conflict resolution? | 16:18 |
| mestery | When policies are created, won't they will have keystone auth attached to them, right? | 16:18 |
| prasadv | not sure now where this role based conflict resolution takes place | 16:19 |
| prasadv | i am sure this is not just a problem for neutron alone. This is a common problem across all of openstack right? | 16:19 |
| banix | mestery: Ok, carry on | 16:19 |
| thinrichs | prasadv: I'm guessing the implementation has to ensure that the policy it eventually enforces takes all these conflict resolution schemes into account. | 16:19 |
| thinrichs | Is it possible for 2 different tenant policies to conflict? Both tenants having VMs on the same machine or something? | 16:20 |
| thinrichs | If so, the keystone-based conflict resolution won't work. | 16:20 |
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| mestery | API calls into Neutron have tenant information attached banix, so we may need to take that into account when doing policy resolution is what I was thinking. | 16:20 |
| mestery | thinrichs: I think tenant roles need to be factored into the conflict resolution, but it's not the final resolution story for sure. | 16:21 |
| s3wong | mestery: so conflict resolution is done at the API layer here? | 16:21 |
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| mestery | At least for tenant resolution, maybe it has to be s3wong? | 16:21 |
| s3wong | mestery: it appears so, actually | 16:22 |
| banix | mestery: so at the creation of policy conflicts are detected? | 16:22 |
| mestery | banix: For tenant conflicts, maybe it has to be done then, yes. | 16:22 |
| banix | I see what you are saying | 16:22 |
| thinrichs | Why do we need to resolve conflicts within the API? Can we have the API just create a bunch of policies with IDs attached, and the implementation compiles that down into the real policy it is implementing? | 16:23 |
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| s3wong | banix: more interestingly, if tenant has an 'allow', then later on admin adds an 'deny', we would have to find a way to inform tenant his policy fails? | 16:23 |
| mestery | thinrichs: That is the other approach I was thinking yes, not sure which approach has advantages. | 16:23 |
| songole_ | thinrichs: agree | 16:23 |
| banix | so if assume admin creates a policy after a tenant has already created a policy and there is conflict, something we need to figure out what to do then. | 16:23 |
| banix | s3wong: that's what i was think about | 16:24 |
| thinrichs | We might need that more dynamic version anyway because users can change roles, which would require eliminating conflicts again. We wouldn't want to lose the policy rules they sent in initially. | 16:24 |
| prasadv | thinrichs: shouldnt we just limit it during creation? instead of doing it dynamically? | 16:25 |
| thinrichs | What would happen if a user changes roles *after* they finished inserting their policies but they didn't login again? Would Neutron even know their roles changed and that conflict resolution should be revisited? | 16:25 |
| banix | So just to narrow down the problem, our simple resolution method would be fine within a tenant. with checks done at policy creation time. Agree? | 16:25 |
| thinrichs | prasadv: Not sure--trying to understand the tradeoffs. | 16:25 |
| thinrichs | banix: not sure we'd do it at policy creation time. | 16:26 |
| songole_ | There could be pert issues with dynamic conflict resolution. | 16:26 |
| mestery | thinrichs: Is there a workflow in Horizon/CLI to change a users role? I'm asking because I don't know off-hand. | 16:26 |
| thinrichs | banix: Suppose two classifiers overlap--do we reject the policy? | 16:26 |
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| thinrichs | mestery: I don't know--I assumed user roles could change. | 16:26 |
| prasadv | i think keystone provides user to be put into different roles | 16:27 |
| mestery | thinrichs: I'm asking because we may be boiling the ocean here without knowing hte workflow in existing OpenStack use cases. :) | 16:27 |
| mestery | thinrichs: Want to take an action item to figure that out? | 16:27 |
| banix | thinrichs: yes | 16:27 |
| mestery | thinrichs: It would help us with resolution I think. :) | 16:27 |
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| thinrichs | banix: Is it always easy to determine if classifiers overlap? | 16:28 |
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| banix | that would be a good idea. | 16:28 |
| thinrichs | mestery: I'll figure out if roles can be changed in Keystone. | 16:28 |
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| banix | to look into this more closely | 16:28 |
| mestery | #action thinrichs to determine if roles can be changed in keystone | 16:28 |
| mestery | thanks thinrichs! | 16:28 |
| thinrichs | NP | 16:28 |
| mestery | OK, lets move on from that discussion until we figure out the underlying keystone stuff for next week. | 16:28 |
| banix | mestery: agree | 16:29 |
| s3wong | mestery: yes | 16:29 |
| s3wong | conflict resolution is an ongoing topic | 16:29 |
| mestery | OK, what else to discuss with regards to PoC this week? | 16:29 |
| mestery | Anything else? | 16:29 |
| banix | It is really cold around here :) | 16:29 |
| mestery | banix: So cold school was canceled again today :) | 16:30 |
| s3wong | banix: New York? | 16:30 |
| mestery | Minnesota here | 16:30 |
| banix | s3wong: yes | 16:30 |
| * s3wong enjoying sunny California | 16:30 | |
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| banix | Didn't hear the last sentence :) | 16:30 |
| thinrichs | BTW here's the info on Keystone. | 16:30 |
| mestery | s3wong: :P | 16:30 |
| thinrichs | user-project roles can be changed on the fly: http://docs.openstack.org/user-guide-admin/content/admin_cli_manage_projects_users.html | 16:30 |
| mestery | thinrichs: that was fast! | 16:30 |
| thinrichs | Had some help. | 16:31 |
| mestery | thinrichs: :) | 16:31 |
| s3wong | thinrichs: seems like we need a mechanism to inform tenants that their policies may be invalidated | 16:31 |
| mestery | s3wong: My thoughts exactly | 16:32 |
| banix | Let us think more about conflict resolution and perhaps discuss on ML? | 16:32 |
| banix | s3wong: Getting complicated | 16:32 |
| prasadv | s3wong, mestery: Isnt this a Openstack infrastrcuture issue and not just networking? | 16:32 |
| mestery | banix: Agreed! | 16:32 |
| mestery | prasadv: Yes | 16:33 |
| mestery | banix: Want to start the thread for the group on the ML? | 16:33 |
| s3wong | and to avoid confusion, in an event of invalidation, I would say all policies need to be invalidated | 16:33 |
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| s3wong | for that tenant | 16:33 |
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| thinrichs | Agreed to take it to the ML. | 16:33 |
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| s3wong | ML it is! | 16:33 |
| mestery | #action banix to start discussion around role changes on the ML | 16:33 |
| mestery | Anything else for this week with regards to PoC? | 16:34 |
| banix | Will do | 16:34 |
| s3wong | Happy coding, guys :-) | 16:34 |
| mestery | s3wong! Ha! | 16:34 |
| mestery | #topic Open Discussion | 16:34 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Open Discussion (Meeting topic: networking_policy)" | 16:34 | |
| mestery | Anything else or should we call it early this week? | 16:34 |
| banix | Thinrichs: Needless to say, please feel free to post to the ML regarding this. | 16:35 |
| s3wong | another quick meeting, three in a row! | 16:35 |
| mestery | Yes! | 16:35 |
| mestery | OK, lets see what we can get done with regards to PoC code for next week then. | 16:35 |
| banix | Sounds good | 16:35 |
| mestery | Thanks everyone! | 16:35 |
| mestery | #endmeeting | 16:35 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 16:35 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Thu Jan 23 16:35:30 2014 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 16:35 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/networking_policy/2014/networking_policy.2014-01-23-16.01.html | 16:35 |
| s3wong | Thanks | 16:35 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/networking_policy/2014/networking_policy.2014-01-23-16.01.txt | 16:35 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/networking_policy/2014/networking_policy.2014-01-23-16.01.log.html | 16:35 |
| songole_ | thanks | 16:35 |
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| SergeyLukjanov | savanna folks around? | 18:06 |
| dmitryme | yup | 18:06 |
| ErikB | Here | 18:06 |
| crobertsrh | yup | 18:07 |
| SergeyLukjanov | ok, looks like we have a quorum | 18:07 |
| SergeyLukjanov | #startmeeting savanna | 18:07 |
| openstack | Meeting started Thu Jan 23 18:07:28 2014 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is SergeyLukjanov. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 18:07 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 18:07 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: savanna)" | 18:07 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'savanna' | 18:07 |
| *** DinaBelova_ is now known as DinaBelova | 18:07 | |
| SergeyLukjanov | #topic Agenda | 18:08 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Agenda (Meeting topic: savanna)" | 18:08 | |
| SergeyLukjanov | #link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings/SavannaAgenda#Agenda_for_January.2C_23 | 18:08 |
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| SergeyLukjanov | action items are partially resolved | 18:08 |
| SergeyLukjanov | will make an update next time | 18:08 |
| SergeyLukjanov | #topic Icehouse-2 dev milestone | 18:08 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Icehouse-2 dev milestone (Meeting topic: savanna)" | 18:08 | |
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| SergeyLukjanov | #link http://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/openstack-dev/2014-January/025250.html | 18:09 |
| SergeyLukjanov | you can find links and details in this email | 18:09 |
| SergeyLukjanov | we've successfully delivered icehouse-2 with mostly all planned features and bugs fixed | 18:09 |
| SergeyLukjanov | so, my congratulations! | 18:10 |
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| mattf | congrats all! | 18:10 |
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| ErikB | Great job everyone! | 18:10 |
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| SergeyLukjanov | it's our second dev milestone | 18:10 |
| mattf | it's terrific to see all the progress on heat integration | 18:11 |
| aignatov | hurrrah! | 18:11 |
| alazarev | congrats! | 18:11 |
| SergeyLukjanov | it was handled by ttx | 18:11 |
| SergeyLukjanov | for the main savanna project | 18:11 |
| SergeyLukjanov | ok, let's move on | 18:11 |
| SergeyLukjanov | #topic News / updates | 18:12 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "News / updates (Meeting topic: savanna)" | 18:12 | |
| SergeyLukjanov | folks, please | 18:12 |
| SergeyLukjanov | share news | 18:12 |
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| SergeyLukjanov | preferably good news, because I have some bad ones | 18:12 |
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| crobertsrh | UI part of java actions and HDFS are up for review, seem positive so far. | 18:12 |
| mattf | just a few -create cli commands short of having full coverage of the v1.1 api | 18:12 |
| ErikB | On the HDP side, we are moving forward with EDP change, Blueprints, DiskBuilder and docs | 18:12 |
| tmckay | I'm looking at more Oozie actions now, streaming mapreduce first | 18:12 |
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| dmitryme | I'am replacing SSH configuring with the guest agent | 18:13 |
| aignatov | continue working on Heat integration polishing, fixing some bugs, also yesterday I've realised that savanna heat engine does;t working with heat in master | 18:13 |
| SergeyLukjanov | ErikB, that's awesome to hear about dib elements for HDP | 18:14 |
| aignatov | because of https://bugs.launchpad.net/heat/+bug/1271597 | 18:14 |
| alazarev | I'm working on blogpost about data locality support, hopefully will be published soon | 18:14 |
| ErikB | SergeyLukjanov, will be a good change and Bob should me merging shortly. | 18:14 |
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| aignatov | but seems the bug will be fixed in the heat side soon | 18:15 |
| bob_nettleton | I hope to submit a patch for the HDP DIB elements sometime over the next few days. | 18:15 |
| aignatov | bob_nettleton: awesome!! | 18:15 |
| SergeyLukjanov | bob_nettleton, awesome, ping me or mattf if any questions | 18:15 |
| bob_nettleton | great. thanks! | 18:15 |
| * mattf gets his meat grinder ready | 18:16 | |
| ErikB | SergeyLukjanov, what is the bad news… | 18:16 |
| SergeyLukjanov | the bad news are about Savanna project naming | 18:16 |
| mattf | forcing us to add a trailing h? | 18:16 |
| ErikB | ;-) | 18:16 |
| dmitryme | mattf, lol | 18:16 |
| SergeyLukjanov | I've contacted OpenStack Foundation marketing team to ensure that we're using consumable names | 18:16 |
| * mattf hands out Gs Ns and Us | 18:17 | |
| * SergeyLukjanov looking for the bad link | 18:17 | |
| SergeyLukjanov | aaaaand | 18:17 |
| SergeyLukjanov | #link http://www.thetus.com/savanna | 18:17 |
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| mattf | other than savannah, we're almost past out painful name collision with "havana" | 18:17 |
| SergeyLukjanov | mattf, yep, but it's not so bad | 18:18 |
| aignatov | :-( so we should rename our wonderful project Savanna, right? | 18:18 |
| SergeyLukjanov | aignatov, yep | 18:18 |
| * mattf groans | 18:18 | |
| SergeyLukjanov | and we should at least find the new name in next 2-4 weeks | 18:18 |
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| SergeyLukjanov | to be able to rename the world before the graduation review | 18:19 |
| mattf | SergeyLukjanov, have a pointer to the trademark registration? | 18:19 |
| aignatov | proposing new name - Saratov :) | 18:19 |
| SergeyLukjanov | mattf, their project was released first time Feb 2010 | 18:19 |
| SergeyLukjanov | and so it's at least bad to use the same name | 18:19 |
| SergeyLukjanov | because it's a project in the same area - cloud, hadoop | 18:20 |
| DinaBelova | SergeyLukjanov you may combine the fact you need new name with the fact you are not only Hadoop now - you are "Data processing" OS program | 18:20 |
| DinaBelova | SergeyLukjanov, and elephants topic (Savanna) seems to be not right now, really :) | 18:20 |
| SergeyLukjanov | that's the only pros I see... | 18:20 |
| DinaBelova | so maybe renaming is a good idea anyway | 18:20 |
| SergeyLukjanov | nope, I really love the Savanna naming! | 18:21 |
| DinaBelova | :D | 18:21 |
| aignatov | it could be an elephant topic still, why not? | 18:21 |
| alazarev | we can use 'Savannah' :D | 18:21 |
| SergeyLukjanov | I dislike h | 18:21 |
| mattf | SergeyLukjanov, do they have a trademark on the name Savanna, is the os foundation going to acquire a trademark on our name? | 18:21 |
| SergeyLukjanov | mattf, I'll clarify that | 18:21 |
| tmckay | How about "Grassland" ? :) | 18:21 |
| SergeyLukjanov | :) | 18:22 |
| tmckay | StackVanna? | 18:22 |
| aignatov | lol! | 18:22 |
| SergeyLukjanov | I'll start a ML thread when ensure all details | 18:22 |
| SergeyLukjanov | and we'll try to find the better name | 18:23 |
| SergeyLukjanov | than npthing ;) | 18:23 |
| SergeyLukjanov | I hope that will find the great naming that'll be ok for all ofus | 18:23 |
| alazarev | we should at least 1. check is Savanna is really registered 2. contact thetus and try to buy name | 18:23 |
| mattf | is there an existing trademark on Savanna? is the openstack foundation going to trademark our eventual name? | 18:23 |
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| SergeyLukjanov | mattf, I'll ask foundation about that | 18:24 |
| SergeyLukjanov | don't worry :) | 18:24 |
| mattf | this is going to be especially rough on ErikB, who still uses quantum | 18:24 |
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| mattf | ErikB, we're here to help | 18:24 |
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| DinaBelova | Even Google don't know about these Thetus Savanna :) Try "cloud hadoop savanna" - you'll see only your Savanna | 18:25 |
| DinaBelova | don't -> doesn't | 18:26 |
| mattf | this stuff is best left to the lawyers, but we definitely should jump ship on the name unless we have a solid reason | 18:26 |
| SergeyLukjanov | DinaBelova, that's right, but it looks like it'll not help us :( | 18:26 |
| SergeyLukjanov | heh, so, to summarize | 18:27 |
| SergeyLukjanov | I'll talk again with foundation folks to clarify stuff | 18:27 |
| SergeyLukjanov | and than start a mailing thread (if needed) to find the name | 18:28 |
| SergeyLukjanov | let's move on | 18:28 |
| SergeyLukjanov | #topic Meeting re-org | 18:28 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Meeting re-org (Meeting topic: savanna)" | 18:28 | |
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| SergeyLukjanov | I was thinking about how our meeting working now and have some ideas | 18:28 |
| SergeyLukjanov | I'd like to share them and receive some feedback | 18:28 |
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| SergeyLukjanov | #1 add topics with topic chairs how will be responsible for them | 18:29 |
| SergeyLukjanov | like Heat integration update or CI status | 18:29 |
| aignatov | how->who? | 18:29 |
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| SergeyLukjanov | yep | 18:29 |
| SergeyLukjanov | it could contain about 1-2 sentences with short clearly defined status news | 18:30 |
| SergeyLukjanov | status/news | 18:30 |
| SergeyLukjanov | idea #2: | 18:30 |
| SergeyLukjanov | heh, I completely forgot the second idea | 18:30 |
| SergeyLukjanov | any thoughts on the first one? | 18:30 |
| mattf | i guess we can settle #2 then | 18:30 |
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| SergeyLukjanov | :) | 18:31 |
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| mattf | #1 could just be a rundown of active bps, each has an assignee | 18:31 |
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| aignatov | what is the difference between idea1 and what is happening right now when we just say news/updates? | 18:31 |
| mattf | i think we get the information into the minutes anyway. if there's value in structuring it more, i'm ok witht hat | 18:31 |
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| aignatov | Chad works on the UI, he updates us about it, Trevor owirks on EDP, he updates us, I work on Heat, I update you | 18:32 |
| aignatov | owirks -> works :) | 18:33 |
| SergeyLukjanov | aignatov, that's correct | 18:33 |
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| SergeyLukjanov | the idea was to ensure that all parts are covered | 18:33 |
| alazarev | I also don't see difference with what we have right now | 18:33 |
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| SergeyLukjanov | for example I'd like to see CI status updates | 18:33 |
| mattf | afaict #1 is some added structure, seems low overhead, but the added value hasn't been articulated yet | 18:34 |
| SergeyLukjanov | probably structuring is overcomplexity | 18:34 |
| alazarev | SergeyLukjanov: if you like CI updates - you can always ask about it | 18:34 |
| SergeyLukjanov | alazarev, I'd like to avoid pings, just short updates | 18:34 |
| SergeyLukjanov | because we already have enough stuff that could be shared weekly | 18:35 |
| SergeyLukjanov | so, currently it looks for me that we could distribute interesting topics between folks and everyone will now what should he/she cover | 18:35 |
| SergeyLukjanov | and will be able to prepare | 18:36 |
| SergeyLukjanov | for ex. | 18:36 |
| SergeyLukjanov | if you really dislike such idea | 18:36 |
| SergeyLukjanov | write about it :) | 18:36 |
| SergeyLukjanov | any thoughts? | 18:37 |
| mattf | i'm ambivalent | 18:38 |
| ErikB | same here | 18:38 |
| alazarev | sounds reasonable, the only thing needed is a list of topics with assignments, don't think that we need some kind of ball passing | 18:38 |
| jmaron | I'm ambi-normal | 18:38 |
| crobertsrh | Seems like it's worth a shot. Maybe it will help someone with something. If not, we can always change back. | 18:38 |
| aignatov | well, I still do not see the much difference, but we can try, maybe I didn't get your idea | 18:39 |
| SergeyLukjanov | alazarev, sure, w/o ball passing, just updates | 18:39 |
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| SergeyLukjanov | aignatov, I'd like to ensure that we have an aggregated weekly updates | 18:39 |
| SergeyLukjanov | personally I think that it's awesome to have a weekly updates in meeting logs | 18:40 |
| SergeyLukjanov | any thoughts on topics that should be covered? | 18:40 |
| alazarev | as I understand the difference, there will be update on CI even if there are no much changes in CI | 18:40 |
| alazarev | SergeyLukjanov: is my understanding right? | 18:40 |
| aignatov | alazarev: exactly | 18:41 |
| ErikB | it would be good to get update on 'active' blueprints | 18:41 |
| SergeyLukjanov | alazarev, I'd like to see some stats for CI for example | 18:41 |
| SergeyLukjanov | from CI guys | 18:41 |
| mattf | ErikB, nice idea | 18:41 |
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| SergeyLukjanov | ErikB, agreed | 18:41 |
| aignatov | ErikB: good point | 18:41 |
| jmaron | dependency updates. I stumbled (painfully) across the new need for mysql and postgres installs on my dev obx | 18:41 |
| jmaron | box | 18:41 |
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| alazarev | so, we just need to document list of topics somewhere | 18:42 |
| alazarev | not much changes to existing structure | 18:42 |
| mattf | i painfully stumbled on use_namespaces requiring savanna-api be run as root, oof | 18:42 |
| jmaron | that wasn't that painful… ;) | 18:42 |
| SergeyLukjanov | I'll try to list topics to the next meeting | 18:43 |
| mattf | maybe not for you! | 18:43 |
| SergeyLukjanov | let's move on to the open discussion | 18:43 |
| jmaron | (btw, any luck corralling neutron experts) | 18:43 |
| SergeyLukjanov | #topic General discussion | 18:43 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "General discussion (Meeting topic: savanna)" | 18:43 | |
| mattf | some | 18:43 |
| mattf | general topic from last week - everyone wants the cli to support IDs and NAMEs | 18:43 |
| jmaron | I would hope there's a way to configure the nature of the namespace creation | 18:44 |
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| mattf | everyone also wants the savanna api (rest) to support them so the client can be thin | 18:44 |
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| SergeyLukjanov | mattf, btw, how is your cli work? do you have estimates to name it beta cli? | 18:44 |
| mattf | i did some digging and it looks like we may be unique in having that functionality in our rest api | 18:44 |
| jmaron | trail blazers! | 18:44 |
| SergeyLukjanov | mattf, all projects support it on the client side | 18:44 |
| mattf | sooooo... how strongly do people want the client to be thin? | 18:44 |
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| mattf | SergeyLukjanov, yeah, where were you last week to tell us that!? | 18:45 |
| SergeyLukjanov | because mostly all other project have no constraint on resource name | 18:45 |
| * mattf has since learned this | 18:45 | |
| SergeyLukjanov | I was on the PTL's webinar :) | 18:45 |
| mattf | excuses excuses | 18:45 |
| mattf | so, unless someone who hasn't been hitting the hwx bar pressures me really hard, the name support is going to be client side - at least for the first pass i write | 18:46 |
| SergeyLukjanov | at least for the v1.1 api | 18:46 |
| mattf | yeah, i dunno what magical support will be unlocked with the new v2 impl that may use an entirely different framework | 18:46 |
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| SergeyLukjanov | mattf, I'd like to not harry with v2 api and include all nice features to it | 18:47 |
| SergeyLukjanov | that all of us dreaming about ;) | 18:47 |
| mattf | that's nice, we can have a dv2 (dream v2) too | 18:47 |
| SergeyLukjanov | like /v2/beer/one-more-please | 18:48 |
| mattf | in the meantime, i'll be busy on v2 | 18:48 |
| SergeyLukjanov | mattf, are you planning to complete your 'run_tests.sh'? | 18:48 |
| mattf | sounds like no objections to name search on the client side, thank! | 18:48 |
| SergeyLukjanov | mattf, not from my side | 18:48 |
| mattf | SergeyLukjanov, i'll take a look again this week, but it was still busted for savanna | 18:49 |
| alazarev | mattf: name search on client side looks fine | 18:49 |
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| mattf | as for v1 and v1.1 - i'm a little disturbed that we store swift creds and pass them around | 18:49 |
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| mattf | i'm curious about how we happen to call them credentials in one call and extra in another though | 18:49 |
| SergeyLukjanov | we need to add the corresponding properties to the filter | 18:49 |
| SergeyLukjanov | to not return back them from the rest api | 18:50 |
| aignatov | tmckay: I had a quick look at the savanna channel and observed that you plan to start working on the streaming api for edp | 18:50 |
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| mattf | data-sources uses credentials, job-binaries uses extra | 18:50 |
| mattf | if no one speaks up, i'll probably propose them both as "credentials" for v2 | 18:51 |
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| tmckay | aignatov, yes | 18:51 |
| ErikB | +1 | 18:51 |
| * mattf might even if folks speak up | 18:51 | |
| tmckay | I have a question about that, but I have to run to the doctor | 18:51 |
| aignatov | tmckay: ok, we can talk later about it | 18:52 |
| tmckay | aignatov, essentially, should streaming map-reduce be a new job type, or extra options for current map-reduce job type? | 18:52 |
| tmckay | it effects crobertsrh, we should consider ease of use in the UI | 18:52 |
| mattf | another oddity i found - clusters have a status property that provides you info about what you'd expect, cluster status | 18:52 |
| mattf | job-executions have an info property that has a status property that tells you about the job-execution | 18:52 |
| aignatov | tmckay: as I remember streaming is the subset of common MapReduce, right? | 18:52 |
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| alazarev | mattf: +1 on minimizing extra | 18:52 |
| tmckay | yes | 18:52 |
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| mattf | anyone know why cluster.status and job-executino.info.status or know why they should be the same? | 18:53 |
| mattf | alazarev, thx | 18:53 |
| mattf | ErikB, thx | 18:53 |
| mattf | s/why they should/why they should not/ | 18:53 |
| aignatov | tmckay: maybe in the UI side it should be as a separate job type but in the core EDP... | 18:53 |
| SergeyLukjanov | mattf, I'd like to have j_e.status | 18:53 |
| aignatov | how simple to implement :) | 18:53 |
| tmckay | aignatov, could be, I had that thought to. talk to you soon | 18:54 |
| SergeyLukjanov | we have 6 mins | 18:54 |
| * mattf can be done | 18:54 | |
| aignatov | tmckay: not today, ok? tomorrow, ping me | 18:54 |
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| tmckay | ack | 18:54 |
| alazarev | mattf: does job-executino.info contain something other than status? | 18:55 |
| mattf | alazarev, afaik, no | 18:55 |
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| jmaron | 'info': {'status': 'Pending'}, | 18:55 |
| alazarev | mattf: may be something was supposed... | 18:56 |
| mattf | ok, keep an eye out. i'll probably propose it gets collapsed for v2 | 18:57 |
| SergeyLukjanov | mattf, ok | 18:58 |
| SergeyLukjanov | looks like we're out of time | 18:59 |
| SergeyLukjanov | thank you all! | 18:59 |
| SergeyLukjanov | have a good night/day | 18:59 |
| SergeyLukjanov | #endmeeting | 18:59 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 18:59 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Thu Jan 23 18:59:16 2014 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 18:59 |
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| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/savanna/2014/savanna.2014-01-23-18.07.html | 18:59 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/savanna/2014/savanna.2014-01-23-18.07.txt | 18:59 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/savanna/2014/savanna.2014-01-23-18.07.log.html | 18:59 |
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| markwash | #startmeeting glance | 20:00 |
| openstack | Meeting started Thu Jan 23 20:00:00 2014 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is markwash. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 20:00 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 20:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: glance)" | 20:00 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'glance' | 20:00 |
| markwash | hi glance folks | 20:00 |
| arnaud | hi | 20:00 |
| markwash | arnaud: o/ :-) | 20:00 |
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| markwash | rosmaita iccha ameade nikhil__ esheffield flwang flaper87 zhiyan hemanth_ | 20:01 |
| markwash | highlight time! | 20:01 |
| markwash | #topic agenda | 20:01 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "agenda (Meeting topic: glance)" | 20:01 | |
| sharwell_ | hi everyone :) | 20:01 |
| markwash | we're a bit light today | 20:01 |
| zhiyan | hi! | 20:02 |
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| markwash | I myself am just in "get ready for the mini summit" mode | 20:02 |
| markwash | so I thought we could just talk about that a bit, if anyone has questions | 20:02 |
| rosmaita | i don't know, will hi mark | 20:02 |
| rosmaita | i mean "hello" | 20:02 |
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| markwash | so anyone have any other topics they want to discuss today other than the mini summit? | 20:03 |
| sharwell_ | i'm up for talking about schemas if you want to, but definitely don't have to if it's not the right time | 20:03 |
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| markwash | sharwell_: looks like we'll have time | 20:04 |
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| markwash | last call for suggestions. . . | 20:04 |
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| markwash | all right | 20:05 |
| markwash | #topic mini summit this monday | 20:05 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "mini summit this monday (Meeting topic: glance)" | 20:05 | |
| markwash | I'm working on the broadcasting angle at the moment | 20:05 |
| markwash | I'm trying to pick a solution that can be picked up internationally | 20:05 |
| markwash | the plan is for remote participants to be able to watch, but I think we'll just have to have some local participants in IRC who can relay questions and thoughts | 20:06 |
| markwash | watch and listen, I mean, of course | 20:07 |
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| markwash | I'd also love it if anyone who has etherpads for their sessions could provide links | 20:07 |
| markwash | not quite sure how to fit that into the wiki page | 20:08 |
| markwash | #link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Glance/IcehouseCycleMeetup | 20:08 |
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| markwash | that's it for updates for me, anyone have questions? | 20:08 |
| markwash | #topic open discussion | 20:10 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "open discussion (Meeting topic: glance)" | 20:10 | |
| ameade | we are lurking btw lol | 20:10 |
| markwash | sorry not much content today folks, but we can always just have our time back :-) | 20:10 |
| rosmaita | i think sam has some comments about schemas :) | 20:10 |
| markwash | sharwell_: wanna talk about schemas here? or if | 20:10 |
| sharwell_ | or if? | 20:11 |
| markwash | sorry | 20:11 |
| sharwell_ | here is fine for me | 20:11 |
| markwash | okay sounds good | 20:11 |
| markwash | sharwell_: care to introduce the topic? | 20:11 |
| sharwell_ | So as rosmaita knows, I've taken particular interest in the introduction of json schemas to this api, along with some of the others | 20:11 |
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| markwash | sharwell_: I take it you've been trying to use them while writing some client-side tooling? or am I mistaken. . | 20:13 |
| sharwell_ | what i'd like to accomplish is working towards creating a combination of a schema development strategy and an associated breaking changes policy that meets the requirements of both developers using openstack APIs and the requirement of openstack projects to incorporate extensions, new functionality, and/or customizable portions of the software installation process of individual users | 20:13 |
| sharwell_ | that ended with "individual users" did the message come through? | 20:14 |
| markwash | yes I think so | 20:14 |
| sharwell_ | thanks | 20:14 |
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| sharwell_ | i believe everyone agrees about the benefits json schema brings to the table regarding communicating the behavior of our apis | 20:15 |
| markwash | well | 20:15 |
| markwash | maybe :-) | 20:15 |
| markwash | I think if we were using them a bit better, we'd get the benefit we were aiming at | 20:15 |
| sharwell_ | meaning it's ok for me to focus on addressing problems that have been observed without explaining why we're trying to keep it around | 20:16 |
| markwash | heh sure | 20:16 |
| markwash | I'm curious if you hae some examples of the types of problems | 20:17 |
| sharwell_ | I believe our target should be including "a valid reference schema" for items found in requests and responses in our API reference. | 20:17 |
| rosmaita | i wonder whether the schema fix should be targeted for v3 ? | 20:17 |
| rosmaita | because i think we're going to have to have different request/response schemas | 20:18 |
| rosmaita | and that's a big change | 20:18 |
| sharwell_ | The primary challenges are 1) ensuring that the schema is update and 2) ensuring that the schema does not box the project in to the point that it can't be extended to meet customer/company requirements | 20:18 |
| markwash | rosmaita: we haven't talked a lot about what v3 might look like, I'm curious if we even want schemas for it in the way we have them today | 20:20 |
| markwash | I'm a bit skeptical these days about schemas hosted on the api server | 20:20 |
| markwash | publishing static schemas per api minor revision seems quite good still | 20:20 |
| sharwell_ | schemas hosted on the api server are able to communicate certain infromation that we will never be able to include in the api reference | 20:20 |
| rosmaita | i think we need a kind of "vision statement" for what we want the schemas to do | 20:21 |
| rosmaita | i've always thought of them as guidelines, not contracts | 20:21 |
| rosmaita | but that's just me | 20:21 |
| markwash | sharwell_: true.. what kind of killer usecase can you think of for that feature, though? | 20:21 |
| sharwell_ | for example, the name of an image has a maximum length that is likely configurable as part of the software installation. the api reference wouldn't include a maxLength for this field, but the API could return a schema that does include this property with the current value in effect for that installation | 20:21 |
| markwash | okay sure | 20:22 |
| sharwell_ | in addition, json schema does not prevent you from using properties that lie outside the schema (i.e. objects can include properties that are not validated) | 20:22 |
| markwash | another use case that is nice is communicating which properties are allowed on a POST or PATCH, but it is sometimes hard as I don't know a good way to communicate "negative" patterns | 20:23 |
| markwash | i.e., a property can be anything except "billing_foo" | 20:23 |
| markwash | but I might just be a bit rusty on my jsonschema | 20:23 |
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| sharwell_ | the api reference could omit custom properties, while the api call itself might return information about custom properties | 20:23 |
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| sharwell_ | this fact is the primary reason why i believe you can include authoritative schemas in the api reference without fear of them getting "out of date" | 20:24 |
| sharwell_ | you would just need to include a message that the server may support properties for objects which are not described by the schema, and the service provider will define the meaning of any such custom properties | 20:26 |
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| markwash | what exactly does a client do with that kind of schema information though? | 20:27 |
| sharwell_ | markwash: are you referring to a schema in the api reference, or a schema returned by an api call | 20:27 |
| markwash | it can do local validation, but its not clear to me that its a huge win over remote validation. . | 20:28 |
| markwash | api call | 20:28 |
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| markwash | sorry I don't mean to be overly skeptical. . I'm just struggling atm for the vision that rosmaita was talking about | 20:29 |
| sharwell_ | i'm more concerned today with communicating the meaning of schemas in the api reference. i.e. what long-term guarantees does a client developer have in relation to the schema they read about in the api reference. | 20:30 |
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| rosmaita | so would it be better to have no shcemas at all? | 20:31 |
| rosmaita | rahter than inaccurate ones? | 20:31 |
| sharwell_ | i believe that by documenting only a required subset of the total set of resource properties, we can ensure that "inaccurate" never happens, while at the same time providing more concrete guarantees than has ever been seen before in OS documentation | 20:32 |
| markwash | sharwell_: we aim for 100% backwards compatibility but I wouldn't be surprised if we missed a bit | 20:32 |
| markwash | and we don't necessarily do so exclusively in terms of the schema | 20:32 |
| sharwell_ | or any web api documentation for that matter | 20:33 |
| markwash | i.e. if the behavior differs from the schema we might be stuck keeping both for backwards compatibility :-( | 20:33 |
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| markwash | sharwell_: but in any case, what kind of changes do you have in mind? | 20:36 |
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| sharwell_ | markwash: i'd like to help prepare schemas for the api reference that we can treat as authoritative, and used as a guide for any glance updates made through the icehouse release | 20:37 |
| markwash | ooh, with some validation we can try out to prevent regressions? | 20:37 |
| sharwell_ | i'm not 100% confident, but i believe it is possible to automate a "compatibility analysis" of two schemas to highlight if and where new properties could cause bugs to appear in code that follows the old schema | 20:38 |
| sharwell_ | this type of analysis falls square within my research interests :) | 20:39 |
| markwash | it may also work to run the api schema against the api to verify they match up | 20:39 |
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| markwash | but in any case, valid schemas for long term supported behavior sounds great | 20:41 |
| markwash | I think we can probably sign up for that without any concerns | 20:41 |
| markwash | sharwell_: there are sort of two steps in this process, 1) this discussion, 2) writing up a blueprint (which can be brief) | 20:42 |
| markwash | do you want to look into #2 and then we can meet up again in 2 weeks to review? | 20:42 |
| markwash | or is there already a blueprint? | 20:42 |
| markwash | (also if the blueprint is ready faster you can just ping for review in #openstack-glance) | 20:43 |
| sharwell_ | sure. i'll look into writing a blueprint describing a breaking changes policy for json schemas used by various APIs | 20:43 |
| sharwell_ | if we define the breaking changes policy, then it becomes easy to ask if a particular schema is likely to cause problems in that context | 20:44 |
| markwash | eys | 20:44 |
| markwash | yes | 20:44 |
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| rosmaita | +1 | 20:44 |
| markwash | I think defining "breaking changes" in a crunchy way we can evaluate more rigorously would be a huge benefit | 20:45 |
| markwash | right now, avoiding them is mostly based on gut-feeling | 20:45 |
| markwash | which is obviously not a good long term policy | 20:45 |
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| markwash | if we controlled clients, we could do this quite simply -- we could test all of them | 20:46 |
| sharwell_ | markwash: that often works, I just think we have some cool tools at our disposal that allows us to do even better | 20:46 |
| markwash | sharwell_: +1 | 20:46 |
| rosmaita | sharwell_: this sounds good, thanks for taking this on | 20:47 |
| markwash | yes indeed, thank you | 20:47 |
| sharwell_ | no problem, i think about these things in my free time anyway | 20:47 |
| sharwell_ | "free time" | 20:47 |
| markwash | :-) | 20:49 |
| markwash | all right, seems we're exhausted for today | 20:49 |
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| markwash | unless anyone has another item, I'll close it out and look forward to seeing many of you next week | 20:50 |
| rosmaita | see you next week! | 20:51 |
| markwash | #endmeeting | 20:52 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 20:52 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Thu Jan 23 20:52:00 2014 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 20:52 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/glance/2014/glance.2014-01-23-20.00.html | 20:52 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/glance/2014/glance.2014-01-23-20.00.txt | 20:52 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/glance/2014/glance.2014-01-23-20.00.log.html | 20:52 |
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