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| kgriffs | FYI the Marconi meeting will be in one hour (1900 UTC) | 18:02 |
|---|---|---|
| kgriffs | I'm available for a few minutes to answer any questions re Falcon. | 18:02 |
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| kgriffs | FYI the Marconi meeting will be in one hour (1900 UTC) | 18:04 |
| * kgriffs curses daylight saving's time | 18:04 | |
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| heckj | kgriffs: stupid question - what's "Marconi"? | 18:13 |
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| kgriffs | heckj: https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Marconi | 18:24 |
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| heckj | thanks | 18:26 |
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| kgriffs | no problem | 18:29 |
| kgriffs | Thought the wiki could say it better than me. | 18:29 |
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| yidclare | kgriffs: what's the marconi channel on IRC? | 18:56 |
| yidclare | tried #marconi no-one there. :) | 18:57 |
| kgriffs | yidclare: #openstack-marconi | 18:57 |
| yidclare | thanks | 18:57 |
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| kgriffs | #startmeeting marconi | 19:04 |
| openstack | Meeting started Thu Mar 21 19:04:57 2013 UTC. The chair is kgriffs. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 19:04 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 19:04 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: marconi)" | 19:05 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'marconi' | 19:05 |
| flaper87 | o/ | 19:05 |
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| kgriffs | ok, before we get rolling, any items folks want to add to the agenda? | 19:05 |
| kgriffs | https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings/Marconi | 19:06 |
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| kgriffs | #topic sate of the projects | 19:07 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "sate of the projects (Meeting topic: marconi)" | 19:07 | |
| kgriffs | #topic state of the project | 19:07 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "state of the project (Meeting topic: marconi)" | 19:07 | |
| kgriffs | so, any questions or should I just give a summary? | 19:08 |
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| flaper87 | kgriffs: summary sounds good | 19:09 |
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| flaper87 | some questions might come out of there | 19:09 |
| kgriffs | OK, so we have queue management mostly done | 19:09 |
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| kgriffs | This week we started working on message CRUD | 19:09 |
| kgriffs | We are trying to get closure on the v1 API, but I think it's stable enough to implement on | 19:10 |
| kgriffs | Doubtless there will be tweaks in the coming months, esp. at the summit | 19:10 |
| kgriffs | We are close to getting python-marconiclient on stackforge, etc. | 19:11 |
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| flaper87 | kgriffs: +2 storage drivers in good progress | 19:11 |
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| kgriffs | (the foundational stuff is in a different repo) | 19:12 |
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| kgriffs | yes, so we have sqlite and mongo drivers in progress | 19:12 |
| kgriffs | sqlite is pretty much for testing, demos, and stuff like that | 19:12 |
| flaper87 | kgriffs: perhaps we should send an email to openstack-dev requesting reviews for the python-marconiclient | 19:12 |
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| jdprax | flaper87: Yeah, I just got some additional feedback and a -1. https://review.openstack.org/#/c/24807/ | 19:13 |
| jdprax | They want me to add pypi configs before merging. | 19:14 |
| jdprax | :-/ | 19:14 |
| jdprax | Doesn't look like a big deal. | 19:14 |
| flaper87 | jdprax: cool | 19:15 |
| kgriffs | A few more things I just wanted to mention real quick FYI. We have 3 core contributors now handling code reviews through Gerrit: Jamie (jdprax), Flavio (flaper87), and myself (Kurt). | 19:15 |
| kgriffs | We've also been busy adding blueprints, and updating the wiki. | 19:16 |
| kgriffs | Also, our code is now pep8-friendly, and we have a pretty good HACKING file (still needs a few tweaks) | 19:16 |
| kgriffs | so, there's never been a better time to become a Marconi contributor (hint, hint) | 19:16 |
| kgriffs | Our first big milestone is a demo at the Portland summit | 19:17 |
| kgriffs | (our talk was accepted) | 19:17 |
| flaper87 | w000000t | 19:17 |
| kgriffs | so, if you have any cool ideas for a demo give us a shout out in #openstack-marconi | 19:18 |
| kgriffs | OK, any questions before we move on? | 19:18 |
| * kgriffs listens to crickets chirping | 19:19 | |
| kgriffs | #topic API - Maximum queues/page | 19:19 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "API - Maximum queues/page (Meeting topic: marconi)" | 19:19 | |
| kgriffs | OK, so as the blueprints are currently written, Marconi limits queue metadata to 4 KiB. | 19:20 |
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| kgriffs | So, if we allow clients to list 100 queues at a time, that's not a ton of data - should be doable even if you buffer in memory, although we'll likely code such that everything is streamed. | 19:21 |
| kgriffs | Questions/concerns? https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Marconi/specs/api/v1#List_Queues | 19:21 |
| flaper87 | sounds good to me! | 19:22 |
| jdprax | +1 | 19:22 |
| kgriffs | irc://card.freenode.net:7000/#topic API - Maximum queues/page | 19:23 |
| kgriffs | same deal. 4 KiB per message body, 100 messages per request returned | 19:23 |
| kgriffs | #topic API - Maximum queues/page | 19:23 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "API - Maximum queues/page (Meeting topic: marconi)" | 19:23 | |
| kgriffs | OK, so I'll take that as a "+1" | 19:24 |
| kgriffs | :D | 19:25 |
| flaper87 | :D | 19:25 |
| jdprax | Anyone have a good ascii art cricket? | 19:25 |
| kgriffs | #topic API - Claim Messages | 19:25 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "API - Claim Messages (Meeting topic: marconi)" | 19:25 | |
| kgriffs | https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Marconi/specs/api/v1#Claim_Messages | 19:26 |
| kgriffs | so, it would be cool if everyone could read over that real quick and share your thoughts | 19:26 |
| kgriffs | any concerns there? | 19:29 |
| flaper87 | kgriffs: just re-read it and seems ok so far | 19:29 |
| bryansd-home | The WARNING under Claim Messages, can you explain that a little more? | 19:29 |
| flaper87 | I'm still a bit worried about the ttl thing | 19:29 |
| kgriffs | sure | 19:30 |
| bryansd-home | I don't see how you can ever know that the TTL of the claim will be less than that of the messages | 19:30 |
| kgriffs | typically your application would agree on something reasonable. | 19:30 |
| kgriffs | So producers would always set ttl of messages to X or at minimum X | 19:30 |
| flaper87 | kgriffs: so, here's an idea | 19:31 |
| kgriffs | and workers would set claims to some percentage of X, depending on average time to process a given message | 19:31 |
| kgriffs | typically you'd just set the ttl for messages to something like 5 days and the ttl for a claim to 5 minutes | 19:32 |
| kgriffs | flaper87: shoot | 19:32 |
| flaper87 | since clients don't know, as bryansd-home also pointed out, what the reasonable ttl would be and we won't be able to "make sure" that messages being claimed wont expire before the claim expires, what if don't make claimed messages expire until the claim expires as well | 19:34 |
| flaper87 | so, if the message would expire before the claim expires we would extend the message expiration / ttl 'til the claim expires | 19:35 |
| jdprax | Sounds reasonable to me. | 19:35 |
| bryansd-home | +1 | 19:36 |
| kgriffs | so, adjust the claim ttl to be min(requested_ttl, max(claimed_messages_ttl)) | 19:36 |
| kgriffs | sory | 19:36 |
| kgriffs | max | 19:36 |
| flaper87 | kind of. So, if a message expires in 30s and it was claimed and the claim ttl is 60, the message's ttl would be 60s | 19:37 |
| flaper87 | we give it a 30s life coupon | 19:37 |
| flaper87 | :) | 19:37 |
| kgriffs | oic | 19:37 |
| kgriffs | sure | 19:37 |
| kgriffs | +1 | 19:38 |
| flaper87 | cool, place an agreed there | 19:38 |
| flaper87 | :P | 19:38 |
| bryansd-home | I like this. Then a consumer can have some confidence it'll have enough processing time to get through the message. | 19:38 |
| jdprax | Yep. | 19:38 |
| flaper87 | bryansd-home: correct, were processing time == claim ttl | 19:38 |
| bryansd-home | Whereas before it may "claim" a message with only 1s ttl... chaos | 19:38 |
| flaper87 | bryansd-home: lol | 19:38 |
| kgriffs | #agreed claim ttls should be adjusted for 30s past the largest age of the messages at claim time | 19:39 |
| kgriffs | #note use age of messages not ttl | 19:39 |
| flaper87 | no wait, that's not the idea | 19:40 |
| flaper87 | :P | 19:40 |
| bryansd-home | kgriffs: I think we're talking about extending the age of messages, not claims | 19:40 |
| flaper87 | bryansd-home: correct | 19:40 |
| kgriffs | oh, oops. got it backwards | 19:40 |
| kgriffs | so, extend age of messages to 30s past expiration of the claim? | 19:41 |
| kgriffs | (if needed) | 19:41 |
| kgriffs | actually, seems like you want more fudge room than that | 19:42 |
| flaper87 | if (msg_ttl - msg_age) < claims_ttl: msg_ttl += claim_ttl - msg_ttl | 19:42 |
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| kgriffs | well, consider that if workers poll once every, say, 5 minutes for work | 19:43 |
| kgriffs | but a worker dies. | 19:43 |
| kgriffs | the claim must expire and the messages still need to live long enough for another worker to pick them up | 19:43 |
| flaper87 | kgriffs: nope, because the would expire with the claim (if their life was extended) | 19:43 |
| kgriffs | but I don't want them to expire with the claim | 19:44 |
| flaper87 | kgriffs: they would have expire anyway | 19:44 |
| flaper87 | expired* | 19:44 |
| kgriffs | isn't the whole point of having a ttl on claims is so if a worker dies another can pick up the slack? | 19:44 |
| flaper87 | kgriffs: sure | 19:45 |
| flaper87 | so, the suggestion is: | 19:46 |
| flaper87 | Extend messages' expiration time to the claim's expiration time for messages that would expire before the claim does | 19:47 |
| bryansd-home | flaper87: +1 | 19:47 |
| kgriffs | no fudge factor? | 19:47 |
| kgriffs | so, clients would still be responsible for doing that themselves if they need it | 19:47 |
| flaper87 | kgriffs: clients would set claim's ttl | 19:48 |
| kgriffs | yes, but if a worker client dies and you want a different worker to pick up the unprocessed messages, those messages will need long enough TTLs that they don't expire before another worker picks them up and claims them, thereby extending their lifetimes again. | 19:49 |
| kgriffs | so, setting messages to expire along with a claim only solves the issue of them expiring while a claim is active, not what happens when an agent crashes. | 19:50 |
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| flaper87 | kgriffs: yes but consider that if those message wouldn't have been claimed they would have expired anyway | 19:51 |
| kgriffs | I agree that it is useful to do, and avoids surprises. | 19:51 |
| kgriffs | My point is just that the latter problem needs to be addressed somehow as well. | 19:51 |
| kgriffs | basically you need some grace period | 19:52 |
| kgriffs | to ensure messages aren't dropped | 19:52 |
| kgriffs | I wonder if a claim could have a "grace" field? | 19:52 |
| bryansd-home | Or should message TTLs be renewed when they get claimed? | 19:53 |
| kgriffs | the the formula would become: | 19:53 |
| flaper87 | kgriffs: what I don't understand of your concern is: Why should a claimed message have a grace period and a not claimed message shouldn't ? | 19:53 |
| kgriffs | claims_ttl: msg_ttl += claim_ttl - msg_ttl + grace | 19:53 |
| flaper87 | kgriffs: I'm ok with the "after_claim_grace" | 19:54 |
| flaper87 | kgriffs: well, you are right actually. the claimed messages deserve a grace period because the were hold from being processed by the stupid, suicide, worker | 19:54 |
| bryansd-home | hah! | 19:55 |
| flaper87 | :) | 19:55 |
| kgriffs | so everyone was right! | 19:55 |
| flaper87 | so, +1 for extending and +1 for grace_post_claim | 19:55 |
| kgriffs | #agreed Extend lifetime of claimed messages to be at least as long as the lifetime of the claim itself, plus a specified grace period to deal with crashed workers | 19:56 |
| kgriffs | <phew> | 19:56 |
| kgriffs | OK folks. | 19:56 |
| flaper87 | w00000t | 19:56 |
| kgriffs | we have 4 mins | 19:56 |
| kgriffs | open discussion | 19:57 |
| flaper87 | o/ | 19:57 |
| flaper87 | so, we created now a new milestone series (havana) and a new milestone (havana-1). Marconi is not part of core projects so we're not expected to follow upstream release cycles but it seems to be that it would be good to start "fitting" into those release cycles since now | 19:58 |
| flaper87 | so that we're a step ahead when the time will come for marconi to be evaluated | 19:58 |
| flaper87 | as a project, organization and blah blah blah | 19:58 |
| kgriffs | +1 | 19:59 |
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| flaper87 | there are some upstream milestones we're following (havana-1) and some marconi's milestones (trello) and I think they both can work together | 19:59 |
| flaper87 | actually, they would make everything better | 19:59 |
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| flaper87 | so, for anyone with new ideas, proposals or whatsoever, pls, write a blueprint and lets set a milestone to that blueprint based on the workload | 20:00 |
| kgriffs | I guess we could make the summit demo "grizzly-1" | 20:00 |
| flaper87 | (which is huge, btw) | 20:00 |
| kgriffs | then everything after that would be havana milestones | 20:00 |
| ametts-atl | Want to propose Marconi sessions at summit.openstack.org, but there doesn't seem to be a suitable option in the "Topics" drop-down. (https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Marconi) | 20:01 |
| ametts-atl | Anyone know who can help us get an option added to the drop-down? Or at least a "Incubated Projects" option? | 20:01 |
| flaper87 | also, I think it'd be good to get as much feedback as possible from other people | 20:01 |
| flaper87 | ametts-atl: mmh, ttx ? | 20:02 |
| flaper87 | ametts-atl: Thierry | 20:02 |
| ametts-atl | Thierry == ttx? | 20:02 |
| flaper87 | ametts-atl: yep | 20:02 |
| flaper87 | you'll find him in #openstack-dev | 20:02 |
| flaper87 | ametts-atl: at least he can point us to the right direction | 20:03 |
| ametts-atl | Yeah, I just posted there. No response yet. Maybe I'll try an old fashioned email. | 20:03 |
| flaper87 | ametts-atl: sounds better | 20:03 |
| kgriffs | OK folks, anything else? | 20:03 |
| flaper87 | ametts-atl: he's based in France, IIRC, so most likely he's doing something else now | 20:03 |
| flaper87 | kgriffs: not from me! Great meeting folks | 20:03 |
| ametts-atl | But you're in Italia, no?! | 20:04 |
| flaper87 | ametts-atl: yep, but I'm lifeless and workaholic :P | 20:04 |
| ametts-atl | :) | 20:04 |
| kgriffs | OK, so next community meeting is 4 April | 20:04 |
| kgriffs | in the meantime, folks can catch us in #openstack-marconi | 20:05 |
| kgriffs | #endmeeting | 20:05 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack meetings (alternate) || Development in #openstack-dev || Help in #openstack" | 20:05 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Thu Mar 21 20:05:23 2013 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 20:05 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/marconi/2013/marconi.2013-03-21-19.04.html | 20:05 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/marconi/2013/marconi.2013-03-21-19.04.txt | 20:05 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/marconi/2013/marconi.2013-03-21-19.04.log.html | 20:05 |
| flaper87 | o/ | 20:05 |
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| kgriffs | cheers | 20:06 |
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| kgriffs | meeting wiki updated | 20:08 |
| kgriffs | https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings/Marconi | 20:08 |
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