Thursday, 2015-11-26

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Jokke_GO!14:06
flaper87#startmeeting Glance14:06
openstackMeeting started Thu Nov 26 14:06:52 2015 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes.  The chair is flaper87. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.14:06
openstackUseful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.14:06
flaper87w00000h00000000000000014:07
*** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: Glance)"14:07
kragniz\o/14:07
openstackThe meeting name has been set to 'glance'14:07
Jokke_\\o \o/ o// o/714:07
flaper87#topic Agenda14:07
*** openstack changes topic to "Agenda (Meeting topic: Glance)"14:07
flaper87#link https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/glance-team-meeting-agenda14:07
flaper87As usual, that's the link to our, very dynamic, agenda14:07
flaper87#topic Next week is Mitaka-1: FIIIIIIRE FIIIIIIRE FIIIIIIIRE (flaper87)14:07
*** openstack changes topic to "Next week is Mitaka-1: FIIIIIIRE FIIIIIIRE FIIIIIIIRE (flaper87) (Meeting topic: Glance)"14:07
flaper87Just want to give everyone a heads up that next week is the M-1 cut off14:07
flaper87Few notes on that14:08
flaper87It'd be great to focus our reviews a bit more on bug fixes for the rest of this week and next one14:08
flaper87Look out for failures and gate stability14:08
flaper87It should be painless since that's normally the csae for the first milestone of th ecycle14:08
flaper87however, we know Murphy and we all hate him14:08
flaper87I'll let everyone know when the cut is done14:09
flaper87Also, if you're part of the bug triage team,  we could use some help triaging bugs and targeting to the right milestone14:09
flaper87especially for bugs that have patches that had already landed14:09
flaper87That's all from me14:09
flaper87Are there questions? comments? feedback?14:10
Jokke_also feel free to tag with backport-candidate for anything you think could be backported14:10
Jokke_thanks14:10
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flaper87Jokke_: ++14:10
flaper87ooooooooooooooooooooooooook, moving on14:10
flaper87#topic Bug report and review process (flaper87)14:10
*** openstack changes topic to "Bug report and review process (flaper87) (Meeting topic: Glance)"14:10
flaper87I've seen several cases (not going to point fingers on anyone) of bugs being reported and patches being proposed 2 seconds after the bug goes public14:11
flaper87while I'm very happy to see this and it's super cool to have patches fixing bugs14:11
flaper87this is causing an issue from a bug triage perspective as those bugs are basically being self-triaged14:12
flaper87It's happened that these very same bugs are the ones that land w/ a milestone proposed14:12
flaper87Since I don't want to tell people to not propose patches (that would be insane), I'm now calling out reviewers on this14:12
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flaper87Please, do not blindly approve patches w/ reviewing the bug14:13
flaper87if a bug doesn't have a milestone set, please, ping me or any of the drivers14:13
flaper87The bug should also have an importance set as that's what is also being used as a criteria for backports14:13
flaper87and, if the bug never went from New -> triaged/confirmed then please, try to verify the bug14:14
nikhil_k+114:14
nikhil_k(I found one reviewing)14:14
Jokke_and do not set the importance apart from wishlist (feature request) if you can verify it14:14
Jokke_can't even14:14
flaper87Bugs that go from New -> In progress are the ones that haven't been verified and we need to have second tests to avoid approving bug fixes for things that may be a misconfiguration14:14
flaper87right!14:15
flaper87ok, that's it from me14:15
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flaper87I hope I didn't come off harsh and that the rant didn't offend anyone14:15
flaper87I do like all this bugs+patches14:15
flaper87but I hope you can understand the impact that has from a release/management perspective14:15
Jokke_closed bug is the best kind of bug14:15
kragnizso this is about setting milestone, importance etc rather than the act of fileling a bug and submitting a patch at the same time?14:15
mclarenthe core of this is don't merge unconfirmed bugs?14:16
kragnizfor clarification14:16
flaper87mclaren: kragniz don't merge unconrimed/untriaged/untargeted bugs14:16
flaper87that's the TL;DR14:16
kragnizcool14:16
flaper87unconfirmed even14:16
mclarenso mark confirmed, set the target, then merge?14:17
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flaper87if the bug is "In Progress" changing the status would break the process so, I'd recommend commenting with a confirmation14:17
nikhil_kwell sometimes people don't set the importance but confirm it on comments and I think that's fine14:17
nikhil_kglance bug team is open to public and mirco-managing would be tricky14:18
flaper87ok, anything else? feedback? yells? concerns?14:18
flaper87nikhil_k: ++14:18
kragnizflaper87: sounds good to me14:19
flaper87Reviewer's *must* click on the bug link and read through before approving patches :)14:19
flaper87Reviewers14:19
flaper87ok14:19
flaper87moving on14:19
flaper87#topic python-glanceclient 1.2.0 and 1.1.2(?) released14:19
*** openstack changes topic to "python-glanceclient 1.2.0 and 1.1.2(?) released (Meeting topic: Glance)"14:19
flaper87Jokke_: ^?14:19
flaper87I guess that's you14:19
Jokke_yeah, Noticed that it wasn't in our meeting agenda so must have slipped14:20
flaper87yup14:20
Jokke_we did tag releases on master and I'm just trying to check irt was either from kilo or Liberty where we tagged release as well ... that was days ago and gates looking good14:20
flaper87yeah, we announced that last week14:20
flaper87didn't we?14:21
flaper870.17.314:21
flaper87that's kilo14:21
Jokke_k sorry for spam then14:21
flaper87no worries14:21
flaper87#topic Glance_store 0.10.0 release requested probably either today or early next week14:21
*** openstack changes topic to "Glance_store 0.10.0 release requested probably either today or early next week (Meeting topic: Glance)"14:21
Jokke_and the next is mine as well14:21
flaper87ok, that one is new for sure14:21
flaper87:D14:21
Jokke_so glance_store going out14:21
Jokke_keep eyes open14:22
Jokke_major note14:22
Jokke_store configs under [DEFAULT] got removed after deprecation14:22
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flaper87w000h00000014:22
kragnizJokke_: shouldn't that really bump the major version?14:22
Jokke_so might cause some unexpected. That's in the release highlight as well as in the release notes14:22
flaper87Jokke_: thanks for handling the release14:23
kragniz(assuming we're following semver)14:23
flaper87kragniz: we are under 0.* still14:23
nikhil_kif it is needed it will be caught prior to release14:23
kragnizflaper87: I guess so14:23
flaper87I mean, in theory it should but the library is not considered stable yet14:23
Jokke_kragniz: I was wondering that as well14:23
flaper87That's how I feel about it, at least14:23
flaper87:P14:23
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flaper87not sure what others think14:24
kragnizflaper87: yeah, makes sense14:24
Jokke_kragniz: but like Flavio said and minor version was expected by others14:24
nikhil_kI think if this breaks stuff we may need to release 6.0.0 like pip :P14:24
flaper87LOL14:24
Jokke_Oh this most probably does not happen today but next week due to thanks giving I doubt dhellmann is around to answer on this either ;)14:25
flaper87right14:25
kragnizif we're still planning the large glance_store api refactor, it's a lot easier to keep it under 0.*14:25
kragnizI'm fine with 0.10.014:25
Jokke_kragniz: ++14:25
flaper87I believe that's still planned, I saw the spc up again14:25
Jokke_some day we get there14:25
nikhil_khe's in eu somewhere, somone ask him in person :P14:25
flaper87okidoki, moving on14:25
flaper87#topic Community Feedback14:26
*** openstack changes topic to "Community Feedback (Meeting topic: Glance)"14:26
flaper87This is not a really long topic but more of an open question14:26
flaper87I'm on a mission of gathering feedback from folks in the Glance community about.. well... Glance. I'll likely ping you on IRC looking for this info14:26
flaper87Somethings I'd love to hear from you all are:14:26
flaper871. How do you feel about the Glance community?14:27
flaper872. What would you like to change?14:27
flaper873. What's your impression about the reviews rate, feedback, etc?14:27
flaper874. What areas of Glance itself would you like to improve next?14:27
flaper87And whatever comes to your mind14:27
flaper87Feel free to share them in openstack-glance or in private14:28
flaper87I'd love to get that feedback from you all14:28
flaper87and it won't take you long14:28
flaper87:D14:28
flaper87it's all for the best, I promise14:28
nikhil_kwe need to have our own foundation :P (jk)14:28
* flaper87 does his evil laugh14:28
* flaper87 votes for nikhil_k to the board14:28
flaper87That's it!14:29
flaper87Please, share your thoughts. I'm looking forward to them14:29
flaper87Also, feel free to rant and complain about patches, bugs and anything else14:29
flaper87:D14:29
flaper87#topic Reviews, Bugs14:29
*** openstack changes topic to "Reviews, Bugs (Meeting topic: Glance)"14:29
flaper87Adding 'docker' as container_format https://review.openstack.org/249282 (mclaren)14:29
mclarenthat's me14:30
mclarenI guess this is a fairly binary "do we want this or not". It's kind of a one line change at heart.14:30
mclarenwhat do folks feel about this?14:30
flaper87I don't mind having it, tbh.14:31
flaper87I do have some questions that I'd like to raise on the bug/review14:31
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flaper87and I'd like to understand where nikhil_k was coming from14:31
mclarennikhil_k: where were you coming from? :-)14:31
nikhil_kWhy is that a question? (asking seriously not rhetorically)14:31
Jokke_I'd like to have it and enable the nova-docker team to work without needing to add it to configs every time. But I'd really like to hear where all that fuzz came from?14:31
kragnizI'm going to be honest, I don't quite get the amount of pushback this change is getting14:32
mfedosinas I said, I don't see any problems with that14:32
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mclarentbh it was more noise than pushback imho14:32
flaper87kragniz: it's not really a pushback. I think the only think that was asked was to follow a bit of a process14:32
flaper87my request was to have a lite-spec14:32
nikhil_kflaper87: exactly14:32
flaper87just to have a way to track it14:32
Jokke_mclaren, flaper87: I think -2 is pretty clear pushback, not noise ;P14:32
nikhil_kand I remember we discussing that like Nova is it's API affecting change it needs a full spec14:33
flaper87Jokke_: wait, I requested the -2 on IRC. It's my fault for not doing it myself14:33
mclarenJokke_: actually, yes. noise and pushback14:33
flaper87the reason I requested it is the same reason I just talked about proper bug triage14:33
flaper87because I was afraid it'd have been merged without a propre triage14:33
mclarenI guess one thing to bear in mind is that I don't think the reviewer got a clear idea of what we wanted. Did we communicate what a lite-spec is?14:33
Jokke_nikhil_k: it's not API affecting change14:33
nikhil_kand I feel that calling it a `pushback` is noise now14:34
flaper87mclaren: we can't because the docs for that haven't been reviewed *hint* *hint*14:34
Jokke_we don't add APIImpact on every image-create and image-delete call because those changes the output of image-get and image-list :P14:34
mclarenso we requested a lite spec which isn't a thing yet?14:34
flaper87mclaren: it is a thing14:34
flaper87the docs haven't been merged14:34
flaper87we've talked about it in glance drivers meetings several times14:35
flaper87and we have several bugs filed as lite-specs14:35
flaper87So, again14:35
nikhil_kif the schema changes and can potentially break clients it's a API change Jokke_14:35
flaper87I don't think there was a pushback on the feature, there was just a request for some process14:35
flaper87Should we have used -1 instead of -2? probably14:35
Jokke_nikhil_k: break client?14:35
nikhil_kthe schema API call will be different (look at my comment)14:35
mclarenflaper87: Ok. I'm just not sure Dave was left with a super clear path forward.14:36
flaper87Could this have been communicated better to the committer? Sure, I agree14:36
flaper87mclaren: I agree with that14:36
mfedosinnikhil_k: schema won't change14:36
mclarenSo I will review the lite-spec to help out here. And we can reference that in future. Problem solved!14:36
flaper87mclaren: thank you :D14:37
Jokke_nikhil_k: IIRC last time we were fighting with the schema issues we made sure that clanceclient does not use cached schemas, so that should not be the case ;)14:37
flaper87mclaren: disclaimer: you'll have to deal with my english14:37
flaper87hahahaha14:37
kragnizflaper87: okay, that clarifies it14:37
mclarenPorque no es en Espanol?14:37
flaper87Jokke_: kragniz mfedosin mclaren FWIW, the technical discussion we're having here is awesome and I'd like this to be reflected on the bug!14:37
Jokke_mfedosin: the schema should change based on the different accepted values14:38
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flaper87Otherwise we'll have lengthy discussions burried in IRC logs and no comments on the lite-spec, which we should use to discuss proposals14:38
flaper87:D14:38
Jokke_I think container_type is one of the things delivered there14:38
flaper87mclaren: lol, I mean, I could. That'd be way easier14:38
flaper87:D14:38
Jokke_flaper87: I add link to the logs after the meeting :P14:38
mfedosinJokke_: ah yes, you're right14:39
mclarenEntonces, cambiamos? lol14:39
flaper87Jokke_: sounds great. Or copy/paste the convo removing the parts not related14:39
nikhil_kshould we rather have this meeting in spanish?14:39
Jokke_Mita jos kaikki vaan kaytetaan omaa aidinkieltamme? :P14:39
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flaper87ok, I hope it's clear that no one is rejecting the feautre.14:40
flaper87I'll comment on the review and apologize for the lack of proper communication and support14:40
mclarensomeone's keyboard is broken14:40
nikhil_kflaper87: we still need to conclude on this API change -- breaking or otherwsie14:40
mclarenso container_format is configurable14:41
flaper87nikhil_k: yes! Fully agree. I'll read through your comments and the discussion you and Jokke_ just had14:41
nikhil_kand I will get in touch with Drew in one of our mtgs14:41
nikhil_kflaper87: ok, thanks. I will move my -2 back to -114:41
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mclarenso existing deployments can return customized json14:41
mclarenie add whatever formats they like14:41
mclarenI guess my question is 'is this an api change?'14:42
flaper87also, bare in mind that we'll have a version bump in mitaka anyway because of the import process changes14:42
Jokke_If it is, DefCore is so going to love us14:42
nikhil_kI doubt it if it will affect defcore14:43
nikhil_kthe whole thing is so far in the future and undecided14:43
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kragnizflaper87: I forget the process. Do we have two bumps for each new thing, or a bump for a few things in a cycle?14:43
flaper87kragniz: 1 bump for few things14:43
nikhil_kideally the same patch14:43
kragnizflaper87: cool14:43
Jokke_kragniz: bump for each release where something bumpworthy has merged14:43
* flaper87 likes bumpworthy14:43
nikhil_kbut since we do milestone based releases it's okay to do before the official release14:43
flaper87ok, lets give time to other topics14:43
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flaper87Spec-lite https://bugs.launchpad.net/python-glanceclient/+bug/1489534 (bunting)14:44
openstackLaunchpad bug 1489534 in python-glanceclient "Move metadef commands to sub-commands" [Wishlist,In progress] - Assigned to Niall Bunting (niall-bunting)14:44
buntingThats me14:44
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buntingJust bring this spec lite into the light for moving metadefs into a subset of commands14:44
flaper87bunting: coolio, thanks14:44
buntingSince i guess spec lites can easily get hidden14:44
flaper87so, the spec-lite process says that the drivers team will review spec-lites during the drivers meeting14:45
nikhil_kflaper87: anyone sourcing the master HEAD for CI/CD will have breaking changes in their repo (if that's something cared for) (imdone)14:45
Jokke_question, I think I have raised before, why only metadefs?14:45
flaper87There's a query we use to list those lite specs and review them14:45
flaper87but thanks for bringing it up here too14:45
buntingflaper87: Ah okay, did'nt know that14:45
kragnizJokke_: because there's a lot of them14:45
* flaper87 needs to chase people to get the process reviewed14:45
flaper87bunting: not your fault, really14:45
buntingkragniz: ++14:45
mclarenJokke_: because there's so many md commands -- have you looked at the v2 help? They kind of spam everything else14:45
flaper87my current feeling about that is that we should either do it for everything or not doing it.14:46
mclarenAS Brian said, it makes glance look like a metadata service with some extra image related bits14:46
flaper87if you look at `neutron --help` you'll get a huge list of commands14:46
mclarenwhere really most folks think of it the other way around14:46
flaper87but I need to look into this a bit better14:46
mclarenflaper87: yes, but they're all networking related14:46
flaper87mclaren: right14:47
kragnizflaper87: I don't think we want to change general usage of the client14:47
kragnizotherwise we might as well just tell people to use osc14:47
flaper87kragniz: agreed but this change is a breaking change14:47
flaper87I mean, we can proxy the old way to the new way14:47
mclarenkragniz: it's backwards compatible14:47
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Jokke_I'm all up for subcommanding stuff, but I do agree that it would make sense to do it once for all then14:47
flaper87but it'll require a major release to completely remove the old one14:47
mclarenit's fully backwards compatible14:48
kragnizflaper87: that's true, but md-* are far less likely to be used by some end user14:48
Jokke_flaper87: that's the beauty of it, all the old ones works while they don't show up14:48
flaper87kragniz: assume makes an A** between U and ME14:48
flaper87:D14:48
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nikhil_kso are doing some redirect or something?14:49
nikhil_kwon't the CLI change (backward incompat)?14:49
flaper87I'm not opposed to it, I just shout my first thought14:49
buntingnikhil_k:  https://review.openstack.org/#/c/218864/14:49
Jokke_nikhil_k: the old commands are staying there, just suppressed form help14:49
buntingnikhil_k: Thats the link14:49
flaper87and I guess we need to keep in mind to remove those on the next major14:49
Jokke_making it super easy to transform14:49
Jokke_flaper87: or not ;)14:50
flaper87Jokke_: the old ones14:50
nikhil_kah, nice trick. So suppressed is fine w/o deprecation (clarification needed)?14:50
Jokke_the current trend seems to be bloat all so we can just leave them there14:50
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flaper87mmh, I don't like having 2 ways of doing things14:50
nikhil_kflaper87: ok14:50
nikhil_kif we can do redirects , that would be ideal14:50
mclarenwe have two apis, I thought it was a requirement!14:50
Jokke_mclaren: ++ :)14:51
flaper87loooooooooooooooooooooooooool14:51
nikhil_k(or in bash semantics it would be alias)14:51
kragnizmclaren: :D14:51
flaper87nice one14:51
flaper87sad but true14:51
flaper87ok14:51
Jokke_remember ... never remove anything14:51
nikhil_kbunting: thanks for link14:51
Jokke_maybe we just remove the suppressions on next major :P14:51
flaper87Jokke_: well, lets not go crazy extreme with that14:51
flaper87anyway14:52
flaper87#topic Open Discussion14:52
*** openstack changes topic to "Open Discussion (Meeting topic: Glance)"14:52
flaper87Happy thanksgiving to everyone who celebrates it14:52
flaper87hope your holidays will be awesome14:52
buntingCan i just ask what mk-1 actually is for?14:52
flaper87bunting: mk-1 ? mitaka-1 ?14:52
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* mclaren can't find the lite-spec review :-/14:53
flaper87that's the first milestone in the Mitaka release14:53
nikhil_kright back atchya14:53
buntingmikita-114:53
buntingWhat is it used for?14:53
nikhil_kgtg, thanks everyone14:53
flaper87just a release milestone, I don't think it has a proper "goal"14:53
flaper87There are 3 milesotnes per release14:53
nikhil_khave a fun rest of week/end.14:53
flaper87there's -1, -2 and -314:53
flaper87That allows teams for planning based on the release schedule14:54
Jokke_mainly for tracking progress and enabling teams to target specific changes to milestones14:54
flaper87Targeting bug fixes, cutting points were there have been things done, etc14:54
Jokke_there is also tarball generated out of them for testing purposes14:54
flaper87mclaren: https://review.openstack.org/#/c/234653/14:54
flaper87#link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/234653/14:54
mclarenflaper87: thank you!14:54
flaper87mclaren: no no no, thank you :D14:54
buntingcheers, just wondering14:54
flaper87actually, I take that back14:54
flaper87I'll thank you based on your review14:54
Jokke_bunting: think it as long sprint in the agile format14:55
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flaper87btw, if you ping me on IRC to provide feedback about the community and I'm not around, feel free to drop me an email and or dump everything on IRC. I have a bouncer14:55
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flaper87okidoki14:56
* Jokke_ starts planning to dump everything to flaper87's bouncer14:56
flaper87great meeting everyone, enjoy your weekend and have fun!14:56
flaper87Jokke_: >.>14:56
kragnizthanks flaper8714:56
buntingas a late psa it seems kilo has a broken gate14:56
flaper87bunting: ceph ?14:57
flaper87the glance_store ?14:57
mclarenyes  ceph I think14:57
mclarenAnyone know if they're actively looking?14:57
flaper87#link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/250368/14:57
Jokke_#link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/250368/14:57
flaper87I am14:57
Jokke_#undo14:57
Jokke_wupf14:57
flaper87ok, we're done14:58
flaper87thanks everyone14:58
Jokke_Thanks everyone14:58
flaper87#endmeeting14:58
abhishekk_thank you14:58
*** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings"14:58
openstackMeeting ended Thu Nov 26 14:58:25 2015 UTC.  Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4)14:58
mclarenthanks14:58
openstackMinutes:        http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/glance/2015/glance.2015-11-26-14.06.html14:58
openstackMinutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/glance/2015/glance.2015-11-26-14.06.txt14:58
openstackLog:            http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/glance/2015/glance.2015-11-26-14.06.log.html14:58
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trinathsHi17:01
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