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| eglute | #startmeeting defcore | 15:00 |
|---|---|---|
| openstack | Meeting started Wed Sep 30 15:00:07 2015 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is eglute. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 15:00 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 15:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: defcore)" | 15:00 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'defcore' | 15:00 |
| hogepodge | o/ | 15:00 |
| eglute | #link https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/DefCoreFlag.17 | 15:00 |
| eglute | hello everyone! Roll call, raise your hand if you are here for defcore meeting | 15:00 |
| catherine_ | o/ | 15:00 |
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| GheRivero | o/ | 15:01 |
| dwalleck | o/ | 15:01 |
| eglute | #topic agenda | 15:01 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "agenda (Meeting topic: defcore)" | 15:01 | |
| * dcarmon raise hand | 15:01 | |
| markvoelker | o/ | 15:01 |
| eglute | please review agenda and add or update as appropriate #link https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/DefCoreFlag.17 | 15:02 |
| eglute | #topic licensing language | 15:02 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "licensing language (Meeting topic: defcore)" | 15:02 | |
| eglute | hogepodge can you speak about it? | 15:02 |
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| hogepodge | The current powered license states "Your product will be required to pass the current test on an annual basis, which will generally require you to be running either of the latest two software releases." | 15:03 |
| hogepodge | The Foundation wanted clarification on two issues. The first is annual testing. Does the Defcore committee want annual testing of products? | 15:03 |
| markvoelker | hogepodge: let's clarify one more thing first | 15:03 |
| eglute | can you elaborate what you mean | 15:03 |
| markvoelker | The license agreements are currently drawn up against a product (such as "Red Hat OpenStack Platform" or "VMware Integrated OpenStack") | 15:04 |
| hogepodge | The second is in the requirement. We plan on changing it to "latest guidelines approved by the board and defcore committee", or somilar language. | 15:04 |
| markvoelker | Not a specific version of a product (e.g. VMWare Integrated OpenStack 2.0) | 15:04 |
| markvoelker | So if the annual testing requirement applies to a product and not a specific version, that seems reasonable. | 15:05 |
| eglute | hogepodge are you saying foundation would like to change defcore testing against only one rather than two last guidelines? | 15:06 |
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| hogepodge | Would it be better to require testing for product updates? Defined as changing the version of shipped or deployed code. | 15:06 |
| eglute | i am still confused what it is that you are asking... but it could be the lack of coffee | 15:07 |
| dwalleck | hogepodge: Would that mean re-testing for every deployment of code for a public cloud? | 15:07 |
| hogepodge | eglute: no, we want to remove the language of running the latest two releases and let releases covered be defined by however many guidelines are board approved and currently active | 15:07 |
| dwalleck | We update quite often | 15:07 |
| markvoelker | hogepodge: So I'm personally not overly concerned about minor maintenance updates. I'd much rather users of OpenStack products get updates faster and not have to wait on legal hoops to be jumped through. | 15:07 |
| hogepodge | dwalleck: I would hope you test on redeployment :-D | 15:07 |
| rockyg | good question. I would think if a new major version of a product is released, it should be retested | 15:08 |
| hogepodge | dwalleck: but that's a different issue | 15:08 |
| markvoelker | And I also think the chances of vendors making major capability changes in maintenance updates is reasonably small. | 15:08 |
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| hogepodge | dwalleck: that's why I was thinking major version boundaries. the one year phrase I think is meant to catch public clouds who have rolling updates. | 15:08 |
| eglute | hogepodge so if the last two guidelines are still active, nothing would change? | 15:08 |
| dwalleck | hogepodge: I thought that was what you meant by requiring of testing updates | 15:08 |
| hogepodge | eglute: it would change. The latest two guidelines cover three releases afaik | 15:09 |
| rockyg | so, if the vendor rolls from juno to kilo... | 15:09 |
| markvoelker | E.g. if there's an OSSA issued, I want products to be able to push that fix out immediately without worrying that they haven't gotten the Foundation's legal team to sign off on an agreement on the patch. | 15:09 |
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| hogepodge | markvoelker: dwalleck: to be clear, I'm not advocating testing on every update | 15:10 |
| dwalleck | gotcha, thanks | 15:10 |
| catherine_ | regardless of the legal hoops, what if vendors want to test against every spec approved by DefCore to show their updated certification ? | 15:10 |
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| hogepodge | markvoelker: dwalleck: I just trying to define the conditions that require re-testing a product. Annual may be unfair to distributions, who value a stable and tested code base. By version is unfair to public providers, who update frequently. | 15:11 |
| markvoelker | hogepodge: good. =) So you're saying essentially when a vendor goes from 2.0->3.0 rather than 2.0->2.0.1? | 15:11 |
| hogepodge | markvoelker: yes | 15:11 |
| dwalleck | hogepodge: I see where you're coming from and that makes sense | 15:11 |
| markvoelker | hogepodge: yeah, agree there may be some interesting challenges there. Perhaps it's time we considered different models for public vs distro vs managed offerings. | 15:12 |
| eglute | hogepodge can you give an example of against what and how often foundation would like to see testing happening? | 15:12 |
| catherine_ | currently data shown on refstack.net seems to be reference only... the version of spec shown on the OpenStack marketplace is what legally shown the version of spec that is certified against .. | 15:12 |
| hogepodge | markvoelker: we capture that distinction in the trademark application. | 15:12 |
| markvoelker | hogepodge: well, yes...but you still apply the same testing principals and schedules to them, no? | 15:13 |
| hogepodge | markvoelker: One of my goals is to go back to our legal team with proposed language change that captures our intent. | 15:13 |
| hogepodge | markvoelker: correct, I'm saying since we already ask about it we can easily identify the distinction and send the correct contract out if there are two cases | 15:13 |
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| markvoelker | hogepodge: gotcha, thanks | 15:14 |
| eglute | hogepodge can you give an example of against what and how often foundation would like to see testing happening? | 15:15 |
| markvoelker | eglute: I think the Foundation is asking us to tell them that. =) | 15:15 |
| eglute | right now we do have that in our docs | 15:15 |
| eglute | sounds to me like they want to change it | 15:16 |
| hogepodge | I can give two examples. Linux distributor X releases a new version of OpenStack with every release. I would like to see that version tested against one of the active standards. | 15:16 |
| eglute | ok | 15:16 |
| markvoelker | So...here's a thought. | 15:16 |
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| hogepodge | Public cloud Y has rolling updates. I would like to know that continuous updates have not broken the api against the active standards after some time period of 'n' months. | 15:17 |
| hogepodge | s/standards/guidelines/ | 15:17 |
| eglute | ok, that makes sense | 15:17 |
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| eglute | is the current way of once a year not working? | 15:18 |
| markvoelker | eglute: well, it has problems | 15:19 |
| catherine_ | hogepodge: markvoelker: eglute: regardless of legal hoops, what if vendors want to test their products against every approved DefCore specs? | 15:19 |
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| dwalleck | I'm actually working on continuous DefCore testing here at Rackspace to make sure we always know where we stand | 15:19 |
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| markvoelker | eglute: for example, if public clouds are pushing new updates all the time, they could break a capability tomorrow and not be required to retest/lose their logo unless they fix it for a full year. | 15:19 |
| catherine_ | dwalleck: you know where you stand but how do you communicate your result to your customer officially? | 15:20 |
| hogepodge | catherine_: I would like to encourage continuous testing, and update agreements and marketplace pages based on latest results | 15:20 |
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| dwalleck | catherine_: Well, testing against every spec can be as simple as running the superset of those specs and then filtering the results by spec version | 15:20 |
| markvoelker | catherine_: I think we should encourage that, and there is in fact a carrot for doing so: the MarketPLace | 15:20 |
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| eglute | I think defcore defines the minimum of once a year, so companies can test as often as they want. I am hesitant to impose more procedure for products that want to release things, but would have to worry about re-certifying | 15:21 |
| catherine_ | it is not a matter of testing ... it is a matter of communicate the results publicly through officia channels .. | 15:21 |
| markvoelker | The Marketplace doesn't just show whether you are OpenStack Powered(TM) or not, it also shows what Guideline you've tested against | 15:21 |
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| catherine_ | Exactly, that is why we need a mechanism to update the marketplace | 15:21 |
| dwalleck | catherine_: That's a next step I leave to folks like SamD. But it's a very legitimate question. I'm driving the feedback back into our internal dev teams at the moment | 15:22 |
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| markvoelker | catherine_: I'd also argue we need to get the Marketplace to show multiple product versions (for distros etc) and for it to show all Guidelines those versions adhere to, but maybe we're getting a little off in the weeds now. =) | 15:22 |
| catherine_ | markvoelker: yup ... that is what I am asking ... | 15:22 |
| markvoelker | So back to the original thing about legal contracts: | 15:23 |
| hogepodge | I can take all of those suggestions back to our marketplace team. They will most definitely not be implemented before the summit. | 15:23 |
| eglute | there is an assumption that cloud offerings will start breaking guidelines they passed with subsequent releases. I doubt this would happen often. I think a better way would be to put in some language that says if product X breaks previous guideline that it passed that they must re-certify against another guideline | 15:23 |
| markvoelker | hogepodge: yup, understood. | 15:23 |
| rockyg | point of information..is everybody aware of the version identification change that is happening accross the projects? away fro years and to x.y.z? | 15:24 |
| markvoelker | rockyg: yes | 15:24 |
| catherine_ | hogepodge: thx | 15:24 |
| markvoelker | So hogepodge: just to strawman here since I know you want to take something back to the legal team | 15:25 |
| markvoelker | personally I'm fine with an annual testing requirement against the most recent 2 Guidelines as a starting point. I think we can improve that standard though, and for that we need a little more discussion. | 15:26 |
| eglute | markvoelker +1 | 15:26 |
| eglute | this could be a good discussion for tokyo | 15:26 |
| markvoelker | And as far as the software versions: yes by all means drop that language entirely and let the Guidelines dictate the versions so there's no mismatch. | 15:26 |
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| markvoelker | eglute: +1 on discussion in Tokyo if we can get some space. Anybody know if any of the Foundation legal staff/Marketplace staff will be there, or do we use Chris as a conduit? | 15:27 |
| eglute | yes we have two sessions for working group | 15:28 |
| hogepodge | markvoelker: that's our preference, for only specifying active guidelines (in case for some reason the board decides to increase or decrease the number away from 2) | 15:28 |
| hogepodge | markvoelker: I'll be the conduit for that. | 15:28 |
| markvoelker | hogepodge: good then (on both counts) | 15:28 |
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| eglute | we spent half of our meeting on this topic, so moving on to the next one | 15:29 |
| markvoelker | So, eglute: I suggest we record an action to start a strawman proposal about how to handle recurring testing. You can assign it to me if you like, since I started this to begin with. =p | 15:29 |
| hogepodge | +1 | 15:29 |
| catherine_ | +1 | 15:30 |
| eglute | #action markvoelker to start a strawman proposal about how to handle recurring testing. | 15:30 |
| markvoelker | I'd also suggest we record an #agreed that we're ok with the Foundation requiring annual testing vs the two most recently approved guidelines for now until we figure out something better | 15:30 |
| eglute | we will also add this discussion to tokyo agenda | 15:30 |
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| eglute | markvoelker i disagree | 15:30 |
| eglute | right now products have to renew their agreements once a year, so it is already in place | 15:31 |
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| hogepodge | eglute: we do need to change the language in the contract to match the guidelines, so at least say something to the effect of "every year test against the current board-approved guidelines" | 15:32 |
| markvoelker | eglute: it's in place, but requires the most recent guideline (not hte most recent two) and requires the most recent two software releases (which is not what the Guidelines require) | 15:32 |
| markvoelker | So they need to change the language | 15:32 |
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| eglute | hogepodge ok, that makes sense. markvoelker oh ok, i was not aware there is a mismatch | 15:32 |
| eglute | #action markvoelker hogepodge eglute will work with the foundation to get the agreement language for branding match the defcore documents | 15:33 |
| markvoelker | eglute: Oh, that's actually a good point. hogepodge, could you maybe ask legal to send over an example of the current contract to us? Seems a lot of folks here haven't actually seen it. | 15:33 |
| markvoelker | I have, but others may not have so it's hard to have a concrete conversation about it. | 15:34 |
| eglute | ok, we really need to move to the next topic, we can continue this conversation later in defcore irc channel | 15:34 |
| markvoelker | eglute: +1 | 15:35 |
| hogepodge | markvoelker: I can forward the copy I have to anyone who is interested. | 15:35 |
| eglute | #topic finalize recommended capabilities | 15:35 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "finalize recommended capabilities (Meeting topic: defcore)" | 15:35 | |
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| eglute | lets start with neutron #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/210080/ | 15:35 |
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| eglute | we had a lot of discussion about it, any other opinions? | 15:36 |
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| hogepodge | I'm +2 on it. We had a lot of good discussion and it's a solid recommendation. | 15:36 |
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| hogepodge | I'm not a fan of requiring floating ip though. Too many cases where clouds aren't providing that, and are using a different mechanism. | 15:37 |
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| * markvoelker nots again that this doesn't require floating IP's, it makes them advisory so we can solicit more feedback | 15:38 | |
| eglute | ok, then i will go ahead and merge it. I do agree with Rob that we can still update the 2016.01 guideline after we get more feedback, since tehre was not a consensus on floating IPs. hogepodge can you comment your objection on it as well? | 15:38 |
| hogepodge | markvoelker: are you ok with merging as is? | 15:38 |
| eglute | hogepodgei see you already have earlier | 15:38 |
| markvoelker | hogepodge: yes | 15:38 |
| rockyg | Yeah. Floating IPs are really a field of landmines | 15:39 |
| hogepodge | eglute: I didn't +1 workflow it. | 15:39 |
| eglute | ok, merging now | 15:39 |
| eglute | next keystone: #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/213330/ | 15:39 |
| markvoelker | hmm, new comments on this one since we started the meeting | 15:40 |
| eglute | there were some comments this morning on it, i guess it will need more time | 15:40 |
| markvoelker | eglute: but we need to decide on it soon. Technically we were supposed to have landed new advisory capabilities last week | 15:41 |
| markvoelker | (per 2015A timelines) | 15:41 |
| eglute | i think we were supposed to score them, not land them i thought | 15:41 |
| eglute | but yes, i dont mean much more time, just give everyone a chance to respond. | 15:42 |
| hogepodge | I'm ok with allowing more time as a procedural variation to adequately prepare the proposed standard for the board. | 15:42 |
| markvoelker | I will address some of the comments made this morning | 15:42 |
| eglute | markvoelker thank you | 15:42 |
| markvoelker | move on? | 15:42 |
| eglute | yup | 15:42 |
| eglute | glance #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/213353/ | 15:43 |
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| hogepodge | I have no strong feelings regarding requiring v2 and v3 together or just v3. The outgoing PTL was strongly in favor of requiring both. I tend to think that by the time they switch from advisory to required v2 will be deprecated. | 15:43 |
| eglute | i think after the latest update that looks good, besides the conflict | 15:43 |
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| hogepodge | eglute: I removed the create capability. | 15:44 |
| eglute | hogepodge thank you, i saw it | 15:44 |
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| hogepodge | I also need to send a patch up to remove the test list | 15:44 |
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| rockyg | Wierd question....how can we require something that isn't even coded into the projects yet? | 15:45 |
| eglute | ok, if it looks good to everyone else i can merge it today or tomorrow after hogepodge sends additional patches | 15:45 |
| rockyg | Nova doesn't use v2 or v3 | 15:45 |
| rockyg | neithr dos cinder | 15:45 |
| eglute | rockyg what does nova use | 15:45 |
| rockyg | v1 | 15:45 |
| rockyg | with a proxy | 15:45 |
| * markvoelker notes that all that has been discussed in the review and on the ML recently | 15:45 | |
| eglute | rockyg are you talking about keystone or images | 15:45 |
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| rockyg | right, but we are supposed to be trailing, not leading, so no one is using v2 so it should not be part of the requirements | 15:46 |
| rockyg | images | 15:46 |
| eglute | rockyg can you please comment on the patch? | 15:46 |
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| rockyg | will do. I'm just saying we can't require tests until they will work. It might be where we want to head, but it can't be part of the testing | 15:47 |
| markvoelker | rockyg: so in your comments, please state which Criteria nova using v1 falls afoul of. I'd imagine that would be "used by clients" | 15:48 |
| eglute | there is also a very long discussion on that patch | 15:48 |
| rockyg | I'll comment today, but want to do a more thorough review of the individual scores. | 15:48 |
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| markvoelker | But on the other hand glanceclient and openstackclient both support v2 as has been discussed, so it's debatable whether it gets credit for tha criteria or not on those grounds | 15:48 |
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| rockyg | The person with the best info on this is dhellmann, so I'll circle back with him, too. | 15:49 |
| markvoelker | rockyg: please also see https://review.openstack.org/#/c/213353/7/working_materials/scoring.txt for discussion of that criteria | 15:49 |
| eglute | #action rockyg will review image scoring in the next couple days | 15:50 |
| eglute | for the sake of time, lets move to the next. | 15:50 |
| eglute | Cinder #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/221631/ | 15:50 |
| markvoelker | rockyg: and this thread: http://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/openstack-dev/2015-September/075398.html | 15:50 |
| markvoelker | eglute: +1 | 15:50 |
| eglute | the cinder one received little discussion | 15:51 |
| eglute | i guess cinder is not controvertial? | 15:51 |
| hogepodge | it's pretty stable | 15:51 |
| eglute | :D | 15:51 |
| markvoelker | Errr...did folks see the ML discussion yesterday? =) | 15:51 |
| eglute | markvoelker which thread? | 15:52 |
| hogepodge | the version deprecation thread | 15:52 |
| markvoelker | #link http://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/openstack-dev/2015-September/075689.html | 15:52 |
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| eglute | right, but we already adding only v2 apis? | 15:53 |
| hogepodge | the takeaway is that some users are depending on v1, but v2 is going to be the default gate-enabled api | 15:53 |
| markvoelker | eglute: that's potentially the problem. Most folks are still using v1 according to the voices on the operator's thread | 15:53 |
| rockyg | fyi on glance: see http://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/openstack-dev/2015-September/074360.html | 15:53 |
| hogepodge | by the time cinder becomes required, this will be solved | 15:53 |
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| hogepodge | same with glance | 15:53 |
| eglute | ah ok, i didnt read the full thread | 15:53 |
| hogepodge | same with keystone (one would hope) | 15:53 |
| hogepodge | (on all three) | 15:54 |
| hogepodge | I think that defcore is helping to drive the urgency of that. | 15:54 |
| eglute | are we ok with making it advisory for now and not making it required until most people have moved on? | 15:54 |
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| rockyg | So, most of these fixes are aimed for Mitaka. | 15:54 |
| markvoelker | eglute: totally. v2 should absolutely be made advisory in my mind | 15:54 |
| markvoelker | eglute: it's maybe just a question of whether v1 should or not. At this point I'm thinking no, but it's debatable. | 15:55 |
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| zehicle | o/ | 15:55 |
| markvoelker | especially now that cinder has apparently backed off of removing v1 from the codebase | 15:55 |
| zehicle | sorry, my 9:30 got pushed to 10. | 15:55 |
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| eglute | i am not a fan of 2 versions in guidelines. I would rather see something be advisory for more than 6 months than have 2 versions | 15:55 |
| rockyg | with v1, I'm with markvoelker, since it *will* be going in the next year, it's not the future.... | 15:56 |
| zehicle | what does adoption of v1 look like? it is public? | 15:56 |
| markvoelker | eglute: I'm a big fan of having multiple versions of API in a guideline because it creates transition time for end users. | 15:56 |
| rockyg | v1 can be gone with O | 15:56 |
| rockyg | but not before. Same with Glance | 15:57 |
| zehicle | aka, pubblic facing | 15:57 |
| markvoelker | zehcile: see http://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/openstack-dev/2015-September/075689.html or to sum up: v1 adoption is pretty high | 15:57 |
| zehicle | ok | 15:57 |
| eglute | markvoelker but then that means companies must have both versions running | 15:57 |
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| markvoelker | eglute: And that is totally doable and a good thing for end users. | 15:57 |
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| markvoelker | anyway, we're almost out of time, so let's continue that discussion in #openstack-defcore | 15:58 |
| eglute | markvoelker i agree that it is doable. yes, 1 min left | 15:58 |
| markvoelker | I'm ok with the v2 patch going in | 15:58 |
| eglute | any last words | 15:58 |
| markvoelker | will gerrit-review it today | 15:59 |
| eglute | markvoelker i will merge it after it is ready | 15:59 |
| hogepodge | I won't be +2'in the patches I submitted, so that will fall on eglute and zehicle | 15:59 |
| eglute | thanks everyone, we ran out of time. if there is anything urgent, i will be around in the defcore irc | 15:59 |
| eglute | #endmeeting | 15:59 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 15:59 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Wed Sep 30 15:59:51 2015 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 15:59 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/defcore/2015/defcore.2015-09-30-15.00.html | 15:59 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/defcore/2015/defcore.2015-09-30-15.00.txt | 15:59 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/defcore/2015/defcore.2015-09-30-15.00.log.html | 15:59 |
| zehicle | O_o not much for timing today | 16:00 |
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| sdake | #startmeeting kolla | 16:30 |
| openstack | Meeting started Wed Sep 30 16:30:42 2015 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is sdake. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 16:30 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 16:30 |
| SamYaple | first | 16:30 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: kolla)" | 16:30 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'kolla' | 16:30 |
| sdake | #topic rollcall | 16:30 |
| akwasnie | hello | 16:30 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "rollcall (Meeting topic: kolla)" | 16:30 | |
| SamYaple | o/ | 16:30 |
| sdake | o/ | 16:31 |
| jpeeler | hi | 16:31 |
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| inc0 | good evening | 16:31 |
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| pbourke_ | o/ | 16:32 |
| rhallisey | hey | 16:32 |
| sdake | #topic announcements | 16:32 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "announcements (Meeting topic: kolla)" | 16:32 | |
| sdake | 1. liberty-rc1 was released on Tuesday the 29th | 16:32 |
| sdake | 2. libertuy-rc2 is scheduled for the 2nd | 16:33 |
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| sdake | 3. inc0 is up for core reviewer nomination | 16:33 |
| inc0 | \o/ | 16:34 |
| sdake | please vote on inc0's proposed core reviweer | 16:34 |
| sdake | any announcements from others? | 16:34 |
| SamYaple | yes | 16:34 |
| SamYaple | we have had a successful deploy of liberty-rc1 fro mdocker hub WITH ceph | 16:34 |
| SamYaple | not by me | 16:35 |
| SamYaple | external party :) | 16:35 |
| sdake | nice | 16:35 |
| rhallisey | cool | 16:35 |
| sdake | surprised they were able to figure it out without ceph docs :) | 16:35 |
| SamYaple | i was the ceph docs! | 16:35 |
| SamYaple | its just one command | 16:35 |
| sdake | #topic rc1 release announcement | 16:35 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "rc1 release announcement (Meeting topic: kolla)" | 16:35 | |
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| sdake | ok I'd like to write our release announcement for rc1 for the next 7-10 minutes | 16:36 |
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| sdake | #link https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/kolla-liberty-rc1-announcement | 16:37 |
| sdake | please open that up and lets get cracking on writing the announcement, I will send after the meeting | 16:37 |
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| jpeeler | does an rc release announcement only include items from the immediate last release or all of liberty up to that point? | 16:43 |
| inc0 | jpeeler, our liberty release notes will be short | 16:43 |
| inc0 | "we made kolla." | 16:43 |
| rhallisey | SamYaple, don't think we can add in tgt back in? | 16:45 |
| rhallisey | could just use the patch I had originally | 16:45 |
| rhallisey | then refine it in M | 16:45 |
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| inc0 | jpeeler, rhallisey as for ironic I really want to have tripleo undercloud kolla-based | 16:47 |
| rhallisey | inc0, overcloud is in the making | 16:48 |
| inc0 | akwasnie created ansible script to deploy vm, install os, and download/deploy aio kolla there | 16:48 |
| SamYaple | rhallisey: yea well add it back in in rc3 at the latest | 16:48 |
| rhallisey | agreed | 16:48 |
| SamYaple | i have it working but its unstable | 16:48 |
| rhallisey | SamYaple, kk | 16:48 |
| SamYaple | plus there is a bigger issue with it that is to much to discuss now | 16:48 |
| SamYaple | but i need to make sure doesnt exist (data corruption) | 16:49 |
| inc0 | we need to solve ironic and networking there and that should do | 16:49 |
| jpeeler | inc0: there's a blueprint for using standalone heat to accomplish that, but a lot has changed in kolla since the ide of doing that | 16:49 |
| inc0 | we need heat, ironic, neutron, keystone, glance and nova leasy | 16:49 |
| inc0 | least | 16:49 |
| sdake | ok we ar ewrapped I htink with that | 16:50 |
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| inc0 | anyway, that's good topic to talk about over sushi in tokyo | 16:50 |
| sdake | #topic rc2 bug squashing | 16:50 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "rc2 bug squashing (Meeting topic: kolla)" | 16:50 | |
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| sdake | #link https://launchpad.net/kolla/+milestone/liberty-rc2 | 16:51 |
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| sdake | Ok I'd like eveyrone in the channel to pick one additional bug that is not currently assigned | 16:51 |
| sdake | we need to be fixing 1 bug a day to have a hope of releasing Kolla bug free by the end of the dev cycle | 16:52 |
| sdake | which is 2 weeks | 16:52 |
| sdake | we have releases on the 2nd and 9th | 16:52 |
| sdake | these are hard deadlines | 16:52 |
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| sdake | the process is submit to master, then once it merges, please use a cherrypick -x operation to backport to stable/liberty | 16:52 |
| sdake | please do not merge features into stable/liberty | 16:53 |
| sdake | there are two features we are merging into stable/liberty | 16:53 |
| sdake | these are the start.sh refactor | 16:53 |
| sdake | and the openstack-base refactor for centos | 16:53 |
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| SamYaple | if we dont backport that backports become really really hard | 16:53 |
| sdake | if there are other features that peoople want in the rcs, lets get them on the table now for discussion | 16:53 |
| SamYaple | oh nvm | 16:54 |
| sdake | samyaple i dont comprehend what you just said :) | 16:54 |
| SamYaple | i read that wrong | 16:54 |
| SamYaple | i thought you said no to those merging | 16:54 |
| SamYaple | you said only those | 16:54 |
| sdake | right | 16:54 |
| sdake | i am open to others | 16:54 |
| SamYaple | yes agreement | 16:54 |
| sdake | but i dont think there are othres to be had | 16:54 |
| sdake | typically these are what ar ecalled "FFES" | 16:54 |
| sdake | or "feature freeze exceptions" | 16:54 |
| sdake | by the end of the M cycle i'd like to hand off release cycle management to the openstack release team | 16:55 |
| sdake | which means we will need FFEs for everything after x-3 | 16:55 |
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| sdake | and the release management team doessn't like ffes in general | 16:55 |
| sdake | so I am not keen to push us too fast into this process, but for Mitaka I'd like to start using the FFE process more reguarlly | 16:55 |
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| sdake | sorry above "by endo f the N cycle" | 16:56 |
| sdake | any quesitons ? | 16:56 |
| SamYaple | i think thats doable give the maturing of this | 16:56 |
| sdake | agreed | 16:56 |
| sdake | that will help our adoption | 16:56 |
| sdake | but slow our feature velocity | 16:56 |
| SamYaple | i feel like we wont have too horibly many more *touch-all-files* patches | 16:56 |
| rhallisey | SamYaple, agreed | 16:56 |
| sdake | yup I htink we are nearly done with those | 16:57 |
| inc0 | I think that's ok once we have functional gating | 16:57 |
| sdake | ok any final q/a related to the releae process and rc2/rc3? | 16:57 |
| sdake | I just want ot say I am so proud of our community and the amount of sheer output our team has | 16:58 |
| sdake | this is the third openstack project i've led into the integration of OpenStack and this team is rockin! | 16:58 |
| sdake | we have a really high output team, lets keep it up:0 | 16:58 |
| sdake | ;) I mean | 16:58 |
| sdake | #topic open discussion | 16:58 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "open discussion (Meeting topic: kolla)" | 16:58 | |
| rhallisey | ya great job. Very exciting work | 16:59 |
| jpeeler | i actually have a potential, change all files patch. i'll put it up and see what people think about it | 16:59 |
| rhallisey | sdake, thanks for leading us :) | 16:59 |
| sdake | rhallisey you guys lead me, you just dont know it :) | 16:59 |
| sdake | jpeeler what does it involve? | 16:59 |
| sdake | I mean what is its value | 16:59 |
| SamYaple | yea jpeeler im curious what is it? | 17:00 |
| jpeeler | variable renames - value is not much, but if now is the time to get it in | 17:00 |
| sdake | for liberty those pathces are not goin toh appen :) | 17:00 |
| SamYaple | jpeeler: what variables? | 17:00 |
| SamYaple | with my start.sh refactor there is really only 1 place to change things | 17:00 |
| jpeeler | all.yml | 17:00 |
| SamYaple | ohh ansible variables | 17:00 |
| jpeeler | i wonder if gerrit will allow me to upload a horribly out of date patch, probably not | 17:01 |
| SamYaple | yea that might be cool. we need some changes for clarity | 17:01 |
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| sdake | jpeeler it will | 17:01 |
| SamYaple | plus thats not container rebuild affectnig so that is backport potenial i think | 17:01 |
| jpeeler | SamYaple: essentially grouping (not sure what ansible terminology that is) | 17:01 |
| SamYaple | because its not api | 17:01 |
| sdake | ya i dont mind I just dont want ot break things prior to release | 17:01 |
| SamYaple | agreed | 17:02 |
| sdake | lets get a patch up | 17:02 |
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| sdake | today if possible | 17:02 |
| sdake | even if its notperfect | 17:02 |
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| sdake | so we understand hwat the suggested change is | 17:02 |
| jpeeler | SamYaple: you be around in a few? | 17:02 |
| jpeeler | for the record, gerrit forces rebases. so i gotta do that first | 17:02 |
| SamYaple | jpeeler: yea | 17:02 |
| sdake | jpeeler oh wasn't aware of that | 17:02 |
| sdake | bummer :( | 17:02 |
| jpeeler | i'd kind of like to finish lunch and then i'll get the one file change up | 17:02 |
| jpeeler | and if we decide it's worth doing, it'll change everywhere else | 17:03 |
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| sdake | ok anyone have anything else they would like to discuss? | 17:04 |
| SamYaple | ubuntu-source images are pushed to docker hub | 17:05 |
| SamYaple | for liberty-rc1 | 17:05 |
| sdake | sam can you push cnetos as well? | 17:05 |
| sdake | without testing is fine | 17:05 |
| SamYaple | ill be pushing centos (untested) source and binary tomorrow morning hopefully | 17:05 |
| sdake | cool thanks ! | 17:05 |
| SamYaple | the ubuntu images are 648MB in total | 17:06 |
| SamYaple | for full download | 17:06 |
| SamYaple | thanks to the compression from the docker hub | 17:06 |
| sdake | how do you determine the size of that? | 17:06 |
| SamYaple | host local registry, du -sh | 17:06 |
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| sdake | sounds good | 17:07 |
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| sdake | fantastic work everyone! | 17:07 |
| SamYaple | agreed | 17:07 |
| SamYaple | way to go team | 17:07 |
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| sdake | please take a few moments to vote on inc0's core proposal | 17:08 |
| sdake | if you havne't already | 17:08 |
| SamYaple | harmw_ ^^ when you are around | 17:08 |
| sdake | anything else folks would like to discuss or shall we call it a day? | 17:08 |
| sdake | sounds good then :) | 17:09 |
| harmw_ | yoo | 17:09 |
| sdake | see ya in channel :) | 17:09 |
| sdake | #endmeeting | 17:09 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 17:09 | |
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| openstack | Meeting ended Wed Sep 30 17:09:08 2015 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 17:09 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/kolla/2015/kolla.2015-09-30-16.30.html | 17:09 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/kolla/2015/kolla.2015-09-30-16.30.txt | 17:09 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/kolla/2015/kolla.2015-09-30-16.30.log.html | 17:09 |
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| j^2 | o/ | 19:00 |
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| j^2 | :( | 19:02 |
| j^2 | no one is around? | 19:02 |
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| SamYaple | j^2: im here. im always here... | 19:04 |
| SamYaple | j^2: what meeting where you here for? | 19:04 |
| j^2 | i thought we had our Tools meeting here | 19:04 |
| SamYaple | yup j^2 thats what eavesdrop says | 19:05 |
| SamYaple | every two weeks though | 19:05 |
| j^2 | yeah ok i’m not crazy | 19:05 |
| j^2 | oohh | 19:05 |
| SamYaple | is this an even or odd week | 19:05 |
| j^2 | i thought it was every week | 19:05 |
| j^2 | even | 19:06 |
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| SamYaple | Every two weeks (on odd weeks) on Wednesday at 1900 UTC in #openstack-meeting-4 (IRC webclient) | 19:06 |
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| j^2 | SamYaple: nice, thanks for that. wow, i completely missed that portion of the time | 19:06 |
| SamYaple | j^2: anytime! see ya around | 19:06 |
| Rockyg | I'm here, but didn't have it on my calendar | 19:08 |
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| Rockyg | o/ | 19:58 |
| Rockyg | #startmeeting log_wg | 20:00 |
| openstack | Meeting started Wed Sep 30 20:00:40 2015 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is Rockyg. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 20:00 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 20:00 |
| jokke_ | o/ | 20:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: log_wg)" | 20:00 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'log_wg' | 20:00 |
| * bknudson lurks | 20:00 | |
| Rockyg | jokke_, bknudson others? I need to creat a list... | 20:01 |
| * jokke_ bangs the bushes to scare bknudson out ;) | 20:01 | |
| Rockyg | grrr. I'm fighting git and gerrit right now, too. | 20:02 |
| jokke_ | you :o | 20:02 |
| jokke_ | sounds serious | 20:02 |
| bknudson | what's the problem? | 20:02 |
| Rockyg | trying to file my candidacy for tc and the gerrit remote can't be found and can't be removed, either | 20:03 |
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| jokke_ | Rockyg: .git/config | 20:04 |
| bknudson | I'd start over with a fresh git clone | 20:05 |
| bknudson | I'm lazy that way | 20:05 |
| Rockyg | yeah. not happening. I'm causing python to throw a traceback. | 20:05 |
| Rockyg | That's what I did! | 20:05 |
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| jokke_ | ;) | 20:06 |
| Rockyg | yeah. not happening. I'm causing python to throw a traceback. | 20:07 |
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| Rockyg | So I want to thank bknudson and dhellmann for their work on getting more doc strings into config options | 20:07 |
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| bknudson | maybe we'll have regular doc days | 20:08 |
| bknudson | like once a month | 20:08 |
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| jokke_ | so did you guys have productive doc day? I didn't see anything ongoing on the etherpad after dumping the current texts there | 20:08 |
| Rockyg | Now I need to go to the docs meeting and ask for a section for log config | 20:08 |
| bknudson | most of the doc work this time was just making the doc structure more consistent | 20:09 |
| bknudson | so that they were all doing autogeneration of docs | 20:09 |
| bknudson | and all autogenerating entrypoints | 20:09 |
| jokke_ | good stuff | 20:09 |
| bknudson | and all generating change history | 20:09 |
| bknudson | I did pick up a oslo.log doc bug and fix that so now the config options say that most of them are ignored if you switch to logging config file from oslo.log config options | 20:10 |
| jokke_ | so I should get better & more consistent output if I pulled genconfig again? | 20:10 |
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| bknudson | you'll see it on the developer doc pages. | 20:11 |
| bknudson | off of here: http://docs.openstack.org/developer/openstack-projects.html | 20:11 |
| jokke_ | ah, even better | 20:11 |
| Rockyg | yay! | 20:11 |
| bknudson | so for example oslo.db was missing a bunch of modules because they weren't auto-docs: http://docs.openstack.org/developer/oslo.db/ | 20:11 |
| bknudson | now they're all there: http://docs.openstack.org/developer/oslo.db/#api-documentation | 20:11 |
| bknudson | we'll need a release of oslo.log before the config option doc changes are available for genconfig | 20:12 |
| jokke_ | sounds like it was productive then | 20:12 |
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| bknudson | y, but also pretty low-level stuff for now. | 20:13 |
| Rockyg | what's the chance we have a release for Liberty? | 20:13 |
| bknudson | liberty was several weeks ago. | 20:13 |
| bknudson | for the oslo libs | 20:13 |
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| Rockyg | Yeah, I know. | 20:14 |
| jokke_ | yeah ... but the bugfix at least would be backportable | 20:14 |
| jokke_ | improvements not maybe so | 20:14 |
| Rockyg | But, I guess I can get the docs folks to take the output and incorporate in user docs | 20:15 |
| Rockyg | So, anything else to talk about? Other than I'm going to run for TC if I can get gerrit to work before 5:59 UTC 10/1 | 20:16 |
| Rockyg | Unless I already missted the deadline and it was this morning :-( | 20:17 |
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| bknudson | hopefully I can make some real headway on keystone logging this release. | 20:18 |
| bknudson | I've got some help now but it'll take a while to bring him up to speed. | 20:18 |
| Rockyg | any chance you can grep the code base and see how many places oslo.log is called with ERROR? I'd love to know the scope of the error code work | 20:19 |
| Rockyg | I'm still learning what I can and can't do with git | 20:20 |
| bknudson | $ find keystone -name "*.py" | xargs grep LOG.error | wc -l | 20:20 |
| bknudson | 27 | 20:20 |
| Rockyg | Nuthin! That could easily be changed by hand. I bet nova is a lot more, though. | 20:21 |
| bknudson | 168 | 20:21 |
| Rockyg | OK! jokke_ , see, ECs could be fixed by hand. | 20:21 |
| bknudson | 2182 for all of openstack repos | 20:22 |
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| jokke_ | devstack-02 :: ~ % find glance -name "*.py" | xargs egrep -i "LOG.error|logging.error" | wc -l | 20:22 |
| jokke_ | 780 | 20:22 |
| Rockyg | OK. these are great numbers. | 20:22 |
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| bknudson | 2571 is for all openstack with that grep | 20:23 |
| Rockyg | jokke_, so what is the difference? Oh, I see, both log.error and logging.error | 20:23 |
| jokke_ | so we're about 3rd on glance ... Duh! | 20:23 |
| Rockyg | Wow!. | 20:24 |
| Rockyg | But, that may mean better error handling in glance. | 20:24 |
| jokke_ | Rockyg: and case insensitive | 20:24 |
| bknudson | I only get 114 for glance | 20:24 |
| Rockyg | I wonder if all those different error paths in conductor lead back to the same error generating code for "no valid host" | 20:24 |
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| bknudson | make sure you don't have a bunch of .tox es | 20:25 |
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| jokke_ | 113 ... looks more sensible, yeah | 20:26 |
| jokke_ | I was one step too high and had indeed the tox venvs there | 20:26 |
| Rockyg | Which means all that talk about needing to auto generate is nonsense. | 20:27 |
| Rockyg | It could all get done in a sprint for each project. | 20:27 |
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| jokke_ | I think that's what I was saying a year ago :P | 20:28 |
| Rockyg | Maybe we can get agreement on putting the string in and do a POC with keystone | 20:28 |
| bknudson | so what are you thinking of doing? | 20:28 |
| jokke_ | until I was convinced otherwise | 20:28 |
| bknudson | have an extra parameter to LOG.error with the message ID? | 20:28 |
| Rockyg | https://review.openstack.org/#/c/172552/ | 20:28 |
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| Rockyg | need to tweak it a bit, then convince the devs we really need it. | 20:29 |
| Rockyg | Which we do. | 20:29 |
| Rockyg | yup | 20:29 |
| Rockyg | I'll suck the numbers out of this meeting and add them to the spec | 20:30 |
| Rockyg | That should help some. | 20:30 |
| Rockyg | How about numbers for CRITICAL and WARNING? Those would increase the load, but we could do it as a "while you're in there. | 20:31 |
| bknudson | we don't have that many errors in keystone... if it's caused by the client that would be an info. | 20:31 |
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| bknudson | there's 44 warnings | 20:31 |
| bknudson | 4 critical | 20:32 |
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| Rockyg | Kewl | 20:32 |
| jokke_ | devstack-02 :: ~/glance/glance ‹master› % find . -name "*.py" | xargs egrep -i "LOG.error|logging.error|LOG.critical|logging.critical|LOG.warn|logging.warn" | wc -l | 20:32 |
| bknudson | actually only 2 critical | 20:32 |
| jokke_ | 261 | 20:32 |
| jokke_ | devstack-02 :: ~/glance/glance ‹master› % find . -name "*.py" | xargs egrep -i "LOG.error|logging.error|LOG.critical|logging.critical" | wc -l | 20:32 |
| jokke_ | 115 | 20:32 |
| bknudson | 2 of the critical log calls are in hacking tests. | 20:32 |
| Rockyg | nice. A couple of interns could do it over a summer, no problem. | 20:33 |
| bknudson | they could write a script to do it. | 20:34 |
| bknudson | and spend the summer partying | 20:34 |
| jokke_ | and learn hell of a lot of openstack :) | 20:34 |
| Rockyg | And any one project only needs 4 places in the number portion | 20:34 |
| Rockyg | yeah! | 20:34 |
| jokke_ | bknudson: I'd like to just give them the task and see how they prefer to solve it :P | 20:34 |
| Rockyg | even better. | 20:35 |
| jokke_ | then after they have done it by hand ask if they thought about scripting it :P | 20:35 |
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| Rockyg | Depends on the intern. I knew a guy who interned between sophmore and junior years. He was supposed to right a bunch of code in fortran, but didn't know it. so, he wrote a fortran interpreter in LISP and wrote all the code in LISP. | 20:37 |
| Rockyg | Had it done in two months. | 20:37 |
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| jokke_ | I'm blessed, haven't really touched either :) | 20:38 |
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| Rockyg | Guys, take a look at the proposed cross project sessions and make some comments: http://odsreg.openstack.org/ | 20:38 |
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| Rockyg | I ended up with three sessions proposed, because I somehow managed to submit error codes three times and *THERE IS NO WAY TO DELEATE A PROPOSAL* | 20:39 |
| Rockyg | sorry for yelling. | 20:39 |
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| jokke_ | Rockyg: we have the log-wg session dedicated for that already | 20:41 |
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| bknudson | we have 1 sesion | 20:41 |
| bknudson | ? | 20:41 |
| Rockyg | Ah. OK. Hmm. | 20:42 |
| bknudson | for log wg | 20:42 |
| jokke_ | yes | 20:42 |
| bknudson | great | 20:42 |
| jokke_ | http://sched.co/4Fjf | 20:42 |
| Rockyg | make a comment in the prosal on odsreg then, please? Thanks! | 20:42 |
| Rockyg | It'll get tossed from that then. | 20:42 |
| jokke_ | I did | 20:45 |
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| jokke_ | Rockyg: you told me that this was the topic you wanted working session for so I earmarked it for that ;) | 20:45 |
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| Rockyg | :-) | 20:46 |
| jokke_ | anything else? | 20:47 |
| Rockyg | nope. I think that covers it. | 20:48 |
| Rockyg | We done? | 20:48 |
| jokke_ | I think we are for now around this topic | 20:49 |
| Rockyg | any other topics? | 20:49 |
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| jokke_ | not from me | 20:49 |
| Rockyg | Once I get the candidacy thing squared away, I'll gather all the related logging and standards reviews together. I'm just a bit distracted at the moment;-) | 20:50 |
| jokke_ | understandable | 20:50 |
| Rockyg | Well, let's end this thing, then! | 20:51 |
| Rockyg | #endmeeting | 20:51 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 20:51 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Wed Sep 30 20:51:38 2015 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 20:51 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/log_wg/2015/log_wg.2015-09-30-20.00.html | 20:51 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/log_wg/2015/log_wg.2015-09-30-20.00.txt | 20:51 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/log_wg/2015/log_wg.2015-09-30-20.00.log.html | 20:51 |
| Rockyg | Thanks all! | 20:51 |
| jokke_ | thnx! | 20:51 |
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