Thursday, 2015-02-26

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nikhil_k#startmeeting Glance14:00
openstackMeeting started Thu Feb 26 14:00:15 2015 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes.  The chair is nikhil_k. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.14:00
openstackUseful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.14:00
*** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: Glance)"14:00
openstackThe meeting name has been set to 'glance'14:00
hemanthmo/14:00
ativelkovo/14:00
kragnizo/14:00
nikhil_khttps://etherpad.openstack.org/p/glance-team-meeting-agenda14:00
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stevelleo/14:00
mfedosino/14:00
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krykowskio/14:01
ivasilevskayao/14:01
nikhil_k#info K-3 FF proposal date is Mar 12 for Glance14:01
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sigmavirus24o/14:02
nikhil_kThat means, all the feature related code needs to be proposed & merged by that date14:02
Olenao/14:02
rosmaitao/14:02
lakshmiSo/14:02
nikhil_khttps://launchpad.net/glance/+milestone/kilo-314:02
nikhil_kPlease take a look at that and try to review the linked features + Artifacts on priority14:03
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nikhil_kmfedosin: ativelkov : Can anyone of you add Artifacts related BPs to k3?14:03
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ativelkovnikhil_k: sure. Do you want a single artifacts BP or separate BPs for each commit?14:04
mfedosinnikhil_k, sure, we're working on it14:04
nikhil_kativelkov: as many specs we've,14:04
pkoniszewskio/14:04
nikhil_kplease update their milestone to be k314:04
ativelkovthis means two: one for semver and another one for eveything else14:05
nikhil_kyes14:05
ativelkovok14:05
nikhil_k(unless discussions from here on call for any other one, I'm trying to be generic)14:05
nikhil_kAlso, we've had several requests about https://blueprints.launchpad.net/glance/+spec/sighup-conf-reload14:06
nikhil_kI just wanted for someone with enough cycles to test that functionally and double check if we did not miss anything14:06
nikhil_k#topic Question: grouping artifacts by type version in the list output (as proposed on mini-summit)14:07
*** openstack changes topic to "Question: grouping artifacts by type version in the list output (as proposed on mini-summit) (Meeting topic: Glance)"14:07
nikhil_kWho proposed that?14:08
sigmavirus24ativelkov: ?14:08
nikhil_kativelkov: looks like you?14:08
sigmavirus24(going by color)14:08
ativelkovyes14:08
ativelkovJust a quick question14:08
ativelkovon the mini-summit there was a proposal to group artifacts by the version of their type14:08
ativelkovI mean, in the "list artifacts" API output14:09
ativelkovin case if the type version is not specified14:09
ativelkovThis remains an action item on me, so I wanted to clarify if that is a good idea or not14:10
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nikhil_kI stand +1 on that14:10
hemanthmI'm wondering if we necessarily have to do it by default14:10
ativelkovWhy can't it be done on client side?14:11
hemanthmhow about we provide a param for grouping14:11
ativelkovThe problem with it is sorting and getting the marker for pagination iteration14:11
ativelkovif this is just a plain list, then the id of the last record is the marker for the next page request14:12
ativelkovif the output is grouped then there is no such thing as a "last record"14:12
nikhil_kativelkov: true, that makes things a bit complex14:13
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ativelkovand the sorting order between items in different group cannot be easily defined if the client wants to compare them14:13
nikhil_kativelkov: ok, how bad would it be to do on glaceclient?14:14
ativelkovon the contrary, grouping may be always done on the client-side, as the records contain all the needed fields14:14
ativelkovnikhil_k: that's what I wanted to suggest: leave it for client(s)14:14
sigmavirus24And sorted() is rather fast once we have all the records14:14
nikhil_kativelkov: ah ok, so supported client and not the consumers. cool14:14
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nikhil_ksigmavirus24: the worry there is that, people might want to fetch more records out of the DB frquently14:15
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sigmavirus24nikhil_k: yep14:15
ativelkovSo, if everybody agrees, then I drop that action item: we'll leave API call to output just list of items, not groups14:16
nikhil_ksure, please keep a note on the spec that mentions this drawback14:17
hemanthmativelkov, was there a good usecase for grouping by default?14:17
ativelkovhemanthm: I don't know - this was said by somebody at the summit14:17
ativelkovI didn't remember the usecase behind that.14:18
nikhil_khemanthm: The general feeling was about usability. Not having to go through all the non relavant artifacts14:18
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nikhil_kok, we can discuss the details offline if that's ok14:19
ativelkovnikhil_k: if you want to get only the relevant ones, you may always specify type version explicitly14:19
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kragniznikhil_k: isn't that where filtering would be more useful?14:19
ativelkove.g. GET /v2/artifacts/someType/v1.2/14:19
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nikhil_k#info ativelkov to update the Artifacts spec to state that grouping of API results is too complicated due to pagination14:19
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nikhil_kkragniz: ativelkov : true but if you've multiple ones and are doing something between browsing and searching then this becomes relevant14:20
nikhil_kcan we move on?14:21
nikhil_kI think we can discuss the details offline and/or on ML14:22
ativelkovsure14:22
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nikhil_k#topic Abandoning stale PS from review14:22
*** openstack changes topic to "Abandoning stale PS from review (Meeting topic: Glance)"14:22
nikhil_khttps://etherpad.openstack.org/p/glance-cleanout-of-inactive-PS14:22
nikhil_khttp://comments.gmane.org/gmane.comp.cloud.openstack.devel/4635214:23
nikhil_kPlease reply to that thread if you've something to say14:23
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nikhil_kGuess jokke_ proposed that and is not around so, may be we'd move on14:24
kragnizyeah, move on14:24
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nikhil_k#topic python-glanceclient release 0.16.014:24
*** openstack changes topic to "python-glanceclient release 0.16.0 (Meeting topic: Glance)"14:24
nikhil_khttp://osdir.com/ml/openstack-dev/2015-02/msg01858.html14:25
nikhil_khttp://docs.openstack.org/developer/python-glanceclient/#id114:25
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nikhil_k(I think it was jokke_ again who proposed that topic ??)14:25
sigmavirus24or pkoniszewski14:26
nikhil_kThat's all the relevant info, (I think) we need14:26
sigmavirus24or krykowski14:26
sigmavirus24heh14:26
nikhil_k#topic Questionable reviews14:26
*** openstack changes topic to "Questionable reviews (Meeting topic: Glance)"14:26
sigmavirus24Ohai that's me14:26
nikhil_khttps://review.openstack.org/#/c/159068/14:26
nikhil_ksigmavirus24: sure14:27
sigmavirus24So https://review.openstack.org/#/c/159068/ is questionable because it presents a serious backwards compatibility issue with the glanceclient14:27
pennerco/14:27
sigmavirus24It's also indicative of the fact that we either need to dedicate more time to bug triaging so people don't just pick up non-triaged bugs14:27
sigmavirus24The less tangential question here is: Do we even want to require a name for a created image?14:28
rosmaitait's weird not to have one, but as long as there's a uuid, who cares?14:28
sigmavirus24Commenting on that review/bug would be helpful14:28
sigmavirus24rosmaita: right and if the API doesn't require one, why should the client is the bigger question14:28
nikhil_kI'd just -2 it as that was the original use case, name is not a required attr so we'd not force it14:29
rosmaitasigmavirus24: you are correct, the "official" glanceclient should respect the API, private glance clients can do whatever they like14:29
sigmavirus24The bug was never discussed either14:29
sigmavirus24rosmaita: right14:29
sigmavirus24ativelkov: kragniz other thoughts?14:30
nikhil_ksigmavirus24: I do not think that discussions are mandatory on bugs before someone picks it up. Many times the bugs are filed because you're working on something14:30
kragnizI agree with rosmaita14:30
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ativelkovWell, I agree that if the name is not required, then we should not enforce it in glance cli.14:30
mclarenseems a bit late for a v1 change of this kind IMHO14:30
nikhil_kheh14:31
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rosmaitalooking at the api docs, name is not marked as optional ... but there is no uniqueness requirement, and an empty string is a string, so ...14:32
ativelkovI think that this discussion (allowing to create images without a name) happens periodically :)14:32
sigmavirus24So the other one, I added before Flavio and nikhil_k chimed in but everyone should still take a look at the bug: https://launchpad.net/bugs/1279832 and review: https://review.openstack.org/#/c/158982/14:32
openstackLaunchpad bug 1279832 in python-glanceclient "nova image-list can run slowly." [Wishlist,In progress] - Assigned to Shashwat Srivastava (shashwat-srivastava)14:32
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flaper87o/14:33
flaper87why does this keep happening to me?14:34
sigmavirus24Anyway, I think we can move on unless people want to discuss those further14:34
flaper87sigmavirus24: thanks for the ping14:34
sigmavirus24flaper87: you're welcome14:34
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sigmavirus24I'll ping you more often and regularly in the future =P14:34
flaper87sigmavirus24: THANK YOU!14:34
flaper87:D14:34
nikhil_khmm, flaper87 good point. may be I need a courtesy ping14:34
flaper87nikhil_k: please please please14:34
flaper87I'd really appreciate it14:34
flaper87I do have a calendar reminder14:34
flaper87I just don't have a calendar14:35
sigmavirus24we need a meeting bot that pings people in #openstack-glance14:35
flaper87:P14:35
nikhil_kcool14:35
sigmavirus24Just don't create an action item for that =P14:35
nikhil_k#topic glance_store release 0.1.11 status14:35
*** openstack changes topic to "glance_store release 0.1.11 status (Meeting topic: Glance)"14:35
nikhil_khttp://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/openstack-dev/2015-February/057386.html14:35
nikhil_khttps://launchpad.net/glance-store/v0/v0.1.1114:35
nikhil_kList glance_store 0.1.11 in https://trello.com/b/GFXMXxsP/openstack-glance14:35
* flaper87 clicks and clicks14:36
* flaper87 loves those dogs14:36
nikhil_kthanks to flaper87 , that trello board is readable in public (public read access is tested, if you cannot hit it please refresh or try a different tab/browser)14:36
nikhil_kthat's on on that from me14:36
nikhil_kmoving on..14:36
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flaper87:)14:37
nikhil_k#topic glance_store release 0.1.1214:37
*** openstack changes topic to "glance_store release 0.1.12 (Meeting topic: Glance)"14:37
nikhil_khttps://launchpad.net/glance-store/+milestone/v0.1.1214:37
nikhil_khttps://trello.com/b/GFXMXxsP/openstack-glance14:37
nikhil_kWe usually set a tentative date on the release so that people are aware14:38
mclarenkragniz: we should add our socket leak fixes to the 0.16.1 client release?14:38
flaper87I need to sync again with cindy to understand the status of the glance_store refactor14:38
flaper87but It'd be lovely to have it in 0.1.1214:38
nikhil_kIf you need some specific ones in a particular release, the dates can be adjusted +2 days14:38
flaper87Do we want a glance_store release before the Kilo release ?14:38
kragnizmclaren: I was looking at 0.17.0 for those14:38
flaper87like 2 weeks after K-3 ?14:38
nikhil_kAnother reason why the release can be delayed: there aren't enough commits to be released14:38
* flaper87 literally made that up14:39
mclarenkragniz: they unbreak nova though, so high priority in my view...14:39
nikhil_kOne release would be a bit before K314:39
nikhil_kMar16th or so14:39
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sigmavirus24mclaren: they're not backwards incompat and they're bug fixes so +1 on 0.16.1 if we can get them reviewed14:40
* flaper87 confused are we talking about the client or glance_store ?14:40
flaper87:P14:40
nikhil_kflaper87: store14:40
kragnizmclaren: yeah, good point14:40
nikhil_kflaper87: some are talking about client14:40
* flaper87 rolls eyes :P14:40
mclarensorry, speaking of turn...14:40
flaper87re glance_store it sounds good to have 1 or even 2 minor releases before Kilo :)14:41
flaper87There are still things that are a must fix before kilo goes out like the chunk/offset handling14:41
flaper87zhiyan: has patches for that14:41
nikhil_kflaper87: sure  (just trying to not break any gates and keep things smooth at the release week)14:41
nikhil_kif we can get those patches reviewed soon, it'd be awesome14:42
flaper87I'll make that a priority for me14:42
nikhil_kappreciate it14:42
nikhil_k#topic Metadef Notifications14:42
*** openstack changes topic to "Metadef Notifications (Meeting topic: Glance)"14:42
zhiyanThanks for you incoming review14:42
nikhil_kTravT: wanna go?14:43
TravTThis review is ready, we think: https://review.openstack.org/#/c/148546/14:43
TravTkrykowski: updated it last night with outstanding comments14:43
nikhil_knice14:43
krykowskiyup, its in really good shape ;)14:43
nikhil_kkrykowski: you might want to check the jenkins failure though14:44
nikhil_kpeople _may_ not review something that has -1 on it already14:44
TravThmm I don't see a jenkins failure14:45
krykowskiit has +1 from Jenkins14:45
krykowskiJenkins is a good guy :)14:45
nikhil_kTravT: krykowski : my bad, I confused you for flaper8714:45
kragniza grave mistake14:45
nikhil_ksorry about that, we'r good14:45
TravTalways a good idea to assume flaper87 has jenkins failures?14:45
TravT;)14:46
nikhil_k(and I'm asleep)14:46
nikhil_kanyways, moving on..14:46
sigmavirus24TravT: that was harsh =P14:46
nikhil_k#topic glanceclient next few releases14:46
*** openstack changes topic to "glanceclient next few releases (Meeting topic: Glance)"14:46
nikhil_kTravT: heh, just something that I was looking at and switched the tabs before coming back to IRC window :P14:47
nikhil_khttps://launchpad.net/python-glanceclient/+milestone/v0.16.114:47
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nikhil_k#info This is due next week.14:47
nikhil_khttps://trello.com/b/GFXMXxsP/openstack-glance14:48
nikhil_kcard name glanceclient 0.16.114:48
nikhil_kOne more is created in LP scheduled to be released a few days before K314:49
nikhil_khttps://launchpad.net/python-glanceclient/+milestone/v0.17.014:49
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nikhil_kmclaren: Did you have something to mention for that earlier?14:49
flaper87TravT: LOL, is that because I always do? :P14:49
mclarennikhil_k: yeah14:49
sigmavirus24flaper87: that was the joke ;)14:49
TravTflaper87: wondered if you were still listening  ;-)14:49
mclarennikhil_k: can I just add to that launchpad ticket? (What's the process?)14:50
flaper87sigmavirus24: no no, I'm serious, I always do :P14:50
nikhil_kmclaren: yes, please feel free to add it to LP. We're using the trello board to see if there are any blockers14:50
* flaper87 clicks on the client card14:50
nikhil_kLP can get crowded sometimes14:50
mclarenhttps://review.openstack.org/#/c/157516/ and https://review.openstack.org/#/c/156975/14:51
kragnizmclaren: do you mean target bugs to a release?14:51
kragnizmclaren: you can do it from the launchpad bug page14:51
mclarenwe found that nvoa and cinder would fall over due to too many open fiel descripters14:51
flaper87re client, I need to get back to this: https://review.openstack.org/#/c/140336/14:51
kragniz("target to milestone")14:51
flaper87but I don't think it should block the release14:51
flaper87so, feel free to move that one to the next release14:51
flaper87(if needed)14:52
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nikhil_kflaper87: please do so, if possible for 0.16.114:53
nikhil_kmoving on..14:53
nikhil_k#topic Multivalue operator support14:53
*** openstack changes topic to "Multivalue operator support (Meeting topic: Glance)"14:53
nikhil_kpkoniszewski: that's you14:53
mclarenkragniz: looks like I added them telepathically :-)14:53
pkoniszewskithank you14:53
kragnizmclaren: that was me :P14:53
sigmavirus24mclaren: mind controls kragniz ... good to know ;)14:54
kragnizsigmavirus24: it's a problem14:54
* flaper87 wonders who mind controls mclaren14:54
pkoniszewskiso both patch sets are in a really good shape, actually both had +2 on (had to add two points to spec that zhiyan requested so it dropped)14:54
pkoniszewskiI'd like to ask for final review there https://review.openstack.org/#/c/147264/ - specification14:54
sigmavirus24pkoniszewski: 2 tiny nits from me and then I'm +2 on the spec14:54
sigmavirus24(sorry)14:54
pkoniszewskiand the code - https://review.openstack.org/#/c/148213/14:54
pkoniszewskisure, leave them and i'll address it asap14:55
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pkoniszewskithanks a lot!14:55
* sigmavirus24 is going to look at the code now14:55
pkoniszewskithats all for me14:55
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nikhil_kthanks pkoniszewski, I think based on the momentum we can try to get them in this week14:55
* sigmavirus24 is so glad to see zhiyan doing reviews again14:55
sigmavirus24== nikhil_k14:55
nikhil_kme too :)14:56
nikhil_k#topic Open Discussion14:56
*** openstack changes topic to "Open Discussion (Meeting topic: Glance)"14:56
mfedosinFolks, I am glad to introduce you our technical writer Olena :)14:56
zhiyanFor spec ? Or code?14:56
sigmavirus24zhiyan: both14:56
flaper87*cough* https://review.openstack.org/#/c/159129/ *cough*14:56
sigmavirus24Hi Olena !14:56
flaper87damnit, gate failure (facepalm)14:56
Olenahi Guys!14:56
zhiyanRevised spec you have a good eyes14:56
flaper87Olena: HEY! :)14:56
OlenaI am excited to join the Glance team14:56
sigmavirus24flaper87: high five jenkins in the face instead ;)14:56
flaper87sigmavirus24: good idea, gooooood idea!14:57
krykowskiOlena: Hi :)14:57
sigmavirus24:D14:57
Olena=)14:57
nikhil_kflaper87: http://giphy.com/gifs/cough-ToLQAiSdwq33G14:57
rosmaitaOlena: welcome!14:57
flaper87nikhil_k: huahuahauhauhau14:57
zhiyanWelcome!14:57
TravTwelcome Olena!14:57
flaper87good thing the other 2 are green14:57
flaper87(jenkins green, not the other green)14:58
nikhil_kWelcome Olena !14:58
sigmavirus24I just want to point out that https://review.openstack.org/#/c/140151/ will be unnecessary for any one using requests 2.5.3 or higher but it is still absolutely necessary for anyone using anything less than that14:58
rosmaitaOlena: maybe you can revise this page: https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Glance-where-are-the-docs14:58
flaper87sigmavirus24: jeeeez, I wanted to get back to that one last week14:58
flaper87I'll review it asap14:58
sigmavirus24flaper87: thank you14:58
nikhil_ksigmavirus24: yes, thanks for bringing that up.14:58
* sigmavirus24 needs to stop working upstream of openstack so he can complain about himself14:58
Olenaand I will take a look as well14:58
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nikhil_kOlena: Thanks for your feedback on the docs that mfedosin shared with us a few days back!14:59
Olenaoh, my pleasure14:59
nikhil_kOlena: please do let know if we can help you get familiar with Glance15:00
nikhil_k#openstack-glance is the place we're hiding in :)15:00
Olena=) okay15:00
nikhil_kok, thanks all for joining..15:00
flaper87o/15:00
kragniznikhil_k: thanks!15:00
kragnizOlena: and hi!15:00
nikhil_k#endmeeting15:01
*** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings"15:01
openstackMeeting ended Thu Feb 26 15:01:00 2015 UTC.  Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4)15:01
openstackMinutes:        http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/glance/2015/glance.2015-02-26-14.00.html15:01
openstackMinutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/glance/2015/glance.2015-02-26-14.00.txt15:01
openstackLog:            http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/glance/2015/glance.2015-02-26-14.00.log.html15:01
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salv-orlandoby "what we have" I mean the current algorithm15:22
sigmavirus24salv-orlando: wrong channel?15:22
salv-orlandosigmavirus24: yeah... can I blame my dog or cat for this?15:23
sigmavirus24salv-orlando: of course you can :D15:23
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b3rnard0#startmeeting OpenStack Ansible Meeting16:02
openstackMeeting started Thu Feb 26 16:02:34 2015 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes.  The chair is b3rnard0. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.16:02
openstackUseful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.16:02
*** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: OpenStack Ansible Meeting)"16:02
openstackThe meeting name has been set to 'openstack_ansible_meeting'16:02
sigmavirus24o/16:02
b3rnard0#topic Agenda & rollcall16:02
*** openstack changes topic to "Agenda & rollcall (Meeting topic: OpenStack Ansible Meeting)"16:02
cloudnullpresent16:02
mancdazhello16:02
b3rnard0#link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings/openstack-ansible#Agenda_for_next_meeting16:02
d34dh0r53pres ent16:02
b3rnard0'ello!16:03
stevellehello16:03
mattto/16:03
ApsupreSent16:03
b3rnard0#topic Review action items from last week16:03
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*** openstack changes topic to "Review action items from last week (Meeting topic: OpenStack Ansible Meeting)"16:03
odyssey4meo/16:03
Sam-I-Amhi16:03
palendaeHi16:03
b3rnard0I did not see any meeting conflicts, so I think we are good to go for this room/meeting time16:04
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b3rnard0d34dh0r53 update blueprint with template from cloudnull -- status?16:05
d34dh0r53done16:05
b3rnard0cloudnull ping jhesketh about creating a separate repo -- status?16:05
cloudnulli pinged him, but have to ping him again about all the things needed.16:06
cloudnullthat should be carried.16:06
b3rnard0#action cloudnull continue pinging jhesketh about creating a separate repo and other things16:06
b3rnard0BjoernT to help out with reviewing open PRs https://review.openstack.org/#/q/status:open+project:stackforge/os-ansible-deployment,n,z -- status?16:07
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sigmavirus24Bjoern isn't here16:07
b3rnard0okay, adding that as ongoing16:07
odyssey4meI suppose that's more of an info item anyway.16:07
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b3rnard0#info BjoernT to help out with reviewing open PRs https://review.openstack.org/#/q/status:open+project:stackforge/os-ansible-deployment,n,z16:08
b3rnard0#topic Blueprints16:08
*** openstack changes topic to "Blueprints (Meeting topic: OpenStack Ansible Meeting)"16:08
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cloudnullodyssey4me: you have the mic16:08
b3rnard0#link https://blueprints.launchpad.net/openstack-ansible/+spec/apt-package-pinning16:08
BjoernThey16:08
b3rnard0#link https://blueprints.launchpad.net/openstack-ansible/+spec/tunable-openstack-configuration16:08
odyssey4mealright - apt pinning16:09
b3rnard0hello BjoernT : we missed you :-)16:09
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BjoernTyes my calendar  alarm popped up to early to I got carried away16:09
odyssey4meessentially apt-pinning is one part of helping to make a consistant environment to reduce the possibility of unexpected changes in upstream apt repositories from affecting a production environment16:09
odyssey4methis is not the same as freezing a repository source - I'm looking into options there as a separate item which I think will go into a separate blueprint16:10
palendaeodyssey4me: Do we know how apt behaves if you pin a version and it gets removed from the repos?16:11
odyssey4methe idea here is simply to be able to pin a known set of important packages at a particular version, and to ensure that the list of packages is configurable by a user of os-ansible-deployment16:11
cloudnullpalendae it dies in a fire16:11
odyssey4mepalendae I would think that it'll just fail an apt-get install...16:11
Apsuodyssey4me: I disagree it's not the same as freezing. You may not be copying packages but you still have to A) identify the set of packages to consider as a unit in order to pin them and B) continue this process as a form of continual maintenance to update over time.16:11
odyssey4mebut if the package is already there, it should be fine16:11
Apsuodyssey4me: Freezing is the same thing, just copying/packaging vs pinning.16:11
cloudnullodyssey4me: for kilo could this be an rpc-extras thing?16:12
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ApsuBoth methods require package-set focused testing to try to identify what the right combination of versions is.16:12
cloudnullarguing that deployers may have a frozen image / repo that they want to use16:12
odyssey4meApsu: I think that's largely an academic discussion. The purpose of the pinning framework is not to have an entire copy of a repo, or even a partial copy... it's rather to configure apt to respect that you want a specific set of packages kept at a certain level.16:12
cloudnullIm defining image as an iso / net boot image.16:13
cloudnulland their pinning may be different than what we've stated should be pinned, with regard to ap16:13
cloudnull*apt16:13
odyssey4meThe maintenance of the pinning list we provide in the project is ours to live with, but a deployer is capable of putting their own process in to augment/override that.16:13
odyssey4meanyway, the blueprint's focus is to provide the capability to do pinning...16:14
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odyssey4mewe have already done so in icehouse/juno, but for master I'm looking at something a little more robust16:15
BjoernTWe do pin already , or is this not really implemented and we put a file in place16:15
odyssey4meBjoernT see my last statement :)16:15
mancdazBjoernT we removed the pinning in master, kind of16:16
cloudnullright, but if we pin enforcing pinning of packages outside of our control, IE we're not providing a repo for them to be downloaded from, I'd argue again that deployers will balk at the potential of pinning packages that do not exist.16:16
cloudnulljust playing devils advocate here.16:17
odyssey4mecloudnull sure, this is why I started looking at a more holistic view16:17
mancdazbut the versions would be configurable?16:17
mancdazso they can pin to a version they do have in their repo16:17
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odyssey4methis was highlighted specifically when a package was pulled from Ubuntu's LTS repo16:17
palendaemancdaz: I think cloudnull's saying if they don't carry the package at all16:17
cloudnullmancdaz they would be configurable, but what if i wanted to deploy using 14.1016:17
BjoernTHmm, we from the support team wrapping up currently all the pining stuff which goes towards frozen apt repos on rackspace mirrors so pining will be another requirement so double seal it16:17
mancdazwell that's a whole different kettle of fish16:17
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ApsuI think as soon as you have to actually do the process of picking a set of "vital" packages to pin, is the exact instant you've begun a frozen repo. For one thing, regular (fast) upstream repos don't keep long archives of previous package versions for a given distro release. Which means you need to copy the packages somewhere else and maintain that set yourself.16:18
cloudnullmancdaz: or debian 716:18
odyssey4meBjoernT exactly16:18
ApsuSo even if your argument is the list is small, it's still a requirement.16:18
git-harryWhy not say this is deployer responsibility and then if there is a community clamour for something it can be revisited.16:18
mancdazcloudnull well yeah, or centos etc16:18
odyssey4mehaving a frozen repo is one part, pinning is an extra protection on top of it16:18
BjoernTright16:18
cloudnullthere's nothing techincally stopping us from doing that now. we just dont support it16:18
odyssey4methis allows you to update your repo without causing an update across infrastructure entirely, then you can release/update the pins seperately in stages (if you want)16:18
BjoernTBecause I know that some packages just install their own apt sources and then they might override the rackspace mirrors16:19
mancdazodyssey4me or you do what we do with the python packages, in that you only provide the right version in the frozen repo16:19
mancdazhence no pinnig needed16:19
BjoernTYes, I agree, no pinning needed to python16:19
BjoernTsince we don't install apt packages in the first place16:19
odyssey4memancdaz yes, except as BjoernT has just mentioned, what happens if there's another repo on the host (like the default sources.list)16:20
odyssey4meso the way I see it it's a combination of the two to really seal it16:20
Apsuodyssey4me: An alternate solution is to make your repo updates use different series names, based on the revision of the software that matches the repo update, so a given deployment that's pointed at a previous series won't see the new packages anyway16:20
BjoernT+116:20
odyssey4me1) provide the ability to pin16:20
odyssey4me2) provide a frozen repo solution, similar to the python frozen repo solution16:20
ApsuThat's actually what I originally proposed during the primary "to freeze or not to freeze" discussions.16:20
odyssey4me1 gets used to allow staged updates in an environment16:21
odyssey4me2 is the backing repository16:21
ApsuI.e., instead of a series target like "trusty" in your deployment repo, you have a semver tag, matching the code revision that goes along with the package set that was tested with that code revision at deployment time.16:21
odyssey4meI'd like to separate the two items as, generally, pinning is actually not a bad stop-gap for the short-term needs...16:22
ApsuThen you get pinning automagically, and can update your repo as you desire -- under new series targets.16:22
mancdazApsu yes, except for the case mentioned above where someone drops a different sources.list entry16:22
mancdazpointing at trusty, or w/e16:22
odyssey4meTo have a repo mirror and freeze it, especially within our gating infrastructure, is slightly complicated. Do-able, but it'll take longer to get to a working state.16:22
Apsuodyssey4me: We actually had one going already. It's just that it was determined to not be a good investment of resources to have to actually do the frozen-repo-ownership-and-testing-and-maintenance part.16:23
odyssey4meSo, in order to try and keep the discussion clear and on-point - I ask that we keep the view that the two items, while linked, are separate.16:23
ApsuBecause it's an awful lot of work to test and identify the versions.16:24
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ApsuI'll stop derailing now. I just think actually accomplishing a pinning config is a major microcosm of freezing, and has identical challenges and resource costs.16:24
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BjoernTI would skin the cat from a different way, QE tests one version with latest packages for instance. If good, generate a list of packages/version and use that to create the repos16:25
odyssey4meApsu: yes, a full frozen repo is more complex... which is why I'd like to keep the topic on pinning first, we can get to z frozen repo method later16:25
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odyssey4meBjoernT that's similar to the idea I have in mind - something that is relatively low maintenance and easily generated16:25
odyssey4methe aim would be that a deployer of os-ansible-deployment would be able to generate a working set for their environment... but anyone who does many deploys or who wants to generate a working set for a versioned release can also do that16:26
odyssey4mebut again, now we're talking frozen repo... the blueprint is for putting the pinning infrastructure down first16:27
odyssey4meso, technically, this is entirely off-topic16:27
odyssey4meI'm hoping to have a blueprint ready for a frozen repo discussion next week, or perhaps a week after16:27
cloudnullBjoernT:  but again to argue both sides, why does Rackspace QE get to say what goes into that set of "good packages"? there has to be some other criteria? so any solution should be flexible enough to work outside of the Rackspace private cloud.16:28
mancdazodyssey4me so aside from just adding package versions to the package names that apt installs, what is the blueprint framework achieving?16:28
cloudnullodyssey4me sounds good.16:28
b3rnard0#info odyssey4me I'm hoping to have a blueprint ready for a frozen repo discussion next week, or perhaps a week after16:28
odyssey4memancdaz there are a few things to agree on16:28
odyssey4me1) using the debops.apt_preferences Ansible Galaxy role, instead of developing something specific to os-ansible-deployment16:29
odyssey4meis everyone happy with that approach?16:29
cloudnull+116:29
BjoernTcloudnull: Because they sign off on a tested package/RPC release set. They don't care what version we use in terms of apt packages16:29
BjoernTcloudnull: So they don't have a say, we just give them the latest versions we think are appropriate16:30
cloudnullright BjoernT  thats an RPC thing16:30
andymccris this an extras thing though or should it go in the os-ansible-deployment repo? It feels a bit like this is a "how we deploy openstack specifically" rather than a more general thing.16:30
cloudnull^ thats what im arguing16:31
ApsuTechnically it has nothing to do with os-ansible-deployment.16:31
ApsuIt's the environment o-a-d lives in.16:31
d34dh0r53+1016:31
odyssey4meany opinions around using debops.apt_preferences as the role to handle pinning from now in master? or do we need to give everyone time to review and form an opinion?16:31
cloudnulli like the ability for a package pinning framework using the upstream role.16:31
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cloudnullbut idk if its a os-ansible-deployment thing, or an rpc thing16:31
ApsuSeparating concerns, o-a-d isn't concerned with its environment as long as it 'works' in the way it expects. Which is primarily a question of python and minor tooling, which are already specified in the pip wheel system.16:32
andymccri'd say rpc - imho16:32
b3rnard0odyssey4me: we could put it out for comments/feedback and vote on it next week16:32
ApsuOS package pinning/freezing is moreso a question of avoiding bugs in those bits.16:32
mancdazsurely if you're providing anyone who uses o-a-d the opportunity to pin packages cleanly, it is an o-a-d thing?16:32
odyssey4meok, so I understand the view - but I would argue that it benefits os-ansible-deployment in that it helps with our development process... specifically with gating16:32
palendaeNo arguments against debops.apt_preferences, but the o-a-d vs rpc discussions is important16:32
git-harryWhat about soliciting feedback from the mailing list as to whether os package management should be part of the project?16:32
b3rnard0#info odyssey4me: 1) using the debops.apt_preferences Ansible Galaxy role, instead of developing something specific to os-ansible-deployment -- is everyone happy with that approach?16:32
cloudnullgit-harry: that sounds like a good idea .16:33
b3rnard0#info odyssey4me: any opinions around using debops.apt_preferences as the role to handle pinning from now in master? or do we need to give everyone time to review and form an opinion?16:33
odyssey4meif we pin stuff we use in-repo, then we avoid unnecessary distractions while we're trying to get os-ansible-deployment right16:33
b3rnard0git-harry: thanks for volunteering on that!16:33
git-harryb3rnard0: I think you mean odyssey4me16:34
odyssey4megit-harry agreed, and I will send a mail out regarding the blueprint and soliciting feedback16:34
odyssey4meI just want to do some tweaks before I do so.16:34
palendaegit-harry: Which mailing-list were you referring to? openstack-dev?16:34
b3rnard0#action odyssey4me Solicit feedback from the mailing list as to whether os package management should be part of the project?16:34
matttopenstack-operators may be well suited also16:35
git-harrypalendae: and the other one16:35
cloudnulli'd say both16:35
mancdazall the lists16:35
odyssey4meI'll do both.16:35
palendaeSo we'll have both public and private discussions of it?16:35
b3rnard0#info for odyssey4me action, send out to the openstack-dev and openstack-operators mailing list16:35
Apsumancdaz: https://www.drupal.org/files/x-all-the-things-template.png16:36
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cloudnullok, we've beaten this BP to death. lets get it on the ML once its ready and we'll go from there.16:36
ApsuSorry, and you're welcome. Carry on :)16:36
cloudnullpalendae: so long as its a bp on o-a-d its a public discussion .16:36
palendaecloudnull: ok, I wasn't sure what 'the other one' git-harry was referring to was16:37
cloudnullah.16:37
cloudnullno point on putting it on our internal MLs16:37
palendae^16:37
git-harrypalendae: sorry, yeah I meant openstack16:37
palendaeAgreed16:37
cloudnullNEXT: BP16:37
cloudnullImplement tunables for all OpenStack roles -- odyssey4me16:38
* cloudnull hands mic to odyssey4me 16:38
odyssey4meright16:38
odyssey4meso see the BP as an idea, not necessarily well formed at this stage16:39
odyssey4mewe're often getting requests for 'please add the ability to configure <x> in <y>.conf'16:39
odyssey4methat goes through a cycle of adding some variables, and the motions of test and release16:40
BjoernTyes, that will only increase the more we roll RPC out16:40
git-harryYeah, I don't see the point in hard coding templates16:40
odyssey4meslowly, over time, we're going to end up with a ton of variables and may also end up with a situation where many of them don't apply any more16:40
odyssey4me(as upstream has removed/changed them)16:40
odyssey4meso I was thinking that perhaps we can introduce the concept of tunables16:40
palendaeodyssey4me, BjoernT: Would that relate to https://bugs.launchpad.net/openstack-ansible/+bug/1424525 then?16:41
openstackLaunchpad bug 1424525 in openstack-ansible trunk "Make policy.json configurable / replaceable" [Medium,Triaged] - Assigned to Nolan Brubaker (palendae)16:41
odyssey4mesimply put, have our base required stuff as the variables as we do now16:41
andymccrwe did used to have almost exactly what you describe in the bp for a few of the openstack projects16:41
odyssey4mebut allow other bits to be added into tunables16:41
odyssey4methen, for any deployment, these tunables can be set as desired16:41
odyssey4mevery flexible, future proof16:41
BjoernTthe policy is probably different from normal key/value template changes16:41
palendaeOk16:41
cloudnullso we did have this before and it didn't work really well. IE https://github.com/stackforge/os-ansible-deployment/blob/icehouse/rpc_deployment/vars/config_vars/keystone_config.yml https://github.com/stackforge/os-ansible-deployment/blob/icehouse/rpc_deployment/roles/keystone_common/templates/template_gen16:42
odyssey4mepalendae that bug is a different kettle of fish16:42
palendaeodyssey4me: Ok, carry on then :)16:42
cloudnullthe issue was related to our support team having to manage all of that.16:42
odyssey4mecloudnull that, I would say, is exactly how not to do it16:43
cloudnullbut if we're good with that, it does making it flexable.16:43
odyssey4methat is far worse than what I'm proposing16:43
odyssey4mewhat I'm saying is that we keep the essentials in normal variables, assigned in the normal ways16:43
andymccrthe problem is16:43
cloudnulland add generators to specific things ?16:44
git-harryhalf and half is a bad idea16:44
andymccrif you want to override a certain var you have to override the whole nova_conf_settings: var for example?16:44
odyssey4meit's the fringe settings that should be tunable in the manner I'm suggesting - settings which may or may not exist yet16:44
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cloudnullwhich will result in 1 request to add a "normal" item and another on how to add something complext to the generator.16:44
git-harryandymccr: recursion16:45
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cloudnullbut if we can think of a better way to make it work, i'm down.16:45
cloudnullitll fix a never ending request.16:45
Apsu^16:45
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odyssey4meI think the idea needs development, and there are positive and negative aspects to each approach...16:46
odyssey4mebut yes, I really do think that it'll help us focus development effort in the right places and can make things super flexible (and reduce turnaround) for deployers16:46
b3rnard0do we want to solicit feedback as well for this blueprint?16:47
cloudnullagreed. its an awesome idea.16:47
odyssey4meso I'd like to recruit volunteers to help develop the idea16:47
odyssey4meperhaps what I could do is prepare an email with a variety of approaches and send it to the ML list16:47
cloudnullim down to help, but it may be good to get some other opinions in there.16:47
b3rnard0+116:47
odyssey4mebut, I'd like someone to help come up with those approaches16:47
odyssey4mesomeone(s)16:48
odyssey4me:)16:48
* cloudnull looks around for volunteers 16:48
b3rnard0#info odyssey4me: perhaps what I could do is prepare an email with a variety of approaches and send it to the ML list16:48
mancdazI like the 'do it all in one' rather than half and half16:48
mancdazI volunteer git-harry16:48
* b3rnard0 prepares the voluntell machine16:48
cloudnullhahahaha16:48
mancdazgit-harry has quite a good clear idea of how it could work16:48
cloudnullboom typie typie, make it go16:49
cloudnullgit-harry voluntold.16:49
git-harryI'm allergic to being voluntold16:49
cloudnullhahahaha16:49
b3rnard0#action git-harry help odyssey4me on blueprint https://blueprints.launchpad.net/openstack-ansible/+spec/tunable-openstack-configuration16:49
b3rnard0anyone else?16:50
b3rnard0okay let's move on then16:50
cloudnulllast few min , BjoernT you want to hit on those bugs listed?16:50
odyssey4meThe help would largely be to play devil's advocate.16:50
b3rnard0skipping revews let's do the bugs16:50
b3rnard0#topic Bugs16:50
*** openstack changes topic to "Bugs (Meeting topic: OpenStack Ansible Meeting)"16:50
Apsucloudnull: The bugs are definitely lookers. They could use some BjoernT hitting-on16:50
b3rnard0#link https://bugs.launchpad.net/openstack-ansible/+bug/142480816:51
openstackLaunchpad bug 1424808 in openstack-ansible juno "Add nova configuration options image_cache_manager_interval" [Low,Triaged] - Assigned to Andy McCrae (andrew-mccrae)16:51
odyssey4me#link https://github.com/stackforge/os-ansible-deployment/blob/icehouse/rpc_deployment/vars/config_vars/keystone_config.yml16:51
odyssey4me#link https://github.com/stackforge/os-ansible-deployment/blob/icehouse/rpc_deployment/vars/config_vars/keystone_config.yml https://github.com/stackforge/os-ansible-deployment/blob/icehouse/rpc_deployment/roles/keystone_common/templates/template_gen16:51
b3rnard0#link https://bugs.launchpad.net/openstack-ansible/+bug/142497116:51
openstackLaunchpad bug 1424971 in openstack-ansible "ansible keystone module breaks with mixed case name" [Wishlist,New]16:51
cloudnullif not ill wishlist them16:51
odyssey4mesorry - just adding those for reference16:51
b3rnard0odyssey4me: np16:51
b3rnard0where did BjoernT go?16:51
BjoernTyeah I know what the background is on this one16:51
BjoernTI mean 1424971 charles requested that this one get's fixed but I think he didn't know it was caused by manual changes16:52
cloudnullimo this is someone made bad life choices and now we want a way to deal with those choices.16:52
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BjoernTso I would wait with this bug until I talked with everyone16:52
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cloudnullBjoernT: on https://bugs.launchpad.net/openstack-ansible/+bug/1424808 is that something you'd like to see in 10.1.3 ?16:53
openstackLaunchpad bug 1424808 in openstack-ansible juno "Add nova configuration options image_cache_manager_interval" [Low,Triaged] - Assigned to Andy McCrae (andrew-mccrae)16:53
BjoernT1424808 looks ok to me16:53
BjoernTyes 10.1.3 is ok16:54
cloudnull^ b3rnard0  action item16:54
cloudnullany other open issue we want to talk about ?16:55
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b3rnard0#action andymccr to fix https://bugs.launchpad.net/openstack-ansible/+bug/1424808 in 10.1.316:55
openstackLaunchpad bug 1424808 in openstack-ansible juno "Add nova configuration options image_cache_manager_interval" [Low,Triaged] - Assigned to Andy McCrae (andrew-mccrae)16:55
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b3rnard0#info BjoernT: I mean 1424971 charles requested that this one get's fixed but I think he didn't know it was caused by manual changes16:55
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b3rnard0#topic Open discussion16:56
*** openstack changes topic to "Open discussion (Meeting topic: OpenStack Ansible Meeting)"16:56
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cloudnullok lets call it. give everyone back a few mins.16:56
ApsuWoot, meeting rollover minutes!16:57
cloudnullthanks everyone .16:57
ApsuGood talk.16:57
odyssey4me:)16:57
cloudnullApsu hahaha.16:57
b3rnard0#endmeeting16:57
*** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings"16:57
openstackMeeting ended Thu Feb 26 16:57:21 2015 UTC.  Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4)16:57
openstackMinutes:        http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/openstack_ansible_meeting/2015/openstack_ansible_meeting.2015-02-26-16.02.html16:57
openstackMinutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/openstack_ansible_meeting/2015/openstack_ansible_meeting.2015-02-26-16.02.txt16:57
openstackLog:            http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/openstack_ansible_meeting/2015/openstack_ansible_meeting.2015-02-26-16.02.log.html16:57
b3rnard0thanks everyone16:57
palendaeNext meeting can go 4 minutes long16:57
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