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| -openstackstatus- NOTICE: Jobs using devstack-gate (legacy devstack jobs) have been failing due to an ara update. We use now a newer ansible version, it's safe to recheck if you see "ImportError: No module named manager" in the logs. | 09:57 | |
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| SamYaple | portdirect evrardjp hogepodge pbourke hrw -- meeting in 10m in the channel | 14:52 |
|---|---|---|
| evrardjp | thanks SamYaple :) | 14:59 |
| SamYaple | #start-meeting loci | 15:00 |
| SamYaple | #startmeeting loci | 15:00 |
| openstack | Meeting started Fri Aug 31 15:00:25 2018 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is SamYaple. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 15:00 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 15:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: loci)" | 15:00 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'loci' | 15:00 |
| SamYaple | there it is | 15:00 |
| SamYaple | This is probably going to be more like an office hours everyweek | 15:01 |
| SamYaple | I added two things to the agenda, #link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings/LOCI | 15:01 |
| SamYaple | I started a Stien ptg etherpad for LOCI | 15:02 |
| SamYaple | #link https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/openstack-loci-ptg-stien | 15:02 |
| SamYaple | While we do have some historical information with plans for versioning, we can discuss it anew at the PTG and come to an agreement before implemntation | 15:03 |
| SamYaple | Anyone is welcome to add bits to the etherpad, but the primary topics we need to solve are around versioning and testing/integration with deployment projects like Kolla/OSH | 15:04 |
| evrardjp | versioning, you mean branching? | 15:06 |
| SamYaple | No, this would be avoiding branching | 15:07 |
| SamYaple | So right now master can build Newton->HEAD of Master | 15:07 |
| SamYaple | 1.0.0 would be able to build all that, and potential future versions. But what happens when we have to drop Newton/Ocata/etc is what the versioning could control. | 15:08 |
| evrardjp | well I'd like to discuss this, as I am not sure it actually can reliably in gates, but I am all ears | 15:08 |
| SamYaple | absoulutely | 15:09 |
| SamYaple | ive discussed this with a few peoples around infra, describing the issue and the workaround | 15:09 |
| SamYaple | so let me reiterate the issue now | 15:09 |
| SamYaple | If we do backports, we will need to backport most everything we do. Most of our patches are "thing A change upstream, change B in container" and that normally doesnt affect the code | 15:10 |
| SamYaple | so 1.1.0 would be able to deploy 15.1.3 and 15.1.0 (for example), but 1.0.0 might only be able to deploy 15.1.0 | 15:10 |
| evrardjp | backporting is not too hard, but it's a burden I agree. | 15:11 |
| evrardjp | By not branching I have the impression you'll increase technical debt | 15:11 |
| SamYaple | we do also have a small community, and that community used Newton and Ocata and Pike (as well as Queens and Rocky, but im not sure in production) | 15:11 |
| evrardjp | just having conditions that pile up | 15:11 |
| SamYaple | ah, well thats the thing. we wont have conditionals unless they are required to support the supported branches | 15:12 |
| evrardjp | do we think that should happen? | 15:12 |
| evrardjp | I mean we are talking about images here, not deploy tooling | 15:13 |
| evrardjp | so images almost never will have a change | 15:13 |
| SamYaple | i definetely do, yes | 15:13 |
| evrardjp | ok can you give me an example? | 15:13 |
| SamYaple | right, but the ability to *build* them will | 15:13 |
| SamYaple | if we build Newton right now, dont backport changes, in a month you *cannot* rebuild Newton | 15:13 |
| evrardjp | I don't see why rocky shuld be built differently than newton | 15:13 |
| evrardjp | SamYaple: that's a problem, but I don't understand why | 15:14 |
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| evrardjp | the process itself doesn't change, right? | 15:14 |
| evrardjp | So the only moving target is code, which is restricted by shas | 15:14 |
| SamYaple | not if we keep patching it for changes in pip/pypi/infra/openstack/etc | 15:14 |
| SamYaple | then it builds the same way | 15:14 |
| evrardjp | I am very confused | 15:15 |
| SamYaple | if we dont backport through 5 branches, newton will be broken due to upstream changes | 15:15 |
| SamYaple | changes in upper-constraints break things | 15:15 |
| evrardjp | yeah but it doesn't change the process | 15:15 |
| SamYaple | not for backporting, causes 5x the work and a mixed state of "stable" for all "stable" versions | 15:15 |
| evrardjp | what changes are inputs, i.e. the requirements sha, the version of the series of dependencies | 15:16 |
| SamYaple | thats not all, no | 15:16 |
| SamYaple | newton use pycrypto, ocata cryptography (those might be switched) | 15:16 |
| SamYaple | little stuff like that | 15:16 |
| SamYaple | there is about a year of conversation leading up to this, so perhaps im glossing over some stuff | 15:18 |
| SamYaple | but the desire is something like `docker build --build-arg PROFILES="newton"` | 15:18 |
| SamYaple | where that is changable and has all the selectors | 15:19 |
| SamYaple | we are building less of an openstack project and more of a openstack packager. No reason that packager can't be a single version and allow us to support many versions of openstack without adding overhead | 15:20 |
| SamYaple | evrardjp: if you want to flip it around, what are we gaining towards our goals with stable/branching? | 15:23 |
| evrardjp | sorry I am in 2 other meetings | 15:23 |
| evrardjp | :( | 15:23 |
| SamYaple | no problem, im also doing work :) | 15:23 |
| evrardjp | I think it's a discussion we should have with more eyes :) | 15:31 |
| SamYaple | We will | 15:32 |
| SamYaple | Also, closing the office hours, but ill still be around! | 15:32 |
| evrardjp | In this case I think it's more semantically correct to have branching :) | 15:32 |
| SamYaple | #endmeeting | 15:32 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Build image -- `docker build https://github.com/openstack/loci.git --build-arg PROJECT=keystone` || Review patches -- https://review.openstack.org/#/q/projects:openstack/loci+status:open" | 15:32 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Fri Aug 31 15:32:32 2018 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 15:32 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/loci/2018/loci.2018-08-31-15.00.html | 15:32 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/loci/2018/loci.2018-08-31-15.00.txt | 15:32 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/loci/2018/loci.2018-08-31-15.00.log.html | 15:32 |
| SamYaple | evrardjp: this means portdirect and the OSH crew will need to backport through 5 branches | 15:33 |
| SamYaple | for every patch | 15:34 |
| SamYaple | what would the gain be for the user to have these branches? | 15:34 |
| evrardjp | well it would motivate ppl to be at latest branches :p | 15:38 |
| evrardjp | :) | 15:38 |
| SamYaple | thats not *out* goal :P | 15:38 |
| SamYaple | we are by nature a project that already gets consumed a year or two after the code was written | 15:38 |
| SamYaple | its the reality, even if i dont like it | 15:39 |
| SamYaple | well the openstack code, our code has to stay fresh for said projects | 15:39 |
| SamYaple | oh man, i need to learn how to type better. s/*out*/*our*/ | 15:39 |
| evrardjp | SamYaple: periodics exist for a reason :) | 15:42 |
| hogepodge | SamYaple: I need to get this in my calendar | 15:42 |
| hogepodge | Was out for a run this morning... | 15:42 |
| evrardjp | you missed all the action hogepodge ! | 15:43 |
| evrardjp | but I guess your run was better worth it for your health :) | 15:43 |
| hogepodge | It's in my calendar now! | 15:43 |
| evrardjp | :D | 15:44 |
| hogepodge | Containers _are_ magic and solve all problems, including heart disease I'm sure | 15:44 |
| hogepodge | "Take two Docker and call me in the morning" | 15:44 |
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| SamYaple | heard that before | 15:48 |
| SamYaple | evrardjp: true, but what does branching *get* us with respect to our goals? -- im not seeing the upsides that outweigh the maintenace and additional complications | 15:49 |
| SamYaple | not saying they dont exist of course | 15:49 |
| evrardjp | I am split between two things -- that's why I'd prefer discussing it with a larger audience | 15:50 |
| evrardjp | because it follows what I added on the etherpad too | 15:50 |
| evrardjp | (chaining of bindeps) | 15:50 |
| SamYaple | sure, im just collecting PoV ahead of a future discussion, nothing binding :) | 15:51 |
| pbourke | meeting still on? | 15:54 |
| pbourke | just saw the notification! | 15:54 |
| pbourke | will put in my calendar for next week :) | 15:54 |
| SamYaple | its cool, with the PTG coming up, we don't have alot to discuss. | 15:55 |
| SamYaple | pbourke: hogepodge https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/openstack-loci-ptg-stien -- etherpad for topics | 15:55 |
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