Friday, 2016-09-23

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amotokiianychoi: you around?13:18
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ianychoiamotoki, I am here:)13:37
amotokiianychoi: hi. first, thanks for serving as a PTL!13:38
amotokiianychoi: I see confusion on string freeze from reviewer perspective. I had a discussion on horizon channel today.13:39
ianychoiamotoki, thank you very much! However I still need to learn a lot.13:39
amotokiianychoi: no problem. we're a team and a community.13:39
ianychoiCan I know what confusion is on-going in Horizon?13:40
amotokiianychoi: it is not specific to horizon. Around string freeze, reviewers feel what can be accepted or what are not.13:40
amotokiianychoi: I think we (both i18n and project teams) need more concrete guideline on string freeze.13:41
amotokiianychoi: you already jumped in a discussion on the -dev list a few days ago.13:41
amotokiianychoi: I think we (as i18n team) needs to express more feedback to project teams13:42
amotokifor example, what can be accepted? what are problems?13:42
ianychoiamotoki, I agree with it. Moreover, currently AFAIK there are 15 languages but for 2 languages, translation ratio is < 65%13:42
ianychoi(specific to Horizon but anyway)13:42
amotokiaga.. that is a bad news13:43
ianychoiSo I have been sending e-mails to the translators for a few days,13:43
amotokithough it happens several times before..13:43
ianychoiand now some guys are replying.13:43
amotokiwhat kind of replies?13:44
ianychoiThey said that they would make translations13:44
amotokiyay!13:44
ianychoi:)13:45
ianychoiBut... let's go back to your current concerns..13:45
amotokiI think we can do several things.13:45
ianychoiYep I agree that as a Ocata PTL I need to more express feedback to project teams.13:45
amotokithe final goal is to have a consensus on review guidelines on string freeze (and hopefully on stable branches)13:46
ianychoiBut just saying feedback that 'translators need more string freeze time' would not be feasible I think..13:46
ianychoiQuestion: in your saying, 'review' means Zanata review?13:46
amotokiwhat in my mind are: (1) first we gather what we expect "string freeze" and what we need from translators.13:46
amotoki'review' means a review in most openstack project.13:47
ianychoiOh, I see13:47
amotokiand then (2) we collect questions from reviewers of most projects (horizon related and server side projects)13:48
amotokiI can send a kickoff mail to the i18n list, and hopefully we can do (1) in the summit or so.13:49
ianychoiYes I like your idea. And now we also need how 'translation itself' and 'cross-relation with other teams' are well balanced I think.13:51
ianychoiI think for latest 6 months I have mainly seen the second point, however I could not see the first point.13:52
ianychoiI am now worried and thinking about how those things are well-balanced in our team.13:52
amotokifor the first point, previously we complained we had too many changes after "string freeze" (not hard string freeze).13:53
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amotokifor example, what kind of changes are okay after 'string freeze'?13:53
amotokiI think tens or twenty of small changes do not matter.13:53
ianychoiAha.. yep I totally agree with your point.13:54
amotokieven after "string freeze", I am suggesting to accept changes which are categorized into:13:55
amotoki(a) typo or wrong message should be fixed, or13:55
amotoki (b) feedbacks from translation (unless we have too many changes)13:55
ianychoiIt is not easy for me to build up such criteria, but I think 1) typos are allowed 2) Fuzzy strings classified as Zanata is also fine (e.g., Singular/plural problem)13:55
amotokiit is not easy. I agree.13:56
ianychoiOR I am not sure, but >80% similarity from the original sentence? This idea may come from the usage of translation memory, but it is not so easy.13:56
amotokiBig changes like accepting blueprints with a lot of new strings13:57
amotokithis is NOT NOT allowed13:57
amotokibut some small changes are welcome in general.13:57
amotokifor example, horizon team discussed about a change like this:13:58
amotokihttps://review.openstack.org/#/c/335026/1/openstack_dashboard/dashboards/project/instances/templates/instances/_flavors_and_quotas.html13:58
amotokia change from 'image' to 'boot source'13:58
amotokiis it allowed or not?13:58
ianychoi+1 And gradually, showing some best practices will be also good idea I think. http://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/openstack-dev/2016-September/104178.html13:58
amotokiyeah. I think we are reaching a consensus.13:59
ianychoiFor me, it is fine. But I will not like if the total number of those changes in one project would be for example >5%13:59
amotokitend to agree...14:00
amotokiwe don't want to see a pile of small change :(14:00
ianychoiOops... sorry I need have one hangout for one hour from now..14:00
amotokino worries.14:00
amotokiI think it is time to have some writing up.14:00
amotokiI will start the discussion in a couple of days14:01
ianychoiI think we have concensus :) Thank you very much14:01
amotokithanks!14:01
ianychoiAnd it seems that Kato-san is now a little busy..14:01
ianychoiSo I will share translation ratio for Horizon maybe tomorrow or the day after tomorrow.14:02
amotokigood reminder :)14:02
ianychoiI recently checked that Doug quitted from IBM.. So you are the only Horizon-I18n liaison :)14:02
amotokidoug-fish quitted IBM a couple of months ago14:03
ianychoiI did not know that.. :)14:04
amotokihe sent a mail to horizon folks... but no worries. we have many supporters14:06
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ianychoiamotoki, yep and thank you very much for raising up issue :)14:18
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