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| greghaynes | The only practical difference would be if we could still merge stuff even if we hit a gate failure, and IME that isnt something we have needed too much | 00:00 |
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| ianw | greghaynes: yeah, rpm mirrors are on our (pabelanger) plate | 00:03 |
| greghaynes | ianw: replied on patch | 00:03 |
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| greghaynes | hrm, I think I did... but gerrit is spinning | 00:04 |
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| haukebruno | hello everyone. I may have a dumb question: I filed a bug that could be solved in just editing 2 or 3 lines (even words) in the python-cinderclient code. I am asking myself now whether it is better to file those kind of bug or just checkout the branch from github, edit the lines and create a pull request. | 05:40 |
| haukebruno | but I have to say, that I am an ops guy and I am not that much into all that code and git stuff, so I don't want to bother any of you devs with crappy commits/pull requests/whatever ;) | 05:41 |
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| jroll | haukebruno: it's a bit more complicated than a PR: http://docs.openstack.org/infra/manual/developers.html | 06:30 |
| haukebruno | jroll, yep, saw that couple of minutes ago too :p thanks | 06:30 |
| jroll | heh, np | 06:31 |
| haukebruno | so I guess then it is the best to just file the bugs, even if there a that low hanging fruits | 06:31 |
| jroll | haukebruno: yeah, there's a lot of people that pick up low hanging fruit like that | 06:31 |
| jroll | and you're welcome to contribute, if you care to go through the setting up of everything :) | 06:32 |
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| haukebruno | jraim, I am willing to do so. openstack things become much bigger in our company this year, so the use-case for me (also from my personal view) is there :) | 06:34 |
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| jroll | awesome, good luck with it :) | 06:36 |
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| openstackgerrit | Merged openstack/governance: Update team diversity tags https://review.openstack.org/289283 | 09:18 |
| openstackgerrit | Merged openstack/governance: Add stable:follows-policy tag to nova and python-novaclient https://review.openstack.org/289438 | 09:19 |
| openstackgerrit | Merged openstack/governance: Add stable:follows-policy to Glance deliverables https://review.openstack.org/289499 | 09:19 |
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| cdent | p!spy | 13:55 |
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| jroll | cdent: sdague: as people that care about APIs, got a question for you | 13:55 |
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| sdague | jroll: fire away | 13:56 |
| jroll | we have the need for an (potentially) async GET request, where ironic may need to pxe boot a thing to be able to return results | 13:56 |
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| * cdent listens | 13:56 | |
| sdague | jroll: async GET? | 13:56 |
| jroll | how do you feel about a 202 with some sort of ETA in a header (retry-after or something) | 13:56 |
| jroll | heh. yeah. weird | 13:56 |
| jroll | so our provisioning agent may have code to do 'cleaning' (things like updating firmware, scrubbing disks) | 13:57 |
| jroll | it's pluggable, so it may vary from node to node | 13:57 |
| jroll | we have a feature where an operator can initiate a set of these steps | 13:57 |
| sdague | semantically GET is not supposed to change the state of the backend | 13:57 |
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| jroll | and would like an API to fetch said steps | 13:57 |
| sdague | honestly this feels more like a POST which returns a url for where the results would be | 13:57 |
| jroll | right | 13:57 |
| sdague | and a GET on that url which includes a status field of not-ready-yet in some way | 13:58 |
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| jroll | okay, that's a good point, I guess we were moving one ahead and having the GET trigger the fetch if they were not ready | 13:58 |
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| jroll | as an operator I don't like the do-a-GET, urgh not ready, do a POST, wait a bit, do a GET again | 13:59 |
| jroll | but it does sound "right" | 13:59 |
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| cdent | jroll, just to see if I understand let me see if I can recast this as a slightly different problem | 14:00 |
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| cdent | you've got a resource /foo/bar that a client may try to GET but on the first GET it is not ready yet, the representation needs to be built | 14:00 |
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| cdent | so you can't supply it | 14:00 |
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| cdent | jroll: is that close to what you're saying? | 14:00 |
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| jroll | cdent: that's accurate | 14:01 |
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| jroll | this is what we had decided, but questioning it again :) http://specs.openstack.org/openstack/ironic-specs/specs/not-implemented/manual-cleaning.html#get-nodes-node-ident-cleaning-steps | 14:01 |
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| * cdent looks | 14:02 | |
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| cdent | that seems complicated | 14:03 |
| sdague | jroll: what exactly are clean steps? | 14:03 |
| lucasagomes | cdent, sdague jroll fwiw this is the patch https://review.openstack.org/#/c/278566/3/ironic/api/controllers/v1/node.py | 14:04 |
| sdague | lucasagomes: right, the patch isn't going to help me | 14:04 |
| jroll | sdague: examples may be "scrub disks", "update bios", "verify no hardware disappeared" | 14:04 |
| sdague | as the concept isn't there | 14:04 |
| lucasagomes | sdague, there are comments there | 14:04 |
| sdague | jroll: and there is no abstract model for those? | 14:04 |
| bogdando | p!hist | 14:04 |
| bogdando | oops | 14:04 |
| lucasagomes | sdague, a list of steps to make sure the machine is clean and ready for the next teant | 14:04 |
| cdent | lucasagomes: what has initiated the cleaning | 14:05 |
| sdague | right, that ^^^ | 14:05 |
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| jroll | so | 14:05 |
| jroll | currently a driver in ironic may have clean steps, and a "hardware manager" (driver) in the agent may have clean steps | 14:05 |
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| jroll | currently those are combined and performed during the state transitions during tear down | 14:06 |
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| jroll | there is a need for operators to be able to execute these at will, when the node is in a "manageable" state | 14:06 |
| sdague | so the DELETE triggers it? | 14:06 |
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| jroll | (e.g. "I want to update the bios across my fleet") | 14:06 |
| lucasagomes | cdent, sdague different phases... so, 1. operator can manual invoke it, 2. clean steps are triggered once the instance is deleted from the machine 3. cleaning is triggered prior to the machine gets into the pool of "available nodes for deployment" | 14:06 |
| sdague | ok, so there is a POST to something that triggers a clean | 14:06 |
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| jroll | which is triggered by an api call | 14:06 |
| jroll | yes | 14:06 |
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| jroll | that POST is a list of clean steps | 14:07 |
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| openstackgerrit | Ben Swartzlander proposed openstack/governance: Change supports-upgrades to supports-upgrade https://review.openstack.org/293451 | 14:07 |
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| sdague | jroll: you have to tell it exactly what to clean? | 14:07 |
| cdent | is the clean-steps response a list of abstract steps, or actual cleanings that are happening somewhere? | 14:07 |
| jroll | and valid clean steps may differ between nodes, due to driver differences etc | 14:07 |
| sdague | that seems complex | 14:07 |
| sdague | and leaky | 14:07 |
| jroll | this is the api for doing so http://specs.openstack.org/openstack/ironic-specs/specs/not-implemented/manual-cleaning.html#put-v1-nodes-node-ident-states-provision | 14:07 |
| jroll | it is complex | 14:07 |
| lucasagomes | cdent, a list of available clean steps | 14:07 |
| jroll | I'm not sure about leaky | 14:07 |
| jroll | the use case for "manual cleaning" is, I want to perform a specific step | 14:08 |
| cdent | lucasagomes: for a given node? | 14:08 |
| lucasagomes | cdent, because different drivers can have different clean steps | 14:08 |
| sdague | jroll: leaky as in leaking all the internals out | 14:08 |
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| lucasagomes | cdent, correct, and each node has a driver associated to it (1:1) | 14:08 |
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| sdague | because the moment you say things like "different drivers have different steps" | 14:08 |
| sdague | this is no longer an API | 14:08 |
| sdague | it's a vendor blob | 14:08 |
| sdague | and all clients now have to have custom code for all drivers | 14:08 |
| cdent | so that part I can't understan is why the steps aren't ready when requested | 14:08 |
| cdent | what's the dependency being waited on? | 14:08 |
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| jroll | sdague: such is the life of hardware | 14:09 |
| jroll | I can't run "update iLO" code against a dell server | 14:09 |
| sdague | jroll: sure, but ironic could do an abstraction here | 14:09 |
| openstackgerrit | Ben Swartzlander proposed openstack/governance: Add supports-upgrade to manila https://review.openstack.org/293452 | 14:09 |
| sdague | step: firmware scrub | 14:09 |
| sdague | step: etc | 14:09 |
| sdague | there must be some high level constructs that repeat | 14:09 |
| cdent | brb | 14:09 |
| jroll | we could, it might fit, this is water under the bridge at this point | 14:10 |
| jroll | there's always giong to be something special | 14:10 |
| lucasagomes | cdent, the architecture is a bit complex, because there are steps that can be performed in a out of band fashion (a request to the management board) and others only in-band (e.g if it needs to access the local disk) | 14:10 |
| jroll | (though I agree that would make this API unnecessary) | 14:10 |
| sdague | and would make all the tooling against ironic a ton simpler | 14:10 |
| lucasagomes | cdent, for the in-band ones, the steps lives inside a ramdisk that will boot on the machine, so Ironic won't have immediate access to that information | 14:10 |
| cdent | lucasagomes: but it is just a list of steps that _can_ be done, not steps that _are_ being done? | 14:10 |
| lucasagomes | cdent, yes exactly | 14:10 |
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| lucasagomes | cdent, just steps that *can* be done | 14:11 |
| lucasagomes | not necessarily will run | 14:11 |
| cdent | ah ok, the ramdisk was a missing piece in my model | 14:11 |
| lucasagomes | right | 14:11 |
| * cdent still hasn't gone away for the brb he just said | 14:11 | |
| lucasagomes | cdent, my current suggesting to it, is to make that endpoint to GET the current steps discovered at the moment that the request was issued | 14:11 |
| lucasagomes | so it would possible return an empty dict {} if no steps are yet disocvered | 14:12 |
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| jroll | sdague: the blobbiness of this is also kind of a win for users - for example we use it downstream to define steps like "make sure dc ops didn't plug something into the wrong switch" | 14:12 |
| lucasagomes | or a partial dict or a full dict | 14:12 |
| sdague | jroll: it's only a win for users if all users need to write all their own client software | 14:12 |
| jroll | the abstraction vs pluggability discussion went out the door over a year ago, though, so I'd rather not go down that road | 14:12 |
| jroll | sdague: to be clear, the "manual cleaning" thing being worked on here tend to be one-off management tasks | 14:13 |
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| jroll | the automated cleaning on tear-down is when 99% of the cleaning stuff will happen and has no user intervention | 14:13 |
| sdague | ok, so I probably don't have good advice here because my advice is changes that mean you don't have this issue. | 14:14 |
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| jroll | ok | 14:14 |
| cdent | lucasagomes: I would agree with that: get a thing, it's contents is whatever the truth is right now. If possible, maybe include an attribute that indicates a measure of how complete things are | 14:15 |
| lucasagomes | cdent, exactly | 14:15 |
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| lucasagomes | cdent, even because that endpoint is never the source of truth IMHO | 14:15 |
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| lucasagomes | cdent, if one updates the ramdisk it can contain new steps | 14:15 |
| cdent | lucasagomes, jroll: that avoids a ton of complexity | 14:16 |
| lucasagomes | which may not be discovered yet at a certain time | 14:16 |
| lucasagomes | cdent, yeah, and it makes it a simple GET request, syncrhounously (200 ret code) | 14:16 |
| cdent | yes | 14:16 |
| lucasagomes | jroll, ^ what do you think? | 14:16 |
| jroll | cdent: what complexity does that avoid? we still need to indicate that it's (missing|incomplete) and do the work of asyncronously fetching the rest | 14:16 |
| lucasagomes | jroll, but that's the thing, we will never be 100% sure | 14:17 |
| cdent | jroll: you want to separate that complexity (the asynchrony) from the api | 14:17 |
| jroll | or are we saying the onus is on the client to tell it to update the rest | 14:17 |
| lucasagomes | jroll, what happens if one update the ramdisk that introduces new steps? | 14:17 |
| cdent | the api should be querying a source that updates itself as possible | 14:17 |
| cdent | but the client just gets what is available now, and that's life | 14:17 |
| jroll | {"last_fetched_from_inband": timestamp|NULL} maybe? | 14:17 |
| jroll | with another api to say go update this | 14:17 |
| lucasagomes | jroll, that's a way to indicate some point in time yes | 14:18 |
| lucasagomes | jroll, perhaps at inspection time we can update that | 14:18 |
| jroll | inspection doesn't always happen | 14:18 |
| jroll | but | 14:18 |
| jroll | we should update it whenever the agent is online, yes | 14:18 |
| lucasagomes | but we can try to agree here that the endpoint should return what is available *now* | 14:18 |
| lucasagomes | instead of having async GETs, which I don't like much | 14:18 |
| jroll | well I don't either, that's why I was looking for suggestions | 14:19 |
| lucasagomes | jroll, right, I mean as a manual trigger we can use inspection | 14:19 |
| jroll | no | 14:19 |
| jroll | not everyone runs inspector | 14:19 |
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| lucasagomes | jroll, ok, we can talk about the trigger later cause it's not relevant to the endpoint I think | 14:20 |
| jroll | yah | 14:20 |
| jroll | well | 14:20 |
| jroll | I think we need the other endpoint to update it when we release this one | 14:20 |
| lucasagomes | right | 14:20 |
| cdent | jroll: would it work to just update after a get | 14:20 |
| cdent | if the last fetched timestamp is too old, the client can go back in a while | 14:21 |
| lucasagomes | jroll, so so far: GET sync + timestamp indicating when the steps where updated? | 14:21 |
| cdent | leave the control in the client | 14:21 |
| cdent | don't guess | 14:21 |
| jroll | cdent: idk, maybe, that's a lot of work as the result of a get request | 14:21 |
| jroll | cdent: I'd prefer client tells it to update, I think | 14:21 |
| jroll | lucasagomes: yeah, and a POST or something to update it | 14:22 |
| cdent | or you could think of it as something akin to cache invalidation | 14:22 |
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| cdent | it's not clear to me why you want to give the client that responsibility, but I'm certain I don't understand the entire context | 14:22 |
| cdent | all the client wants is the best information, yeah? they don't want to manage its production | 14:22 |
| jroll | maybe we could do it as a result of the GET request | 14:22 |
| jroll | if an operator is doing maintenance on a thing though (which is the only reason this would be happening), they are likely to know if it needs an update | 14:23 |
| jroll | then again, we'll need to boot the agent soon anyway | 14:23 |
| jroll | so, /shrug | 14:23 |
| cdent | the reason for my mealy mouthedness about cache invalidation is to avoid the concerns about GET changing server state | 14:23 |
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| jroll | I mean, that is exactly what this is, a cache | 14:24 |
| cdent | jroll: if that's the case then why not have the following workflow: | 14:24 |
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| cdent | POST to upudate the cache, returns a url which upon GET has the current data, which indicates if it is "complete" | 14:24 |
| cdent | if it is not complete, just GET again | 14:24 |
| cdent | (without all that magic about retry headers) | 14:25 |
| cdent | just let the client do it when it wants | 14:25 |
| jroll | right, that's what I'm suggesting | 14:25 |
| jroll | with that GET url being canonical | 14:25 |
| jroll | and always the same | 14:25 |
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| lucasagomes | sounds good to me | 14:26 |
| jroll | that gives us the POST-wait-GET workflow, as well as the GET-maybe-POST-maybe-GET workflow | 14:26 |
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| cdent | all that said, I agree with sdague's comments about leakiness, but apart from that this seems a move in the right direction | 14:29 |
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| lucasagomes | cdent, yeah I agree with that as well. But the Ironic community decided that it was fine to have a state in Ironic were people can create custom actions to be invoked there was fine | 14:31 |
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| cdent | fair | 14:32 |
| lucasagomes | but yeah, i also would prefer the abstraction model | 14:32 |
| lucasagomes | cdent, sdague thanks a lot for the inputs | 14:32 |
| lucasagomes | very appreciated | 14:32 |
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| cdent | very welcome. this was much more straightforward than the other resty debate I was having in another channel | 14:33 |
| cdent | (which is still ongoing) | 14:33 |
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| sdague | as someone who is leading the charge on reversing that bit about nova, I think you'll find that you'll eventually need that abstraction or basically have mordred write that abstraction in shade for you (which means all other languages are left out) | 14:33 |
| sdague | someone will write that abstraction | 14:34 |
| mordred | what did I do? | 14:34 |
| * mordred reads scrollback | 14:34 | |
| sdague | because they will require it to do any real work | 14:34 |
| lucasagomes | sdague, heh yeah well, it's kinda late now because this is directly related at how the ironic state machine wroks | 14:34 |
| lucasagomes | works* | 14:34 |
| lucasagomes | and another refactor on it can be very disruptive | 14:34 |
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| lucasagomes | so we probably need to carry on with what we current have and make the best of it | 14:35 |
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| degorenko | jamespage, coreycb hi guys! I have question regarding sahara-dashboard package. zigo already implemented it in debian (http://anonscm.debian.org/cgit/openstack/sahara-dashboard.git/tree/debian), can you guys update it for uca too? | 15:53 |
| zigo | degorenko: The problem is that Horizon still doesn't support Django 1.9, so therefore, I can't upload it to Sid (or Experimental). | 15:54 |
| zigo | degorenko: Since Horizon isn't uploaded, it makes no sense to upload any of the plugins. | 15:55 |
| zigo | degorenko: If you want to help, then work on Horizon support for Django 1.9. | 15:55 |
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| zigo | degorenko: BTW, I don't think Canonical will push sahara or sahara-dashboard into UCA. It's "community maintained", which means I'm the only one working on it and Canonical only sync from Debian to the next version of Ubuntu. | 15:56 |
| zigo | degorenko: Maybe jamespage or coreycb will say otherwise, I'm not sure. | 15:56 |
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| degorenko | zigo, when i said uca - i mean cloud archive. And sahara already here. | 15:57 |
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| degorenko | zigo, but thanks for information about horizon, i didn't knew it | 15:57 |
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| zigo | degorenko: Ah... I didn't know they were pushing packages they don't maintain there. | 15:59 |
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| openstackgerrit | Jesse Pretorius (odyssey4me) proposed openstack/governance: Add Barbican & Magnum roles to OpenStack-Ansible Project https://review.openstack.org/293541 | 16:19 |
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| coreycb | degorenko, I'll have to check with jamespage about it. he's on holiday this week. | 16:37 |
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| degorenko | coreycb, ok, thank you | 16:37 |
| coreycb | degorenko, np | 16:37 |
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| degorenko | coreycb, ping me when you will have answer please :) | 16:37 |
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| coreycb | degorenko, will do | 16:37 |
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| ZZelle | zigo, hi | 16:41 |
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| zigo | ZZelle: Hi. | 16:48 |
| ZZelle | zigo, do you plan to package gnocchi in Mitaka release? | 16:48 |
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| openstackgerrit | Merged openstack/governance: Update lbaas dashboard repo to be similar to octavia releases https://review.openstack.org/290735 | 17:51 |
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| zigo | ZZelle: I did package it. | 20:22 |
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| zigo | ZZelle: https://packages.debian.org/search?keywords=gnocchi | 20:23 |
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| zigo | Oh, it's not uploaded to experimental... | 20:23 |
| zigo | Thanks for the reminder, I probably forgot to upload. | 20:23 |
| zigo | It's done though, so I just need to press the upload button... :P | 20:23 |
| zigo | Hum... | 20:24 |
| zigo | It's marked as uploaded already, weird. | 20:24 |
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| zigo | ZZelle: Looks like packages.debian.org is outdated, rmadisson is replying that gnocchi 2.0.2 really is in Experimental. | 20:25 |
| zigo | ZZelle: Plus it's there: http://ftp.fr.debian.org/debian/pool/main/g/gnocchi/ | 20:26 |
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