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| openstackgerrit | Igor Degtiarov proposed a change to openstack/ceilometer: Adds pylint check for critical error in new patches https://review.openstack.org/125906 | 08:39 |
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| idegtiarov | eglynn-office: hi! could you take a look on two patches https://review.openstack.org/#/c/121003/ and https://review.openstack.org/#/c/122387/ | 09:04 |
| idegtiarov | eglynn-office: It is seems that they are almost complete | 09:05 |
| openstackgerrit | Joe Hakim Rahme proposed a change to openstack/ceilometer: Run unit tests against PostgreSQL https://review.openstack.org/125910 | 09:05 |
| eglynn-office | idegtiarov: yep, will do | 09:16 |
| idegtiarov | eglynn-office: thank you sir! | 09:16 |
| cdent | eglynn-office: are you tracking the big tent governance reviews that mr hellman posted to os-dev? | 09:25 |
| cdent | it looks like the discussion could use some of your flavor | 09:25 |
| eglynn-office | cdent: yeap, I'm giving the patches a first pass throughout before commenting | 09:31 |
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| cdent | eglynn-office: I think this big-test conversation badly needs some input from ops/deploy people and the distro maintainers | 09:47 |
| cdent | Because one thing it doesn't seem to imagine well is the reality of people who need to track what's happening | 09:47 |
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| cdent | s/test/tent/ | 09:48 |
| * cdent sighs | 09:48 | |
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| eglynn-office | cdent: yeah, I agree on the complexity we'd be exposing downstreams to (... commented to that effect on gerrit) | 10:54 |
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| cdent | eglynn-office: I agree with your comments, but I was actually referring to the reality tht ops/deploy people probably think features provided by ceilometer (or more generically "Telemetry", and still more generically "notifiations") are a lot more important than the taxonomy experiments, thus far, are saying | 11:20 |
| * cdent updates coffee | 11:32 | |
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| jd__ | cdent: yeah there's truth in that | 11:50 |
| jd__ | I think ops/users don't really care about all of that anyway | 11:50 |
| cdent | I suspect they just want something that works without all the faffing about | 11:51 |
| cdent | tyranny of choise all over openstack | 11:51 |
| cdent | and we all suffer because of it | 11:51 |
| jd__ | sounds to me just like a problem of having SOA designed project playing well together in a CI | 11:51 |
| jd__ | s/project/projects/ | 11:51 |
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| cdent | calling any of openstack SOA is kind of laughable | 11:54 |
| jd__ | cdent: are you being sarcastic? :-) | 11:58 |
| cdent | Unproducively caustic perhaps? | 12:02 |
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| eglynn-office | cdent: yep, fancy taxonomy prolly matters not a whit to most ops folks, though surely the synchronized cadence of the release cycle does? | 12:19 |
| cdent | I think the cadence matters to distro people but not to people doing their own installs. | 12:19 |
| cdent | In fact I'd argue that the release cadence is one of the perverse incentives/controls | 12:20 |
| eglynn-office | "people doing their own installs" == "trunk chasers" (... i.e. doing their own CD from close to the bleeding edge on master?) | 12:21 |
| cdent | Or just installing python packages or whatever. | 12:21 |
| cdent | If I were running my own private cloud I wouldn't want to have to wait on redhat/canonical whoever to give me good stuff | 12:21 |
| cdent | nor would I want to wait on the openstack release managers | 12:22 |
| cdent | I'd want reliable stuff, as soon as it is reliable | 12:22 |
| cdent | and I'd want to install each service indepdendently of other stuff | 12:22 |
| cdent | oh ceilometer is upgraded, cool...I'll just update that | 12:22 |
| cdent | if we were really SOA (jd__) then that would be relatively straightforward as there would be clear demarcations and contracts between services | 12:23 |
| cdent | of course each service is itself too large and boundless | 12:23 |
| cdent | things should be smaller with more clear boundaries | 12:23 |
| cdent | (obviously the path to there is long and twisted) | 12:24 |
| eglynn-office | well if your cloud shop is big and involved upstream enough (say like RAX are) | 12:24 |
| eglynn-office | ... then you can prolly make the determination of "soon as it is reliable" | 12:24 |
| cdent | That is is _hard_ to determine "soon as it is reliable" is a problem all in itself... :) | 12:24 |
| eglynn-office | which is why users may want to reply on the blessings of an upstream release, given further blessings by their distro provider | 12:25 |
| eglynn-office | ... but yeah I take your point | 12:26 |
| cdent | sure, but the distros suffer because they want to install packages which do not map to the packing done in the services (e.g. ceilomter ipmi agent as as separate package) | 12:26 |
| cdent | Basically I don't think this big-tent stuff is remotely radical enough | 12:27 |
| cdent | right now the drivers of what gets done or not done are too indirect: the connection to users/ops/deployers has to be made closer | 12:27 |
| cdent | it's too hard to fail fast, in concert with those users | 12:28 |
| eglynn-office | I don't follow there, what packing done in the services for the ipmi agent isn't mapping to what? | 12:28 |
| cdent | zigo was in here yesterday asking about whether the ipmi agent should be a separate deb | 12:28 |
| eglynn-office | not zul? | 12:28 |
| zigo | cdent: I'm still in here ! :) | 12:29 |
| cdent | we talked about it a bit and the outcome was that yeah, people will probably want that from an installation mgt standpoint | 12:29 |
| cdent | :) | 12:29 |
| cdent | but if someone packages up the ipmi agent, they are basically packing up all of the ceilometer python package + some service management scripts but only using a small amount of the ceilometer python package | 12:29 |
| cdent | we architect our code in the same shape as the team working on it | 12:30 |
| cdent | whereas what we need are lots of smaller repos | 12:30 |
| cdent | that are intentionally disjoint so that the interfaces between then can be constantly tested | 12:30 |
| cdent | and when those interfaces fail we can know quickly | 12:30 |
| zigo | Ahum... I do think that I maintain enough packages already ... :) | 12:31 |
| zigo | I've reached 180 packages ... | 12:31 |
| cdent | and it also allows other teams to easily join into the repo creation | 12:31 |
| zigo | (only for OpenStack...) | 12:31 |
| openstackgerrit | A change was merged to openstack/ceilometer: isolate event storage models https://review.openstack.org/125502 | 12:31 |
| zigo | I don't think it's a good idea to split every project into smaller repos. | 12:31 |
| cdent | sure zigo, but that process doesn't have to be as complex as it is now if there are clear dependencies in the packaging, which are easily represented in the python packaging | 12:32 |
| eglynn-office | is it a huge issue with unused ceilometer code is installed on a node when just an individual service is being run there? | 12:32 |
| cdent | it's the only system I've ever seen that work well for all three of understanding, testing and participation | 12:32 |
| zigo | That's just more work for no huge benefits, IMO. We'll be still talking about the same code. | 12:32 |
| zigo | This also increases complexity. | 12:33 |
| cdent | huge? no, but if it involves installing unused requirements there are security risks, take up space, and it's just.... | 12:33 |
| cdent | messy | 12:33 |
| zigo | For example, currently, I have separate packages for: horizon, tuskar-ui, murano-dashboard. | 12:33 |
| zigo | It'd be a lot easier (at least for me) if everything was merged directly in Horizon. | 12:33 |
| cdent | You both are talking as developers and packagers | 12:33 |
| cdent | We shouldn't be optimizing for them | 12:33 |
| cdent | We should be optimizing for the users | 12:33 |
| zigo | I've seen the same issues on both 3 appearing at different moments. | 12:34 |
| zigo | So, it's duplicating the workload. | 12:34 |
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| eglynn-office | sure I meant that I wasn't sure that it would be a huge issue for users | 12:34 |
| cdent | It's _very_ clear that the governance talks are not about optimizing for the users | 12:34 |
| zigo | As for our users, the more component you add, the more complex it becomes to understand every components. | 12:34 |
| eglynn-office | cdent: no disagreement from me there | 12:35 |
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| cdent | As a user, zigo, I don't care about understanding the components, I care about having an ipmi agent on my baremetal | 12:35 |
| cdent | that's all | 12:35 |
| eglynn-office | cdent: it optimizing for the structure gate AFAICS | 12:35 |
| eglynn-office | structure *of the* gate | 12:35 |
| cdent | the gate, despite what everyone likes to say, is easy to change, people are not | 12:36 |
| zigo | Basically, our users would like to do "apt-get install openstack" and have everything to "just work" (tm). | 12:36 |
| zigo | I've tried to do some of that, but it's kind of hard to acheive given so many components. | 12:36 |
| cdent | is it hard to achieve because of the number components, or because the lack of granularity in the composition of those components? | 12:37 |
| eglynn-office | zigo: there's lots of potential choices hidden by a monlithic 'yum install openstack; | 12:37 |
| zigo | eglynn-office: I'd love if we were able to do both complex, HA and large deployments, and also address newbie users. | 12:38 |
| zigo | It's hard to do, but not impossible. | 12:38 |
| eglynn-office | zigo: I guess that what meta-installers like packstack and fuel and staypuft try to do | 12:39 |
| zigo | Form my point of view, these shouldn't even need to exist if OpenStack was easy enough to deploy. | 12:40 |
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| eglynn-office | zigo: ... but running the gamut from the noobs all the way to the super clued-in HA-aware is hard | 12:40 |
| cdent | zigo you've just walked back to the usual question: what is openstack? | 12:40 |
| zigo | These are very good software, doing awesome stuff though. | 12:40 |
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| cdent | I'm not sure it is a useful question. | 12:41 |
| cdent | openstack should be an umbrella which allows an assembly of stuff. | 12:41 |
| cdent | Those bits of stuff should take more care of themselves | 12:41 |
| zigo | Easy: OpenStack is that thing which I can't explain to my grand mother when she asks me what kind of job I'm doing ... :) | 12:41 |
| eglynn-office | cdent: your earlier comment "it's too hard to fail fast, in concert with those users" | 12:42 |
| eglynn-office | cdent: ... is edging towards the "explicit support for continuous deployment by downstream" model that's been mooted a few times | 12:42 |
| cdent | zigo++ | 12:43 |
| eglynn-office | cdent: ... if we can figure out how to make that work, it would be awesome | 12:43 |
| cdent | I don't think we can make it work when governance is supposed to cover everyone and everything. | 12:43 |
| eglynn-office | cdent: ... but it would still be just one option as to how our stuff in consumed | 12:43 |
| cdent | I think it requires the granularity that I describe above. | 12:43 |
| eglynn-office | cdent: ... e.g. smaller shops may well continue to prefer the release cadence, or even slower | 12:44 |
| cdent | It would help move some of the onus of aggregation more clearly on to the distros. | 12:44 |
| cdent | that's what major versions are for? | 12:44 |
| eglynn-office | "onus of aggregation" == "the decision as to what's in and what's not"? | 12:44 |
| cdent | which version, which services, etc | 12:46 |
| cdent | it would also allow some pieces to become "done" | 12:46 |
| cdent | for instance there may never need to be an upgrade to the ipmi agent. | 12:46 |
| eglynn-office | icehouse nova plus havana glance for ex? | 12:46 |
| cdent | For the rest of time version 1.0 (of it) goes on being used. | 12:46 |
| cdent | there is no icehouse nova in my mental model | 12:47 |
| cdent | there is version x.y.z of the nova-api and a different x.y.z of novaclient and nova-schedulere | 12:47 |
| openstackgerrit | Mehdi Abaakouk proposed a change to stackforge/gnocchi: Add a gnocchi dispatcher https://review.openstack.org/98798 | 12:47 |
| eglynn-office | combinatorial explosion in the gate? | 12:48 |
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| eglynn-office | cdent: hold that thought, /me needs to grab a sandwich | 12:49 |
| * cdent thinks the gate is a root of many evils | 12:49 | |
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| cdent | test better locally | 12:49 |
| * eglynn-lunch agrees that it's certainly the root of some evils | 12:50 | |
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| sileht | jd__, the swift_account resource is evil, you create a endless loop of samples publishing: the dispatcher post measures for 'storage.objects.incoming.bytes', into swift, that generate new 'storage.objects.incoming.bytes' samples, ... | 13:03 |
| jd__ | sileht: lol | 13:04 |
| jd__ | nice one | 13:04 |
| jd__ | at least we know it works :)) | 13:04 |
| sileht | jd__, my ceilometer metering queue got 100000 samples in some seconds | 13:05 |
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| jd__ | sileht: hehe | 13:14 |
| jd__ | sileht: not sure how to fix this, any idea? | 13:14 |
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| eglynn-lunch | jd__, sileht: avoid the circularity by somehow decorating the swift API calls from gnocchi with a header to indicate that they should be ignored from the metering PoV? | 13:22 |
| eglynn-lunch | ... i.e. shouldn't cause the swift middleware to emit a sample | 13:23 |
| cdent | bit of a problem if someone hasn't upgrade their swift middleware for some reason | 13:23 |
| eglynn-lunch | ... or should be counted, but batched up with the *next* sample emitted? | 13:23 |
| openstackgerrit | Mehdi Abaakouk proposed a change to stackforge/gnocchi: Add a gnocchi dispatcher https://review.openstack.org/98798 | 13:27 |
| sileht | eglynn-lunch, jd__, adding a attribute filter in the sources pipeline configuration to filter out the user used by gnocchi ? | 13:30 |
| jd__ | sileht: which means one have to configure or not break the configuration | 13:31 |
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| jd__ | the thing is that it'd be cool not to have to ignore the data too | 13:31 |
| jd__ | I like eglynn-office idea but I'm not sure it's safe? we need to be sure the request comes from Gnocchi | 13:32 |
| jd__ | we don't want anyone to be able to have its traffic not metered :) | 13:32 |
| cdent | It's also not safe or the reason I mentioned | 13:33 |
| cdent | s/or/for/ | 13:33 |
| cdent | (If if fact "safe" actually means "safe") | 13:33 |
| cdent | shit, I can hardly type s/if/in/ | 13:33 |
| eglynn-office | it feels wrong to just ignore the swift usage that comes from gnocchi | 13:33 |
| eglynn-office | ... seeing as that's still load on swift | 13:34 |
| eglynn-office | ... otherwise we'd get a false picture of the traffic hitting the swift proxy | 13:34 |
| eglynn-office | ... what about the batching idea? | 13:34 |
| cdent | thank you eglynn-office you've just proven the point I was trying to make above about the relevance of telemetry to people who runs clouds | 13:34 |
| cdent | (not that you need convincing) | 13:35 |
| eglynn-office | ... meh, batching is not gonna work as it would have to wait for the next API non-gnocchi call from the same user | 13:35 |
| eglynn-office | what if the swift middleware ignores the metering-related API calls to avoid the circularity | 13:41 |
| eglynn-office | ... BUT the gnocchi storage driver itself writes samples directly to reflect it's own swift usage? | 13:41 |
| eglynn-office | ... it's own swift usage would be a measure of bytes written for the last swiftclient call *plus* the current "directly written" sample | 13:42 |
| eglynn-office | ickkk, it must be Friday | 13:42 |
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| sileht | jd__, ahahh "NoDeloreanAvailable" | 13:54 |
| jd__ | haha | 13:55 |
| jd__ | what did you do? | 13:55 |
| jd__ | or maybe you just read it and didn't have it raised ;) | 13:55 |
| sileht | jd__, It have been raised | 13:56 |
| jd__ | hehe | 13:56 |
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| jd__ | I'm pleased to read that | 13:56 |
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| sileht | jd__, I have just stop the collector, and restart it latter, so the old sample stuck in queue was obsolete, that is normal | 13:57 |
| openstackgerrit | Igor Degtiarov proposed a change to openstack/ceilometer: Adds pylint check for critical error in new patches https://review.openstack.org/125906 | 13:58 |
| * cdent ccrouch I need a couple minutes to finish up an email | 13:58 | |
| cdent | whoops that's a msg not a me! | 13:58 |
| cdent | ccrouch ^ | 13:58 |
| jd__ | sileht: cool, my code works than | 13:58 |
| jd__ | 88 MILES PER HOUR!! | 13:58 |
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| openstackgerrit | gordon chung proposed a change to openstack/ceilometer: move hbase event driver to event tree https://review.openstack.org/125728 | 14:10 |
| openstackgerrit | gordon chung proposed a change to openstack/ceilometer: move sql event driver to event tree https://review.openstack.org/125750 | 14:11 |
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| openstackgerrit | gordon chung proposed a change to openstack/ceilometer: move db2 and mongo driver to event tree https://review.openstack.org/125758 | 14:18 |
| openstackgerrit | gordon chung proposed a change to openstack/ceilometer: clean capabilities https://review.openstack.org/125771 | 14:19 |
| gordc | errr... i guess i should write up a spec for event db split since it's already being merged. | 14:20 |
| eglynn-office | gordc: yeah, we might as well get credit for one kilo BP already landed :) | 14:22 |
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| gordc | eglynn-office: ok, i'll type something up. i think we need to land: https://review.openstack.org/#/c/121950/ | 14:23 |
| gordc | or something similar to allow kilo specs | 14:23 |
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| gordc | eglynn-office: thanks. | 14:24 |
| openstackgerrit | Mehdi Abaakouk proposed a change to stackforge/gnocchi: Add a gnocchi dispatcher https://review.openstack.org/98798 | 14:27 |
| openstackgerrit | A change was merged to openstack/ceilometer-specs: Enable Kilo specs https://review.openstack.org/121950 | 14:27 |
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| openstackgerrit | Mehdi Abaakouk proposed a change to stackforge/gnocchi: Don't raise 500 on carbonara NoDeloreanAvailable. https://review.openstack.org/125983 | 14:30 |
| openstackgerrit | Igor Degtiarov proposed a change to openstack/ceilometer: Implement redesigned separator in names of columns in HBase https://review.openstack.org/106376 | 14:33 |
| openstackgerrit | Igor Degtiarov proposed a change to openstack/ceilometer: [HBase] Add migration script for new row separate design https://review.openstack.org/115615 | 14:33 |
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| openstackgerrit | Mehdi Abaakouk proposed a change to stackforge/gnocchi: Don't raise 500 on carbonara NoDeloreanAvailable. https://review.openstack.org/125983 | 14:34 |
| openstackgerrit | Mehdi Abaakouk proposed a change to stackforge/gnocchi: Add a gnocchi dispatcher https://review.openstack.org/98798 | 14:34 |
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| eglynn-office | cdent: "big infra" :) ... did you mean that in the vein of "big tobacco" or "big pharma"? | 14:40 |
| cdent | Well we all have a tendency to rely on zuul and co to tell us when things are bad. | 14:41 |
| cdent | zuul should confirm what we already know | 14:41 |
| cdent | not find problems | 14:41 |
| cdent | but sure, given the way we are addicted to it, big tobacco or pharma works ;) | 14:42 |
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| cdent | bureaucrats and centralizers all over the place | 14:56 |
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| amalagon_ | hi jd__ , sileht : did either of you encounter an error associated with importutils in rest/app.py of gnocchi? I'm not able to get gnocchi-api working after rebasing to include the middleware changes: http://paste.openstack.org/show/117836/ | 15:01 |
| sileht | amalagon_, nop | 15:03 |
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| amalagon | sileht: darn; hm. I don't know if this is related, but I get the feeling I should be modifying my gnocchi.conf file to allow for keystone authentication - do you know what I should add? I keep seeing different versions of the auth_url and am not sure what to put | 15:04 |
| jd__ | amalagon: you probably need to upgrade oslo.utils | 15:05 |
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| amalagon | jd__: ah, ok thanks, I'll try that | 15:09 |
| amalagon | jd__: \o/ | 15:11 |
| jd__ | I need to add a version check on oslo.utils | 15:12 |
| openstackgerrit | Julien Danjou proposed a change to stackforge/gnocchi: Set a minimal version for oslo.utils https://review.openstack.org/125992 | 15:14 |
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| amalagon | jsuper fast :) | 15:22 |
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| openstackgerrit | gordon chung proposed a change to openstack/ceilometer-specs: dedicated event database https://review.openstack.org/125994 | 15:25 |
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| amalagon | jd__: can I ask you about the keystone configuration for gnocchi? I'm following the steps here http://docs.openstack.org/trunk/install-guide/install/apt/content/neutron-install.dedicated-network-node.html but not sure if I also need an api-paste.ini file… | 15:26 |
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| jd__ | amalagon: for neutron? | 15:31 |
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| jd__ | amalagon: or is it the wrong page? :) | 15:32 |
| amalagon | jd__: ah, disregard that; I was going overboard - I was following the steps for configuring keystone with neutron assuming they would be the same for gnocchi, but I'm guessing I don't need all that and just need to supply an auth_token in my requests | 15:33 |
| jd__ | amalagon: yup | 15:33 |
| jd__ | amalagon: you may also need to configure the keystone_authtoken section of gnocchi.conf to indicate where Keystone is if the default value are not correct | 15:34 |
| jd__ | amalagon: you can also set middlewares= in gnocchi.conf to disable the keystone auth | 15:34 |
| amalagon | jd__: that is great to hear!! ok, will do that (disable the auth) | 15:35 |
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| openstackgerrit | gordon chung proposed a change to openstack/ceilometer-specs: dedicated event database https://review.openstack.org/125994 | 15:39 |
| idegtiarov | gordc: your new patch is not redless ones more | 15:42 |
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| openstackgerrit | gordon chung proposed a change to openstack/ceilometer-specs: dedicated event database https://review.openstack.org/125994 | 15:45 |
| gordc | idegtiarov: one more try | 15:45 |
| idegtiarov | gordc: hope now it will be ok! :) | 15:45 |
| EmilienM | is ceilometer agent compute always connected to AMQP? | 15:46 |
| EmilienM | gordc: ^ | 15:46 |
| gordc | idegtiarov: same. thanks for looking at it. | 15:46 |
| gordc | EmilienM: it depends on what publisher you choose | 15:46 |
| EmilienM | gordc: ok, could you give me examples? | 15:46 |
| gordc | by default it's notifier publisher so yes, it's connected to AMQP. | 15:46 |
| idegtiarov | gordc: you are welcome! | 15:47 |
| EmilienM | gordc: ok, so the socket is always open, right? | 15:47 |
| gordc | EmilienM: that i don't know. i'd have to dig into oslo.messaging... or sileht might be able to tell you. | 15:48 |
| openstackgerrit | A change was merged to stackforge/gnocchi: Set a minimal version for oslo.utils https://review.openstack.org/125992 | 15:49 |
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| gordc | EmilienM: http://docs.openstack.org/developer/ceilometer/configuration.html#publishers | 15:49 |
| EmilienM | gordc: thanks a lot :) | 15:51 |
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| openstackgerrit | A change was merged to openstack/python-ceilometerclient: sync oslo code https://review.openstack.org/118762 | 16:19 |
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| nealph_afk | EmilienM: FWIW, you might look into the Kombu connection broker, which is what Ceilometer uses (for RabbitMQ connections anyways). | 16:46 |
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| nealph | EmilieM: and I'll briefly not (also on RabbitMQ) that there are multiple channels stacked into one TCP connection, so "is Ceilometer connection always open" might be a different question than "is the AMQP connection always open". :) | 16:48 |
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| nealph | s/not/note | 16:48 |
| cdent | we collided a bit eglynn_ | 16:52 |
| cdent | you were a good deal more factual | 16:53 |
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| jd__ | sileht: tooz 0.5 is on its way so the IPC issue should be done with that new version | 17:11 |
| * cdent waves | 17:12 | |
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| EmilienM | nealph: thanks, it's exactly what I was looking for | 17:27 |
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| openstackgerrit | A change was merged to openstack/ceilometer: Updated from global requirements https://review.openstack.org/124874 | 19:16 |
| openstackgerrit | A change was merged to openstack/ceilometer: Imported Translations from Transifex https://review.openstack.org/124289 | 19:17 |
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| jd__ | eglynn-office: can I lol at #1376915? | 19:55 |
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| jd__ | eglynn-office: I'd set it to "Invalid" but I let you decide… | 19:56 |
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| openstackgerrit | Ana Malagon proposed a change to stackforge/gnocchi: Extension for moving aggregation in API layer https://review.openstack.org/104415 | 22:05 |
| openstackgerrit | Ana Malagon proposed a change to stackforge/gnocchi: Add support for selectable granularity https://review.openstack.org/103435 | 22:05 |
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| openstackgerrit | Ana Malagon proposed a change to stackforge/gnocchi: Extension for moving aggregation in API layer https://review.openstack.org/104415 | 22:19 |
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| openstackgerrit | Ana Malagon proposed a change to stackforge/gnocchi: Extension for moving aggregation in API layer https://review.openstack.org/104415 | 22:57 |
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| openstackgerrit | A change was merged to openstack/ceilometer: create skeleton files for event storage backends https://review.openstack.org/125721 | 23:48 |
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