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| devananda | [A | 21:48 |
|---|---|---|
| devananda | [A | 21:48 |
| etoews | elmiko: i saw the ping in the x-project meeting | 21:48 |
| devananda | oops, ww. also - hi :) | 21:48 |
| elmiko | hey, wb etoews =) | 21:48 |
| etoews | i'm around for the next 10 min. before leaving on vacation...again. | 21:49 |
| devananda | wanted to raise a question for folks here re: PATCH implementations across projects | 21:49 |
| devananda | some follow the RFC (https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc6902) and some do not | 21:49 |
| elmiko | etoews: remove the -2 on https://review.openstack.org/#/c/183698/ | 21:49 |
| elmiko | devananda: sure thing, go for it =) | 21:49 |
| etoews | elmiko: done deal | 21:49 |
| elmiko | etoews: thanks, and i've got some ideas to discuss when you are back and in the swing ;) | 21:50 |
| etoews | my apologies for not having the time at catch up | 21:50 |
| elmiko | no worries, you gave ample warning | 21:50 |
| devananda | elmiko: what's the best way to raise that discussion / awareness of it, without me writing a formal spec that I'm (honestly) likely to drop the ball on? | 21:51 |
| elmiko | devananda: so, that's a serious issue of debate methinks | 21:51 |
| devananda | oh? | 21:51 |
| elmiko | i actually have brought this up before, how should PATCH be applied | 21:51 |
| elmiko | and i don't think we have a consensus | 21:52 |
| elmiko | there is a strong opinion that PATCH should be able to accept partial resource updates, for example | 21:52 |
| elmiko | ryansb, miguelgrinberg ^^ | 21:52 |
| devananda | sure - which the RFC supports | 21:52 |
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| devananda | i mean, partial resource updates is the whole point of PATCH, and what makes it different than PUT | 21:52 |
| elmiko | and then there is the notion of the JSON-patch | 21:52 |
| elmiko | agreed | 21:52 |
| devananda | the question is what format the BODY is | 21:52 |
| elmiko | exactly ;) | 21:52 |
| elmiko | i don't think we have an agreement on that | 21:53 |
| devananda | yea -- and a JSON API should take a JSON BODY document for all requests -- not just PUT, POST -- imo :) | 21:53 |
| ryansb | the strong opinion was, I recall, "if you don't need lists/sets, then a partial PUT body should be ok" | 21:53 |
| elmiko | yea, that makes a certain amount of sense | 21:53 |
| ryansb | "if you need lists/sets/etc, then JSON patch format is nice | 21:53 |
| devananda | if some service presents a non-JSON API, then sure, it can do a non-JSON PATCH too, right? | 21:53 |
| elmiko | makes sense | 21:54 |
| devananda | ryansb: simpler is good on one hand, but inconsistency is bad, too. if a service expects JSON for only some HTTP methods, that seems less than ideal to me | 21:54 |
| elmiko | for me, the real question is, does an API only accept the JSON-patch notation, or can it also just accept partial resource formats | 21:54 |
| elmiko | that seemed to be a point of discussion for us | 21:55 |
| devananda | elmiko: afaik, right now, keystone accepts only partial resource, and ironic accepts only JSON-patch. | 21:55 |
| devananda | for example | 21:55 |
| devananda | I haven't looked at other services yet | 21:55 |
| elmiko | interesting | 21:55 |
| ryansb | elmiko: good question. My opinion is that you should stick with one for the whole API | 21:55 |
| ryansb | so if your service just doesn't have lists, then partial actually should be fine | 21:55 |
| elmiko | ryansb: agreed, but maybe we should talk about that in the guidance | 21:55 |
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| elmiko | devananda: sahara is moving down the partial resource path as well | 21:56 |
| devananda | elmiko: :-/ | 21:56 |
| elmiko | yea... | 21:56 |
| elmiko | i tend to agree with ryansb though, it should at least be consistent across a project. ie don't accept both | 21:57 |
| elmiko | each project might have different needs | 21:57 |
| devananda | definitely agree on that | 21:57 |
| elmiko | oh, also barbican is experimenting with partial resource patch mechanics as well | 21:57 |
| devananda | also, why would any project not support lists? | 21:58 |
| elmiko | i think the JSON-patch stuff just seems really intimidating at first glance | 21:58 |
| devananda | elmiko: heh, yea, well, it's not trivial... but it is much clearer what the user is changing | 21:58 |
| elmiko | agreed | 21:58 |
| devananda | there's no way to unset (null'ify) a partial resource without it | 21:58 |
| devananda | for example | 21:58 |
| elmiko | good point | 21:59 |
| devananda | the only alternative we found would have been to allow PUT of sub-resources | 21:59 |
| elmiko | and i think ryansb meant support for updating lists, is that accurate? | 21:59 |
| devananda | which we agreed would only be more compicated | 21:59 |
| elmiko | yea, that's a really good point to bring up when talking about this. it might be a corner case for some, but still worth talking about. | 22:00 |
| ryansb | elmiko: yeah, among other things | 22:00 |
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| ryansb | also lets you do idempotent delete operations, which is nice | 22:00 |
| elmiko | devananda: i think the best advice we can give on the PATCH stuff will center around keeping consistent within the project api, and knowing about the corner cases. | 22:01 |
| elmiko | we should definitely be mentioning both partial resource and json-patch though | 22:01 |
| devananda | elmiko: is there an RFC for how to implement partial resource PATCH ? | 22:01 |
| elmiko | like an ietf rfc, not sure | 22:02 |
| elmiko | sigmavirus24 is the resident rfc wizard... ^^ | 22:02 |
| ryansb | elmiko: devananda I believe the answer is no | 22:02 |
| sigmavirus24 | == ryansb | 22:02 |
| ryansb | the RFC's don't say anything about a partial resource format | 22:03 |
| devananda | I couldn't find one when I had searched (neither did any other ironic API dev) | 22:03 |
| sigmavirus24 | One isn't coming to mind immediately | 22:03 |
| ryansb | they just don't say "you can't" | 22:03 |
| devananda | which is another reason we didn't go that route :) | 22:03 |
| ryansb | or "you SHOULD NOT" | 22:03 |
| * ryansb asked sigmavirus24 the same question some time ago | 22:03 | |
| devananda | yea, but there is no guidance on how to do it | 22:03 |
| elmiko | devananda: i think going with 6902 is the sensible approach | 22:03 |
| elmiko | but, the dark side is easier, quicker, .... | 22:04 |
| elmiko | ;) | 22:04 |
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| ryansb | begun, the PATCH wars have | 22:04 |
| miguelgrinberg | so I try to avoid PATCH as much as I can for these reasons. I think it only makes sense for resources that have a large representation, where sending the whole thing back and forth consumes excessive bandwidth | 22:06 |
| sigmavirus24 | Let's just not use PATCH | 22:06 |
| sigmavirus24 | =P | 22:06 |
| miguelgrinberg | sigmavirus24: there you go. we agree! | 22:07 |
| sigmavirus24 | miguelgrinberg: we always agree, we just never know it | 22:07 |
| elmiko | ryansb: lol | 22:07 |
| elmiko | this definitely should be a topic for a wider discussion, maybe we should bring it up on the ML? | 22:08 |
| ryansb | yes, let's | 22:09 |
| miguelgrinberg | elmiko: did we ever do a review of how all the projects use it? | 22:09 |
| ryansb | there's certainly plenty of ground to cover | 22:09 |
| elmiko | miguelgrinberg: not formally, but informally we already have a few different approaches | 22:09 |
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| elmiko | keystone, sahara, barbican, are using partial resource, ironic is using 6902 | 22:09 |
| miguelgrinberg | is it just the partial resources and the json-patch approaches? | 22:10 |
| elmiko | i believe so | 22:10 |
| elmiko | but i'm probably wrong | 22:10 |
| miguelgrinberg | it would be interesting to know if any project use the sub-resource approach instead of patch | 22:10 |
| elmiko | ryansb: i'll write an email tomorrow, unless someone beats me to it | 22:11 |
| elmiko | miguelgrinberg: yea, maybe we can do a little review of this during the discussion | 22:11 |
| ryansb | ok. I'm heading off on vacation tomorrow, so I'll read it when I get back | 22:11 |
| elmiko | haha, nice. enjoy ryansb ! | 22:12 |
| elmiko | i need to head out for tonight, but we can pick this up on ML | 22:12 |
| ryansb | kk | 22:12 |
| elmiko | thanks again for bringing it up devananda | 22:12 |
| miguelgrinberg | sounds good | 22:12 |
| devananda | elmiko: yw - and thanks | 22:15 |
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