| opendevreview | Merged openstack/diskimage-builder master: Add element block-device-efi-lvm https://review.opendev.org/c/openstack/diskimage-builder/+/790192 | 01:08 |
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| opendevreview | Merged opendev/infra-manual master: Switch docs from referencing Freenode to OFTC https://review.opendev.org/c/opendev/infra-manual/+/797531 | 06:31 |
| *** rpittau|afk is now known as rpittau | 06:59 | |
| frickler | fungi: ^^ added a comment about a possible follow-up here, but considered it more important to get this finally merged now | 07:01 |
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| mnaser | two hours ago we hit change #800000 https://review.opendev.org/c/x/pyghmi/+/800000 :) | 12:17 |
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| fungi | frickler: thanks for the idea! i'll put something together | 12:37 |
| fungi | mnaser: i guess we need to declare today an opendev holiday of sorts | 12:37 |
| * fungi puts on his party hat | 12:38 | |
| *** rpittau is now known as rpittau|afk | 12:45 | |
| opendevreview | Jeremy Stanley proposed opendev/infra-manual master: Re-add suggestion to register IRC nicks https://review.opendev.org/c/opendev/infra-manual/+/800032 | 12:56 |
| *** amoralej|lunch is now known as amoralej | 13:03 | |
| opendevreview | Jeremy Stanley proposed opendev/infra-manual master: Re-add suggestion to register IRC nicks https://review.opendev.org/c/opendev/infra-manual/+/800032 | 13:38 |
| *** ykarel_ is now known as ykarel|away | 14:18 | |
| clarkb | nick registration change lgtm | 14:55 |
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| ricolin | clarkb, fungi the build for ebian-bullseye-arm64 seems completed on nb03.opendev.org is that help on currently stuck jobs in check-arm64? https://zuul.openstack.org/status ? | 15:17 |
| ricolin | s/ebian-bullseye-arm64/debian-bullseye-arm64/ | 15:17 |
| fungi | ricolin: i have a feeling those images are failing to boot, we'll have to check the nodepool-launcher logs for them | 15:19 |
| clarkb | though failing boots should result in NODE_FAILURE | 15:19 |
| clarkb | could be iterating really slowly through the retries though | 15:19 |
| clarkb | linaro and osuosl both show instances in use generally though so likely something specific to that image like boot failures | 15:20 |
| clarkb | I'm following the TC meeting because we'll be discussing the ELK stuff in a bit but I'll see if the logs show anything obviously wrong | 15:21 |
| fungi | same | 15:22 |
| clarkb | there are 18-19 hour old bullseye arm64 images in linaro and osuosl | 15:23 |
| fungi | yeah, i just watched node debian-bullseye-arm64-linaro-us-regionone-0025448707 boot and go ready | 15:24 |
| fungi | i wonder if we have a bunch of stale node request locks again | 15:25 |
| clarkb | there is one in use right now | 15:25 |
| clarkb | but that is the only current arm64 bullseye image I see (that should rule out consistent boot failues though) | 15:25 |
| fungi | i'm going to pick one of the older ones and see if i can find evidence the node request is being held indefinitely by the launcher after it should have been released, but am expecting that's what i'm going to find, in which case we can remedy it with a launcher restart to free all the stale node request locks | 15:30 |
| clarkb | sounds good | 15:30 |
| corvus | some thoughts on matrix from our friends in the ansible community: https://ansible.github.io/community/posts/matrix_and_ansible.html | 15:34 |
| mordred | ++ | 15:34 |
| mordred | it's a good read - I highly recommend it | 15:35 |
| *** ysandeep is now known as ysandeep|away | 15:44 | |
| fungi | so the vast majority of the builds with queued debian-bullseye-arm64 requests are from 5.5 days ago, corresponding to the time of the last scheduler restart... for a clearer picture i'm going to pick one which isn't quite that old, 799348,2 (126.5hr instead of 134.5hr) | 15:58 |
| fungi | the kolla-build-debian-source-aarch64 node request for that patchset-uploaded event was 300-0014659571 (logged by the scheduler 2021-07-03 09:24:14,161) | 16:07 |
| *** marios is now known as marios|out | 16:07 | |
| fungi | that node request is still outstanding as of a few minutes ago, from the scheduler's perspective: | 16:08 |
| fungi | 2021-07-08 15:58:32,707 DEBUG zuul.nodepool: [e: 4271459da6414a8c8e6fd0d269de61f0] Resubmitting lost node request <NodeRequest 300-0014659571 <NodeSet kolla-debian-bullseye-aarch64 [<Node None ('primary',):debian-bullseye-arm64>]>> | 16:08 |
| fungi | looks like nl03 declined 300-0014659571 after failure to boot in osuosl-regionone when it raised Exception: Unable to find flavor with min ram: 8000 | 16:12 |
| fungi | but never unlocked the node request, so node_failure was not returned | 16:13 |
| fungi | since that's confirmed, i'm willing to wager the remainder are in similar situations, so restarting the launcher to free any node requests it may still be sitting on locks for | 16:13 |
| fungi | unless anyone wants the process preserved in this condition for further investigation (would a thread dump be at all useful in this case?) | 16:14 |
| corvus | fungi: i'm not planning to debug that right now, but a thread dump is easy so may as well? | 16:15 |
| corvus | fungi: if you want to restart all the launchers, that would be convenient | 16:16 |
| corvus | (we'd be prepared for the upcoming zuul change which requires that) | 16:16 |
| fungi | sure, i'll trigger a thread dump, and then happy to restart all 4 launchers | 16:16 |
| *** jpena is now known as jpena|off | 16:22 | |
| fungi | corvus: the thread dumps don't look very helpful anyway: http://paste.openstack.org/show/807282 | 16:29 |
| fungi | oh, nevermind | 16:30 |
| fungi | i shouldn't have only grepped for loglines with timestamps | 16:30 |
| clarkb | do we need to do pairs of thread dumps on odepool due to yappi? | 16:32 |
| fungi | yeah, i did | 16:32 |
| clarkb | I know that has a big impact on the zuul side but I'm not sure if we have yappi installed on the nodepool launchers | 16:32 |
| clarkb | ah yup your paste shows the starting and stopping of yappi | 16:32 |
| fungi | okay, proper thread dumps are now in nl03.opendev.org:~fungi/threaddumps.2021-07-08 | 16:33 |
| fungi | that should include everything | 16:33 |
| fungi | i'll get to work restarting all the launchers | 16:33 |
| clarkb | I need to find some breakfast but then I'm going to dive into zuul reviews. Then I need to pick up the gerrit account classification work for the accounts that are left. Then hoping on Friday to look at the EMS setup | 16:36 |
| clarkb | I guess Friday is tomorrow now | 16:36 |
| clarkb | we haven't seen any complaints over the previously disabled gerrit accounts have we? | 16:36 |
| fungi | #status log All nodepool launchers restarted on "latest" docker image (built from change corresponding to the nodepool 4.2.0 release) | 16:40 |
| opendevstatus | fungi: finished logging | 16:40 |
| fungi | clarkb: i haven't, no | 16:40 |
| *** amoralej is now known as amoralej|off | 16:41 | |
| fungi | so anyway, there's at least no stuck nodelauncher thread for that node request, assuming the numbers at the end of the nodelauncher thread name are expected to correspond with the numbers at the end of the node request itself | 16:47 |
| fungi | and if they're not supposed to correspond, i don't see any other way of trying to match them up | 16:47 |
| fungi | looks like those stuck queued builds ended up returning node_failure results after the nl03 restart | 16:52 |
| clarkb | looks like a kolla change is running some debian arm64 jobs now at least | 17:06 |
| clarkb | not sure if those are bullseye though | 17:06 |
| fungi | well, builds were running before too | 17:07 |
| clarkb | but not for debian | 17:07 |
| fungi | it was just that there were also some stuck node requests, looked like | 17:07 |
| clarkb | ya so debian may have been coincidence | 17:07 |
| fungi | well, whatever causes these requests to get held onto seems to happen a lot more when there are launch failures of some kind, so it's possible there were specifically problems launching debian nodes for a while there which resulted in the majority of the stuck requests being for debian | 17:09 |
| clarkb | ag | 17:09 |
| clarkb | er ah | 17:09 |
| fungi | though the specific one i dig into was rejected for osuosl because the min ram we specified didn't seem to correspond to any available flavors. that was a bit weird | 17:10 |
| fungi | er, dug into | 17:10 |
| clarkb | fungi: I think some of the arm jobs run on xxlarge flavors in linaro | 17:11 |
| clarkb | that those would be rejected by osuosl | 17:11 |
| fungi | "Unable to find flavor with min ram: 8000" | 17:12 |
| fungi | that doesn't look particularly large | 17:12 |
| fungi | we're still logging that, roughly once an hour | 17:12 |
| fungi | i wonder if some of the flavor list calls are erroring | 17:12 |
| clarkb | fungi: ya the xxlarge is 16GB ram iirc | 17:15 |
| clarkb | 8000MB should be fine | 17:15 |
| fungi | right, i think i see the problem in the config | 17:16 |
| fungi | looks like we specify a flavor name for every label, and the min-ram only takes effect if the specified flavor is unabailable | 17:16 |
| fungi | in osuosl we specify opendev.large on all our labels, except debian-bullseye-arm64 which is set to use a flavor name of os.large instead, which i bet doesn't exist | 17:17 |
| fungi | looks like a copy-paste from a different provider which actually has that flavor name | 17:18 |
| clarkb | ah | 17:18 |
| opendevreview | Jeremy Stanley proposed openstack/project-config master: Correct flavor-name for bullseye nodes in osuosl https://review.opendev.org/c/openstack/project-config/+/800090 | 17:21 |
| fungi | clarkb: ^ | 17:21 |
| clarkb | +A | 17:21 |
| clarkb | once gerrit accepts my vote anyway | 17:22 |
| fungi | it's being testy today | 17:24 |
| opendevreview | Merged openstack/project-config master: Correct flavor-name for bullseye nodes in osuosl https://review.opendev.org/c/openstack/project-config/+/800090 | 17:50 |
| clarkb | fungi: when linaro was down those bullseye nodes would only be able to launch in osuosl, then we had the problem with the flavor. That would explain backing up the queues. I wonder if that behavior makes the locks problematic | 17:51 |
| fungi | yeah, that's the sort of scenario | 18:10 |
| fungi | we see it a lot with the airship-special node types when there's a problem in citycloud and rather than reporting node_failure some of them just get their node requests held indefinitely | 18:11 |
| opendevreview | Merged openstack/project-config master: update channel config with new registered nic https://review.opendev.org/c/openstack/project-config/+/799855 | 19:51 |
| clarkb | mordred: for setting up EMS things should I use infra-root@oepnstack.org or will it allow us to have a number of admin accoutns and we can use personal email? Probably a good idea to use infra-root@ anyway but thought I'd ask | 20:05 |
| opendevreview | Merged opendev/infra-manual master: Re-add suggestion to register IRC nicks https://review.opendev.org/c/opendev/infra-manual/+/800032 | 20:10 |
| mordred | clarkb: it allows us to have a number of admin accounts | 20:20 |
| mordred | well - hang on - let me re-state | 20:21 |
| mordred | the EMS control panel has a single login - use infra-root@ for that | 20:21 |
| mordred | then - that control panel lets us define the other admin accounts for the actual matrix service | 20:21 |
| clarkb | mordred: cool that was the distinction I wanted to know about | 20:23 |
| mordred | clarkb: be sure: "Advanced Options: Custom DNS: On" | 20:25 |
| mordred | everything else is super easy (that's also super easy - but I messed it up once so I'm mentioning) | 20:25 |
| corvus | even messing up is super easy! | 20:33 |
| *** mgoddard- is now known as mgoddard | 20:50 | |
| opendevreview | melanie witt proposed openstack/project-config master: Update ceph grafana for the current jobs https://review.opendev.org/c/openstack/project-config/+/800116 | 21:16 |
| *** dviroel is now known as dviroel|out | 21:44 | |
| mordred | corvus, clarkb: do we happen to know - in the gitea image, if we put a random file in custom/public - it should get served by gitea, yeah? | 22:23 |
| clarkb | mordred: yes I blieve so. And if not we have apache there now too and can easily serve it from apache | 22:24 |
| mordred | should we do that instead? | 22:24 |
| mordred | I was going to write you a patch for the well-known files real quick | 22:24 |
| clarkb | I'm not sure I have a preference. apache is largely there to filter dos stuff currently | 22:26 |
| clarkb | But could easily serve a file | 22:26 |
| clarkb | on the other hand our docker images aren't really reconsumable so no big deal to make them more specific | 22:26 |
| fungi | which well-known files? | 22:26 |
| mordred | let's try the docker imge for now - it's the easiest | 22:26 |
| mordred | we can always make it harder later | 22:26 |
| clarkb | fungi: for matrix to find the matrix server once it exists | 22:26 |
| fungi | oh, it expects a webserver in the parent domain? | 22:27 |
| opendevreview | Monty Taylor proposed opendev/system-config master: Add matrix well-known files for opendev https://review.opendev.org/c/opendev/system-config/+/800120 | 22:27 |
| corvus | fungi: eg: https://acmegating.com/.well-known/matrix/server | 22:27 |
| corvus | or what mordred just pushed :) | 22:27 |
| mordred | I'm assuming that's the name clarkb is going to pick for our host fwiw :) | 22:28 |
| mordred | clarkb: so - you know - pick that name - or else I'll have to UPDATE my patch *yikes* | 22:28 |
| fungi | is that to be able to make the accounts be somebody@opendev.org instead of somebody@matrix.opendev.org? | 22:28 |
| mordred | fungi: more for the channels | 22:28 |
| corvus | but yes, that too for the bots | 22:29 |
| fungi | ahh, okay, but same | 22:29 |
| mordred | ah - yes - also for bots | 22:29 |
| mordred | so they'll be @awesomebot:opendev.org | 22:29 |
| fungi | and this is as an alternative to using something like srv rrs in dns i guess | 22:29 |
| corvus | and probably instead of 'opendev.ems.host' instead of instead of 'matrix.opendev.org' | 22:29 |
| mordred | yah | 22:30 |
| corvus | fungi: yes, there is a dns way, but it gets messy with certs | 22:30 |
| mordred | there's a dns option too | 22:30 |
| mordred | yup | 22:30 |
| mordred | since we do have a webserver we can deploy too - it's fairly simple | 22:30 |
| fungi | thanks, makes sense | 22:30 |
| mordred | clarkb: it's basically going to look like going through half of the setup page at element, then coming and landing the well-known files and a dns cname change, then finishing | 22:31 |
| mordred | actually - I don't know if we want to do the cname ... what do you think corvus ? | 22:31 |
| mordred | I don't think we actually need to have a matrix.opendev.org since nobody is going to be logging in to it | 22:32 |
| clarkb | admins might? | 22:32 |
| clarkb | but ya I think we can just use the actual name | 22:32 |
| mordred | yeah - but admins can just log in to opendev.ems.host | 22:32 |
| fungi | admins can also just... yeah | 22:32 |
| mordred | yeah - no need to brand things for us | 22:32 |
| clarkb | what sort of caching is involved in the advertising of that info? just wondering if it is safe to land that nowish and then update later if things change | 22:33 |
| clarkb | also might do the wrong thing until the server exists (like someone could squat it?) | 22:33 |
| fungi | they could also squat it now | 22:34 |
| fungi | even without that change | 22:34 |
| mordred | yeah. and then we could just change it if they did | 22:34 |
| mordred | and they'd be silly | 22:34 |
| clarkb | right its fine to be squatted now if we don't add well known files pointing at them | 22:34 |
| clarkb | then when we make the server we can ensure the well known file matches | 22:34 |
| clarkb | basically I think I'm saying lets not merge that until the server exists | 22:34 |
| mordred | yah | 22:34 |
| fungi | wfm | 22:35 |
| mordred | well - we COULD update that to be an invalid target just so we could verify adding teh files like that works | 22:35 |
| mordred | like - point it to matrix.example.org | 22:35 |
| mordred | then update it when clark does the form thing | 22:36 |
| clarkb | I would do matrix.opendev.org as we control that domain | 22:36 |
| clarkb | but ya then we can confirm that gitea serves the files as expected | 22:36 |
| mordred | example.org is a purposefully invalid tld | 22:36 |
| clarkb | but could theoretically be shadow dns'd in $organizations | 22:37 |
| mordred | jeez | 22:37 |
| clarkb | I want to say google did something like that then when all these new tlds opened up stuff broke for them | 22:37 |
| mordred | hahaha | 22:37 |
| opendevreview | Monty Taylor proposed opendev/system-config master: Add matrix well-known files for opendev https://review.opendev.org/c/opendev/system-config/+/800120 | 22:38 |
| mordred | clarkb: good idea re: matrix.opendev.org | 22:38 |
| rm_work | ooo matrix-talk :D when do I get to connect up? :P | 23:14 |
| clarkb | unsure at this point. I am planning on poking at a server setup tomorrow | 23:14 |
| clarkb | rm_work: that said many people here are already connected via matrix | 23:15 |
| clarkb | so you could go that route if you want an early jump | 23:15 |
| rm_work | ah, yeah I have run a homeserver for years, with our own stuff, just curious when things will be more official :D | 23:15 |
| rm_work | just IRC-bridging then? | 23:15 |
| mordred | rm_work: zuul is working on moving to matrix native | 23:17 |
| rm_work | neat | 23:17 |
| clarkb | rm_work: well irc briding is already a thing thanks to matrix.org | 23:17 |
| mordred | rm_work: corvus and I are both here via matrix bridging | 23:18 |
| clarkb | but ya zuul specifically is wanting to be matrix native. I have no idea what it may look like for other projects at this point | 23:18 |
| rm_work | yeah, right | 23:18 |
| rm_work | is there a doc/etherpad somewhere about this so I can sate my curiosity without asking you a bunch of questions you've answered 10+ times? :D | 23:18 |
| mordred | rm_work: in fact, if you go to the zuul community page: https://zuul-ci.org/community.html - you'll note that the link to the #zuul channel is actually a matrix link :) | 23:18 |
| mordred | rm_work: yah - link coming | 23:18 |
| mordred | rm_work: https://review.opendev.org/c/opendev/infra-specs/+/796156 | 23:19 |
| rm_work | just doing my weekly drive-by scan to see what ya'll are up to and got intrigued since i love Matrix :) | 23:19 |
| clarkb | mordred: I'm finally catching up on the ansible doc and I'll be honest it feels super preachy and I think we need to avoid that in our transition | 23:19 |
| mordred | clarkb: I agree - it's not the right tone for us | 23:20 |
| clarkb | "it was the right choice a decade ago; it is not today" <- statements like that claerly indicate where the author's biases come from even if that may or may not be true | 23:20 |
| clarkb | you can have a transition without telling people that like irc that they are old and should feel bad | 23:20 |
| mordred | yah - I think he goes on in that paragraph to say the real meat of that sentence | 23:20 |
| mordred | in a more useful way | 23:20 |
| clarkb | ya but the setup just kills it imo | 23:21 |
| mordred | rm_work: also: https://review.opendev.org/c/zuul/zuul/+/793669 and https://review.opendev.org/c/zuul/zuul/+/796153 | 23:21 |
| corvus | clarkb: oh yeah totally agree there | 23:21 |
| mordred | clarkb: yah. for me part of the big win is that you can have your cake and eat it too | 23:21 |
| mordred | without either eating or cake being "bad" | 23:22 |
| corvus | i love irc and think matrix is better in ... basically every way | 23:22 |
| corvus | what mordred said :) | 23:22 |
| mordred | corvus: ++ | 23:22 |
| corvus | mostly because i see it as a near complete superset of irc | 23:22 |
| rm_work | is there an easy way to join these channels via matrix if i already have all my matrix stuff set up, just like "join room #oftc.net:opendev" ? | 23:23 |
| clarkb | ya I mean I'm the odd person that will say the clients aren't nearly as good in their current state (though they aren't bad) | 23:23 |
| clarkb | I also think that emoji and photos and gifs more often degrade conversations than contribute to them (and an explicit embrace of those tools is likely to be painful for many users) | 23:23 |
| clarkb | but as far as federated chat goes matrix has a really neat setup | 23:24 |
| corvus | rmwork: for this room: /join #oftc_#opendev:matrix.org | 23:24 |
| corvus | grr | 23:24 |
| corvus | rmwork: for this room: /join #_oftc_#opendev:matrix.org | 23:24 |
| corvus | sorry, i'm having an underscore problem with this client :) | 23:24 |
| corvus | i will be fixing that this weekend | 23:24 |
| rm_you[m] | cool, thanks | 23:24 |
| mordred | rm_work: that same pattern works for any oftc channel | 23:24 |
| rm_you[m] | I see that rich-presence works, and that I get a neat [m] badge apparently lol | 23:25 |
| clarkb | nickserv and chanserv incantations are definitely painful though and matrix channel management (from what little I've seen so far) is much much nicer for users | 23:25 |
| mordred | rm_you: yah - all the matrix people get rich things ... like reactions and whatnot | 23:25 |
| corvus | rmyou, rmwork: you can change your irc nick by chatting with @oftc-irc:matrix.org | 23:26 |
| clarkb | (I called out the emoji and gif thing bceause its literally the first reason listed for switching on that ansible doc) | 23:26 |
| mordred | clarkb: I have to admit - I'm still not an emoji fan - but I *do* like being able to ++ a specific line of text and have it be an annotation | 23:27 |
| rm_you[m] | <mordred "clarkb: I have to admit - I'm st"> hmm, does this work | 23:27 |
| clarkb | mordred: I haven't run into that on matrix yet, does it indicate who annotated things? | 23:27 |
| rm_you[m] | oh, ok that's ... uhh | 23:27 |
| corvus | i want to make the weechat plugin take "++" and turt it into a reaction | 23:27 |
| mordred | clarkb: yup | 23:27 |
| clarkb | mordred: beacuse discord totally doesn't and it drives me nuts | 23:27 |
| mordred | clarkb: if you look at this chat in matrix you'll see two line annotations - one from me and one from rm_you | 23:28 |
| * corvus uploaded an image: (17KiB) < https://matrix.org/_matrix/media/r0/download/acmegating.com/fKgeSWicrfYBXZihcQinFscS/image.png > | 23:28 | |
| corvus | lik that | 23:28 |
| clarkb | I don't think I get history if joining afterwards? I didn't with zuul iirc | 23:29 |
| rm_you[m] | yeah no history | 23:29 |
| rm_you[m] | but that makes sense | 23:29 |
| mordred | if not- we should change that - I think it should be configurable | 23:29 |
| rm_you[m] | I wonder where my image uploads go... | 23:29 |
| corvus | we'll need admin access to change it | 23:29 |
| *** ChanServ sets mode: +o mordred | 23:29 | |
| rm_you[m] | yeah typically you can set in matrix whether new users get history, but I assume it may depend on which homeserver you're on -- for instance, when I connected, my homeserver didn't HAVE history -- not sure if it'd fetch it remotely? | 23:30 |
| corvus | rm_you: it can fetch it if the room allows | 23:30 |
| mordred | poop. not something we can set on the bridge channel with irc ops | 23:30 |
| mordred | we'd have to ask the oftc bridge admin to change it for us | 23:30 |
| clarkb | also if you click the join a channel button in element this channel doesn't show up | 23:31 |
| corvus | but the matrix-irc bridges don't allow it by default because that's not how irc works by default | 23:31 |
| clarkb | I swear it did for zuul though | 23:31 |
| corvus | clarkb: that's because we set the channel to be hidden | 23:31 |
| clarkb | so now I'm wondering why this channel is different | 23:31 |
| rm_you[m] | yeah this | 23:31 |
| * rm_you[m] uploaded an image: (191KiB) < https://matrix.org/_matrix/media/r0/download/sheeplauncher.net/VVXKzgpvZNpuDxcaqQSILKOF/image.png > | 23:31 | |
| corvus | no, it doesn't show up for both | 23:31 |
| clarkb | ah | 23:31 |
| clarkb | and we did that because the spamming | 23:31 |
| rm_work | hmm interesting, my image actually is served from matrix.org instead of from my own homeserver | 23:32 |
| *** ChanServ sets mode: -o mordred | 23:32 | |
| corvus | clarkb: yep, you may have just looked at zuul during the brief time it wasn't hidden | 23:32 |
| mordred | rm_work: I think that's because the room is hosted at matrix.org | 23:32 |
| mordred | the bridge room | 23:32 |
| clarkb | corvus: ok so is /join a valid element command in a random channel buffer? | 23:32 |
| rm_you[m] | yeah just kinda surprising, typically uploads go to my own I thought regardless | 23:32 |
| corvus | mordred: technically, the room is hosted on every homeserver with a user on it :) | 23:32 |
| rm_you[m] | <clarkb "corvus: ok so is /join a valid e"> I think so | 23:32 |
| mordred | corvus: good point | 23:32 |
| corvus | i got an acmegating.com link for rm_you 's image | 23:33 |
| clarkb | new client grump: no power user command console | 23:33 |
| rm_you[m] | eugh have to remember that "reply" functionality is shitty on the IRC side | 23:33 |
| clarkb | I don't want to accidentally send #zuul a message if I get the command wrong | 23:33 |
| mordred | clarkb: want me to invite you to the room? | 23:33 |
| corvus | clarkb: can you elaborate? i don't fully understand? | 23:33 |
| mordred | poo. that doesn't work either | 23:33 |
| rm_work | ah so ... IN MY CLIENT (element) I get a link from my homeserver, but on the IRC side it re-hosts it for the bridge, makes sense I guess | 23:34 |
| rm_work | so I guess it just gives a link from whatever homeserver is used | 23:34 |
| rm_work | never knew that :) TIL | 23:34 |
| clarkb | corvus: typically irc clients have a separate command buffer and if you screw something up no one ever hears because its a local buffer just for getting commands | 23:34 |
| mordred | rm_work: oh - yea - that makes total sense | 23:34 |
| clarkb | corvus: but in element I don't seem to have anything like that so doing an explicit /join requires I type that into an existing buffer which will get the message if you forget the / or otherwise do it wrong | 23:34 |
| * corvus uploaded an image: (19KiB) < https://matrix.org/_matrix/media/r0/download/acmegating.com/LDYvMHHLjPNnMvDTRCSwIcyn/image.png > | 23:34 | |
| corvus | clarkb: i typed "/notacommand" and got this: | 23:34 |
| corvus | oh yeah if you forget the / | 23:35 |
| Clark[m] | ya so the usual concern is if you drop the / or have a prefix space (or some other string) | 23:35 |
| Clark[m] | /notacommand | 23:35 |
| corvus | gotcha | 23:35 |
| Clark[m] | I've always found it good practice to have that separate buffer | 23:35 |
| corvus | Clark: you could set up a room for that -- that's what weechat and irssi really do anyway | 23:35 |
| rm_work | can Element have custom channel groupings? not seeing that (though I should go Google it I guess heh) | 23:35 |
| corvus | rm_work: try enabling "spaces" it's a beta feature | 23:36 |
| rm_work | ah kk | 23:36 |
| Clark[m] | corvus: you can but thats still a bit different because a remote server will always see the commands in that case | 23:36 |
| rm_work | yeah I see it, now my client looks like Slack lol | 23:36 |
| Clark[m] | its not the end of the world though | 23:36 |
| corvus | rm_work: you can make your own private spaces, but public spaces will also be a thing (which is great for communities) | 23:36 |
| rm_work | yeah, uhh do we just... have a public opendev/openstack space? | 23:36 |
| corvus | Clark: only your homeserver will see it, and if you're the only person in an end-to-end encrypted room, you're the only one who will see the content | 23:37 |
| rm_work | yeah, i can't be the only one with an encrypted chat with only myself XD | 23:37 |
| corvus | rm_work: you aren't :) | 23:37 |
| rm_work | (though I get warnings about chatting to myself a lot, I assume it thinks I am lonely or something lol) | 23:38 |
| clarkb | I guess that is the hack around that | 23:38 |
| mordred | I have a "general" room on my homeserver | 23:38 |
| mordred | it serves no purpose, since I';m the only user | 23:38 |
| mordred | I've startedusing it to leave myself notes | 23:38 |
| clarkb | still feels odd to not hae a command console if commands exist (though maybe they have hidden it away to keep unwary users from stumbling on it) | 23:38 |
| mordred | clarkb: I mean ... there is a REST API - you could do all of these things via that and then it's REALY a command console ;) | 23:39 |
| rm_you[m] | <rm_work "yeah, uhh do we just... have a p"> so, this? | 23:39 |
| mordred | rm_you: no, not at this time | 23:39 |
| rm_you[m] | k | 23:39 |
| rm_you[m] | seems like it would be valuable | 23:39 |
| mordred | that space woudl want to be hosted in the opendev homeserver | 23:40 |
| clarkb | it is still on my todo list to use the weechat plugin then I'm sure all these client concerns will become less of a concern | 23:40 |
| mordred | which does not yet exist | 23:40 |
| rm_work | makes sense | 23:40 |
| corvus | clarkb: though underscores will be a concern :) | 23:40 |
| mordred | but also - so far only zuul has decided to do anything with matrix | 23:40 |
| clarkb | corvus: oh is it the weechat plugin causing that? | 23:40 |
| corvus | zuul's space would be like one channel for now, so limited use atm | 23:40 |
| mordred | clarkb: yeah. it's being "helpful" | 23:40 |
| mordred | corvus: can you make spaces with channels on other servers? | 23:40 |
| clarkb | I see the reactions with proper attribution. | 23:41 |
| corvus | mordred: that works with private spaces; i assume it would work with public too | 23:41 |
| fungi | clarkb: sounds like the weechat plugin for matrix thinks you want to _underline_ text | 23:41 |
| corvus | yep, it treats it as emphasis | 23:42 |
| corvus | same as element actually | 23:42 |
| fungi | and has lousy heuristics for telling that apart from "normal" use of underscores | 23:42 |
| corvus | foo_bar_baz | 23:42 |
| corvus | foobarbaz | 23:42 |
| Clark[m] | oh that will take getting used to. I hate when slack clients do similar. My favorite thing is when slack decides things are https urls | 23:42 |
| corvus | yep | 23:42 |
| Clark[m] | because the internet only exists in https | 23:42 |
| corvus | element has good heuristics, weechat bad | 23:42 |
| Clark[m] | Makes it impossible to talk about dns records in slack | 23:43 |
| corvus | * foo_bar_baz this was element | 23:43 |
| corvus | * foo_bar_baz this was weechat | 23:43 |
| corvus | * foobarbaz this was weechat | 23:43 |
| rm_work | yeah i just set up a bunch of spaces, seems it's really just an organization tool if you create "private" ones, works well, cross-homeserver/whatever | 23:43 |
| clarkb | interestingly I haven't received corvus' messages in matrix | 23:44 |
| rm_you[m] | O_o | 23:44 |
| corvus | clarkb: those were edits | 23:44 |
| rm_you[m] | oh I wonder how PMs work | 23:44 |
| clarkb | oh | 23:44 |
| corvus | rm_you: they work fine | 23:44 |
| corvus | rm_you: they're just new matrix rooms | 23:44 |
| rm_you[m] | yeah but I assume they don't go over OFTC | 23:44 |
| mordred | they do if one of the people is in oftc | 23:45 |
| clarkb | corvus: that is a weird bride behavior | 23:45 |
| mordred | rm_you: but if I chat with you, it'll be matrix | 23:45 |
| rm_work | right | 23:45 |
| rm_work | yeah i just sent a test message to corvus | 23:45 |
| rm_work | seems it's matrix-direct | 23:45 |
| rm_work | which is fine | 23:45 |
| rm_work | was just curious | 23:45 |
| mordred | yeah - matrix basically knows which of us are in via matrix and matrixes us via all the matrix | 23:46 |
| corvus | clarkb: yeah, on account of irc not supporting editing messages, they had to pick something. you learn to read it. ;) | 23:46 |
| corvus | but it's a good example of a "degraded" experience in irc that's better in native matrix | 23:47 |
| Clark[m] | corvus: I would've expected a bit more context, but ya now I know the " *" prefixed lines refer to edits against previous lines | 23:47 |
| rm_work | it makes sense, that's what I manually type anyway when I edit things | 23:47 |
| rm_work | *when I edit stuff | 23:47 |
| corvus | Clark: yeah, as long as folks don't wait too long to edit, it's easy enough to pick up. and yeah, as rm_work says, it's a semi-convention in irc anyway | 23:48 |
| rm_you[m] | so the difference here is ... | 23:48 |
| rm_you[m] | * so the difference here is ... what? | 23:48 |
| rm_work | ah k | 23:48 |
| clarkb | yup the other common convention is the ed substitution | 23:48 |
| rm_work | yeah that just automatically does it, easy enough | 23:48 |
| rm_work | s/easy enough/very easy!/ | 23:48 |
| Clark[m] | I wonder if that works in element | 23:48 |
| rm_you[m] | lol | 23:49 |
| mordred | weechat should TOTALLY display edits in ed format | 23:49 |
| Clark[m] | s/works in element/works in the element client/ | 23:49 |
| Clark[m] | nope | 23:49 |
| rm_you[m] | s/lol/rofl/ | 23:49 |
| mordred | I wish I could configure element to show me edits in ed format | 23:49 |
| rm_you[m] | can I just get a side-by-side diff of edits plzkthx :P | 23:49 |
| mordred | maybe I'll go learn enough of the codebase to add that option | 23:49 |
| corvus | mordred: you like writing js right? | 23:49 |
| rm_you[m] | ok this has been fun, thanks ya'll đ good end to my day | 23:50 |
| mordred | corvus: this might be a useless enough feature that I could nerdsnipe myself | 23:50 |
| mordred | corvus: it should be a sub-option of "experimental IRC mode" | 23:50 |
| rm_you[m] | time to ditch irccloud and set up all my channels here | 23:50 |
| mordred | rm_you: I've been using this for IRC for a bit over a year now | 23:50 |
| mordred | and have been quite pleased | 23:50 |
| corvus | rm_you: ++ before you go lemme dig up a link | 23:50 |
| rm_you[m] | yeah i have played with IRC bridges before and they sucked | 23:50 |
| rm_you[m] | this implementation is A++ | 23:50 |
| mordred | agree | 23:51 |
| rm_you[m] | actually I had an irc-bridge plugin running on my matrix homeserver several years ago and it was ... bad... memory leaks and crashes | 23:51 |
| rm_you[m] | had to uninstall | 23:51 |
| rm_you[m] | glad it's all fixed up | 23:51 |
| mordred | the global federated bridges are super handy | 23:51 |
| Clark[m] | I think matrix has come a long way over all in the past few years too | 23:51 |
| mordred | ++ | 23:51 |
| rm_you[m] | actually i wonder when I started running that server | 23:51 |
| rm_you[m] | I say "a couple years" but like... i think that's just me being old and losing track of time XD | 23:52 |
| Clark[m] | I should set one up for family chat just to troll my brother | 23:52 |
| Clark[m] | (he had to use matrix a few yaers ago and apparently the experience was not good at all) | 23:52 |
| corvus | rm_you: a lot of this you already know -- but near the end of this msg there's info about using matrix for both native and irc bridged channels -- http://lists.zuul-ci.org/pipermail/zuul-discuss/2021-May/001613.html | 23:52 |
| Clark[m] | but none of his complaints about performance seem to be an issue today | 23:52 |
| corvus | rm_you: there may be some useful info for you there, especially about the bridge commands | 23:53 |
| rm_work | yeah, will need to take-over my existing nick | 23:54 |
| Clark[m] | corvus: for weechat how does it handle things like images, reactions, and emoji? I guess the emoji are probably just displayed with whatever is in your font | 23:54 |
| rm_work | rm_you is for personal stuff, rm_work is for work :P | 23:54 |
| * corvus uploaded an image: (5KiB) < https://matrix.org/_matrix/media/r0/download/acmegating.com/fGieHSXpOLnNKIPmzKtXijxD/image.png > | 23:56 | |
| corvus | Clark: ^ | 23:56 |
| corvus | Clark: that's images; reactions i don't see | 23:56 |
| Clark[m] | Ok very similar to how it ends up across the bridge then | 23:56 |
| rm_you[m] | yeah reactions just don't show up âšī¸ | 23:57 |
| Clark[m] | a clickable link and no reactions | 23:57 |
| rm_work | well, my IRC client expands the link so, it's basically the same as element | 23:57 |
| Clark[m] | wee slack actually does the reactions in slack | 23:57 |
| rm_work | oh neat | 23:57 |
| Clark[m] | it gives you to them in text form with a counter that updates. No attribution though | 23:57 |
| corvus | i guess there's no reason weechat-matrix couldn't be extended to do that | 23:58 |
| corvus | it's python | 23:58 |
| Clark[m] | ya I imagine a similar thing to what wee slack does is possible. Not perfect but it at least gives you some indication | 23:58 |
| *** rm_you[m] is now known as rm_you | 23:58 | |
| *** rm_work is now known as rm_work| | 23:59 | |
| *** rm_you is now known as rm_work | 23:59 | |
| rm_work | uhh ok... takeover complete? :D | 23:59 |
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