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| openstackgerrit | Merged openstack/ara master: Remove GIT_ANSIBLE_DEVEL token from tox.ini https://review.openstack.org/486441 | 02:38 |
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| openstackgerrit | Li Yuankui proposed openstack/ara master: Add context path conf. https://review.openstack.org/484378 | 10:37 |
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| dmsimard | _dev, hughsaunders, andymccr: Asking you a question as you've contributed patches to ARA which are non-trivial (copyrightable) -- how much of an issue would it be for your (or your employers) to flip ARA from Apache 2.0 to full GPLv3 ? | 15:04 |
| dmsimard | I am considering switching ARA to full GPLv3 to avoid needless headaches with dual-licensing with Apache 2.0 (being careful with imports from ansible, and even within ARA, etc.) | 15:05 |
| dmsimard | Ansible is GPLv3 (hence the switch) | 15:05 |
| dmsimard | For reference, Apache 2.0 https://choosealicense.com/licenses/apache-2.0/ and GPLv3: https://choosealicense.com/licenses/gpl-3.0/ | 15:07 |
| hughsaunders | Ansible being GPL is a pain. | 15:07 |
| dmsimard | hughsaunders: agreed, and yet here we are | 15:08 |
| andymccr | dmsimard: i know we had some concerns around OpenStack licensing vs GPLv3 for Ansible etc. https://governance.openstack.org/tc/reference/licensing.html | 15:08 |
| andymccr | dmsimard: i would say since we already use ansible, which uses GPL, i cant see us having a specific issue with ARA switching to that. | 15:09 |
| dmsimard | andymccr: right, from an end user perspective -- I don't see this being too much of an issue | 15:09 |
| dmsimard | andymccr: as contributors, however, it's different | 15:09 |
| dmsimard | RAX might have something to say about it for example, I don't know if they sign away your rights and stuff | 15:10 |
| andymccr | dmsimard: agreed, we could double check although in general most of us have ansible commits which is also the same deal really. | 15:10 |
| dmsimard | If I decide to go through with this, I'd put up a review for the change and have contributors that have contributed something non-trivial to weigh in | 15:11 |
| dmsimard | I would rather do this before there are too many contributors and it becomes impossible to switch afterwards | 15:11 |
| dmsimard | (Discussed this with Zuul folks, where switching license is near impossible at this point) | 15:12 |
| hughsaunders | I think we should clean room ansible as apache, oh and use jinja for the logic. On a serious note, I agree with andymccr we have contributions to GPL projects so it shouldn't be a problem. I personally don't have a problem with relicensing. | 15:12 |
| dmsimard | okay, I'll ping you if we're moving forward with this -- still have some things I need to ask about and discuss first | 15:15 |
| * dmsimard sucks at licenses | 15:15 | |
| hughsaunders | The openstack licensing page almost implies that big tent projects must be ASLv2. They leave some room with "should generally". There is also an exception for OpenStack Infrastructure, but that is ill defined, it may or may not cover ARA. | 15:16 |
| dmsimard | hughsaunders: Right, ARA is not an OpenStack deliverable and is not governed by the OpenStack foundation (or the technical committee) but it's actually one of the things I want to clarify before moving forward.. like, would it mean that ARA would be kicked out as an "OpenStack hosted project" for example | 15:17 |
| dmsimard | hughsaunders: it's pretty clear cut that official shipped projects must be ASLv2 | 15:17 |
| hughsaunders | yeah | 15:17 |
| dmsimard | hughsaunders: that govenance doc does say the following | 15:28 |
| dmsimard | Projects run as part of the OpenStack Infrastructure (in order to produce OpenStack software) may be licensed under any OSI-approved license. | 15:28 |
| dmsimard | This includes tools that are run with or on OpenStack projects only during validation or testing phases of development (e.g., a source code linter). | 15:28 |
| dmsimard | So I guess ARA would land in that category of software | 15:28 |
| dmsimard | But maybe it would become an issue if, say, OSA would like to ship with an implementation of ARA for production use or something | 15:29 |
| hughsaunders | dmsimard: that implies that ARA itself is not an openstack project? | 15:29 |
| evrardjp | licensing and relicensing are always a mess | 15:29 |
| dmsimard | hughsaunders: it's not really an openstack project, it's kind of like a stackforge project | 15:29 |
| hughsaunders | dmsimard: Yeah, ARA going GPL does propagate the GPL problem. | 15:30 |
| dmsimard | hughsaunders: but I mean you're shipping ansible software so... | 15:30 |
| dmsimard | ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ | 15:30 |
| hughsaunders | Ballmer was right -_- | 15:30 |
| dmsimard | developers developers developers ? | 15:30 |
| evrardjp | :) | 15:30 |
| evrardjp | dmsimard: we are not developing ansible itself | 15:31 |
| dmsimard | evrardjp: right, but you're shipping stuff that is GPL, yes? | 15:31 |
| evrardjp | usage of ansible can be done without licensing to gpl | 15:31 |
| dmsimard | evrardjp: modules, callbacks, whatnot | 15:31 |
| hughsaunders | dmsimard: about the infectious nature of the GPL. | 15:32 |
| evrardjp | shuuuuuuut | 15:32 |
| evrardjp | :) | 15:32 |
| evrardjp | dmsimard: more seriously, lookups aren't GPLed because they aren't linked direclty. | 15:32 |
| evrardjp | for the rest, I don't really know, but I know it was a very thin line | 15:33 |
| dmsimard | evrardjp: oh, I know about linking and not linking | 15:33 |
| evrardjp | what did the foundaiton say? | 15:33 |
| evrardjp | or advice in your case? | 15:34 |
| dmsimard | evrardjp: but I mean, like, https://github.com/openstack/openstack-ansible-plugins/blob/master/action/_v2_config_template.py is gpl and it's shipped as part of OSA, right ? | 15:34 |
| dmsimard | evrardjp: haven't formally asked the foundation about it yet, just mostly discussed with zuul which has the same challenge of dealing with dual licensing | 15:35 |
| dmsimard | Had various informal discussions with red hat legal too (guy who happened to co-author gplv3 works at red hat, what do you know) | 15:36 |
| evrardjp | I am not a lawyer, and I am worse than John Snow. I think someone else should answer these questions :) | 15:36 |
| evrardjp | oh you probably have more access to proper source of info then :D | 15:37 |
| dmsimard | bah, yes and no, he didn't exactly make things easier | 15:37 |
| evrardjp | and ansible being redhat, I think it would be sad if you can't get anything done on that matter. No pressure :D | 15:37 |
| evrardjp | :/ | 15:37 |
| dmsimard | something along the lines of, it might be easier to just license everything gplv3 lol | 15:37 |
| dmsimard | otherwise it's ambiguous to tell what is the /effective/ license | 15:38 |
| evrardjp | I think we can kiss the foundation's help goodbye if that's the case | 15:39 |
| dmsimard | I believe a file that imports Ansible as a library can be under the | 15:41 |
| dmsimard | Apache License. There may be a few reasons to use GPL instead, | 15:41 |
| dmsimard | though: | 15:41 |
| dmsimard | * You might still have debates over whether GPLv3 is the 'effective license' | 15:41 |
| dmsimard | and what the implications of that are; actually using GPLv3 avoids | 15:41 |
| dmsimard | that issue :) | 15:41 |
| evrardjp | for config template, we also had another idea: If the plugins section is not valid with our openstack licensing, we could still have it done somewhere else (and licensed appropriately), and simply use it, which would respect Apache licensing. | 15:44 |
| evrardjp | sadly, ara doesn't have the same luxury. | 15:44 |
| evrardjp | it makes sense to me to ship ara as gpl3, but don't trust me 100% on it. | 15:44 |
| dmsimard | evrardjp: oh, yeah, I've actually read about that somewhere | 15:44 |
| dmsimard | evrardjp: I think it was ttx who said you could send that off to a repo somewhere, ship it on pypi and consume it | 15:45 |
| evrardjp | yeah usage and contributions are two very different topics | 15:45 |
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| dmsimard | evrardjp, hughsaunders: looks like no issue with ARA staying part of /openstack without ASLv2 http://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/legal-discuss/2017-July/000474.html | 17:12 |
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| openstackgerrit | Merged openstack/ara master: Bump minimum version of Ansible to 2.2.0.0 https://review.openstack.org/486361 | 18:46 |
| openstackgerrit | David Moreau Simard proposed openstack/ara master: Re-license ARA from ASLv2 to GPLv3 https://review.openstack.org/486733 | 19:23 |
| _dev | dmsimard: Do you need me to act on the gerrit merge at all? | 19:27 |
| _dev | I'm fine with GPLv3, since its the same as Ansible | 19:27 |
| dmsimard | _dev: aye, need a +1 if you (and/or your employer) are okay with it,. | 19:27 |
| _dev | Sure, I don't think my employer will care, but I'll ask. | 19:28 |
| _dev | Better safe than sorry. | 19:28 |
| openstackgerrit | David Moreau Simard proposed openstack/ara master: Re-license ARA from ASLv2 to GPLv3 https://review.openstack.org/486733 | 19:30 |
| dmsimard | _dev: thanks ! | 19:30 |
| dmsimard | _dev: typically apache 2.0 is more "free" than gplv3 -- one of the things from gpl v3 is that you need to redistribute changes that would have otherwise been proprietary as far as I understand | 19:31 |
| _dev | cool, +1 for me | 19:38 |
| _dev | i prefer MIT/BSD, but w/e | 19:38 |
| _dev | OSS is OSS | 19:38 |
| dmsimard | _dev: I suck at licenses :) | 19:42 |
| dmsimard | _dev: This is mostly because Ansible is gplv3 and we're importing bits from it. | 19:42 |
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